Hip Lift

[nicklaszlo]

What do skaters do, if anything, to improve hip lift?

I can't do good toe-pointed inside swing rolls because my hip doesn't lift high enough.

Google led me to exercises where people lie on their back and lift their hips.

[fsk8r]

What do skaters do, if anything, to improve hip lift?

I can't do good toe-pointed inside swing rolls because my hip doesn't lift high enough.

Google led me to exercises where people lie on their back and lift their hips.

Do you turn your foot out when you bring it through in front? Turning out tends to drop the hip. One of the style of teaching ice dance is to not turn your foot out on inside edges so you prevent your hips from dropping. You can play around in front of a mirror to see the difference turning the foot out can have on your hip position.

[Isk8NYC]

Re: "turning out the foot causes the hip to drop." 

I've never heard of a dance coach saying that to a student - typically they want MORE turnout and pointing on edges and turns.

In freeskating, foot turnout is important for edges and spin positions because it enables the skater to lift and control the free leg.  Why wouldn't it be the same in ice dancing?

(You've made similar statements about spirals, so I'm wondering if we're using the same terms to mean the opposite things?)

[fsk8r]

In freeskating, foot turnout is important for edges and spin positions because it enables the skater to lift and control the free leg.  Do you have a source for your assertion that "turning out the foot causes the hip to drop."  I've never heard a dance coach say that to a student - typically they want MORE turnout and pointing on edges and turns.

It's only on inside edges, outside edges they want as much turnout as possible.
and pointing and extension on all edges is a prerequisite.
But if you just stretch your leg in front of you (standing in front of a mirror) and turn your foot out the hip naturally lowers slightly as it opens out which is undesirable on inside edges because it prevents you keeping your weight over the skate. If you watch the top dancers when they're doing compulsory dances a lot of them these days don't turn out on inside edges but they still stretch, extend and point.

[AgnesNitt]

I am not a physical trainer. I am just someone who has some experience in being trained.

The muscles that lift your hips while you are standing are called the obliques.


Here are a number of exercises to strengthen your obliques. You can pick one and do it for a couple of weeks, then do another. You don't need to do all of them. It will take time. The obliques aren't that big.

Or if you don't want to go to that much trouble, stand in tendu postion , and lift your hip of the extended leg by crunching your obliques 30 times. Keep your upper body vertical. Do this 30 times. Go slow for each lift: it should be one count up, one count down Do this every day till you feel improvement. If you don't feel it's working, move on to something else.
Tendu position:

[nicklaszlo]

Could this be a matter of flexibility, rather than strength?  Oblique crunches seem pretty easy, they just don't go very far.

[Nate]

IRT hip lift.  A skater should be trainied so that they can isolate the hip and opening or turning out the hip does not cause it to drop.  If they don't learn to do that, then they run in to trouble early on because it will be almost impossible for them to have an decent exit edge on outside 3 turns if they cannot isolate the hip.

That doesn't speak to the edges, crossovers, salchow/flip jumps, spins, and other elements that will suffer noticeably until they are able to control the hip dropping.

Yes, by default we tend to drop our hips when we open them or turn out, but skating is a sport and like most sports we have to overcome things that we tend to do by default/naturally to get the desired result.

[nicklaszlo]

But my problem isn't dropping the hip, it is that is was never that high in the first place.

[jjane45]

For the record, my hips are terribly low a lot of times especially during spins, and your coach makes students warm up with hip lifts. I like to do them with legs extended behind, then bring forward free foot in front of skating knee, and finally easing into scratch spin position.

[Nate]

But my problem isn't dropping the hip, it is that is was never that high in the first place.

I wasn't responding to you specifically.  Just responding in general based on what I read in the thread.

And "Neutral Hips" can be bad in free skating.  For example, in jumping "level hips" are bad bad bad.

It's not good enough to just say it isn't dropping, so it must be fine.  You often have to consciously raise the free hip up.  Well, subconsciously since it should pretty much be muscle memory after a few months of skating

[nicklaszlo]

You often have to consciously raise the free hip up.

Assuming that was in response to me, what I'm trying to say is that when I consciously raise my free hip, no matter what else I am doing, it does not seem to get very high.

[Nate]

Assuming that was in response to me, what I'm trying to say is that when I consciously raise my free hip, no matter what else I am doing, it does not seem to get very high.

Lol.  How high are you expecting it to go?

A couple/few inches is fine for most people.

It may be a flexibility is keeping it from going higher, but I'm not really sure what your definition of high actually is, because it won't move all that much.

The purpose of getting the hip up is to ensure that your weight is over the right side.  If it "doesn't get that high," but is accomplishing that goal, then I don't think I'd worry that much about it.

Maybe some hip excercises would help a bit, but I'm still a bit confused by the "doesn't go that high" comment.  I mean, I can make mine go very high but it would look terrible and it would throw me way off to the other side.  It's more about makign sure your weight is distributed correctly (and body aligned correctly) than how high it actually is.  Lifting the hip is just the way we/skaters get the desired results.

[MimiG]

I actually wouldn't lift the free hip on an inside edge so much as keep the hips square to the axis of the body (which is leaning into the edge, so the free hip would be slightly lower, but not dropped... does that make sense?) For me, "lifting the free hip" is more of a "don't drop the free hip" reminder on inside edges.

It could be that your free hip isn't pressed forward enough (square to the edge) or that you need to "stand taller" through your upper body. Try taking a deep breath first (and hold the position when you breathe out again) and see if it helps. And resist the temptation to watch your feet - keep your head up! (Trust me, there's no money on the ice, I've already checked...)

And, after years of ice dance, I've never heard of not turning out on inside edges...??

[Query]

I practice balancing on foot off the ice, in standing and shoot the duck positions (maybe I should practice in between too...) and observe how I shift my body to do so. I think most people use a variety of techniques to place their center of gravity over their foot, and what I have to do on the ice is fairly similar - though during spins and some other dynamic balance moves, your center may be substantially offset from the base of support, in part because of the skating standard that most spins should progress around a small circle while on edge, and in part because the physics of balance changes while spinning.

But different coaches use hips in different ways. Some stick the hip slightly to the outside, some slightly to the inside, and some work hard not to let the hip line of the standing leg be visible at all. Many people seem to find some way to place the standing leg slightly outside the center of support, and rotate their pelvis upwards from the standing hip joint as well.

BTW, I've been told in the past that the leg should be parallel to the other leg as it passes it, but should rotate outwards at the leg/hip joint when behind and in front of the body. Some coaches have allowed some of the rotation to occur at the base of the spine or within the spine, but not all. One coach spent a lot of time having students work on practicing off ice to do many types of rotation just using the leg/hip joint. It's really hard, and takes a lot of practice, and I sometimes don't realize I am moving something else.

Many ice dance coaches advocate using what rotation they can about the ankle, and some a little rotation about the knee as well. Some are more worried you will be injured by too much such rotation.

Standing on one foot off-ice for an extended time also helps me strengthen the muscles needed to hold these positions. Perhaps, unlike me, you are too fit to need strengthening (but strength helps you fight flexibility limits too), but merely need to concentrate on doing the right thing.

Maybe none of this applies to you. Ask your coach!