changing coaches

emma · January 15, 2011, 07:20:54 PM

How do you know when it is time to change coaches. Also is there any way to change so you don't hurt their feelings. Lately I feel like my coach spends half my lesson talking to me but very little time coaching me. He also spends time talking to other coaches during my lesson time. My Dad is getting really mad about all the talking and so little coaching. What should I do?

JHarer · January 15, 2011, 09:24:28 PM

Depending on who pays for your lessons (you or dad?), one of you needs to talk to your coach. Let him know what you are expecting from your lesson and maybe reaffirm your skating goals with him. If the problems continue after you have talked with the coach, then it is time to look for another coach. I wouldn't worry about hurting the coach's feelings, he is a professional and should understand your reasons for switching coaches.

jjane45 · January 15, 2011, 11:41:23 PM

Quote from: emma on January 15, 2011, 07:20:54 PM
Lately I feel like my coach spends half my lesson talking to me but very little time coaching me. He also spends time talking to other coaches during my lesson time.

When you coach talk to you instead of teach, what does he talk about? Technique or personal? Sorry if I am asking the obvious, one of my favorite group lesson coach likes to explain technique in detail, and even though I enjoy it I've heard complaints too.

Your coach should not talk to others during your lesson time beyond a few words.

I too wonder what is the most tactful way to express your concern without being confrontational.

FigureSpins · January 16, 2011, 08:52:34 AM

I guess you could tell the coach that your dad wants to see you moving more during lessons. That's a common complaint from group lesson parents - that the skaters aren't moving much. Your dad could deliver the message so that you don't have to be the bad guy - have Dad tell the coach that he's concerned that you're practicing on your own and (dad) can't tell if it's right or not; would the coach please monitor more technique during the lessons? Something diplomatic like that (I'm still a little sleepy, sorry) that will get your lessons back on track.

As for changing coaches, there is a polite and businesslike method that skating organizations recommend. It works without creating drama or hard feelings. Whatever you decide, do NOT bad-mouth the coach at the rink or ask other coaches about lessons. Those are the main ingredients for creating drama and hard feelings.

USFSA Article on Changing Coaches:
http://www.usfsa.org/Shell.asp?cat=2&id=227&sid=30299

In my experience, most people who approach me about changing coaches don't make the change, or the skaters just stop skating entirely. So, it's not a decision to be taken lightly unless you effect the change properly.

techskater · January 16, 2011, 10:05:09 AM

As most have said, politely explain to the coach what he/she is doing that is causing your issues (too much talking, on the phone, etc) and give him/her the chance to fix it (if possible). If that doesn't work, politely tell the coach that you are looking for a change and that the coach/student relationship will end on XX date. THEN you can approach another coach for lessons. The other option is to approach your coach and tell him/her you want to add to your coaching team and approach the second coach and then after you settle in, professionally drop the first coach.

It's a tough thing to do the first time...good luck

FigureSpins · January 16, 2011, 12:12:37 PM

QuoteThe other option is to approach your coach and tell him/her you want to add to your coaching team and approach the second coach and then after you settle in, professionally drop the first coach.

This is a really good idea and a nice way to transition, if you're honest with both coaches about eventually making a switch.

If you take a break from skating or lessons, let your coach know. Don't make any false promises like "Maybe in the Spring."

Also, let them know before you return so that they aren't caught off-guard by your taking lessons with someone else. I've witnessed a few scenes caused by one coach accusing the other of "poaching" a student - it could have been avoided if the parents had just been honest with the original coach.

You do NOT have to return to skating and lessons with your original coach, but I would suggest informing him/her that you're going to return to skating, and let him/her know that you will be trying another coach/coaches, even if you haven't made arrangements. Voice mail or email will suffice. This way, s/he isn't surprised to see you or expecting to pick up where you left off. They also won't save you a time slot, which is often a complaint when skaters don't return as expected.

Too many people don't come back to skating because they're afraid of a confrontation with their old coach. Don't be afraid - be classy and in charge. Set the tone.

techskater · January 17, 2011, 06:51:22 PM

One reason I suggest the add and then drop is because then you can determine if the new coach is a good fit before you drop your current coach instead of making a rash decision and then looking like a coach hopper.

icefrog · January 17, 2011, 08:57:59 PM

But what happens if the coach doesn't agree with the new coaches technique and advises against hiring the second coach bc they feel it will ruin what they taught you? Its just a thought.

fsk8r · January 18, 2011, 03:20:43 AM

Quote from: techskater on January 17, 2011, 06:51:22 PM
One reason I suggest the add and then drop is because then you can determine if the new coach is a good fit before you drop your current coach instead of making a rash decision and then looking like a coach hopper.

It's also a good idea as it keeps the original coach on their toes and it might cause a change in the relationship for the positive. It lets the coach know you're serious about your skating (serious at whatever level you might want to be taking it - I don't mean working towards the Olympics).

FigureSpins · January 18, 2011, 04:52:52 AM

The bait-and-switch method of adding a second coach could also give the old coach a reason to accept new students to fill your slot. The door swings both ways when you start using intimidation as a motivational technique and it usually backfires. Really bad if the new coach doesn't have the time available, or says so, so as not to get involved with the coach-hopping. Coaches aren't stupid, they're business people.

I had a skater take a lesson with a different coach during the time slot I had saved for her, saying that she would take her lesson with me on another day instead. I wasn't going to wait around for her to update her schedule - I had two other students interested in the time slot she dropped with me, so I filled the slot. Turned out my other available times didn't work out for her schedule. (Not sure if this was intentional, but it was what it was.) Pretty bad when the second (now only) coach decided to drop that day from his/her teaching schedule. The student actually expected me to tell the other student that she couldn't have that lesson slot anymore. All the other coaches were full and she didn't want to come on a different day, so she spent the season practicing without any lessons.

If you want to change coaches, do it. I don't have a problem with a transition/tryout period, but being deceptive isn't really the way to go about it and yes, you can get a "coach hopper" reputation, although that's more common among young skaters with skating parents.

Better to act like an adult and discuss your concerns and plans.

QuoteBut what happens if the coach doesn't agree with the new coaches technique and advises against hiring the second coach bc they feel it will ruin what they taught you? Its just a thought.

An entirely likely situation.

That's why coaches often "team teach" or "team coach" so that they have 2-3 other coaches with similar styles of teaching and technique. This way, the skater doesn't get mixed messages from lesson to lesson. If you choose someone else, and the primary coach expresses that concern, you should seriously consider your choice.

Take jumps: one coach at our rink teaches beautiful jumps in the same "style" that I do, so I have no qualms about having her jump-coach my skaters. I know that the skater won't have to deal with two different techniques. Another coach whose jump style is radically different would mean re-learning existing skills using the different style/method.

Which style do you use? Do you switch from lesson to lesson? Does the skater choose which method to use? It's a dilemma.

fsk8r · January 18, 2011, 05:03:03 AM

Quote from: FigureSpins on January 18, 2011, 04:52:52 AM
The bait-and-switch method of adding a second coach could also give the old coach a reason to accept new students to fill your slot. The door swings both ways when you start using intimidation as a motivational technique and it usually backfires. Really bad if the new coach doesn't have the time available, or says so, so as not to get involved with the coach-hopping. Coaches aren't stupid, they're business people.

I had a skater take a lesson with a different coach during the time slot I had saved for her, saying that she would take her lesson with me on another day instead. I wasn't going to wait around for her to update her schedule - I had two other students interested in the time slot she dropped with me, so I filled the slot. Turned out my other available times didn't work out for her schedule. (Not sure if this was intentional, but it was what it was.) Pretty bad when the second (now only) coach decided to drop that day from his/her teaching schedule. The student actually expected me to tell the other student that she couldn't have that lesson slot anymore. All the other coaches were full and she didn't want to come on a different day, so she spent the season practicing without any lessons.

If you want to change coaches, do it. I don't have a problem with a transition/tryout period, but being deceptive isn't really the way to go about it and yes, you can get a "coach hopper" reputation, although that's more common among young skaters with skating parents.

Better to act like an adult and discuss your concerns and plans.

Personally I think your skater was silly in that situation. If she's taking on a new coach, the original coaches time slots are already blanked out from what's available on her schedule. As skaters we expect our coaches to be professional about our slots and not mess us around, out of respect we should do the same, regardless of whether the skater is looking to switch coaches or not. There's also a reliability reputation that a skater carries with them.

FigureSpins · January 18, 2011, 05:12:15 AM

In fairness, it was at a seasonal club that only had two freestyles / week. The other coach had one student taking a 15-minute lesson, so he had time available, but later decided it wasn't worth it for only 45 minutes, given the commuting cost.

At that club, the skaters would change coaches at will and there wasn't the sense of "committment" that most rinks and clubs have, with courteous coaching changes. I never figured out if she was just silly or trying to be sly. She didn't return the following season, so I never found out what happened to her, nor did I ever ask the other coach what the original game plan was for that little drama.

techskater · January 18, 2011, 06:43:58 PM

Sometimes it's important to have multiple perspectives, though. I currently picked both of my own coaches and they do not team teach. They have different ways to teach different things but it all melds together and is making me a better skater. I've been with my "girl" coach a long time and I told her that I would be adding "boy" coach to the mix. I did not change my scheduled lesson times with her in order to do this or cut back, it was additional and I had (and still have) no intention of dropping either, even if a few things are opposite in method. I work on both and the one that works the best is the one I go with.

The nice thing about adding the second coach before dropping the first one is that you can see whether it's going to work out coach-student relationship wise before you proceed forward.

FigureSpins · January 18, 2011, 08:08:54 PM

Quote from: fsk8r on January 18, 2011, 03:20:43 AM
It's also a good idea as it keeps the original coach on their toes and it might cause a change in the relationship for the positive. It lets the coach know you're serious about your skating (serious at whatever level you might want to be taking it - I don't mean working towards the Olympics).

Quote from: techskater on January 17, 2011, 06:51:22 PM
One reason I suggest the add and then drop is because then you can determine if the new coach is a good fit before you drop your current coach instead of making a rash decision and then looking like a coach hopper.

Quote from: techskater on January 18, 2011, 06:43:58 PM
Sometimes it's important to have multiple perspectives, though. I currently picked both of my own coaches and they do not team teach. They have different ways to teach different things but it all melds together and is making me a better skater. I've been with my "girl" coach a long time and I told her that I would be adding "boy" coach to the mix. I did not change my scheduled lesson times with her in order to do this or cut back, it was additional and I had (and still have) no intention of dropping either, even if a few things are opposite in method. I work on both and the one that works the best is the one I go with.

The nice thing about adding the second coach before dropping the first one is that you can see whether it's going to work out coach-student relationship wise before you proceed forward.

Frankly, the more you emphasize this, the more spineless your method seems. Either you want to change coaches or you don't. Being sneaky about it is just...well, sneaky. Truthfully, you've not changed coaches, so you don't know what happens after someone switches with this method you're so proudly touting.

I've witnessed the arguments and accusations that can result from a student/parent using bait-and-switch. I've been on the board of clubs where officers had to mediate to keep peace between pros who felt used and deceived. I've also seen the skaters who were banned for causing too much drama by coach-hopping and instigating arguments in public.

It's really not adult or professional in my opinion. You're also being deceptive about how successful this can be, given that you've never done it yourself. I would hope that readers would realize that coaches are professionals who shouldn't be treated like pawns and played against each other that way that you and fsk8r have proposed.

Unless we're talking about coaches under 18, they're adults who shouldn't be called "boy coach" and "girl coach" unless they enjoy baby talk.

icefrog · January 18, 2011, 09:18:02 PM

I have to really agree with FigureSpins on this one. Maybe I have a different perspective since I skate at a team taught rink There are 5 coaches that work together so I know I could add anyone and my main coach would be perfectly fine with it. Except if I added coach X to my personal coaching "team" of coach C and R and then dropped coach C (my "main" coach) completely after adding coach X for some "extra work with spins" or something then using him/her as my new main I don't think anyone would be pleased. It would not be a nice surprise.

Its really not fair to any of the coaches involved and I'm thinking it would get more complicated at rinks where coaches tend coach totally alone.

There was a Xanboni post about a similar situation

http://xan-boni.blogspot.com/2010/06/your-coach-is-your-coach.html

AgnesNitt · January 18, 2011, 09:30:06 PM

I hesitate to butt into this long and very useful discussion, but I think what has gotten lost is that the OP is not an adult. I am neither a coach or a parent, but it strikes me as awkward to put the child in the negotiating position. The father who is paying the bills is the one who needs the advice, or the advice to the OP needs to be couched in terms of "You need to discuss with your father xxxx. He will then open up discussions with your coach."

As far as advice to the OP, I wonder if the coach is trying to 'fire' the student. Maybe the student isn't working hard enough, or not showing the coach enough progress, or the coach has opportunities to add another more gifted skater. Talking to other coaches, and not paying attention to the student during the lesson is a passive aggressive way to get someone to move on, but not everyone has the courage to break the relationship.

Teresa · January 18, 2011, 11:03:25 PM

A skater should treat their coach with the same respect they would want.

If a skater is not happy with an aspect of their coaching/student relationship they should try talking to their coach. Coach and student needs the opportunity to try and improve things. A good coach/student relationship takes two. You should be able to talk to your coach about things your not happy about.They need the opportunity to listen. If the skater is too young to talk to the coach alone the parent should assist. Maybe, in this case, the parent and child can write their thoughts down to keep their discussion focused. Meet in person but bring the notes.

If the relationship can't be worked out be honest. Sneaking off to a new coach is not cool. Be honest to the old, be honest to the new and try to remember that it's a difficult situtation for all. Coach and skater have feelings! Handle the situation with respect! Rink gossip happens in these situations. Don't participate!

FigureSpins · January 19, 2011, 08:54:51 AM

Quote from: icefrog on January 18, 2011, 09:18:02 PM
There was a Xanboni post about a similar situation
http://xan-boni.blogspot.com/2010/06/your-coach-is-your-coach.html

EEEK! That's a great example of what not to do and why you shouldn't do it!
Imagine how awkward the situation was in finding out about the switch by seeing the skater on the ice with someone else. I agree with one of the comments: the "new" coach should have started a dialogue with the "old" coach before arranging anything or accepting the student.

Transitions shouldn't be earth-shattering. The blogger states clearly that she would have wished the skater well with no hard feelings. Now, there are hard feelings because of others' foolishness. Here's how it should have gone:

Quote from: better version
Mom: We want Betsy to start testing and we're going to switch coaches, probably to Coach A.
Xan: Okay, no problem. We're up to date and I have several other skaters who wanted that time slot.

Later...
Xan: Coach A, Betsy's mother will be calling you about scheduling some lessons and testing.
Coach A: Okay. I have a few slots open, but I'll be going out of town, so we'll have to work that out. Any issues or outstanding bills?
Xan: No, nothing outstanding. They had originally said they didn't want to test, but they've changed their minds.
I can cover the lesson while you're out of town if I still have the slot open, otherwise you'll have to get someone else.
Coach A: We're good then.
Xan: Yes.

Done. No drama, no hurt feelings, and Betsy gets her lessons and there is peace at the rink.
Much better than bait-and-switch, lol.

Agnes, I did say that the dad should discuss the situation with the OP, but there's no reason why a student can't give a heads up in advance. I'm a little curious about what the OP DOES when the coach starts yakking to her or others. Maybe this is the coach's "style" to explain and describe, which is acceptable, but the skater needs to listen and try to do what is expected.

Assuming Emma (the OP) meets the age cutoff for this board, she's at least 16, and therefore should be capable of discussing the situation with her dad and the coach. Since dad's footing the bill, I agree that he should intervene, but if Emma's 21, she's entitled to an opinion.

OT: I'm all for kids blaming the parents when they don't feel comfortable saying something. The "My dad ..." preface also works for turning down peers who want to do something wrong, lol.

Sk8tmum · January 19, 2011, 11:52:04 AM

Quote from: Teresa on January 18, 2011, 11:03:25 PM
AIf the relationship can't be worked out be honest. Sneaking off to a new coach is not cool. Be honest to the old, be honest to the new and try to remember that it's a difficult situtation for all. Coach and skater have feelings! Handle the situation with respect! Rink gossip happens in these situations. Don't participate!

Skate Canada has rules regarding this; the new coach cannot take on a student unless the old coach confirms that all bills are paid and they have been notified. There are other restrictions as well in terms of soliciting students from other coaches which are quite strict.

FigureSpins · January 19, 2011, 12:04:12 PM

Most skating clubs and the PSA have the same/similar rules, but there's no one to enforce them other than the coaches themselves. Unless someone raises their voice (as Xan did) or files a complaint with the Club/USFSA/ISI or PSA, nothing will happen to the new coach if they don't follow the guidelines.

I have a great role model who really follows the PSA guidelines to the letter, so I use the tactics she demonstrates. Haven't had a problem, knock wood.

My only ethics issue is that other coaches' skater-parents want to be on my e-distribution lists because my parents always know what's going on in advance. I make an effort to keep myself informed and a quick email now and then keeps everyone in the loop so I don't have to remember "Did I tell () about this yet?"

I feel uncomfortable about having non-students receiving my emails. It's one thing when the rink closes unexpectedly, of course I send out a blanket message. But, anything about lessons, programs, special clinics - just to my students. Don't need to get a soliciting accusation and it's truly the responsibility of the club, skating director and the other students' coaches to keep them informed about those things.

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changing coaches