Dick Button Op Ed in Newsweek "What went wrong in Figure Skating"

[Neverdull44]

http://www.newsweek.com/opinion-what-went-wrong-figure-skating-238955

Mr. Button's contention is that the ISU is run by speed skaters, and the figure skaters are the ignored, cheated, and exploited ones for decades.  Therefore, figure skating should split from ISU. 

My question is, why is figure skating even part of ISU if its focus is really speed skating that exploits figure skating?  Like a reverse acquisition, where the smaller/weaker company buys the larger/stronger company and keeps it in subjection, this doesn't make any sense.  Why can't figure skaters faction away from the ISU?  Does it have to do with the Olympics?  Would the Olympic Committee have to then approve the new international figure skating union?  Starting a non-profit is simple, usually just a few thousand dollars.  Is it possible to start a new, International Figure Skating Union, ask national figure skating organizations to join, and then demand the Olympic Committee to accept?  The IFSU holds its own competitions with accountability, and have a comprehensive system of marketing and educating the public on the sport . . . this might work.  Problem, as Dick Button illustrated, some in figure skating have their own, corrupted agenda.

p.s. I would love to meet Dick Button one day.  I wish he'd come to Estero, Florida to visit our rink.  Otherwise, I'll have to just compete at Adult Nationals to meet him!

[AgnesNitt]

Anyone remember the World Skating Federation? Anyone? Anyone?

Thought not.

[Neverdull44]

Thanks for pointing out the failed World Skating.   If there is ever a group of 'never fail', 'get up if you fall down', 'do it over', tenacious and persistent group of people, it's figure skaters.  Perhaps a second try, and something like it will rise again?

[AgnesNitt]

The IOC would have to withdraw its sanction from the ISU for figure skating fo any alternate program to have a chance of succeeding. IOC won't do that. So Dick's just blustering.

[Loops]

Interesting.  Hypothetically speaking- lets say we did resurrect World Skating, and the IOC refused to shift the sanction for figure skating from the ISU.

What would happen if Figure skaters boycotted the Olympics?

Would anyone notice, or care?  Or would the Olympics loose a decent enough chunk of money to get the IOC's attention?

I'm wondering- does anyone know who controls what gets shown on Prime time?  There WAS an inordinate amount of speed skating (imho) shown on the French prime time, and almost zero Figure Skating.  But then again, there was also an inordinate amount of that sport where you ski, lie down to shoot at a target and then repeat.  I just assumed that the French had more competitors in those events.  Who controls TV access to Worlds? Is that NBC/ABC/whomever's choice, or is that controlled by the ISU?

[FigureSpins]

Anyone remember the World Skating Federation? Anyone? Anyone?

Thought not.

I remember WSF and the slap-down sanctions and threats.
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/features/jackson_pfenning.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/26/sports/figure-skating-splinter-group-announces-plan-to-give-skating-new-leadership.html

Mr. Button's position is admirable, but he's not in a position to lead the charge.  It would take someone more connected.  (Kwan, perhaps?)

[Nate]

Thanks for pointing out the failed World Skating.   If there is ever a group of 'never fail', 'get up if you fall down', 'do it over', tenacious and persistent group of people, it's figure skaters.  Perhaps a second try, and something like it will rise again?

No, because the people involved with the WSF used as pretty obvious examples for anyone who is thinking about doing something like that.  Their lives, as far as skating is concerned, were destroyed by the ISU.

It will be a very long time until we see something directly involved and active in skating attempt to do that, especially a whole group of them.

I think the Atheletes have the most power here.  They're the ones who make the sport what it is.  If the atheletes were to boycott an Olympics then I think the IOC would have no choice but to react to it.  If they were to do the same for World Championships, etc. then the ISU would be on clear notice.

But that won't happen, cause people and federations are selfish and even if the top countries boycott you'll still have the ones behind them going so they can get easy medals they otherwise would not have had a chance at.

[Nate]

I remember WSF and the slap-down sanctions and threats.
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/features/jackson_pfenning.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/26/sports/figure-skating-splinter-group-announces-plan-to-give-skating-new-leadership.html

Mr. Button's position is admirable, but he's not in a position to lead the charge.  It would take someone more connected.  (Kwan, perhaps?)

I'm not sure Kwan is any more connected than Button is, politically speaking, within the ISU or IOC.

Short of an Athelete or Federation boycott, I don't see how any of his bantering will change anything, though.

[FigureSpins]

I'm not sure Kwan is any more connected than Button is, politically speaking, within the ISU or IOC.

Michelle Kwan was appointed as a US good-will ambassador under two very-different presidents, she's chaired an IOC committee/conference on Women and Sport, and she's a respected athlete around the globe.  The ISU has never had an issue with her and frankly, she's connected.  Definitely a front-runner to make a push, given her relationship with Kim Yu-Na, the offended party in Sochi.

[Nate]

Michelle Kwan was appointed as a US good-will ambassador under two very-different presidents, she's chaired an IOC committee/conference on Women and Sport, and she's a respected athlete around the globe.  The ISU has never had an issue with her and frankly, she's connected.  Definitely a front-runner to make a push, given her relationship with Kim Yu-Na, the offended party in Sochi.

Kim Yuna was hardly an offended party.  Her fans were more offended than she ever was.  I won't even get into that discussion.

But Michelle Kwan has pretty much avoided getting involved with anything political as far as skating is concerned, and has made sure she maintained as neutral as possible WRT "controverseys" in the sport.  Considering she also said "Hands down, Adelina deserved to win" or words obviously to that effect, I wouldn't lump her into the Yunabot club, either :-)

[Loops]

And is there no chance of a figure skater, or at least a non-speed skater to be president of the ISU the next go around, or is Cinquanta in it for the long haul (I read he extended his term at least once, under dubious circumstances...)??

[Nate]

He's retiring. probably not great chances for a figures person outside of Didier and he isn't much better than Cinquanta.

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[FigureSpins]

Kim Yuna was hardly an offended party.  Her fans were more offended than she ever was.  I won't even get into that discussion.

Controversy aside, I stand by my statement that Michelle Kwan is influential and well-respected by many people around the globe.  I specified Kim because of her skating union's complaint, which they filed on her/her country's behalf.  That's the latest trigger in the push to change the governing body of international figure skating.  It can't be overlooked in this conversation.

And is there no chance of a figure skater, or at least a non-speed skater to be president of the ISU the next go around, or is Cinquanta in it for the long haul (I read he extended his term at least once, under dubious circumstances...)??

Didier Gailhaguet (France) is the front-runner for next ISU President.  His detractors point out France's involvement with the 2002 judging scandal, however.  Many people are rooting for David Dore (Canada) based on his extensive experience with figure skating, but there are others as well.  This article is a little out-of-date, having been published when Cinquanta's term was about to expire but was extended, as you point out.

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/commentaries/2012%20ISU%20President.htm

[Nate]

Controversy aside, I stand by my statement that Michelle Kwan is influential and well-respected by many people around the globe.  I specified Kim because of her skating union's complaint, which they filed on her/her country's behalf.  That's the latest trigger in the push to change the governing body of international figure skating.  It can't be overlooked in this conversation.

The Russian federation filed a complaint over the ladies result in 2002 cause Slutskaya wuzrobbed in the SP and no one cared about it.

That complaint is non factor.

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[FigureSpins]

The Russian federation filed a complaint over the ladies result in 2002 cause Slutskaya wuzrobbed in the SP and no one cared about it.

That complaint is non factor.

Again, I brought Kim up as an example of Kwan's connections and respect, not to debate the merit.  You can't dismiss it in this situation because the current complaint has far more momentum than the other example you cited.  The SP judging was buried by the judging scandal that involved the Russian and French judges, which is why it never grew legs or garnered petitions, articles and statements.

[Nate]

Again, I brought Kim up as an example of Kwan's connections and respect, not to debate the merit.  You can't dismiss it in this situation because the current complaint has far more momentum than the other example you cited.  The SP judging was buried by the judging scandal that involved the Russian and French judges, which is why it never grew legs or garnered petitions, articles and statements.

As far as I know that complaint has no momentum - though fans are trying to push it forward as if it is some sacred act of the Pope.  The only difference is that Social Media is much more prevalent and as such you hear and see far more people complaining about it.  Change.org petitions...  Seriously?
2002 was a different era.  Social Media wasn't as prevalent, and Michelle Kwan was the favorite going into the games.  Those games were in the USA.  Also, Reputation Scoring (Boosting of GOEs and PCS for Reputable Skaters to keep them in contention vs. more technically adept youngsters) is a bit more dangerous in IJS than it is in 6.0 because of the amount of points that can be manipulated in the IJS system by the judges via those GOEs and PCS categories.  How many times have you seen fans validate lowball scores for younger skaters by simply saying "She skates juniorish..." or ridiculous things like "She lacks artistry..."

The KSF's complaint is laughable, especially if you actually read it and get down into the details.  All they basically are saying is that the judging panel was supposedly rigged in a way that put Sotnikova at an Advantage (the SP panel put her in a close second place and wasn't nearly as "rigged," BTW) because she was Russian.  Nothing happened in Sochi that hasn't happened anyone else.  The reason why I have no issues with Sotnikova winning is because she out-skated Yuna Kim hands down.

When the judges were NOT anonymous, that didn't stop any of them from cheating so the fact that somehow reverting back to known judging will fix it is a bit of a crock.  IJS is an improvement only in that it accounts for all elements skated in the program and assigns them a value, and potentially rewards quality in the high difficulties over chucking low quality (but difficult) elements.  However, much of the main issues of 6.0 - which made it a TERRIBLE scoring system, BTW - remain in the PCS and GOE scoring.  The same judges that did the 6.0 competitions are simply using the system they've been given to accomplish the same things.

The Scoring system is only the tool that the judges use to give the results they prefer.  The system isn't the problem, the judges are, and they're also the reason why we have the consistent line of messes that we have today.  In any other sport, except that which is most subjective and actually dissuades athleticism in favor of artistry (which is completely subjective, BTW), the results in Sochi would have been what they were had the same skates happened on the same days in any other venue.

[AgnesNitt]

There was a moment in 2002 when the IOC told the ISU to get its judging/scoring act together or it was out of the olympics.
If THAT had no effect, then nothing will.
Realistically, it will take a major scandal for the IOC to kick out figure skating or to ban the ISU from handling figure skating. I can't even think of what that scandal would be. After all Gougne' is now coaching again, becuause her good friend Cinquatta waved away any misdeeds on her part, and another banned for cheating judge is let back in without comment from the IOC, then there is no chance at all, under any circumstances that the ISU will let figure skating go or that the IOC will put pressure on it to reform.

If enough nations (big players and small players) maybe decided to form up another federation to hold Worlds, that could go around the IOC since Worlds seems to have no relation to the Olympics. In that case the IOC might hold a vote which one to recognize. But since the IOC is notoriously corrupt, the ISU will just bribe them.

The only way to have figure skating under another federation is for the IOC to drop skating from the Olympics because it's not profitable, and then the ISU to drop FS because it's not profitable, THEN we could have our sport back.

[Nate]

The only way to fix the sport is to devalue the weight of artistry and favor athletics. What happened in Sochi was no different than Boginskaya vs Zmeskal at the 1991 World Gymnastics Championships.

Gymnastics has moved in that direction and it has worked wonders for the sport. Figure skating needs to go there.

This is supposed to be a sport and fans are acting like it's the Bolshoi.

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[FigureSpins]

The only way to have figure skating under another federation is for the IOC to drop skating from the Olympics because it's not profitable, and then the ISU to drop FS because it's not profitable, THEN we could have our sport back.

There have been many accusations that the monies derived by the ISU from figure skating are used to support speedskating.  I wondered about that this year when icenetwork began carrying speedskating as well as figure skating.  In the US, there are separate organizations for each sport, but I guess some cooperative agreement was reached.  I doubt the USFSA would have shared their portal if it was going to cost them money.

[AgnesNitt]

The ISU does much, much better videos than USFSA, I'll say that for them.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=isu+components+

Yeah, ISU videos make USFSA look like amateur hour.

But notice they do 2 to 3 times speed skating videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SkatingISU

[AgnesNitt]

The only way to fix the sport is to devalue the weight of artistry and favor athletics. What happened in Sochi was no different than Boginskaya vs Zmeskal at the 1991 World Gymnastics Championships.

Gymnastics has moved in that direction and it has worked wonders for the sport. Figure skating needs to go there.

This is supposed to be a sport and fans are acting like it's the Bolshoi.

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ISU took that route after 2002. It's known as 'skate,skate,jump'. The audiences left in droves.

[Nate]

Looking forward to enjoying this new home. Thanks for putting it all in motion!

Yes. Old audiences resistant to change. They can be replaced,  and won't be missed. With change comes sacrifice. Gymnastics went through the same thing.

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[AgnesNitt]

Yes. Old audiences resistant to change. They can be replaced,  and won't be missed. With change comes sacrifice. Gymnastics went through the same thing.

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It's been 12 years. They've stayed away.

[Nate]

It's been 12 years. They've stayed away.

Maybe people just aren't interested in the sport in the same capacity, period, and it has little to do with the technical aspects of the scoring...

I think assuming 6.0 would have kept them is as misguided as assuming they left because of IJS. The big scandal that turned a lot of people off happened with 6.0. We have IJS because of that.

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