Lawsuit re: Olympic Skating Music

[FigureSpins]

This is interesting: https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/musical-duo-heavy-young-heathens-sues-figure-skaters-nbc-over-olympic-song-use-2022-02-17/

These articles state that NBC is responsible for paying for the "synch license" of the live performances; not sure about the TV commercials Reuters mentions.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/arts/music/olympics-figure-skating-songs-copyrights.html

More:
https://flutzescast.wordpress.com/2019/06/21/fair-use-and-figure-skating-music-complex-and-confusing/

I'll be sure to keep any songs by Heavy Young Heathens off my skating music recommendations, not that they were on it in the first place.

[Bill_S]

Hmm, yet another controversy with figure skating this Olympic season.

[Query]

The Young Heathens have done a lousy job of keeping their performances of this song off of Youtube. The Young Heathens have sued other networks and such in the past, and have won or received settlements before. I guess rights suits are just part of the musical scene now. Perhaps it is hard for coaches and choreographers and networks to do everything right when it comes to rights management. Even if you get it right for the live performance, as most coaches and choreographers try to, replays and rebroadcasts may apparently need a separate license.

What a terrible thing to spoil our access to the performance of two such fine skaters...

I love this song. I learned it as a child in an arrangement for organ, of all instruments. I don't particularly love the Young Heathens version. I like it best as a blues tune, sung with lots of blues tones, against acoustic guitar. The Young Heathens give it a rock background which somehow doesn't feel right to me. But did the relatively constant beat work well for the skating pair?

For other interesting versions of the song, try Joan Baez, Glenn Yarbrough, Andy Griffith, Josh White, and Woody Guthrie. If you must have rock, maybe The Animals or Frijid Pink. Maybe you folks ilke other versions?

[FigureSpins]

Hmm, yet another controversy with figure skating this Olympic season.

Right?  It's been, what, a hot minute since the last one? 

[Bill_S]

 

[Query]

Interesting that it played on NBC Olympic Primetime, despite the controversy.

I've changed my mind about the Young Heathens performance of this song.

That version of the song plays pretty well in a large arena, with all the echos. (Or at least the way NBC played it from the stadium.) I'm not sure a subtler performance of the song would.

I never really thought about that sort of thing before. Playing music in a large arena with echos changes the way the audience hears it. Maybe you need strong highlights to make an impression much more than you need subtle nuances that the audience (and judges?) won't be able to hear.

Any thoughts on that?

Do people sometimes pick different music for different venues?

[FigureSpins]

The core of the lawsuit is about the NBC broadcast coverage and reuse of footage for revenue-generating commercials - the band thinks they should be paid for that usage and they may be right, but they should be suing NBC as well, not just the skaters.  (Assuming the skaters were even paid to appear in the commercial. It might have been a IOC-ISU-NBC agreement to share that revenue.)

It is interesting to note that Elton John and Ellie Goulding congratulated and thanked the skaters for using their songs.  Six of one, half-dozen of the other.

I discussed this with someone at the rink, who was concerned about music for a Compete USA event.  Some coaches acquire music from YouTube videos for free.  I don't think that's right, especially for a program that will be used many times.  I ALWAYS buy a legal copy of the mp3 to edit for my skaters' programs, or refer them to a professional if it's too complex for my skills.

[adrien]

The Reuters articles says that the claim is the skaters used the piece initially without any kind of license.  Then it was broadcast without any license.

I would have thought it was pretty standard to obtain rights before using a copyright work in a performance.  Especially in the Olympics where you can guarantee it's going to be broadcast.

I don't know what is so compelling about using a particular version of a song like this though.  You could probably get it re-recorded for less than you'd have to pay Young Heathens to use their recording.  It's a cover already anyway.

Could be even cheaper to get something written especially for the routine.  So many songs get cut to pieces in skating routines, it's very jarring when that happens.  At olympic level, the costs involved in getting there, training, costumes etc etc would make a commission and recording fee for a tailor-made piece look like chump change.

[adrien]

I have friends who have a business running a studio that does only re-recording of popular songs so that organisations can avoid paying large mechanical copyrights.

They have a pool of musicians they bring in on a song-by-song basis depending on who they think should be on the song.

These are top professional quality sound-alikes. 

They do it for gyms mainly, so they often alter tempo as well, for the gym requirements.

Probably would suit figure skating routines pretty well.

[Loops]

I find this whole case very interesting.  Our club just had an experience where we had an in-house exhibition (it was simulation of competition environment) and we got taxed €160 by the local agency that manages the copyright fees.  I need to ask what happens during public exhibitions or competitions which these days are all broadcast live on Vimeo or Youtube and then remain on the Club/City or FFSG's websites (depending on level of competition- FFSG is the French equivalent to the USFSA).  Someone once told me that the rinks pay a general fee for the global rights, since most music these days is under copyright.  Wouldn't the Olympic Organizers have paid some equivalent?  And then perhaps the broadcasters who surely made profits off the advertising slots.

Do top flight skaters generally have to pay for the rights to use music like that?  I feel like this should have been handled somewhere higher up the food chain than the skaters themselves- either with USFSA (for Domestic competitions) or the hosting organizing committee for international competitions.

[supersharp]

For our club's virtual show last spring, we checked copyright protection on all of the songs that the skaters had selected.  Several had to find new covers of the song they wanted, but in the end we released the show on YouTube with no issues.

[Query]

My impression is that many composers and performers license through BMI, ASCAP or SESAC. If they do so, there may be standard policies and contracts for how licensing works.

But some don't. If they have their own licenses and contracts, maybe it can get pretty complicated.

I have friends who have a business running a studio that does only re-recording of popular songs so that organisations can avoid paying large mechanical copyrights.

They have a pool of musicians they bring in on a song-by-song basis depending on who they think should be on the song.

These are top professional quality sound-alikes. 

They do it for gyms mainly, so they often alter tempo as well, for the gym requirements.

Probably would suit figure skating routines pretty well.

This is partly a vocal piece. Your friends' band would have to include someone who sounded similar to get the effect you suggest.

But I think it is important that figure skaters and coaches try to maintain a good reputation. Doing something that feels sleazy like you suggest might not do that.

On top of that, this was a very customized arrangement of the song, quite a bit different from other arrangements of the folk song, which gives it its unique sound. The arrangement probably carries its own copyright, so other musicians could not copy it without paying for the license - which might well never be given.

Of course, the scandal associated with this issue doesn't give a good reputation either.

I would guess none of us know all the details. We don't know if the Young Heathens or their representative did something strange - like insert a gotcha into the contract, or tried to charge a lot more once they established the program or got to the Olympics. Or perhaps they behaved fairly, and the coach and skaters or networks or ISU are at fault. Or perhaps there was just a misunderstanding.

So I don't know who if anyone is at fault, and wouldn't want to speculate.

Of course, many coaches and skaters and choreographers will probably conclude using music from the Young Heathens is dangerous and trouble prone - and won't use it. I don't know if that is fair to the musicians or not.

As to your suggestion that a skater, etc. might commission an original piece, there are many potential problems with that. It can be hard to predict what you will get, and it might not serve the need - or the skater might simply not like the piece.