What to do about painful ankles?

[bayroan]

Sorry if this is a noob question, but these days I've been feeling bruised in the outside of my ankles. I think it's from overtightening my skate laces -- I got my skates last year when I first started skating, and now my heels are slipping out more and more out of them (I wear Jacksons; wide toe box and very narrow heels) so I tighten as much as I can. Today the ankle pain was pretty bad and wasnt allowing me to bend my ankles and knees, so I loosened the laces a bit in the ankle area, and then found that it was hard to jump up and land due to the wobbliness around the ankle that made me feel like I was going to slip up and twist a ligament. I understand that we need support in boots for jumps but is tight ankle lacing a part of that? Am I doing something wrong thats causing this ankle pain? Is this a normal part of breaking in boots after finally getting out of noob stage? Any advice is appreciated.

[MCsAngel2]

Which model Jackson do you wear and how much do you weigh? Because it sounds like your boots are broken down and you need new ones.

[bayroan]

I wear the Jackson Elle. I weigh about 54kg and am 160cm. I was told three months ago by a pro shop guy that I barely managed to break in my boots because he saw no creases around the ankle area and I'd been just starting jumping only a few months ago... is ankle pain a sign of breaking down boots? (Oh noooo)

If this additional info helps, I went to the pro shop a few months back complaining of how the heels were slipping more and more as time went on and they said it's normal deflation of the padding + my narrow heel problem + needing new laces, and re-heat-molded my boot, which helped but... I didn't wanna go back and make them do that again cuz it looked labor intensive and I felt bad. >_<

[tstop4me]

If this additional info helps, I went to the pro shop a few months back complaining of how the heels were slipping more and more as time went on and they said it's normal deflation of the padding + my narrow heel problem + needing new laces, and re-heat-molded my boot, which helped but... I didn't wanna go back and make them do that again cuz it looked labor intensive and I felt bad. >_<

<<Emphasis added.>>  You shouldn't feel this way at all.  That's his job.  If you bought your boots from the tech, adjustments are often (not always) included as part of the purchase price.  If not, then you pay for the service.  Either way, you're paying for work to be done ... so it's not am imposition, it's a business.

Either way, it sounds like you've got serious boot problems that could lead to injury.  If you have confidence in your tech (did you check him out with coaches and experienced skaters?), go back pronto.  If you don't have confidence, get referrals from coaches and experienced skaters for a competent tech. 

[Bill_S]

I once had some GAM boots for my PIC skates that made my ankles feel the same way. They were wonderfully comfortable, but jumping caused a lot of ankle pain just like you describe - it felt like tendons were getting stretched and on the verge of a tear. Pain lasted days after a skating/jumping session.

On ice, I was using Riedells at the same time with no issues, so I replaced the GAMs with another pair of Riedell boots. The issues instantly vanished. Different boots can make a huge difference.

If the problem is bruising, and there's too much space for your heel and you are over-tightening laces to compensate, you might try a gel heel cup to take up a little room. Another skater here recommended these...

https://www.amazon.com/Plantar-Fasciitis-Material-Achilles-Tendinitis/dp/B07CS1XYB6/ref=sr_1_7?crid=14V7VC95DAE7I&keywords=gel%2Bheel%2Bcups&qid=1564831130&s=gateway&sprefix=gel%2Bheel%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-7&th=1

[Loops]

That's me who recommended the heel cups. They do the job very well. I'm a huge fan.

But to me, it sounds like the issues are in the upper area around the hooks. If that is the case, I'd try some silicon gel sleeves.

Heat molding is easy peasy- you aren't putting anyone out. I did it for a friend, prior to her blades being mounted. Her skate tech gave us instructions. 1) you should not feel bad about asking your tech to do it, seriously. It's their job. 2) if you gave a convection oven you trust, you can do it yourself. Ill see if I can find the temp. It was really low.

[bayroan]

Thank you all for your replies. I went to the pro shop. They just shrugged about the ankle pain and said maybe I'm still trying to break in my boots as they still look pretty stiff. Maybe now that I'm finally in a stage where I'm more comfortable bending deeply on the ice, I'm getting ankle area breaking in pains? But other people don't seem to hurt as much as me... I researched all over the internet last night because the bruising feeling was so bad, and found a few issues like mine all coming from ice hockey players. Weird.

They reheat-molded my boots to tighten the heels again, which I assume will last me another month or so until it starts to slip again. They told me to try Riedell's for my next boot since they can just punch out the toes for my wide toe boxes and the heels might fit snugger.

I read somewhere that SP Teri custom is the way to go for extreme pizza feet like mine but my shop only carries Riedell and Jackson and Edea and there are no other pro shops around for the length of the state. Is it true that if I go above the Elle's level I can just order a more modified version of narrow heel/ wide toe on Jackson's through the shop and it will be cheaper than customs?

[tstop4me]

Thank you all for your replies. I went to the pro shop. They just shrugged about the ankle pain and said maybe I'm still trying to break in my boots as they still look pretty stiff. Maybe now that I'm finally in a stage where I'm more comfortable bending deeply on the ice, I'm getting ankle area breaking in pains? But other people don't seem to hurt as much as me... I researched all over the internet last night because the bruising feeling was so bad, and found a few issues like mine all coming from ice hockey players. Weird.

They reheat-molded my boots to tighten the heels again, which I assume will last me another month or so until it starts to slip again. They told me to try Riedell's for my next boot since they can just punch out the toes for my wide toe boxes and the heels might fit snugger.

I read somewhere that SP Teri custom is the way to go for extreme pizza feet like mine but my shop only carries Riedell and Jackson and Edea and there are no other pro shops around for the length of the state. Is it true that if I go above the Elle's level I can just order a more modified version of narrow heel/ wide toe on Jackson's through the shop and it will be cheaper than customs?

Since you're having problems with your ankles, did the tech also punch out ankle regions of the boots?  This let's you lace up the rest of the boots snugly without putting undue pressure on the ankle bones.

Do you have the Elle Fusion or the previous version of Elle?  The Elle Fusion (but not the previous Elle) is formed on the Elite last, which is stock split width:  the ball width is one width wider than the heel width.  This is a good combo for skaters with wide/normal toes and narrow heels.  It's critical that the heels fit snugly.  At some level of the Jackson boots (don't know which model since the Jackson line has been in a state of flux; check with Jackson), you can order a semi-custom if your toe/heel width difference is more than one size.  Assuming you have nothing else with your feet that requires a full custom, semi-custom is a lot cheaper than a full custom and would be the way to go.  It would be much better to order semi-custom than to order a narrow boot to fit your heel and then have the tech punch out your toebox (I'd check around for a different tech if that's the solution he's pushing).

By the way, as mentioned elsewhere, SP-Teri has changed ownership and is in the process of moving their equipment from CA to TN.  So it's probably not a good option until you find out whether the product line stays the same or not.

[FigureSpins]

I have custom Harlicks that I wear six days a a week for hours at a time.

I wear a gel sleeve on my right ankle because the outside ankle gets bruised.  I blame it on a combination of blade alignment issues and insoles, but it's really my weight and strength that is the major cause.

The sleeve has stopped the bruising and allowed the ankle to heal.  I forgot to put it on yesterday and my ankle is fine, but I wouldn't want to risk another bout of injured ankle because it was starting to cause tendonitis.

The problem with ankle sleeves is that they "stretch" the ankle area, so the skate feels more "roomy" in the ankle area when you're not wearing the sleeve.  I'm not a fan of lace bite, so I'd rather wear the sleeve.

Someone suggested a Bungapad gel disc instead of the sleeve: https://www.bungapads.com/en/gel-pads-en/bungapads-gel-disc.html

Might be an option - wouldn't take up as much space.

[masterblaster]

I think it's possible you may have broken down your boot without noticing creasing on the outside, especially if it's an Elle Fusion. My skate fitter told me she usually only sells Elles to children, as they are not really appropriately supportive for adults, especially once they start basic jumps. They'd probably be fine for all the pre-jumping basic skills and recreational skating, but it really sounds to me like you're losing ankle support after a year. I've heard multiple reports of people in Elles that they often don't show obvious creasing, even when they are breaking down, fwiw.

[bayroan]

Thank you all for your added insight! I have the Elle by Jackson, and it doesn't say Fusion on the boot so I assume it's the older model. I guess that means it's not a split width? I thought all Jacksons go by split widths but maybe I'm wrong.

I will try adding some kind of padding around the ankles, and also look into punching out. I didn't know that ankles could be punched out too! Thank you. I assumed that it's correct that I haven't come close to breaking down my boot because I've been a newbie for the better part of the year since starting, having only gotten into crossovers half a year go and now going from waltz jumps to salchows. I assumed I wouldn't put a lot of pressure on the boot because I'm not all that heavy, but maybe 53kg is still heavy in figure skating standards. Sorry if I'm all over the place, I'm a true newbie at this, haha. Thank you for your advice!

[tstop4me]

Thank you all for your added insight! I have the Elle by Jackson, and it doesn't say Fusion on the boot so I assume it's the older model. I guess that means it's not a split width? I thought all Jacksons go by split widths but maybe I'm wrong.

The Fusion sole and heel has a distinctive look and is covered with rubber tread, so take a look to compare with what you have:  https://jacksonultima.com/collections/outfits/products/jackson-elle-womens (be sure to watch the video).  Only the Jackson boots that are formed on the "Elite" last come stock in split width.  At one time, only the advanced models were formed on this last, but Jackson has migrated it down to the Elle Fusion (but not the previous Elle).  Jackson creates a lot of confusion with these changes, and their new website doesn't help at all.

[bayroan]

Thank you for the video! Aside from the "Jackson" logo on the bottom of the boot, this boot looks exactly like the boot in the video. Looks like I have the Fusion after all? I called the pro shop and talked about this issue today and they said they only carry medium widths, whatever that means, so that is what mine is too, since I got it from them last year, and said that the only skates that allow you to order extra narrow are from Elite upwards, which are for double jumps, which is a little overbooted for me. I don't have a coach so I can only go by what you lovely folks and the pro shop have to go by... so I guess I'll take it in again and ask them to look at the inside instead of just the outside this time.

[icepixie]

Bluntly, buying a narrower width than you need and relying on punching to make it fit is a terrible idea and I would also find another tech if that's what this person is suggesting.  Punching and stretching are unlikely to result in major adjustments.

My experience with Riedell vs. Jackson is Riedells have an even wider heel in addition to the narrower toe and will likely compound your problem.  My experience was with stock boots; customs may be a whole different ball game.  I also did not find SP-Teri to be very good at the wide toe/narrow heel thing when I got their customs, but I have many other foot problems, so YMMV.  They also may change with new ownership; the new owner was intimately involved with my boot saga, so he knows how much SP-Teri did not work for feet like mine!

I also second the suggestion that you may have broken down the Jackson Elles.  Granted, I weigh rather more than you, but my Jackson Premieres, which are something like twice as strong as the Elles, started breaking down at around 18 months and were totally done for at two years.  I got them when I was learning toe loop and salchow and kept them through some loop and flip attempts, and was skating about 3 hours per week.

[bayroan]

Your anecdotal advice is very helpful!! I need to stop trying to dismiss my issue as a noob delusion for sure then -- I was trying to convince myself that I'm overreacting and mistaking myself for a more serious skater than I am because I only started a year ago. I skate anywhere between 3-8 hours a week. The pro shop person today on the phone did suggest that I try their Risport as well, since apparently they carry a model and they might be a little snugger in the heel. I'm crossing my fingers... between Edea, Risport, and an overbooted Jacksons with narrower customized heel widths, there must be something that works hopefully? Thank you again!