Very basic adult beginner: do I need new skates?

[huihuibunny]

Hi all, I just stared to learn skating as a 27 yr old adult female. My first time ever on ice was about three months ago. I am currently working on adult basic skills 3 & 4 (my group class instructor likes to mix levels up...). I practice on ice once or twice (at most) every week. I am about 5'8" and 130 lbs. I am currently wearing Riedell 110 Opal. I read mixed things on Riedell website about the skill levels of these skates, in some places they are considered recreational series; in some places they are considered beginner series; in some places they are recommended for level 1-3; in some places they are  said to cover all the basic skills until jumps...

I don't particularly feel anything wrong with these except for them being a tad big in my toe area, so I wear thick socks to fill in the gaps. I wonder if these skates will give me adequate support to finish a few more levels of adult basic skills classes, or would I be better off to get betters skates now?

And if I do get new skates, should I get one that can support single jumps, so that I can keep them for another year or two at least, or would they be too advanced for my current level, considering I haven't been on ice for long?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

[rmsilva]

I'm 44 years old and I started ice skating a year and a half ago. I passed Adult 2-3 in rental skates, then switched to stock Riedell 133 Diamond. These skates took me though Adult 6 and Pre-Freestyle.

I liked the stiffness of the boots, but my left foot is size 8.5, my right foot is size 9.5, and for some reason an authorized Riedell sales rep sold me size 10 boots. Because my boots were a little too big, and the stock Capri blade has a poor spin rocker, I was having a terrible time with spins, and beginning jumps. I ended up upgrading to custom Harlicks, because they are within driving distance of my house.

When you said your boots were "a tad big in my toe area", that immediately made me think of my experience. Go to the Riedell website and download the Riedell Sizing Guide, to make sure you have a proper fit. Your boots should be really snug when skating. Thick socks simply don't cut it.

As for boot stiffness, get definitely boots that can support single jumps - they will not be too difficult to break in.

Just my two cents.

[huihuibunny]

I'm 44 years old and I started ice skating a year and a half ago. I passed Adult 2-3 in rental skates, then switched to stock Riedell 133 Diamond. These skates took me though Adult 6 and Pre-Freestyle.

I liked the stiffness of the boots, but my left foot is size 8.5, my right foot is size 9.5, and for some reason an authorized Riedell sales rep sold me size 10 boots. Because my boots were a little too big, and the stock Capri blade has a poor spin rocker, I was having a terrible time with spins, and beginning jumps. I ended up upgrading to custom Harlicks, because they are within driving distance of my house.

When you said your boots were "a tad big in my toe area", that immediately made me think of my experience. Go to the Riedell website and download the Riedell Sizing Guide, to make sure you have a proper fit. Your boots should be really snug when skating. Thick socks simply don't cut it.

As for boot stiffness, get definitely boots that can support single jumps - they will not be too difficult to break in.

Just my two cents.

Thank you! !

[nicklaszlo]

Thick socks may irritate your skin.

Ask your group instructor.  Lots of people have boots that are way too big and that can be easily spotted by watching them skate.

If they hurt, get an expert boot fitter to sell you some new ones.

[huihuibunny]

Thick socks may irritate your skin.

Ask your group instructor.  Lots of people have boots that are way too big and that can be easily spotted by watching them skate.

If they hurt, get an expert boot fitter to sell you some new ones.

Thank you! It doesn't hurt or irritate me though, I was mostly wondering if for taking classes these skates are not good anyways that I might as well switch to different ones

[Loops]

You should take the skills rating on the website with a grain of salt.  Proper stiffness depends on so much- your height/weight, as you indicated, your skill level, AND your innate strength and technique.  Some people prefer skates softer  than the website skill level would dictate, others stiffer, others right on. 

You'll probably break those down pretty quickly; judging from the toepick those are recreational/absolute beginner skates.  Great for a first pair to see if skating is for you!  I would personally wait until they're good and dead to purchase new ones.  Then you'll use your current skill level to help determine which skates to get.  Skating is expensive enough, you'll have lots of opportunities to throw money at skates!  I would, however recommend you use this time to find a good skate tech- s/he will make all the difference in your future skate experience, you'll go to them for sharpening, skate adjustment and repairs, all sorts of things.  They'll be able to fit you, and help you choose a boot that meets your current needs and foot shape.  It is rare to find a boot that fits out of the box (even with minor adjustments), and techs don't often keep a huge stock on hand, so odds are you'll have to order your next skates anyway, so you definitely have things to use this time for.

That sounds almost contradictory, "wait, but don't wait", I guess what I'm saying is don't feel like you need to be in a hurry, but don't wait until the last minute.  Bad decisions get made when we are rushed......

[huihuibunny]

You should take the skills rating on the website with a grain of salt.  Proper stiffness depends on so much- your height/weight, as you indicated, your skill level, AND your innate strength and technique.  Some people prefer skates softer  than the website skill level would dictate, others stiffer, others right on. 

You'll probably break those down pretty quickly; judging from the toepick those are recreational/absolute beginner skates.  Great for a first pair to see if skating is for you!  I would personally wait until they're good and dead to purchase new ones.  Then you'll use your current skill level to help determine which skates to get.  Skating is expensive enough, you'll have lots of opportunities to throw money at skates!  I would, however recommend you use this time to find a good skate tech- s/he will make all the difference in your future skate experience, you'll go to them for sharpening, skate adjustment and repairs, all sorts of things.  They'll be able to fit you, and help you choose a boot that meets your current needs and foot shape.  It is rare to find a boot that fits out of the box (even with minor adjustments), and techs don't often keep a huge stock on hand, so odds are you'll have to order your next skates anyway, so you definitely have things to use this time for.

That sounds almost contradictory, "wait, but don't wait", I guess what I'm saying is don't feel like you need to be in a hurry, but don't wait until the last minute.  Bad decisions get made when we are rushed......

Thank you! This is very helpful

[dlbritton]

One item from manufacturer websites to take with a grain of salt is numerical stiffness ratings.

Ski boots all have a stiffness or flex rating and it is uniform across the industry, so a 100 flex from one manufacturer is the same stiffness as a 100 flex boot from another manufacturer.

When I was looking at buying my first pair of boots I asked several fitters and skaters if they knew if it was consistent between brands but no one knew. I spoke to someone at Riedell, who was very helpful in discussing the various Riedell boots , however he didn't know much about the stiffness rating and if it was consistent between manufacturers. (I chose 255 Motions as my first boot after completing basic 3, mainly at Riedell's recommendation, and have been very happy). An email to Jackson also got a reply that they didn't know if it was consistent between manufacturers.

At Adult nationals several years ago I spoke to David Ripp with Edea and he said it was a uniform standard, and went further to say it was the same scale as ski boots use.

I would question relying on a standard that no one knows anything about. If they don't know what it means how do they know they are "measuring" (determining??) it correctly?

[huihuibunny]

One item from manufacturer websites to take with a grain of salt is numerical stiffness ratings.

Ski boots all have a stiffness or flex rating and it is uniform across the industry, so a 100 flex from one manufacturer is the same stiffness as a 100 flex boot from another manufacturer.

When I was looking at buying my first pair of boots I asked several fitters and skaters if they knew if it was consistent between brands but no one knew. I spoke to someone at Riedell, who was very helpful in discussing the various Riedell boots , however he didn't know much about the stiffness rating and if it was consistent between manufacturers. (I chose 255 Motions as my first boot after completing basic 3, mainly at Riedell's recommendation, and have been very happy). An email to Jackson also got a reply that they didn't know if it was consistent between manufacturers.

At Adult nationals several years ago I spoke to David Ripp with Edea and he said it was a uniform standard, and went further to say it was the same scale as ski boots use.

I would question relying on a standard that no one knows anything about. If they don't know what it means how do they know they are "measuring" (determining??) it correctly?

Thank you! Wow you really did a lot of homework back then. Just curious, 255 Motions didn't feel too stiff or weren't too hard to break in at basic skills level?

[dlbritton]

Thank you! Wow you really did a lot of homework back then. Just curious, 255 Motions didn't feel too stiff or weren't too hard to break in at basic skills level?

No, but I am a 200 lb male ski instructor.  My LTS coach recommended the 255 Motion if I went with Riedell. I don't recall what she recommended in Jackson.
I spoke to a technician at Riedell about the appropriate boot, thinking of the boot below the 255 Motion (I believe it was the 133), the 255 Motion and the Bronze star which is the boot above the Motion. He also recommended the 255 Motion based on my weight and skating level.

I was interested in the stiffness rating because I knew it was consistent in the ski industry and was more curious if the ski rating scale was the same as the skate rating scale. I actually assumed the rating was consistent within the skate industry and was surprised when no one (besides Edea) seemed to know.

Interestingly I had a pair of the "old" 255 Motions , which were in my car when it was stolen, and my current Motions's are the "new" model which is supposedly slightly stiffer but lighter. The new ones actually feel less stiff than my old ones and I don't have enough experience to notice the weight difference.

[Loops]

One item from manufacturer websites to take with a grain of salt is numerical stiffness ratings.

...

I would question relying on a standard that no one knows anything about. If they don't know what it means how do they know they are "measuring" (determining??) it correctly?

Oh my goodness yes this.  I've asked the same question of my (very good, in fact awesome) tech, and he always changes the subject.  He works with Jacksons, riedells and harlicks regularly and has done as long as I've known him (35+ years).....Deals with the others when he has too.  If anyone would have a clue....he would.  I'm working with him right now to order a pair of skates, stiffness is one thing we need to decide.....I'll bring it up again and see what he says 

Will report back.

[Query]

Even if there were a specific standard (e.g., if you push the top middle of the side with a force x pounds, you get a deviation of n thousands of an inch), it would not apply well for everyone - because people have very different safe ranges of motion, as well as patterns of motion, and deviations are unlikely to be linear. Also that stiffness varies with position on the boot, and that likely depends a lot on the manufacturer and model.

We do know that shoe and boot sizing varies a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer, and sometimes model to model - at least with American sizing. Even with European (mm) sizing, the assumed foot shape is very different.

So, unfortunately, there is going to be a lot of guesswork, and variation. If you can find a store - anywhere you are willing to drive - that has the same brand and model you are considering buying, and can try it on, even if the size isn't quite right, that might give you some idea.

As far as thick socks - I have sometimes had good luck with them, after I modified the boots to fit me uniformly all over. That is very similar to having a plush liner in the boot, which I like. But if some places are more loose or tight than others, a thicker sock might give you more space for stuff to slide around and give you a blister. That said, I'm not a high level skater - it is very possible that high level skaters create larger forces.

I think some of the best advice anyone can  give is to find the best fitter you can, determined by asking other good skaters and coaches, and buy and be adjusted through that person - even if you have to drive a long way, because you will have to live with the results a long time, and you really can hurt yourself badly, even break bones, if fit is wrong.

But if you are still happy with your skates, and can make adjustments one way or another - e.g., by sticking a little tape or adhesive foam on your insole or insole, or cutting and shaping your own insole, and feel they provide sufficient support for what you want to do now, maybe they are good enough, for now. Playing around with such modifications will teach you a lot about how to fit shoes and boots, since most people don't buy fully customized shoes and boots - I think almost everyone should learn to do that, and that it should be taught in school - provided of course that their feet are sensitive enough to feel where they are tight and where they are loose, and you look for blisters (friction points) on your feet.

[huihuibunny]

Even if there were a specific standard (e.g., if you push the top middle of the side with a force x pounds, you get a deviation of n thousands of an inch), it would not apply well for everyone - because people have very different safe ranges of motion, as well as patterns of motion, and deviations are unlikely to be linear. Also that stiffness varies with position on the boot, and that likely depends a lot on the manufacturer and model.

We do know that shoe and boot sizing varies a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer, and sometimes model to model - at least with American sizing. Even with European (mm) sizing, the assumed foot shape is very different.

So, unfortunately, there is going to be a lot of guesswork, and variation. If you can find a store - anywhere you are willing to drive - that has the same brand and model you are considering buying, and can try it on, even if the size isn't quite right, that might give you some idea.

As far as thick socks - I have sometimes had good luck with them, after I modified the boots to fit me uniformly all over. That is very similar to having a plush liner in the boot, which I like. But if some places are more loose or tight than others, a thicker sock might give you more space for stuff to slide around and give you a blister. That said, I'm not a high level skater - it is very possible that high level skaters create larger forces.

I think some of the best advice anyone can  give is to find the best fitter you can, determined by asking other good skaters and coaches, and buy and be adjusted through that person - even if you have to drive a long way, because you will have to live with the results a long time, and you really can hurt yourself badly, even break bones, if fit is wrong.

But if you are still happy with your skates, and can make adjustments one way or another - e.g., by sticking a little tape or adhesive foam on your insole or insole, or cutting and shaping your own insole, and feel they provide sufficient support for what you want to do now, maybe they are good enough, for now. Playing around with such modifications will teach you a lot about how to fit shoes and boots, since most people don't buy fully customized shoes and boots - I think almost everyone should learn to do that, and that it should be taught in school - provided of course that their feet are sensitive enough to feel where they are tight and where they are loose, and you look for blisters (friction points) on your feet.

Thank you!!

[ChristyRN]

I second the "find a good fitter" thought. I was in the wrong size for the first 10 years I skated and am still trying to kill the bad habits I learned.

My granddaughter is in Riedell Opals--she's four and a half and in snow plow sam 3.  She loves skating with Grandma.

Like others said, read skate level recommendations with a grain of salt. I'm in a semi-custom Jackson Premiere, skating pre-bronze working on single jumps. I have a friend in Jackson Freestyle (two levels lower) working on Adult Gold and landing her axel. It's a matter of comfort, skating style, and size.

[huihuibunny]

I second the "find a good fitter" thought. I was in the wrong size for the first 10 years I skated and am still trying to kill the bad habits I learned.

My granddaughter is in Riedell Opals--she's four and a half and in snow plow sam 3.  She loves skating with Grandma.

Like others said, read skate level recommendations with a grain of salt. I'm in a semi-custom Jackson Premiere, skating pre-bronze working on single jumps. I have a friend in Jackson Freestyle (two levels lower) working on Adult Gold and landing her axel. It's a matter of comfort, skating style, and size.

Thank you!