Softec Skates

[mnrjpf99]

My daughter is considering buy a pair of Jackson Softec skates. From what I understand, they are a good rec or beginner skate. What I am wondering is, if could she use them to get through USFSA Basic skills 8?

[AgnesNitt]

A review:
http://figureskating.about.com/od/bootsandblades/gr/softec.htm

I've seen these at my rink but I haven't skated in them. I'm going to wait for others to comment on these. But if your daughter wants to go through all of LTS, why not get Jackson Classiques? They're real skates and they will support low jumps and spins. Unless your daughter's feet are growing so fast and you want to start her in Softec, then move her on up to Classiques.

[mnrjpf99]

She just likes the design of the Softec skates and she says that regular skates hurt her feet.

[JSM]

I think it depends on how old your daughter is, what level she is currently, and how fast she is growing.

As an instructor, I don't like the softec skates after about Basic 4 or 5, due to the blade quality and how they bend.  I see kids go to pre freeskate (formerly basic 7/8) in them, but some elements are harder for them because of it (particularly spins, IMO).  But skates are expensive, and I support the family doing what is best for them financially and comfort wise!

If regular skates hurt, maybe they don't fit properly?  A lot of beginner skates are not comfortable and only come in one width.

Edit: phone typos

[dlbritton]

When I started Adult 1 LTS 3 years ago, I used a soft boot of some sort and immediately hated it. Fortunately the rink had some old all leather skates (Dominion brand from Canada) that most skaters did not find comfortable but I felt much more at ease with. I am used to ski boots and wanted some amount of support which the soft boots did not provide. Last summer when my car and skates (Riedell Motion) were stolen I was back in rentals. The rink had gotten new "soft" boots that looked more like figure skates than hiking boots so I tried a pair but they still had little support. I went back to the old leather skates and was able to do most of the Adult 4 skills comfortably in them until I got replacement Riedell Motion boots.

I was able to to bunny hops and waltz jumps in the Dominion boots but would not think about trying a jump in a soft boot.

Of course I am a 5'10"  190 lb male so I put a bit of stress on equipment.

[Query]

I tried them years ago. They made it difficult to do deep edges. But I was an ice dancer, where deep edges are very important.

They were comfortable when I wasn't doing anything.

If your DD hates how most figure skates feel, maybe she hasn't found a brand and model that fits her feet right.

[mnrjpf99]

She is an adult, so her feet aren't growing. She has wide feet like I do and that is one problem. She has bony feet as well, so she has a hard time with a typical leather boot such as a Jackson or Riedell due to pressure points. She also has a sensory thing going on, so she doesn't like the feel of certain things. I could never get jeans on that kid for the life of me. Lol
I was thinking that maybe the crappy G4 blades could be changed. I have a set of Ultima Mark IV's in new condition, that may fit the boots she is looking at. I would have to grind off the rivets, but I have done that before a few times. Lol
I was just wondering mostly about the support and basic fit of them?

[AgnesNitt]

What about coach boots? They're not as stiff as regular boots, and insulated so they may be softer on the inside

[mnrjpf99]

I will have to check into the coach boots. Thanks.

[Query]

She has wide feet like I do and that is one problem. She has bony feet as well, so she has a hard time with a typical leather boot such as a Jackson or Riedell due to pressure points.

The existance of excessively squished feet or pressure points means they don't fit. Though maybe the boots can be punched out at those pressure points so they don't exist. If your boot tech can't do it, do you have a ball and ring pliers (sometimes called a bunion stretcher) like this?

There also exist boot brands and models and sizes that are a lot wider - and their are always (expensive) custom boots.

I would have to grind off the rivets, but I have done that before a few times.

Ooh. I always assumed you needed a big expensive rivet punch machine, like many pro shops have. Never occurred to me to use a cheap grinder. But how do you rivet-in the next blades without fancy equiopment? Or do you use bolts or screws on the next pair, like on "real" figure skates?

[mnrjpf99]

I agree with having boots punched. The "pro shop" at our rink only has the bunion punch, so it doesn't really get longer areas like for toes and such.
As far as the mounting new blades go, I have just used regular screws or screws with T nuts. The T nut and screw method are a good way to go for softer souls that may strip out. I am thinking about just ordering a replacement set of double threaded screws like are used with Edea boots for projects like that.
The experimental skates I built, using hockey boots with figure blades, I just used regular screws and they hold fine. I built them, for the intention of getting a boot that would fit my foot with ease, but with a figure blade. So far, they have been a pretty good pair of skates, until I get some good ones to actually fit right on a low budget. Lol The hockey skates I got at Goodwill for $10, so I didn't have much into the boots. I mounted a pair of MK Silver Test blades on them. The blades had been ground to a 1/2 ROH before I got them. They are basically a free style blade with the drag pick ground off. (For now)
I call them my "Frankin Figures". They are bulky and ugly for sure. Lol I used a spacer to get some of the heel height and a heel lift in soul to build the heel up even further, to get the height of a regular heel on a standard boot. I hope that all made sense somehow. Lol

[riley876]

Oh that's awesome!  I did something very similar, except I used inline slalom boots.

I just *love* the dirty looks I get, especially from the young "perfect" skaters.  You know, the ones who have the zuca bag,  the twisted stripe Chloe Noel pants, the perfect jacket,  the perfect blonde ponytail,  and the pristinely clean pretty white skates (that in actuality look like meat worker's gumboots).

I was recently given a pair of hockey skates,  I might actually try this, just for fun.

[skatemom189]

Jackson softecs elite skates come with Mark IV blades mounted.  My husband has a pair for rec skating and is happy with them.  My DD started in softecs, but only wore them through basic 2.  I'd say they are good through basic 4 for most people.  Once you get to three turns and back crossovers a real figure skate is needed to learn correct figure technique.

[mnrjpf99]

Riley876. I would love to see what your skates look like. :0) Do you get good ankle support with them? The only issue I have is that the ankles are a bit big, so it's hard to get rid of all of the floppiness.
I know one thing. They are a far cry from the Edea's (when I can get them to fit). I tried skating in the Edea's the other day and I almost had to hang onto the boards. Lol Just the blades with a 7/16 ROH made them very sticky (edgy).
Skatemom109. What is it about the soft skate, that makes it hard for 3 turns and such? Is it because of bulkiness, or not fitting snug enough for good blade control?

[riley876]

I've since trimmed the long bolts back BTW,  and changed the ankle strap over to a "spider ratchet" type, which was needed to stop the buckles from hooking up with each other when doing chasses etc.

Ankle support is superb.  Could not ask for better.  The combination of the rigid plastic shell and the articulated cuff means you get total lateral ankle support, but some controlled front-to-back motion. But it's not actually totally freely articulated, which would suck.   As far as boots go, pretty much what works for inline slalom works for figure skating (or at least the sort of figure skating that I do, i.e. MITF and figures).  I expect the shell to essentially never break down, though the liners are a replace-every-500 hours sort of thing, but they're cheap enough.

My drag picks have been removed too.  I didn't do it BTW, though I probably would have if they didn't come like that.   But the blades are so worn out (but oddly enough, they aren't flat), that the next pick up is actually useful enough for the few things I need it for.

[mnrjpf99]

Well. I guess I know what my next project will be... Lol

[riley876]

If you do go down this route, you do need to be a bit picky about the skate, in particular it has to have a hard shell, or it'll be too sloppy.  And it has to be a hard shell or the mounting won't be solid enough.   Most recreations inline skates are soft boots these days, and they suck.

Something like:  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Flying-Eagle-F2-Inline-Skates-Falcon-Professional-Adult-Roller-Skating-Shoes-Slalom-Braking-Free-Skating-Good/822552_32450456611.html  is a good quality budget skate.    Actually if you just rocker it heavily (i.e. put even smaller wheels in the end positions), it'd make a perfectly feasible "off ice" skate for practicing moves etc.

You also have to get creative with making plastic wedges to match the bottom of the skate to the frame.   I have some tips for this if you want it, but otherwise mostly just a matter of drilling and bolting (use BIG washers under the bolt heads to prevent them pulling through the plastic).

[Query]

I didn't know about T-nuts. Where do you folks learn about all these fascinating tools and fasteners? Are there good books, web sources, etc., to teach such things?

I agree with having boots punched. The "pro shop" at our rink only has the bunion punch, so it doesn't really get longer areas like for toes and such.

"Bunion punch" refers to several things, including devices that might not fit into the toe area. The one I linked to above, a ball-and-ring pliers (mine is cast-iron, but steel ones are made too), can get all the way into the boot, next to and above the toes - if you unlace the boot, and stick the pliers in from beside the lower part of the boot tongue. You can even lengthen the toe box a bit. My toes are longer than the ball area of the pliers, so I needed to punch one area, move the pliers a bit, and punch again (and again, and again) - it took me days to do that. Obviously I took it out while skating.

I think of a ball and ring pliers as a medieval boot torture device. When it is in the boot, it can punch it out about 3/8" (approximate), but after it comes out, the leather gradually returns to original shape somewhat, even if you use heat and alcohol to aid the stretch, and keep re-tightening it over a period of hours or days. I guess leather can stretch only so far (like inflexible me!)- occasionally I have to redo it. And about all that is practical on leather boots is about 1 size expansion in width at most, 1/2 or 1/3 size in length, because the toe box is one of the stiffest parts of any skate boot.

If you don't have a drag pick anymore, you could move the blade back on the boots, and maybe grind off the back of the blade if that makes it too long - and reshape the blade to move the sweet spot, and reshim the mount to make the center level again, and regain the "right" distance off the ice (though Edea claims lower is better). A lot of work - you are almost making a new blade. Plus, there is a possibility that you have reached the part of the metal that isn't as hard, which needs more frequent sharpening - so it may not be worth it, especially if you don't sharpen your own. But it sounds like you are good with your hands and tools, so maybe you would enjoy all that.

If you go to thrift stores and used sport stores, you may find a figure skate boots and blades that fit with a little work, and aren't broken down or too worn down - or maybe you can find some growing kid's used boots - but maybe that isn't your thing. I guess you like the visual style of non-figure boots.

[skatemom189]

Skatemom109. What is it about the soft skate, that makes it hard for 3 turns and such? Is it because of bulkiness, or not fitting snug enough for good blade control?

Bulky, not stiff enough anywhere.  Also, they have a Velcro strap to fasten at the top of the boot which limits ankle forward motion.  He can't hold an edge with any significant amount of lean because they can't support him.  But they are warm and comfortable, and have decent beginner blades so he has good flow with regular forward skating.  So good rec skates, but not for learning figure skating.

[mnrjpf99]

Riley876: Thanks for the tips

Query: I agree that the device used for punching is quite mid-evil looking. Lol
As far as doing the things I have done to skates, I just came up with ideas is all. A lil creativity and common sense can go a long way.

As far as Goodwill goes, I love that place! Every time I go in there, I look at their skates, in hopes of either finding something good or parts to harvest. Lol I have seen some Riedell's in there off and on.
When you are on a low budget, you have to do what you can to make things work. I just want a pair of skates, that will fit me so I can progress. Part of my problem, (besides posture on and off ice) is going from skate to skate, to try and good a good fitting pair.

I LOVE skating so much and I want to do whatever it takes to be able to do it and do it right. :0)

Skatemom109: Thanks for the info on the soft skates. :0)