Blade Problem

[puppie96]

Here's the condensed version:  I allowed my skates with MK Phantom blades to be sharpened by an unfamiliar sharpener.  There were obvious problems afterwards as I couldn't turn or stop and felt completely out of control.  You can see in the photos that after the sharpening, they were very thin, while before the sharpening, their width was comparable to the other MK Phantom in the photo for comparison.  Since then, two people have tried to fix the blades.  That's helped a little, but I'm still struggling not to fall back on the heel.  Another person with the company that messed up the first sharpening, although admitting that bad work was done, insists that the blades are not ruined.  Looking at what I'm left with, I'm not sure whether I believe that.  I noticed the skinniness right away and questioned it.

Thanks for taking a look.  As you know, it's very hard for ordinary people to get answers about stuff like this.

                       

[Bill_S]

That's just incredible! They must have removed almost an eight-inch of metal. Not only will that feel profoundly different than before, it's hard to fathom how hard they must have worked to remove that much material - even with a powered grinder. The metal removed is about 25x the amount I remove when I hand-sharpen. It must have been a brand-new person who had no skill or training.

I hope you never, never go back there for sharpening. They will probably resist replacing your expensive blades, but it would be tempting to have an attorney draft a letter to them on your behalf seeking reimbursement. Of course, legal fees aren't exactly cheap either!

I wish you luck, but the blade has had most of its life ground away, and you'll probably have to grind even more to match the original profile - assuming it can be done. Next time, trace your blades onto paper to have a record of the profile for comparison - like this...

[puppie96]

Thank you very much for responding. The individual who did the bad work first insisted before starting that my regular sharpener had everything all wrong.  Then after the damage had been done and I could barely stay on my feet after his work, he pretty much blew me off with a "you'll get used to it" kind of reply. It sounds like you've had a lot of experience with blades and sharpening?

[rd350]

That's crazy!  Is there any management you can go to?  If affiliated with a rink, I'd let their management know too.

[davincisop]

...this didn't happen in Kissimmee did it?

Because a guy there once sharpened my blades and screwed them up, too. He looked at them initially and said the guy that sharpened my blades before (a master sharpener who I had been trusting for 5 years) had sharpened them wrong, then proceeded to give it three different angles.

I wish I'd had a backbone and called to complain, but instead I drove down to my guy and had him fix them. He couldn't believe the mess the other guy made.

[icedancer]

I think we have all had this.

I had this happen once: I had bought new dance blades - expensive!  Then when I brought them in the first time for a sharpening the guy - the person I bought them from said, "Oh, it looks like you are going to need new blades soon - maybe you should get a Gold Seal!  (Very very expensive!).  I said, something like, "Well, that is weird, I just bought those blades from you a couple of months ago - and so he backed off.  I hadn't really looked at them right away because I thought he was just being a jerk but when I got home I noticed that they had been reduced by about 1/2!! 

I showed them to a bunch of blade guys and they all agreed that this person must have ruined my blades.  So I went black - "guns abalzing" and told him that I was going to call my lawyer and blah blah blah.

So he agreed to get me a new pair.  When the new pair came in he showed them to me and I went back to the sharpening area to watch him sharpen them after he mounted them on the boots.  They still had the little rubbery coverings on them so I knew they were brand new.  I could also see that the sharpening edge on these blades were not very thick either - in fact, they looked like a regular blade but by about half (if that makes any sense) - he proceeded to sharpen them right in front of me.  I didn't say anything else and neither did he.  I was kind of embarrassed about the whole thing and honestly never went back there again. 

It turns out that this was just the way the blades were.

Anyway, this is not to say that your sharpener didn't do something wrong - but just to say that if you do make a stink about it they just might get you a new pair of blades.  I would not hesitate to do that actually.

[AgnesNitt]

Those don't even look like the same blades. It looked like he destroyed one blade and found an old one in the trash and replaced it.

[Christy]

I really feel for you as I am currently in a very similar position http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=6532.0.

The quick version - I took my blades to a more local sharpener, he was totally critical of the job my usual (great) sharpener had done, then proceeded to wreck my blades. He managed to partially rectify one of the problems but totally failed to fix the mess he made of the rockers. I'm off to see my usual sharpener later this week and no other sharpener will ever touch my blades again.

Any chance you could post a picture of the entire blade?

[Query]

That's just incredible! They must have removed almost an eight-inch of metal. Not only will that feel profoundly different than before, it's hard to fathom how hard they must have worked to remove that much material - even with a powered grinder.

Actually you could do it in a few minutes rental-shar[ening wheels - faster if you use the cross grinder, which has a very coarse grit.

Someone tried to teach me to sharpen on a powered grinder.

He had trouble centering the wheel on the blade - so each time he made a trial cut, which he always did with the power on, which wasn't properly centered, he would take it back to the cross grinder to re-create a flat surface to start with. It was complicated by the fact that the blade holding jig had no easy way to adjust centering by small amounts - he loosened a couple screws, repositioned the blade, and retightened them, then tried again.

Even to me, it was obvious that there were better ways to sharpen, even with that awful jig.

He removed at least 1/8". Roughly 1/2 or more of the metal the blade had available. If you count how much that would cost on a $500+ pair of high end figure blades, the cost that place charges for sharpening - $5 - is a small fraction of the real total cost. Even on hockey blades, which cost roughly $50 each, it makes for a remarkably short blade lifetime.

I decided he might not be the best person to learn sharpening from.

But the point is, someone who isn't well trained, working with the cross grinder or with rental grit sharpening wheels, can mess up your blades rather quickly. It really isn't all that hard to mess things up.

[puppie96]

Thanks again for all of the feedback.  Christy, I just tried to get some full blade shots.  It was a little difficult because of the weird reflections from the blade as well as trying to get a straight down shot so it wouldn't be distorted.  Hopefully one of these will be helpful.  I did see the thread about your similar problem.

Making a tracing of the blades prior to the sharpening is a great idea.  I passed it along to my coach.  Wish I'd thought of it beforehand.

         

[AgnesNitt]

OMG I am so lucky with my sharpener, I am so lucky.

[Christy]

Looking at those pictures it's not surprising that you are falling backwards. You said there have been a few attempts to fix the blade - is that by different people or the person who did the original damage? If it was someone different what was their take on the damage? It sounds like you had a sharpener who did a good job before this happened - any chance they could take a look?

[puppie96]

A second person at the same place where the bad sharpening happened tried next and used the words "mangled" and "malpractice" to describe the work that had been done previously.

After that, when they still didn't feel right, I took them back to my usual sharpener, who said he would do his best and that they were very uneven.  Didn't help much.

[Query]

Those don't even look like the same blades. It looked like he destroyed one blade and found an old one in the trash and replaced it.

It's a little hard to tell from the picture, but if one blade is really thinner than the other, Agnes might be right. Removing a lot of metal is easy for an incompetent sharpener to do, but changing the thickness using a standard sharpening machine would require a very non-standard usage of that machine.

Can you see whether both blades are still labelled "MK Phantom", and both still have the fancy MK engraving?

However, if I remember right, MK Phantoms might have a dovetail shape (i.e., they are thicker at the bottom), so that removing metal at the bottom does change the thickness of what is in contact with the ice. If you have fancy calipers or a micrometer, you could use them to find out if the thickness is different at the chrome relief line (the line where the blade changes color, and below which becomes abruptly a little thinner), measuring at the same point along the blade, like under one of the stanchions. Regardless, the characteristics would change completely, and people typically throw dovetail blades out after relatively short lifetimes.

OTOH, maybe I am thinking of the "Phantom Special", which is different blade.

It is also quite possible that after sharpening by a drunken chimpanzee*, the bottom sides of your blades may not be symmetrical, and have very different side cutting on the two sides. They might also have a wavy thickness pattern at the bottom, which gets thin and thick in a complex pattern. You might see that by placing a straight edge against the bottom sides, and looking at the gaps.

I don't think your blades can be rescued, if you care much about how you skate. If you are done with them, perhaps the sharpener you trust will keep them, to show other customers why they should stay with him or her. A lot of sharpeners love to do that. 

Personally, I would be reluctant to trust high end blades with fancy side cutting to anyone but an extremely well-praised sharpener. Perhaps, in the future, you will too? Such blades are very difficult to deal with well, which is one of the reasons a lot of people use simpler shaped blades.

*No offense intended to sober chimpanzees.

[puppie96]

I really appreciated all of the comments about the blade problem, and I recently realized that I'd never given you all a follow-up on what happened with the sharpening and the trashed blades.

As I mentioned, management agreed that the sharpener had damaged the blades, but then dragged their feet about doing anything about it.  The bad sharpening happened on 2/2/15, and I posted these pictures on 3/23/15.  I didn't know what to do about getting anyone to remedy the situation and felt I needed some opinions about the blades from others with more experience.

I sent these pictures to the sharpener and to everyone in management and my email stirred up quite a ruckus.  I managed to pit them against each other.  It was that, combined with the implication that I would go public with names if they did nothing, that finally got some action.  They agreed to replace the blades.  I finally received them in late April, postmarked April 23, almost 3 months after the damage occurred.

Your comments and support were invaluable.  Whether or not the perpetrators read this forum directly, it gave me the confidence to stick up for myself, and that was priceless.

[Loops]

Awesome!  I'm sorry it took so long, but happy about the good results.  Enjoy the new blades!  And stick with your old sharpener....

[rd350]

Wow, that's a long time but good for you!  Happy you stood up for yourself and eventually got the result you wanted.  Assuming you told them NOT to sharpen the replacement....