Buying new blades . . . .what do you think?

[Query]

Wait, there's a proshop in Florida that carries Edeas!?

I think she means Tim Burt, who used to be viewed by many as the best skate technician (fitters/sharpeners) in Virginia (near DC). I think he moved to Florida quite recently.

[Neverdull44]

Sorry to take Tim from you!  You can plan a beach trip here, and visit him!

[Neverdull44]

Update. 

Boots:
I had some cramping in my feet/arches.  I took breaks and that helped me get over that.   My left instep's sore spot still hurt.  Deep edges, and it was excruciating.   I bought a small gel pad at the rink's Pro Shop, and it solved 85% of the issue.    I think my bone is sore, and the boot is fine.   

Blades:
Wow!!!  I am still learning the rocker, but did pretty good today.  I did two foot spins, a one foot spin, power threes, 5 step mohawk sequence, backwards outside figure eights.  forward inside and outside figure eights, inside three turns (at wall), and a waltz jump (at the wall).   All of this I did at a slower pace and with less oomph that I normally do.   But, I did them!    These blades feel wonderful and I can't wait until I get more used to them.  They turn so well, and I am not fighting my Moves in the Field.  Even on an outside backwards figure eight, it was strong & equal on each side.   Loved that!  But, I still couldn't do a t-stop.

[TropicalSk8ter]

I think she means Tim Burt, who used to be viewed by many as the best skate technician (fitters/sharpeners) in Virginia (near DC). I think he moved to Florida quite recently.

Me and my boyfriend just got boots and blades from Tim Burt and he REALLY does have impeccable customer service  skills.  He went above and beyond to make sure everything was ok with our fitting since him(us) and Jackson had an unbelievable unsatisfactory experience. Tim was so kind as to not charge us for new soakers and new rocker blade guards.  I rate Tim Burt as a 5 star skate technician!  Definitely the best in Florida and I wouldn't doubt in the U.S

[Loops]

Spent this morning "punching" out my skate.  All it took was a blow dryer and the handle end of a screwdriver and standing in them.  I'm hoping to go skating this afternoon's public session.  I'll take my tools with me.

So would you mind going into detail on how you did this??  I interperet: Open the skate all the way up, hit the spot on the outside with the hair dryer and rub with the screwdriver handle from the inside. ??  But then how did you stand in them, or does the leather stay hot enough for long enough or did you not need to tighten the laces??

I ask  because  I'm going to need to do this to my skates- they were punched out this summer and on my right foot (with the bunion) it's not enough.   And the reason it didn't work when the cobbler stretched them before is because neither he nor I knew they needed to be heated up first.  So new to this heat molding technology.....

TIA

[Neverdull44]

Edeas are meant to change with the heat of a hair dryer.  I heated up with an air dryer for about 5 minutes, moving it back & forth so as not to burn it.    Then, I put the screwdriver head where I wanted a punch and held it for about another 5 minutes.   Then, I put the boot on & lace it all up & stand in it.

Update:
Boots:   Achy, achy, achy, achy feet.   Had to take more breaks then yesterday.  About half my time is on the bench.   I really think it's my bad feet & arches just getting used to a new skate.  I always ached in my Harlicks, but just not to this extent.  One of our coaches uses Dr. Scholls high heel inserts.  I'm going to go try them or the hidden arch supports.    I'm also going to try some sports tape.
But, from reading posts on skiing boot, total achy issues, it could be that my feet muscles are really overworking in these boots because they and the blade are new.   I had plantar fascitius years ago, and it could be that too.  Or, it could be a little of both.   The pain is unbearable aches and cramps.

Blades:  Absolutely great.   Still getting used to the rocker, especially going backwards.  I scratch the toe.   So, I have to bend my knee more, then I don't scratch the toe pick.   Coach is going to do cartwheels on the ice when she sees my bent knees.   Spins feel great in them.  Did one foot scratch spins and a sit spin.  Also, did some little waltz jumps.   But my feet are hampered by the boots.   

[Loops]

Edeas are meant to change with the heat of a hair dryer.  I heated up with an air dryer for about 5 minutes, moving it back & forth so as not to burn it.    Then, I put the screwdriver head where I wanted a punch and held it for about another 5 minutes.   Then, I put the boot on & lace it all up & stand in it.

Thanks!  Hopefully it'll work with my Risports.  If not, I can live with it as is, but there's no way to get it punched out if I don't work out how to do it myself......  I really need to open the boot around the ball of my left foot. It's almost there.... 

Sorry the boots are being a drag.  Hopefully those inserts will work well for you.  Great news about the blades though, glad you're liking them!

[Neverdull44]

Boots:   Hell.  Edeas are hell right now.  45 minutes at the rink, spent 15 in the ice.  Had to get off three times to try different things.  Total foot & arch cramps, extremely bad pain.   

At first, I taped my arch and used a gel arch insert made by Dr. Scholls.   Did 5 laps, then the cramping began.  Did another three laps, then had to get off the ice.  I laid in agony.  Took off boots, and immediately better.  But boots back on and went on ice.  Tried to do power three turns, and absolutely had to get immediately off the ice due to foot cramping.

Second, with taped arches I used a hard insert for the arch.   Didn't get the boot strapped up and there was immediate cramping.  Took out everything, but left my foot taped.

Third, with just my foot taped, went out again on the ice.  My right boot was very loose on every hook.  I was stable, but no pain. I don't like the feel of loose boots.   I tightened it up a little bit.  A little bit of cramping.  Then, the session was over.

I am wondering if my boots are too tight at the bottom.  They don't feel it. 

Tomorrow is another day.

[Loops]

Oh man, poor you! Hopefully you have time for a nice footbath and someone to massage them.

I have issues with my Risports, as I mentioned earlier, they are too narrow over the balls of my feet (an issue I've had with every pair of skates I've owned).  I don't know if your issue might be similar or not, but I can't wear my skates for more than an hour, and if they're not on and then tied perfectly, it's agonizing.  I get cramping in the arches and pain on the heels and over the balls of my feet.  Maybe this will help you though: first and foremost, I make sure my heel is all the way back.  Then when I tie, I keep the laces very loose (just tight enough so they're not floppy) over the toes and beginning of the arch.  I only do the last two holes, right before the hooks, tight.  Then I do a half-knot, and crank the hooks as tight as humanely possible,  I do another half knot at the top, and then go back down the hooks, cranking even further down on the laces.  My fingers often bleed during the tightening.  It has taken a lot of experimenting, and retying on the ice to get to something that works OK. 

How far away is the Edea fitter?  Might they have some insight?  Isn't it amazing how something that can feel OK or even good in the store, and still OK first couple times on the ice can suddenly turn so evil?  I hope this is just a break-in situation for you and that it will be over soon.  Good luck!

[Neverdull44]

Guess what happened?   They fit and didn't hurt hardly at all!    What did I do differently?  I loosened the laces down to the toe and retied up how Edea likes you to tie them.  I think I must have somehow tightened everything up too much.  Yeah!!!

[AgnesNitt]

Guess what happened?   They fit and didn't hurt hardly at all!    What did I do differently?  I loosened the laces down to the toe and retied up how Edea likes you to tie them.  I think I must have somehow tightened everything up too much.  Yeah!!!

This is like calling IT support and they tell you to do a hard reboot and it fixes everything. 

[Query]

If the blades are still too sharp, ask Tim to dull them a bit - or do it yourself. Sharpness and ROH aren't exactly the same thing.

BTW, if you stay with 1/2" hollow, you can buy relatively inexpensive used Berghman hand sharpeners ($5-$25) on eBay, that are adjustable enough to handle Matrix blades. (But the oldest 1930's era sharpeners had rather crumbly abrasive stones.)

But sharpening yourself always has to be done carefully, to make sure you don't mess things up. E.g., be sure to record the profile first, make sure your edges are even, and tape the toe pick so you don't accidentally dull it. Tape the part that slides along the blade too, so it doesn't scratch the sides of the blade.

[Loops]

Guess what happened?   They fit and didn't hurt hardly at all!    What did I do differently?  I loosened the laces down to the toe and retied up how Edea likes you to tie them.  I think I must have somehow tightened everything up too much.  Yeah!!!

YAY!!!  Tying is EVERYTHING, isn't it?!

[Neverdull44]

Update:  Stretched the skate just a tad near the balls of my feet on both sides, and it was much better skate.  Didn't fall asleep or go numb.    Still have a sore spot on my right inside foot, that I am dealing with.  It makes an inside edge hurt.  If it still hurts tomorrow, then I'm going to have to stretch that one little spot a tad more.

Blades, I am getting used to. 

Did  sit spins, back spins, scratch spins, loop jumps, and salchow jumps.  Not as great as they were before, but I did several revolutions and it was clean.   

I tried a camel spin.  The boots are so light, that I over muscled the camel entrance/first revolution because I am used to more weight.    That led to my toe.   The rest of the times trying, I have lost where to spin and the whole timing on the first revolution getting set into position.   I tried pulling back on the blade, but ended up with a ski effect.   The change in the rocker is so dramatic, that my wonderful camel spin has vanished.   That gives me something to work on.

[TropicalSk8ter]

Update:  Stretched the skate just a tad near the balls of my feet on both sides, and it was much better skate.  Didn't fall asleep or go numb.

We are on the concertos, me and my partner's big toe gets numb completely. After you took it to get it stretched, would you say it stop numbing your toe completely?

[Neverdull44]

Boots:

Yes, I am no longer numb in my boot since last weekends stretching near the front/ball/big toe/little toe areas of the boots.  What we did was to mark it on the outside, heat with a blow dryer on the outside of the boot for 10 minutes, and then stretch it slightly, and then stand in it for 20 or so minutes.   

I have an ankle bump that I am going to stretch this morning.  I still have a little bit of arch cramping about 10 minutes into skating.  I had this with my Harlicks too.   I get over it in about 3 minutes, and then am perfect for skating.  I had very bad plantar fascitius several years ago, and I don't think that tendon is still 100% today and that is what causes me the temporary arch cramping.  Only when I get the luxury to skate 10+ hours a week does it go away.

Blades:
Backspins are getting stronger.  Did backwards outside and backwards inside figure eights, and they felt good but were not perfect by any means.   Moves in the field are coming along.   Scratch and sit spins are awesome in this new blade.  Waltz jumps are totally awesome.  Did some three blade length loop jumps today, but two footed those (grr).

Camel isn't there yet.  I am falling on my inside on the camel.  If I put alot of pressure on my outside hand/arm, then it gets a little better and I try to point the toe of my free leg.  Everything is now locking, but even with all of this . . .  I am still falling onto my inside of the camel.  Trying to figure it out.
   

[Neverdull44]

UPdate!!!! 

Skated WITHOUT pain or cramping.  Did a final bumpout over the weekend and am home free!  Love the boots & blades now.

[skategeek]

Yay!!!

[Loops]

UPdate!!!! 

Skated WITHOUT pain or cramping.  Did a final bumpout over the weekend and am home free!  Love the boots & blades now.

Yay!!!!  Very very nice.

[Query]

It feels so wonderful when the pain goes away!

You are so very lucky that you had someone like Tim Burt to help you. A lot of skaters never find a skate technician who knows what they are doing, and remain in pain.

Your solution to stretch the leather using the handle of a screw driver together with the hair drier was quite innovative. Was that your idea?

I confess that I bought a purpose-built tool to do the same on mine. Your solution is so much more elegant, for those cases where you don't need to clamp the tool in place for a greater stretch. I will add it to my page on modifying boots, and credit you with the idea.

[Christy]

UPdate!!!! 

Skated WITHOUT pain or cramping.  Did a final bumpout over the weekend and am home free!  Love the boots & blades now.

Yippee.
Especially as I'm about to try the same combination 

[Neverdull44]

The screwdriver idea was more of Tim Burt's ok.  You should get Tim's ok before posting he was in agreement.  I didn't want to drive back 100 miles, for a minor adjustment.

My husband also used a workbench/clamp for the harder areas, like the ball of the boot.   That is still a good idea.  We did a bit of stretching using it.

This boot and blade combination MAKES you bend your knees for backwards anything.  Because I am tipped forward in the boot due to the higher heel and I now have a rocker, it's super easy to scratch my toe pick . . . .unless I bend in my knees and ankles.  Coaches are all about bending those knees!  Today's lesson was getting me to totally stop scratching my toe pick.  And, I'm still going too much on my toe in a camel spin, and falling over the inside edge.  Today's lesson was also about that too.

But, other things are actually getting to feel alot better in these new boots and blades (scratch, sit spin, back spin, waltz jump landings, salchow felt high and great today).   Even did a cannonball spin today and got real low on my sit spin.   

So, I'll figure it out while the coach is away to take another student to regionals,  I'm going to work real hard to impress her next week!

[Casey]

Because they are so flat, I am leaning towards going up to  8' rocker.  I think going back to a 7' rocker is going to feel weird. Anyone measured worn out blades?   But, I worry that, "Will I be able to skate on an 8?" "They" say that an 8' is for advanced skaters.   I don't do doubles.  I am 45 years young.   I am working on adding loops after every jump, and am on my axel journey.   Some days, I have a 6 revolution camel, but most days it is 3.  I am working on my flying camel (3 revolutions).  My sit spins are strong, and I like to pull back on the blade.   I have a pretty good backspin, even the kids complement me on it.

I read the kudos on parabolic blades, and how they center your balance.   That sounds great because loops in footwork and brackets on a straight line are not the most fun.   But, I've only skated on parallel blades.  Anyone skate switch to parabolic, what was the learning curve?  And, I'm afraid to get an expensive blade.  I think our pro shop would butcher it.   Are parabolics easier to butcher?

I've shared my story elsewhere recently, but in brief, I got high-end skates within a month or two of first skating at the age of 24 - Graf Edmonton boots with Gold Star blades (7' rocker).  I didn't dislike those skates, but I skated hard and after a year the boots were done for in dire need of replacement, so I went all out and in addition to switching to Klingbeil boots, I switched to Gold Seals (8' rocker).  It was a very positive transition!  After I got through the ankle bone pains of breaking in the boots, I found everything on the Gold Seals to be much better.  I more than doubled the number of revolutions I could do in a spin (maximum I got on video was 40 revolutions), and centered much better.  I've never managed an axel but I did get pretty good at all the other single jumps.  Both sets of skates were big investments but I loved skating and it really wasn't that much over the course of time compared to rink fees.

But I think there's more to blades than the rocker measurement - the profile on the front in particular can vary between different models, and how low the toe pick comes down.  What blade is best probably depends a lot on the skater, and the tiny differences between how different boots align your foot (a few millimeters adjustment in heel height might change the position on the blade you comfortably spin on).  I've heard that there can also be a lot of variance between different copies of the same blades from the same manufacturer.  Also a lot can probably be compensated for by a skilled skater.

Those skates which I loved ended up stolen, and I replaced them with another set of Klingbeils but with Paramount 440 blades, which are also an 8' rocker.  It's not the same.  I cannot center spins very often on these blades, and I think a simple psychological effect of not liking the appearance as much as the traditional style blade affects me too if I'm really honest about it.  I don't think they're bad blades, but they're not the same, and I intend on going back to Gold Seals at some point.

I wish blades were like golf clubs, where you could try them.  Don't want to make a several hundred dollar mistake.

I think 8' rockers are great, but it's a personal opinion.  Unfortunately the only thing we can do is spend money and play the trial-and-error game.  I would likely be happy with a lower level blade but I don't really want to waste time finding out - I know Gold Seals work well for me so when I have the money for another pair of skates that's what I plan to get.  A few hundred dollars might be wasted if a cheaper set would work equally well for me, but I won't lose any sleep over that.  That said, I'm sure most people think I'm crazy for buying such high-end skates at a low level, and they are quite likely correct, but I'm okay with that.

My husband is an engineer and rebuilds cars.  He can do anything mechanical.  Should I have him spend $5,000 on a sharpening system?  Anyone ever learned how to do blades from scratch?  Seems extreme,  but . . . the whole family skates.   I  had a GREAT, independent skate sharpener, but he moved away. :-(

Personally, I like to use a hand sharpening stone - I used to have one that was a teardrop shape like the one on the upper left of this picture:



You can do a fair bit with the stone without doing much to the blade, because it does not take very much metal off.  I would hand sharpen them frequently because I really liked the nice crisp "just sharpened" feeling, and would only go to a really good sharpener that was a couple hours' drive away a few times a year, mainly because I didn't trust that I wasn't screwing up my ROH or evenness between sides slowly over time.  As hand sharpening does not remove much metal it extends the life of the blades significantly.  I would even do a hand sharpening immediately after each machine sharpening, because it would remove a very slight ripple pattern that the machine would leave (you can see and feel this after a machine sharpening).  I would feel really leery of using a machine myself though I'm mechanically-inclined, at least with expensive blades.  A mistake can be made with a machine in a few seconds that would take hours to do with hand sharpening.  What I think you should do regardless is take a careful tracing and pictures of your blades when they are new, and compare your blades to the original tracing after each sharpening to make sure the profile hasn't been changed.

[Query]

What is the advantage of the "teardrop" shape stone, as opposed to a cylinder? Is it easier to handle with precision?

The hand sharpeners I've tried use a cylindrical stone (the radius becomes the ROH), and have handles that help you center the stone on the blade. I tried sharpening without the handle, but couldn't produce clean edges.

[Casey]

What is the advantage of the "teardrop" shape stone, as opposed to a cylinder? Is it easier to handle with precision?

The hand sharpeners I've tried use a cylindrical stone (the radius becomes the ROH), and have handles that help you center the stone on the blade. I tried sharpening without the handle, but couldn't produce clean edges.

I don't know how to compare, it's the only one I ever had/used.  It was easy to hold on to, and I would also occasionally use that flat edges against the outside facets of the blade if there was a nick protruding out.  In my case the round end was much smaller than the ROH, maybe a quarter inch.  So I would hold it vertical to the blade to grind down the center a bit, then work on each side individually by slanting the stone a bit towards and holding it against one edge at a time.  With this approach maintenance of ROH was guesswork but as I wasn't removing much metal it worked out well.  I used a small square to check evenness between sides, but my skating would slowly cause unevenness more than sharpening.

I also used to prefer a deep ROH - usually I had 5/16" but I think once I even tried 1/4".  On the paramounts I can't do that, and even the standard 7/16" feels too sharp after years since they were last sharpened (granted I've skated only occasionally in that time).  I don't know if that's due to different steel or profile or what.  When I got the paramounts they didn't have different profile options so I'm not sure what they are closest to.

P.S. Query, which rink(s) do you skate at?  I'm also in Maryland.  Not skating very much (or well at all) these days but maybe I'll get back into it soon.  Also moving from Frederick to somewhere closer to Columbia in January, so I imagine I will frequent the Columbia and Laurel rinks.