ISI vs USFSA

[johnallocca]

What is the difference between the ISI and the USFSA? Why join either or both?

John

[AgnesNitt]

I'm going to blogroll the basic skills program differences, but others will have more detailed information.

http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2012/01/isi-weskate-vs-usfsa-basic-skills.html

[axelwylie]

I have skated in both and liked AgnesNitt's blog post.

Obviously there are pros and cons to both systems. ISI seems more focused on recreation whereas USFSA is more focused on testing. I skated ISI as a child and thought I got a good basis for skating.

The rink I am at now is USFSA. There is still a lot of basic skills being taught but it's not as... Fun?

The official testing systems also differ. If you choose to test, ISI used to have your coach act as the sole judge (not sure if this is still the case). In USFSA, you test before a panel of judges and things are more formal.

I would focus on which rink makes you most comfortable and figure or which coaching staff you like better. Curriculum-wise, you can't go wrong with either.

[johnallocca]

I'm going to blogroll the basic skills program differences, but others will have more detailed information.

http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2012/01/isi-weskate-vs-usfsa-basic-skills.html

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This is an interesting blog. My rink has both USFSA and ISI coaching. I've been away from skating for 12 years. I skated for 2 years before that. I took all the ISI tests to and including freestyle 1 before knee problems.

I'm a member of ISI and USFSA.

I'm a recreational skater. I should probably just stick with ISI for competitions? My old coach is still teaching at my rink (Dix Hills Rink). She's great. I will continue with her.

Now, if Riedell would move a little faster with my custom boots, I can get on the rink (5 week wait. One down, 4 to go.)

John

[nicklaszlo]

If you choose to test, ISI used to have your coach act as the sole judge (not sure if this is still the case). In USFSA, you test before a panel of judges and things are more formal.

In both systems, the judging panel requirements vary by level.

[jbruced]

Piggybacking on the OP's 2nd question; besides testing and/or competition, is there any benefit to joining either ISI or USFSA?

[nicklaszlo]

Piggybacking on the OP's 2nd question; besides testing and/or competition, is there any benefit to joining either ISI or USFSA?

You get the magazine.

USFS members get a discount on ice network, etc.
http://www.usfsa.org/About.asp?id=6
http://www.skateisi.com/site/Sub.Cfm?Content=membership_individual

Typically members are also associated with a local club/rink.  That may be helpful. 

Coaches need certain memberships to coach at events.

Apparently some shows require membership to participate.

I would not join if I were not testing or competing.

[nicklaszlo]

I'm a recreational skater. I should probably just stick with ISI for competitions?

If you say you are "recreational", some people might think that means you do not compete.

[Query]

To some extent it depends on how you learn.

In practice, most people take lessons from whichever rink is most convenient - and most rinks only teach one organization's group lessons. For most beginners, traveling to a distant rink makes no sense. On top of that, the match between your learning style and the teaching style of the coach often matters more than exactly what is taught.

Almost everyone needs to learn from a coach who is good at both demonstrating and explaining, at least in part. But a lot of us adults can't learn well unless we can read about the skills too, and watch videos.

ISI sells to its members (and membership is cheap) a fairly complete Handbook and DVD. So if you are to some extent into self-study, that helps.

USFSA (also called USFS) doesn't sell much of anything useful to skaters, and even the "Basic Skill Instructor's Manual" has this skating season become largely useless (because they no longer explain how to do most skills), though it used to be more useful. Their Basic Skills DVD is somewhat useful. Toth the manual and the DVD are only available to registered Basic Skills instructors. The USFSA has a lot of technical information on the WWW useful to people who want to stay eligible to compete within USFSA and ISU, but relatively little that is particularly useful to skaters - and the few words that are useful, are stuffed in the middle of 10's or 100's of thousands of words about maintaining eligibility, and other rules having little to do with how to skate.

To me that makes ISI's methodology overwhelmingly better than USFSA. But if you don't learn that way, it may not matter.

The intro USFSA sets of classes are about learning skills like "Marching" which have nothing to do with skating. If you start with ISI alpha level skating, your first lesson with ISI will include skating, which is, quite frankly, scarcely more difficult to learn than trying to march on the ice. Even if you choose the slow route, and start with "ISI pre-alpha", you won't waste time learning to march. ISI pretty much immediately starts off with real skating skills, though both USFSA and ISI . USFSA tries to justify its slow start-up in terms of getting people to understand the idea of shifting your weight from foot to foot, and understanding what uses edges means - but most USFSA coaches don't actually explain those things in their group lessons, so the very slow startup seem pointless.

As an adult, you may find learning with kids a bit frustrating, and may prefer the adult classes, though at most rinks, adult classes span a fairly large range of customer skill levels. And both ISI and USFSA lessons were really crafted for the learning styles of kids, even if you take the adult classes, in the sense that they assume you have a very short attention span - so instead of learning one skill at a time until you master it, like you would in PSIA ski lessons, which are much better organized, they shove a whole bunch of skills at the class, spending 2 - 4 three minutes total / skill / class, which also means that instructors spend more time babysitting and entertaining the customers than teaching. They repeat the same bunch of skills every week, never covering the skills in sufficient detail to really understand them. In addition, the nominal teaching styles of both organizations are aimed at "monkey-see, monkey-do" learning styles, without much explanation, which style works for some people, especially young children and some dancers, but which works less well for many adults. Those issues are part of why the self-study issue is important to some of us, and the availability of that is so much a part of why I think ISI is better.

I stopped taking private lessons for various reasons, mostly economic. I'm taking a group lesson adult class, taught by my most recent private coach, whose teaching style I like a lot. There are 5-6 people in each class - pretty small, and she tries to spend a few minutes with each student, in part because the class spans such a range of skill levels. But she has so little time to teach each student, that it is very frustrating. She doesn't really have time to spend analyzing each student's issues. Group lessons make a lot of economic sense, but if you can afford it, private lessons from a really good coach who teaches in the style that you learn best are a lot more efficient use of your time.

Hope that helps.

As you can see from the responses, I'm prejudiced towards ISI - but not everyone agrees.

[lovemyskater]

My DD started at a ISI rink, and spent 2 weeks learning to march march march glide in a huge Pre-Alpha class where the kids where all over the place crashing into each other, etc. By the end of the two weeks she was starting to swizzle.

We found the other rink in town, which is an USFSA rink.  I have seen their beginner classes and maybe it's the coach/rink difference but they may march for one lesson, but they seemed to move through the basics and "start skating" much faster than the Pre-Alpha class did at the other rink.  But this might just be the two rinks in MY area.

[blue111moon]

I think you really need to check out the programs in your area because they vary - a lot.  My rink has both ISI and USFS.  The rink runs ISI (loosely) because tISI insurance is cheaper for them so if you're going to skate on rink-run sessions - either group lessons or "practice time" you have to have ISI membership.  Currently the only freestyle sessions at the rink are run by the USFS club so if you don't want to skate with a million barely-can-stand-up kids, and can't make the morning public sessions, that's the only place to work on jumps, spins and programs. 

Both groups run learn-to-skate programs.  The club one follows USFS Basic Skills guidelines, all the coaches are registered, insured and required to attend PSA and USFS seminars to keep skills up.  The groups are small (less than 10) and split by skill level rather than age.    Testing to pass the class levels is done every six weeks by either the class coach or the skating director.  Skaters get badges and a skills book to measure their progress.  On the whole it's a structured, cohesive program aimed at teaching technique behind the skills.

In contrast the rink ISI program is run by a "regional director" who is only at the rink during class time.  They put over 150 skater on the ice at once, in groups of 12 to 15 by age, and except for the director, none of the instructors are professionals; they're either rink guards or older skaters being paid minimum wage.    The goal of the program is to teach the skaters enough so that they don't kill themselves or anyone else on public skating.  It's up to the instructors to figure out how to do that because there is no instructor education.  The director hand picks her own "advanced class".  There is no testing done that I have seen;  skaters may get a photocopied "Certificate of Acheivement"  but not always.  In short, it's not a well-run program.

To be fair, I've seen some wonderfully well-run ISI programs - in other rinks.  And I know some coaches who teach both systems quite happily.  But generally, looking at the quality of the skaters that come out of each program, I think it's pretty obvious that, while ISI may produce more skaters in any given year, USFS produces better skaters. 

So if you have the choice, then you need to decide on your goals and which program meets them.  I've done both and I prefer the USFS approach.  But each to his/her own.  The main point is to find where you fit and what works for you.

[nicklaszlo]

I think it is outrageous the ISI still charges for its manual.

The free USFS rulebook is very well written and organized.  It is not a "learn to skate" book though.  If you plan to test it is invaluable.

[WaltzJump413]

I'm in ISI and my rink has a very good program (all coaches must reach Gold level to teach there). We test every 7/8 weeks with ribbons or badges. It's very well organized.

I haven't had experience with USFSA, though.

[Gabby on Ice]

I test and compete with USFSA, but I don't know much about ISI. But I do know that ISI is recreational, while USFS is more competitive.