New skates!! WOW!!!

[dlbritton]

(I hope it is okay to start a new topic as a continuation of my post "Boot for adult beginner with wide feet")

Took the new skates out for public skate today. WOW!!  Used them for the first time in LTS class last night.

Forward outside edges were great. I have been able to do them in rental boots but never with great confidence. I could really tell how hip position affected direction. I was able to do change of edge on left foot several times. I am definitely stronger with my left foot.

Backwards outside edges for the first time. I have been struggling with backward straight glides, I could do them well enough for Adult 2 but could not get an outside edge. Today they just happened.  I was able to hold a LBO for 180 degrees. RBO not as much but I have confidence that will come real soon.

And this is on factory edges, temporary mount -no tweaking yet - but may not need any, no heat mold yet.

Riedell 255TS 9 Wide Mens with Jackson Ultima Aspire XP 10 3/4" blade.

[Loops]

Nice!!!  Great that it feels so good.  Proper skates make a world of difference, eh!  Congratulations.

[sarahspins]

What a great update

Blade alignment is fairly easy to sort out, but it can be trickier when the skills requires to evaluate it are still fairly new.  Occasionally you get lucky and the blades don't need to be moved at all.

Basically forward one foot glides help you figure out the alignment for the back of the blade (you'd adjust the heel plate), and backward one foot glides help you figure out the front of the blade (you'd adjust the sole plate).  You would know they need to be moved based on feeling like the blade is "pulling" you to one side consistently, when everything else is lined up correctly (weight over skating side, etc).  Skaters who are jumping and spinning can often tell if a blade is "off" based on how they feel doing those elements, but the same glides are used to evaluate position. I would caution you before making any adjustments though, that a small change can make a fairly large difference, so if you do feel like a blade needs to be moved, move it only a very tiny amount (half a millimeter at most), and skate on it a while before moving it again.  You could also enlist the help of your group coach for checking alignment, and I would recommend this since you're so new to skating and this is your first pair of skates (mostly because they will be able to tell to some degree if you have a body alignment issue or if it is really the skate blade) - if you have the opportunity in class, that would be great, otherwise a 15 minute private lesson would offer ample time to check the blades.  The alignment may not get dialed in with just one check either - sometimes it takes a little time after moving the blade to figure out if that was enough or not.

As long as you are not jumping there's really no rush to get the blades permanently mounted - if you are sure they are where you want them, you can go for it, but if you are unsure, as long as you check that your blades are not loose before you skate, there is really no worry and you can pretty much take as long as you need to.

[dlbritton]

You could also enlist the help of your group coach for checking alignment, and I would recommend this since you're so new to skating and this is your first pair of skates (mostly because they will be able to tell to some degree if you have a body alignment issue or if it is really the skate blade) - if you have the opportunity in class, that would be great, otherwise a 15 minute private lesson would offer ample time to check the blades.  The alignment may not get dialed in with just one check either - sometimes it takes a little time after moving the blade to figure out if that was enough or not.

As long as you are not jumping there's really no rush to get the blades permanently mounted - if you are sure they are where you want them, you can go for it, but if you are unsure, as long as you check that your blades are not loose before you skate, there is really no worry and you can pretty much take as long as you need to.

I will be working with the fitter, who also gives private lessons, for the blade alignment. I figured I would just get out and skate them for a while before making any adjustments. So far they seem to be set well. I can easily glide straight forward on either foot. I am able to do fairly straight backwards left foot glides and can hold a LBO edge very well. My back right glides are not as strong and my RBO is definitely sketchy. But this is the first time I have been able to go more than about 5 feet on a backward one foot glide so I still need to work on that skill set before making any adjustments to the blade. I spoke to one of the coaches that is demo'ing jumps and spins to the freestyle students and she is actually on a temporary mount. She said she checks the screws regularly and is getting a permanent mount soon. I do stand slightly on the inside of my feet, so I may need to adjust for that. In fact I am having shims put in my ski boots to correct a 1 1/2 degree "overedge" on my skis.

I just got back from Adult only skate and continue to amaze myself. Pretty much nailed hockey stops pivoting to the left at moderate speed, pivot to right is weaker. 2 foot turns definitely improved but I still feel like they are too slow. I don't snap around, it is more of a pivot on a flat inside skate and feels like the kind of "turn" I would do on skis (where you don't generally snap anything around quickly).

One thing I am noticing is that some maneuvers seem easier from backwards than forwards.  After a 2 foot turn from forward to back it is easier to turn from back to forwards than it was to go from forward to back. I can't really go from a backward glide to forwards yet though. I can do a backwards 1 revolution spin (or approximation of one) but cannot do a forward spin. Backward pivot seemed easier as well. I may have an advantage of being comfortable going backwards because many of my ski lessons consist of me skiing backwards down the hill facing my students. We also practice 360 degree spins and pivot slips where you rotate your skis 180 degrees under your torso while facing straight down the slope.

[icedancer]

One thing I am noticing is that some maneuvers seem easier from backwards than forwards.  After a 2 foot turn from forward to back it is easier to turn from back to forwards than it was to go from forward to back. I can't really go from a backward glide to forwards yet though. I can do a backwards 1 revolution spin (or approximation of one) but cannot do a forward spin. Backward pivot seemed easier as well. I may have an advantage of being comfortable going backwards because many of my ski lessons consist of me skiing backwards down the hill facing my students. We also practice 360 degree spins and pivot slips where you rotate your skis 180 degrees under your torso while facing straight down the slope.

It is so great that you are enjoying your new skates!

It sounds to me as though your right leg, etc., may be a little "weaker" than your left - this is of course totally normal - we all find that there are things that are much easier on one side than the other - and are constantly working our "bad" side to make it better and maybe maybe maybe get it equal to the "good" side - but mostly I think we just try to make it more comfortable.

I also think that if you talk to most skaters (real skaters) they find going backwards much easier than going forwards.  I know I do.

I don't know why this is - I think it has something to do with the way you position your weight going backwards... for you of course skiing backwards may have something to do with it (I can't imagine skiing forwards much less backwards!!).

I have also heard that some people just can't ever be comfortable going backwards - it sounds like you don't fit into that category! (It's like people who can roll their tongues and those that cannot under any circumstance roll their tongues!).

[dlbritton]

I have a question about "the physics" of turns. I am still perfecting my 2 foot turns and haven't really done any 1 foot turns, but I put about 80% of my weight on one foot when I am turning. The main turn I am doing is from a (predominate) LFO edge to a LBI edge (sort of a 3 turn) but to turn I flatten the blade and pivot about 120 degrees then go to the back inside edge with my weight about 60/40 on the 2 skates. This results in a smeared 3 turn. I can do the same from inside edges to outside edges on either foot, but with more smearing of the pivot. The pivot is more of a slow rotation (120 degree spin) rather than a quick snap around.

Does a proper 3 turn (or other types of 1 foot turns)  go through a flat pivot like I describe or is this a bad habit I need to avoid "perfecting"?

[icedancer]

It sounds to me like you are skidding through the turn - this could be because in a proper one-foot turn, all of your weight should be over the skating hip/foot/knee - and with the other foot on the ice, even if you are just "tracking" with it for balance, you can't get the whole weight over the skating foot. That is okay - I might try this myself tomorrow to see what happens if I try to do a three-turn on two feet...

But you might also be experiencing the downside of the "factory-sharpening" in that they are really not all that sharp, albeit sharper than the rentals you were using before no doubt.

[sarahspins]

Does a proper 3 turn (or other types of 1 foot turns)  go through a flat pivot like I describe or is this a bad habit I need to avoid "perfecting"?

No, not really.. the skid normally happens when the turn itself isn't performed quickly enough, OR when it's done with the weight too far back on the blade.  On a forward turn the weight should be on the ball of the foot, the actual turn will happen on the "spin rocker", which is the curvier front part of the blade before the toe picks.  The mechanics of all turns are the same whether they are done on one foot or two.  Even on dull blades, when done correctly there should be no skidding through the turn.

That said, for a beginner, skidding isn't exactly the worst thing - you are at least turning, which is better than not being able to complete the turn at all and doing a small u-turn (which seems to be VERY common with kids and adults in LTS at my rink).  As you get more comfortable in your skates and gain some confidence on the ice you will probably see an improvement in your turns

[dlbritton]

No, not really.. the skid normally happens when the turn itself isn't performed quickly enough,

I believe this is what is happening. I don't really pop up and snap around for the turn, it is more of a flat spin. But I am getting the feel of the rotation and changing edges now. On rental skates I could get on a forward edge but never felt comfortable finishing the turn onto a backwards edge.

I am getting my weight on the spin rocker for the turn.

LTS lessons are finished until January so I may sign up for some private lessons between now and Christmas. Problem is very few of the coaches are around at lunch when I can get in.

[ONskater74]

Congrats on the new skates. You're sort of where I was  a few years ago. Keep working on the turns. if you scour the internet videos you will find lots of footage of various turns. I'm very much a look see, monkey-see-monkey-do learner. "Just show me and I'll copy you exactly" .

Pretty soon you'll be stringing together threes, brackets, counters, rockers, mohawks, choctaws...
Turns are just another way to go change direction with or without changing edge. threes and brackets involve a change of edge during the change of direction, counters and rockers maintain the same edge during the change of direction. Crisp clean quiet turns are everyone's goal. 

[dlbritton]

Just had the blades sharpened. After talking to the sharpener I went with a 7/16" ROH. I can definitely hold edges better but can't "cheat" on my 2 foot turns now. He uses a small wheel and can take the edge much closer to the toe pick than the factory edge so I don't have a flat spot to pivot on.

I noticed I rock up to the toe pick more easily now but I presume I will adjust to this. He said I will appreciate the edge when I start working on 3 turns.

Any comments on the above? What the sharpener told me seems logical but I really don't know.

[icedancer]

Well, I still think you should have gone with the 1/2" but that is a moot point now!!

It takes a while to get used to a new sharpening - for anyone - so you may have a different experience the next time you work with them and you will probably get used to it.

I have never heard of sharpening the area behind the toe picks - you don't need to rock up there to do a 3-turn as the turn is done on the rocker itself (well, it should happen like that anyway) -

You are on your way - glad you like your new skates!

[dlbritton]

I have never heard of sharpening the area behind the toe picks - you don't need to rock up there to do a 3-turn as the turn is done on the rocker itself (well, it should happen like that anyway) -

You are on your way - glad you like your new skates!

I think your point about not rocking up toward the toe pick is how I was "cheating" on the turns. Before I was able to get on the perfectly flat part of the blade and just skid it around. Now that I have edges further up I am going to have to make a correct turn on the rocker. I think he just gets closer to the toe pick. There is still a flat area just behind the toe pick, it is just smaller than before.

I don't know if my improved edging is mainly from the slightly deeper radius or from very sharp edges but I do like the feel of control I have now. I was able to make changes of edge on either foot, not great form I am sure, but I was still able to get the feel of the weight shift to go from edge to edge. Right back edges felt much stronger today. Interestingly I didn't have as much trouble holding a large curve on inside edges. Before I would sort of spiral into a very small diameter circle on inside edges but today I was able to hold a larger arc on the curve.

I plan to go skiing this weekend and am really interested to see how skating will affect my skiing. On a different forum another ski instructor has been writing about his experiences taking up figure skating this year. He just posted that he has been skiing twice this season and has noticed a big difference in his skiing.

[ONskater74]

7/16 seems pretty radical to me.   

I like my 3/4. started out on 5/8 and switched on the second sharpening to 3/4. I have lots of bite leaning into a turn and lots of easy flow elsewhere. I don;t slip at all. Maybe I will revise my views later on, but 3 years on now I'm happy with what I'm using. I have Ultima Mirage blades and they really keep an edge for a long time.