Two step sequences for men's FS?

[sampaguita]

When I watch ladies FS, I can easily recognize which part is the step sequence and which are just transitions. For men's FS, though, I see TWO step sequences, usually one near the end and one in the middle. The sequences seem to be of the same length. Is that right? Or is only one of them going to be considered as the step sequence?

[Skittl1321]

The second is only scored for choreographic purposes, no levels

[sampaguita]

Does it always have to be the 1st step sequence that is considered? Or do they just consider whichever is more difficult? I mean, if you want to do the step sequence at the second half of the program, won't that get more points?

[Skittl1321]

I'm pretty sure it has to be the 1st.

I remember a coach at our rink had his "leveled" sequence called a 1 at sectionals, since they called some connecting steps 'footwork' and then his intended footwork (which was clearly marked on the planned program sheet) got him some great +GOE but wasn't scored as a level, since it was the second sequence it was the choroegraphic sequence.

I remember thinking this was dumb, because the whole point of a choreographic step sequence is that it should match the music really well, and here the ISU is forcing it to go second, regardless of the music.  But I guess since you don't have to follow your planned program sheet this way the judges don't have to guess your intention, and the computer doesn't have to be programmed to take the higher of the two scores (which doesn't seem like it would work anyway because then if you mess up the first one the second would be a "second chance"- and so it wouldn't be choreographed to be choreographic but rather to be L4 just in case the first one didn't get called that way.)

[sampaguita]

Hmm still weird for me...I don't really understand why it HAS to be the 1st sequence that will be considered as the step sequence.

Why don't the ladies do this anyway? Is it because they don't have enough time in their FS?

[FigureSpins]

Hmm still weird for me...I don't really understand why it HAS to be the 1st sequence that will be considered as the step sequence.

Why don't the ladies do this anyway? Is it because they don't have enough time in their FS?

The ISU specified that 2012-13 well-balanced Senior Freeskate programs will include a Step Sequence and a Choreographic Sequence.  Ladies have to include a spiral in their Choreo sequence, but men do not. 

The ISU also specified that the Step Sequence must be executed first in the program.  Doing the Choreo Sequence first will result in its being called as Transitions.  The tech geek in me says that it has something to do with the scoring software program, but I'm suspicious that way.  Might just be that they wanted to see the Step Sequences early in the program, before the skater starts to get tired.

In Senior Single Free Skating the Technical Panel will first identify the Step Sequence and only after this sequence is performed will look for and identify the Choreographic Sequence. If a skater performs their Choreo Sequence prior to the Step Sequence, it will be considered a series of Transitions. 

Important to note that Choreo Sequences can include listed jumps, which will be "identified and occupy jumping boxes," even though the sequence itself does not have a value.


Source: http://www.usfsa.org/content/First%20Aid%20Singles.pdf


As to why the Senior Mens Freeskate programs are more obviously including two sequences, my guess would be that they need a breather during their program so that they conserve energy for the second half.  It's difficult for them to get power from the Choreo sequence steps for their jumps, so they mostly perform footwork in the second sequence.  The ladies choreo sequences, because they have to include the spiral, probably aren't as obvious to you, but they have to include it or they'd lose points. My guess would be the Ladies perform more artistic elements than the Men.

Why don't you try checking the ISU Protocols?  It takes a bit of effort to learn the coding and methodology, but it sounds like you'd be intrigued by the challenge.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-182502-199720-nav-list,00.html
(Click on the "Protocols" links to see how each skater was scored.)

[sampaguita]

ADD: Now that I remember it, ladies used to have a SPIRAL sequence -- is the choreographic sequence the replacement for this?

Source: http://www.usfsa.org/content/First%20Aid%20Singles.pdf

FigureSpins! Thank you so much for this. I found this a very interesting read (and now I ask myself why didn't I bother to find this?). Now I understand the difference between the step and choreo sequences. Based on the pdf, I think the reason why they specify the order is just to make it easier for the judges to spot which one is which.

Why don't you try checking the ISU Protocols?  It takes a bit of effort to learn the coding and methodology, but it sounds like you'd be intrigued by the challenge.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-182502-199720-nav-list,00.html
(Click on the "Protocols" links to see how each skater was scored.)

Hmmm the link here takes me to the ISU calendar of events -- I tried to look for it in other links in this page but couldn't find it:

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-128610-129918-nav-list,00.html