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Author Topic: Music with words and costumes with mesh  (Read 1634 times)

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Offline hopskipjump

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Music with words and costumes with mesh
« on: September 13, 2011, 11:24:37 AM »
While music with lyrics is permitted in a USFS comp at the pre-pre level, would you use it?

Offline roseyhebert

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 11:40:33 AM »
Likely not. 

Offline hopskipjump

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 11:49:24 AM »
It's hard to find something floaty/dreamy without words!  Her coach wants her to try a new style of music. :-\

Offline davincisop

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 12:00:22 PM »
I'm using music with words for my bronze free test, but otherwise I'll stick to instrumental or very minimal words. :) Unless it's for shows, then I'll go with lyrics. :)

Offline FigureSpins

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 12:05:13 PM »
It's not *that* hard to find music without vocals - if you like a particular song, often there is a karaoke or instrumental version you can purchase instead of the original.  If it's from a movie or musical, the soundtrack album usually includes an instrumental overture of sorts from which the piece you want can be cut.  I did that with "How Do You Tell Her You Love Her?" from the Disney movie "Enchanted."  There's a lot of background music, in movies especially, that are instrumental variations of the theme song.

While it's not against the rules for a Pre-Prel to use music with vocals, most skaters/coaches use instrumentals.
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Offline dak_rbb

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 01:10:21 PM »
I would be very reluctant just because there seems to be so much tradition involved in figure skating and I worry about judges' reactions and unconscious biases.

However, I have to say that at a recent competition I saw a wonderful juvenile freeskate using music (including lyrics) from the Lion King.  The choreography and costume was reminiscent of the theme without being specific to the Lion King (i.e. you wouldn't know it was a Lion King dress, but made sense with the style of the music) and it was quite obviously a freeskate rather than an artistic program.  Anyway, very well done and enjoyable and it made me think that maybe with the right music...

Offline blue111moon

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 06:31:58 AM »
USFS rules allow music with vocals for freeskate programs that will not be judged under IJS.  Pree-Pre isn't required to be IJS so vocals would be allowed. 

Now what the judges think is something else.  I know some judges who don't care what the music is as long as the skater can skate to it, but I have heard some (and not always the older ones) complain that they find the singing distracting - and that many times, the vocal music just emphazes the fact that the skater isn't listening to the music at all.

So it's a risk but if the skater really likes the vocal music and can skate to it well, then it might be worth a shot.

Offline jumpingbeansmom

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2011, 09:15:06 AM »
While music with lyrics is permitted in a USFS comp at the pre-pre level, would you use it?

Nope, though a girl that my daughter competes against regularly (and is very good) at Juv level uses music with words, I really find it distracting.

Offline jumpingbeansmom

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 09:16:55 AM »
I would be very reluctant just because there seems to be so much tradition involved in figure skating and I worry about judges' reactions and unconscious biases.

However, I have to say that at a recent competition I saw a wonderful juvenile freeskate using music (including lyrics) from the Lion King.  The choreography and costume was reminiscent of the theme without being specific to the Lion King (i.e. you wouldn't know it was a Lion King dress, but made sense with the style of the music) and it was quite obviously a freeskate rather than an artistic program.  Anyway, very well done and enjoyable and it made me think that maybe with the right music...

So true about tradition.... my dd (age 10- juv) actually got a costume violation a few weeks ago, it was her best score ever too and she lost a point... her music doesn't have words but it is unique as is the costume... but one of the traditional old refs didn't like it and got enough of the judges on his side to give her the violation.. UGH

Offline davincisop

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 10:18:21 AM »
So true about tradition.... my dd (age 10- juv) actually got a costume violation a few weeks ago, it was her best score ever too and she lost a point... her music doesn't have words but it is unique as is the costume... but one of the traditional old refs didn't like it and got enough of the judges on his side to give her the violation.. UGH


Yikes, my dress is traditional, but my music is a little out there. I have a few weird cuts in mine. I should probably try to fix that this weekend.....

Offline jumpingbeansmom

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 10:29:07 AM »

Yikes, my dress is traditional, but my music is a little out there. I have a few weird cuts in mine. I should probably try to fix that this weekend.....


Here is a link to the picture of my daughter's outfit.

http://macksimummemories.shutterbugstorefront.com/p/iscc_saturday_8am_to_4pm/isccsaturday1800_92_1

Supposedly showed too much.  We got a black body tight to go under.

Offline icesk8r725

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 01:02:53 PM »
I believe I heard a few weeks ago that there is a new rule about mesh costumes... at least 50% of the body must be covered.. can anyone verify that?

Offline hopskipjump

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 01:18:47 PM »
Her costume is lovely though!

Offline sarahspins

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 02:42:20 PM »
Here is a link to the picture of my daughter's outfit.

 :blush:  While I do like the overall design (and I love the red!), I have to admit that it does look a bit more revealing than I'm sure was intended... especially because the side seam almost makes it seem more like lingerie than a dress.  I think that the mesh would have worked better if the whole area under her bust was solid, and the mesh it was just above her chest and on her back.

Offline Clarice

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 04:17:51 PM »
I believe I heard a few weeks ago that there is a new rule about mesh costumes... at least 50% of the body must be covered.. can anyone verify that?

The US Figure Skating Rule Book is available online at www.usfsa.org

Rule 6021 B says, in reference to ice dance, "The ladies dress must not give the effect of excessive nudity inappropriate for athletic sport.  The majority of the upper body must be covered."  The corresponding rules for singles and pairs have the statement against the appearance of excessive nudity, but not the part about the majority of the upper body being covered.  Sounds like the judges might be applying it across the board.

Offline Sk8tmum

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2011, 04:21:17 PM »
At the level my kid's skate at, it is the referee, not the judges that make the deductio rule. However, I can confirm that with many judges (even ones who are far from old, such as my DD who is not yet in her 20's) - that costumes that are revealing are not cared for, whether they are "really" revealing or just "illusion" revealing.  Also, that costumes that are presenting as revealing on youngsters are not well-received, i.e. a slashed to the waist dress with sleeveless effect on the top is "okay" for a 16 year old, but not for a 9 year old :)

Now, yes, we can all argue that the costume shouldn't influence the judges ... but, by that argument, we could put everyone on the ice in a plain black dress and tights - we choose and wear costumes with a goal of working with a program and enhancing the presentation.

Back to the OP:  My biggest problem with words and music?  I sing along to it! The words seem to "catch" my focus and pulls it away from the skater more than purely orchestral, or music with the voice used as an "instrument" do.

Offline fsk8r

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2011, 02:26:07 AM »
:blush:  While I do like the overall design (and I love the red!), I have to admit that it does look a bit more revealing than I'm sure was intended... especially because the side seam almost makes it seem more like lingerie than a dress.  I think that the mesh would have worked better if the whole area under her bust was solid, and the mesh it was just above her chest and on her back.


I have to agree, and it makes her seem a lot more grown up than 10, which I'm sure wasn't the intention. I'm sure with a black body suit underneath the appearance of flesh will be removed and it will enhance the costume which is otherwise very nice and unique.

Offline jumpingbeansmom

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2011, 07:29:24 AM »
I believe I heard a few weeks ago that there is a new rule about mesh costumes... at least 50% of the body must be covered.. can anyone verify that?

Her coaches couldn't find anything specific in the rules

Offline jumpingbeansmom

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2011, 07:31:49 AM »
:blush:  While I do like the overall design (and I love the red!), I have to admit that it does look a bit more revealing than I'm sure was intended... especially because the side seam almost makes it seem more like lingerie than a dress.  I think that the mesh would have worked better if the whole area under her bust was solid, and the mesh it was just above her chest and on her back.


It wasn't really meant to be that revealing, at least for her.   It was her coaches outfit--  ice dancer from Russia.  My dd quickly outgrew her own outfit and coach was trying to save us having to buy another one!  We cut the skirt to a freestyle length and tried to cover it up more, but the mesh proved incredibly delicate and difficult to properly sew in more coverage.   We got a dance body stocking that is now working-- she wore it yesterday, so hopefully this will take care of the issue! 

Offline jumpingbeansmom

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2011, 07:36:18 AM »
I have to agree, and it makes her seem a lot more grown up than 10, which I'm sure wasn't the intention. I'm sure with a black body suit underneath the appearance of flesh will be removed and it will enhance the costume which is otherwise very nice and unique.

Well yeah, like I said below, the costume wasn't made for her specifically, we were trying to save some money by using it!

Offline fsk8r

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2011, 08:38:36 AM »
Well yeah, like I said below, the costume wasn't made for her specifically, we were trying to save some money by using it!

Thanks for the explanation. It is an absolutely exquisite costume and it's great that you've been able to reuse it, because it's such a shame when they just sit in cupboards and boxes for years. And I'm glad you said the coach was an ice dancer, because there was something about the costume which was saying ice dance to me, but I couldn't work out what (I think it might be the way the red fabric is wrapped around). Hopefully your daughter stays within the height range of her coach for a while longer so you can save some more money.

Offline sarahspins

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2011, 03:25:52 PM »
Well yeah, like I said below, the costume wasn't made for her specifically, we were trying to save some money by using it!

Yeah, that's MUCH more understandable... I was actually a little afraid you'd had it made for her :sweat

I am sure with the body tights it's much more suitable :)

Offline Schmeck

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2011, 05:02:19 PM »
I was just thinking that the costume just screamed Russian ice dancer!  ;D  Maybe cutting back the poof on the shoulder might help too?  It's a bit overwhelming in proportion to her size.

Figure skating is so tricky - what is acceptable and encouraged in one region can differ from another, whether it be costume style, lyrics/no lyrics, stage make-up and glitter, neat and tidy, etc.  Coaches should have a good feel for the judging community in their region, going all the way up to national/international level if they have skaters at that level.  When my daughter skated at the national level in synchro, the coach got as much input as possible from as many judges as possible.  USFS got pretty involved too, offering critiques on tech stuff, etc. 

Offline isakswings

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2011, 09:50:54 PM »
Here is a link to the picture of my daughter's outfit.

http://macksimummemories.shutterbugstorefront.com/p/iscc_saturday_8am_to_4pm/isccsaturday1800_92_1

Supposedly showed too much.  We got a black body tight to go under.

I never knew there could be a costume violation. Wow.

I like her costume. ;)

Oh and I can see why the judges might think it was inappropriate for a young girl. Glad you found something to cover it.

Offline isakswings

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Re: Music with words and costumes with mesh
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2011, 09:59:36 PM »
While music with lyrics is permitted in a USFS comp at the pre-pre level, would you use it?

I prefer no lyrics or very little vocals involved. My daughter's pre-pre music is from Lion King(mostly broadway) and is mostly instrumental but has a little bit of vocal music in it. So far, we've received compliments from a couple of judges, so I do not think they mind the vocals.