Ankle Abrasion

[JimStanmore]

So, I've had my new Jackson Premiere boots for about 3 weeks and I love them, but...
I heat molded them and then broke them in skating about 2 or 3 hours a day for the 4 days after Christmas.  Everything was fine but I noticed a pain on my right ankle after the first 20 minutes, even wearing gel sleeves.  I immediately put a blister bandage on, but I noticed a circular 1/2 inch scraped open wound (flap of skin, broken blister?)  I tried to protect it during the next sessions, but it continued.  I stayed off the ice for 3 days to let it heal some, skated and it reinjured.  4 Days and the same.  I just stayed off for 5 days and the skin healed down to a small scab.  Skated today with a blister bandaid and it didn't reopen, but it hurts with pain radiating up the ankle 3 or 4 inches.  Especially when I skate..

I don't see anything on the edge of the tongue or the boot that is different from anywhere else.  There is a Silipos gel pad, long john leg and nylon sock between the skin and the boot.  I have even tried sticking a piece of gel insole in there and it doesn't help.

Any suggestions on what is causing it and/or how to prevent it from continuing?
Thanks

[retired]

I have that callus. Or used to.  I haven't worn Jacksons in four years.   It's from the side of the tongue.     Eventually the tongue made it's own groove or indent in the side of the boot instead of my ankle.   I'm wondering if you can make some room in the side of the boot for the tongue to slide. That was my solution, done with my ankle, unfortunately.

[Isk8NYC]

The bandage seems to be horizontal, above the ankle - is the wound really from the side of the tongue or is it from the top of the tongue/boot? 

I had a pair of rebuilt skates that had leftover adhesive along the top edge that gave me awful, horizontal wounds above my ankles.  I might have had a reaction to the adhesive.  The inside lining was suede, so I used a suede brush to get rid of the glue and make the nap softer and smoother, which solved the problem.  Still have a scar on my ankle, though.

Feel the seams for a sharp object or bit of leftover thread from the stitching.  Nylon thread is really scratchy, but it tends to bury itself when the pressure's off (ie. boot's unlaced), so it's hard to find.  Try cleaning the area with a stiff toothbrush to get rid of any foreign matter that might be buried. 

The skate tongue appears to have been cut along the side.  Maybe the raw edge is pressing and rubbing?  You could try softening the tongue leather with some baseball glove leather softener, just at the edges, to see if it helps, or trim away the leather outer part (leaving the soft tongue lining) so that it presses less.

[JimStanmore]

The bandage seems to be horizontal, above the ankle - is the wound really from the side of the tongue or is it from the top of the tongue/boot?

The "cut" was round, like the blue circle.  The inside of the boot and tongue/boot seam feel smooth.  The bandage is sideways to keep it from rubbing off.  I discovered my feet get very moist (sweat) and bandages rub off.

Feel the seams for a sharp object or bit of leftover thread from the stitching.  Nylon thread is really scratchy, but it tends to bury itself when the pressure's off (ie. boot's unlaced), so it's hard to find.  Try cleaning the area with a stiff toothbrush to get rid of any foreign matter that might be buried.  

The skate tongue appears to have been cut along the side.  Maybe the raw edge is pressing and rubbing?  You could try softening the tongue leather with some baseball glove leather softener, just at the edges, to see if it helps, or trim away the leather outer part (leaving the soft tongue lining) so that it presses less.

The tongue is the only thing I could thing of but I couldn't imagine how.  I was thinking of experimenting with taping the edge of the tongue or cutting it, so I am glad to hear that is not outlandish.  I will try trimming tonight and see what happens at my lesson in the morning.

I have read several places that pain like this can signal muscles to not work and that has started happening.  After a few minutes on the ice my right foot starts not extending/pushing fully and the leg does not seem to work right either.  frustrating because until this happened my skating vastly improved.  Nothing worked right today (whine.)

I have that callus. Or used to.  I haven't worn Jacksons in four years.   It's from the side of the tongue.     Eventually the tongue made it's own groove or indent in the side of the boot instead of my ankle.   I'm wondering if you can make some room in the side of the boot for the tongue to slide. That was my solution, done with my ankle, unfortunately.

I had to make semi-circle cutouts on the sides of my Jackson Freestyles.  They were a size too big and after they broke in the tongue sides extended into the ankle bone indentations.  This made the boots difficult to lace tightly at the ankle until I did the cut.

Now to figure out how to make the cut smoothly.  Too bad it is not balsa wood - I could use my modeling skill and some sandpaper...

Thanks for the insights!

Almost forgot, how about using those little blister donuts or cut out cosmetic pads?  i thought if I put a small one around it that might relieve the pressure?

[Isk8NYC]

The blister healing pads work well - used them for my daughter a few times.
I've never been able to keep bandages or pads in place when I skate, though.

Looplover improvised by putting adhesive moleskin pads (made from felt) on her skating sock.  That stayed in place pretty well.

Instead of cutting the tongue, try putting some medical tape over the edge, just to see if it blocks whatever's pressing or rubbing.


You might able to "mark" the spot if you rub some chalk on it, then lace up.
When you take off the skates, it should show where the boot hits that mark.

[JimStanmore]

I was going to try the tape first, but I thought I would actually follow up on my joke about the sandpaper.  Turns out it does sand down.  Also found info about sanding leather on a knife forum (sheaths.)  I think I will stop by the drugstore and get one of those "doughnuts" on the way to class tomorrow morning, too.

Did the marking thing to make sure I am working in the right spot.  Thanks.

Will post results of the sanding...

[Isk8NYC]

Good luck!

[JimStanmore]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I trimmed and sanded the side of the tongue around the suspect spot but, I didn't get a chance to get any other kind of pads.  Driving home after today's lesson I realized that I had not thought about my ankle once after stepping on the ice.  I never knew that you could get this kind of injury and never thought to check the edges of the tongue.

Thanks again!

[fsk8r]

I have the same problem with my Jackson synchro boots and I think Aussieskater mentioned that she knows of people with a similar problem.
I've decided it's not to do with the tongue but a join in the boot that rubs against the skin.
Aussieskater suggested applying duck tape inside the boot on the offending join. My solution is to buy gel tubes and I wear these over my socks. I find that under the tubes the skin gets sweaty, but the lack of bleeding wounds means that I'm happy with the solution.

My boots are now a couple of years old and if I forget the gel tubes I still get the cuts above the ankle.

[AgnesNitt]

Speaking of donuts, Skatingsafe.com has a really nice large one made out of that gel they use. I used one for about six months after I started skating again after the broken ankle. I happened across a book by Brian Boitano's orthopedic surgeon, and he described using something like that gel donut to support lightly injured ankles. In that case you center the donut with the open part over the ankle bone. The boot then presses against the gel, which presses against the tendons and muscles around the injury and prevents further injury.

Anyway, I thought you could look at the gel donut, since it is thicker and bigger than the foot donuts.It might give you more coverage, and spread the pressure away from the abrasion.

Although I wear Jackson's I don't have this problem.

[aussieskater]

I have the same problem with my Jackson synchro boots and I think Aussieskater mentioned that she knows of people with a similar problem.

Yep, my DH had that part rub him, and I applied a "flap" of 5cm-wide Gaffa Tape over the area, which covered the leather and effectively extended the edge of the tongue by a cm or so at the rubbing part.  It's worked a treat and has lasted really well.  The other place he had problems was the join between the roll top and the elastic backstrap - this wasn't well finished on one side of one boot, and that part used to rub him raw.   More Gaffa tape (on all 4 joins!) = no more problems.

When my new boots came, I immediately Gaffa-taped all 4 roll-top/elastic joins (2 per boot), and skated the first several times with the Gaffa tape and scissors at the ready, just in case!

[JimStanmore]

Thanks for the additional suggestions.  

Instead of cutting the tongue, try putting some medical tape over the edge, just to see if it blocks whatever's pressing or rubbing.

I've decided it's not to do with the tongue but a join in the boot that rubs against the skin.

Tape was mentioned earlier, but I didn't try it because I thought it was solved.  Unfortunately, it has started happening again.  So, on with the tape.

My solution is to buy gel tubes and I wear these over my socks. I find that under the tubes the skin gets sweaty, but the lack of bleeding wounds means that I'm happy with the solution.

I've never been able to keep bandages or pads in place when I skate, though.

I was wearing the gel tubes under my socks with the gel against the skin.  After an hour or so of skating, a stinging starts.  Off to the hockey box and the gel tube is pushed up and the underlying band-aid or tape is scrunched up.  I don't understand how the gel tube gets pushed up because it feels suctioned to the skin.  I'll have to try wearing it outside the sock.

This is frustrating because it seems like a penalty for working on bending the knees deeply.  I keep trying to simulate what is happening by moving the boot on my foot all sorts of ways while sitting at my desk, but the only thing is the tongue moving back and forth.  I am still not tying the top hooks and experimenting with the tightness.  Is the hook area too loose or too tight?  Just can't find the "sweet spot."  I will say that I was having problems with the laces disengaging and falling off - three times in the last couple of weeks.

In terms of the hook tightness/lacing I notice that when they are all laced it feels like the laces are cutting into my ankle.  I wear them while working on the computer and try to stretch them into a bend.  When I look down all that has happened is the laces have stretched, the boots haven't bent at all.

At least I can skate a hard hour before anything happens.  That gets me through a targeted practice and will work in competition and testing.  I want to take the pre-preliminary and pre-bronze tests by May and do about three competitions.

Now, where is that roll of black duct tape...

[fsk8r]

At least I can skate a hard hour before anything happens.  That gets me through a targeted practice and will work in competition and testing.  I want to take the pre-preliminary and pre-bronze tests by May and do about three competitions.

Now, where is that roll of black duct tape...

At least you get an hour. Without my gel tubes I get about 15mins before my skin is stinging and once it starts my skating goes downhill. There's blood within about 30mins. One foot does seem to get it worse than the other, so when I lose a gel tube, I have to toss a coin and see which ankle's going to get it...

Have you tried compeed blister plasters on the cuts? They work very well, but will scrunch when they get moist if there's any rubbing. However, they are the best I know for healing cuts and so will work well when you're not skating if you've a couple of days straight to put one on.

[JimStanmore]

Luckily, the wounds have healed.  I stop and readjust everything at the first hint of trouble.  That is keeping it at a nuisance level.  I forgot my gel tubes one day and had to revert to ace bandages.  I keep a few I bought at the DollarTree in my bag.  They are bulkier than gel tubes, but worked great on the ankle biting from my concrete SP Teri's.  I also threw a couple of old gel insoles and foam insoles in the bag that I cut in half.  Stuffed inside of my socks they are a temporary fix.

At one point I had the gel sole, then a piece of cardboard, a foam sole, duct tape and then the Ace bandage on each ankle because the boot top (SPTeri) was denting my outside ankle tendons.  It took half an hour to get my boots on, LOL.

[JimStanmore]

Woowoo!  The tape worked perfectly.

[Query]

I hope you aren't using duct tape on your skin! Medical tape (e.g., athletic tape) is potentially less harmful.

If removing the tape irritates the skin, you could try wrapping an athletic gauze around that part of your foot before applying the tape, though it is alway possible that might slip and cause a blister.

[jumpingbeansmom]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I trimmed and sanded the side of the tongue around the suspect spot but, I didn't get a chance to get any other kind of pads.  Driving home after today's lesson I realized that I had not thought about my ankle once after stepping on the ice.  I never knew that you could get this kind of injury and never thought to check the edges of the tongue.

Thanks again!

My dd had this issue with her Jacksons, when they were newish, the notch seemed to dig in, so I put duct tape over it-- seemed to do the trick.

[JimStanmore]

I hope you aren't using duct tape on your skin! Medical tape (e.g., athletic tape) is potentially less harmful.

If removing the tape irritates the skin, you could try wrapping an athletic gauze around that part of your foot before applying the tape, though it is alway possible that might slip and cause a blister.

I am putting the tape on the tongue of the boot to extend it.  I used duct tape on my skin in an "emergency" a couple of weeks ago to hold a blister bandage in place.  My skin wasn't irritated but had the tape pattern on it for a few days.

[JimStanmore]

The tape only worked for a little while and then it started bunching up.  So, I resorted to ankle wraps to skate more than about an hour.  When I started followed some of the instructions and put the gel sleeve on the outside of my sock that made it better.

The permanent fix was thanks to Harlick (http://www.harlick.com/order/faq.php - Why Do My Tongues Twist?) and a post on another forum (fsu): I cut two slits in the tongue right below where the eyelets start and threaded my laces through the resulting slot.  It turns out the tongue was twisting/curling and moving.  The groove on my Premiere tongue did not work as well as the one of the Freestyle at holding the tongue still.

I did not have a punch so, I was not able to make the holes as recommended by Harlick.  Also did not cut through the backing - only the leather.  I used a jewelers screwdriver to open up the flap/loop to allow me to feed the laces through.

It is working like a dream...

[Nate]

The only way I've been able to stop my tongue from twisting is to get Tongue Lace bars put in and put one lace around it to pull it the opposite of the direction it twists in.  That keeps the tongue firmly to the middle of the boot.  Nothing else worked...

New boots and I've had to do the same thing...

IRT ankle abrasions...  These new bots gave me a blister on the side of my ankle from the tongue rubbing, and then basically rubbed the blister off, Lol.  It hurts like hell, but I'm going to make sure to always have something over that area in the future.  I skated with Gel Pads for a year and I'm not going back...  It's too much of a PITA to feel like you have to break in your boots again after getting spoiled by those things...

[Isk8NYC]

I have to say, I've never ANYONE complain this much about Klingbeil skates, even during the break-in period.  Sounds like you and your fitter have mis-sized/overbooted again.  You should have bought a different brand skate because you're never going to be happy in these skates..

[jumpingbeansmom]

I have to say, I've never ANYONE complain this much about Klingbeil skates, even during the break-in period.  Sounds like you and your fitter have overbooted again.  You should have bought a different brand skate because you're never going to be happy in these skates..

My 10 yo dd is in LOVE with her Klingbeils...she literally doesn't even need bunga pads on her ankles....she didn't get ONE blister...amazing

[Isk8NYC]

These are my fourth pair of Klingbeils and I've never gotten a blister at any time, even during break-in.  I was doing axels in my first (very stiff, btw) pair after two hours of skating in them.

I really think GoSveta's fitter is the problem.

[jumpingbeansmom]

These are my fourth pair of Klingbeils and I've never gotten a blister at any time, even during break-in.  I was doing axels in my first (very stiff, btw) pair after two hours of skating in them.

I really think GoSveta's fitter is the problem.

This is what we found as well-- dd was doing all her doubles on day 2-- and most of the reason she wasn't doing them on day one was because of a change to a longer blade

[sarahspins]

I don't think blister problems are ALWAYS the fault of overbooting or poor fit..... to be 100% honest I feel like some people are just MORE prone to them than others.... I will get blisters if the seam on my tights isn't in exactly the right place. 

I've had boot issues in the past that resulted in ankle surgery once (boots should have been punched, I didn't know any better, thought the pain was normal, etc), so I am picky about fit now (hoping never to repeat that experience), but even given that, I got a pinch type blister above my ankle with my new boots where the tongue met the boot... I don't think that's a fit issue as much as unfortunate placement of a seam.. it would have happened even with a very soft boot.  It was made worse by a latex allergy (it never occurred to me that boot tongues are latex foam - I'd skated with lambswool tongues for the past 14 years, so it hadn't been an issue).. so I had irritated feet from the foam and a blister that just kept getting worse because it couldn't heal when it kept getting pinched, which was 100% solved by removing the foam and relining the tongues with wool.. because I made sure that seam got sanded down so it wouldn't be a problem.

Bungas were INVALUABLE in the meantime, while both the blister and my rash healed.  I wouldn't want to rely on them all the time, but while my skin was healing they were worth their weight in gold and I couldn't have skated without them.... now I keep them in my bag "just in case" but I don't really expect to have to use them.