skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: AgnesNitt on September 03, 2012, 06:35:34 AM
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Ever take a lesson from a famous skater or a famous coach? Was it worth it? Did you learn anything?
I'll start.
While I was at LP, I took 5 lessons from Todd Gilles US Junior National champ in ice dancing (w/ Trina Pratt)
Worth Every Penny.
I had a couple of breakthroughs and I got some technique I never had before. My coach was all happy face when I got home
He has a good way of dealing with low level skaters, which not every coach does.
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At my club we have lessons with Brian Orser and Tracy Wilson. Tracy is very technical and always trying new techniques and works on minute details of steps and such. Brian is more a free spirit and likes to do turns and footwork kind of however the music inspires him.
Both classes are definitely worth it.
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Good for you AgnesNitt!! Envy envy envy @ SynchKat...
I have not taken private lessons from star skaters / coaches. Just a clinic with a World Champion skater which was more like overcrowded group lesson ran by rink staff coaches.
I've since wondered if it's worth it to spend $$$ on travel to attend camps for technical improvements. I agree a lot of times it helps tremendously to hear the technique expressed slightly differently, but for someone with tight skating budget, it's too much of a gamble whether or not someone will say something that "clicks" :P
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Jjane that is a gamble since just because someone is a star it doesn't make them able to impart knowledge and some people, like me, learn a little differently than others. :). Some coaches though can say something and it just makes no sense at all, the guy who partners my dances counts everything, I don’t.
For this thread though, not a coaching skate but when my friend and I decided to choreograph our couples interp program for nationals with a king full theme, Jeffrey Battle decided to show up that day to work with David Wilson on a beautiful new program. I am not often intimidated on ice and like when the current "stars" come on with us but we ended up in a corner with our silly little program. :)
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Jeffrey Buttle decided to show up that day to work with David Wilson on a beautiful new program...
I won't be able to even stand on the ice... Probably will press my face against the glasses with hearts in my eyes :love: :love: Oh wait, your rink does not have glasses nor boards lol
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Ha ha, you would be on the ice with him, it was an adult session. And he would give way to you, they respect everyone's space and right to use the ice.
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My coach is famous, it took a little while to get used to it & get the stars out of my eyes. But he's an excellent coach & i have a lot of respect for him as a person too. Not every high profile skater will be a great coach, they have to have the right temperment & be able to break things down for you. But when they can, you really benefit from their own great training and expertise.
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We have an Olympic silver medallist at our rink, but I wouldn't take lessons for two reasons: she's waaaay out of my budget, and more importantly, I wouldn't learn under her teaching style. I'd be too frustrated. She seems to relate better to the kids, and that's fine.
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Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about the World champion at my rink @@ Had him for group lesson and switched away immediately because of his teaching style. Most adult skaters at my rink had issues, he does train very successful kid competitors.
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jjane, his most talented student came to him with a 2A, so he's really building on a solid foundation already there.
I heard from a friend who went that some of the coaching participants in the Dorothy Hamil camp are better than others. Those who had more of a struggle learning their elements are the better teachers.
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I heard from a friend who went that some of the coaching participants in the Dorothy Hamil camp are better than others. Those who had more of a struggle learning their elements are the better teachers.
That's always the way in anything.
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Yes and no. Usually, yes, because they are the ones who had to have it explained multiple ways in order to get it, but not ALL naturals are lacking the ability to explain.
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Yes and no. Usually, yes, because they are the ones who had to have it explained multiple ways in order to get it, but not ALL naturals are lacking the ability to explain.
And the willingness to explain ;)
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There's a six-time Australian Champion at our rink but I don't take lessons from her. She seems nice but doesn't deal with the younger/beginner skaters too well.
If I had the money, and if he did them for adults, I'd pack off to one of Mishin's summer camps. Not only do you get instruction from Mishin, but Plushenko, Gachinski and Tuktamysheva are often there helping him as well. By all accounts Plushenko attaches himself to the little kids and does very well with them. I'm not sure I'd be able to stay upright long enough to learn something from Gachinski though. :blush: :love:
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I'm on the bench with a shattered ankle and I just had a lesson from Wesley Campbell. It was so worth it. We worked based on video and he demonstrated what I was doing wrong. Also it was amazing to pick the brain of an elite skater in regards to the mental aspect of skating and competing.
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Phew. Now you don't even need a fortune to take coaching from Olympic champions!
http://www.kuliksskating.com/index.php (http://www.kuliksskating.com/index.php)
You can have a private lesson with Ilia or Katia for just $30 for 15 minutes. Seems VERY reasonable to me!
Better yet, the website says it's for all levels - tiny tots, competitive, ADULTS... ;D
Why are plane tickets to Cali so expensive? :P
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I am seriously tempted too, I want Katia's smooth and feather light stroking!! Maybe kiwiskater could fit it into her schedule since she'll be at LAX soon! The rink size of 80' x 130' is really a bummer though.
On the other hand, their rate is what I think elite coaches charge in general. IIRC Frank Carroll does not charge sky high either. Higher than the average coaching rate in the area, but not twice as much.
What do famous coaches / skaters charge in your area compared to the average rate?
ETA: Frank Carrol (http://deserticecastle.com/coach.html) now charges $50 for 20 minutes. I think it was lower when he was at Toyota Sports Center. I remember picking up a brochure and surprised at how reasonable the rate was.
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What is he going rate for lessons nowadays? I guess it varies from place to place but a ballpark figure
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$35 for 30 minutes around here
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You can have a private lesson with Ilia or Katia for just $30 for 15 minutes. Seems VERY reasonable to me!
$120/hour is comparable to what most elite US coaches charge, but the rank-and-file PSA coaches charge anywhere from $60-$90/hour. I can definitely see it for higher-level skaters because they need the extra knowledge and experience, but for beginners and low-level skaters, it's overpriced.
As Slusher once said, you don't need an Olympic medal to teach tots how to lick the ice, lol.
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The average rate for private in Nashville is 70-85 for an hour
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Yeah, you have to know when you're ready to take a lesson with a star coach or skater to make it worth the money investment. I wasn't ready until this year.
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$120/hour is comparable to what most elite US coaches charge, but the rank-and-file PSA coaches charge anywhere from $60-$90/hour. I can definitely see it for higher-level skaters because they need the extra knowledge and experience, but for beginners and low-level skaters, it's overpriced.
As Slusher once said, you don't need an Olympic medal to teach tots how to lick the ice, lol.
Ha, it's the crazy fun girl in me wants to meet Katia on ice. The ability to take a lesson from her is a bonus! I'd have to win the lottery first to take lessons from elite coaches regularly ;)
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First of all, almost everyone I've met who teaches skating at a professional level is an incredibly good athlete. Take a look at the Bios various clubs post. It seems like everyone has won regional competitions, or made it to Nationals of one country or another, or has USFSA gold test levels in freestyle and dance, or toured or choreographed with Disney On Ice, Stars on Ice, etc. They are all so high above most of us, maybe exactly how how shouldn't be a major criteria, especially if we don't expect to win major league competitions.
As an almost new skater, I asked a club "pro liason" who would be a good ice dance coach. She was trying to recruit world class ice dancers to come and coach, so she gave me the name of one of the coaches whose services she had recruited - a Russian former Olympian by the name of Genrikh Sretenski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genrikh_Sretenski). Some skaters and skating fans say he was among the finest male ice dancers in history. At the time three Olympic hopeful Dance teams were taking from him.
That appealed to me in part because I had happily taken kayak lessons from a world class kayaker, who was one of the best teachers in any subject I had ever met. The kayaker was equally good at teaching other competitive athletes, and klutzes like me. So I naturally assumed all world class athletes were great teachers too, for everyone.
Genrickh charged the highest rates in the area. But for a year or two I used him. I initially assumed world class athlete meant he would teach the "right" style, and taking from him would make it easy to partner with ladies. But he emphasized a highly idiosyncratic style - which I didn't recognize. So when I tried to partner with ladies in the club, I was doing all the wrong things, moving my body in opposite ways from the American norm. He did push a lot for speed and other things that were good, and I still practice a lot of his drills, but his English was imperfect, and I had a lot of trouble distinguishing what was supposed to be drill technique, and what was supposed to be good skating technique. He also always used Show, when I needed a lot of Tell. And I wasn't going to practice partnering with another male. (For a while I simultaneously took lessons from one of his competitive ladies, Caitlin Obremski (http://photography.ice-dance.com/1999-2002-seasons/00USNats/Dance/Senior/00USN-SrFD-1331-OM-MW.jpg.php), with whom I could partner.)
After realizing I wasn't getting better very fast, and was spending a lot of time [20 hours/week] and money on it, I quit with him. And yet, three of my other coaches (including Caitlin), with whom I had better luck, took from him as their coach, and were quite happy with him. So he is a great coach, and I believe he still coaches a number of great competitive skaters - just not for me.
In the end, as a non-athlete trying to do athletic things, I need a coach who is able to analyze exactly how to do things, can demonstrate well, can explain well, can sometimes move my body to the positions needed, can explain how to train, and has a detailed technical knowledge of what you need to do to make the body move well, not just the innate ability to do those things. At my skating level, that doesn't take a world class skater, it takes a world class teacher, one better adapted to my needs.
If for some reason you need a new coach, I encourage you to try out someone outstanding. He/she might work very well for you, and it can be quite inspiring. But also look at coaches that seem to be outstanding teachers.
On the other hand, switching coaches usually creates a lot of problems, as you have to get used to their teaching and skating style. You might be better off staying with your current coach.
I think a good way to experiment is to take a group lesson from someone good. Say, an ice dance or edge clinic. If you are up front with your current coach about that, it doesn't have to mean burning your bridges with your current coach.
- Just my view
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If you have the opportunity, WATCH someone who is supposedly outstanding to determine if he/she is good for you/your skater before asking for lessons with them. :P
I have heard that if the opportunity arises, take lessons or a seminar with Paul Wylie and/or Todd Eldredge as both are great teachers.
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I have heard that if the opportunity arises, take lessons or a seminar with Paul Wylie and/or Todd Eldredge as both are great teachers.
I definitely heard lots of raves about Paul Wylie. Teaching is a completely different set of talent for sure!!
First of all, almost everyone I've met who teaches skating at a professional level is an incredibly good athlete. Take a look at the Bios various clubs post. It seems like everyone has won regional competitions, or made it to Nationals of one country or another, or has USFSA gold test levels in freestyle and dance, or toured or choreographed with Disney On Ice, Stars on Ice, etc. They are all so high above most of us...
Not sure about everyone else, for me a "famous skater" in the context of this thread is more than winning regionals or competing on the national stage. Does not have to be Michelle Kwan famous, but with a national, World, or Olympic medal.
Recently I had a discussion with rink friends about how well a coach's resume on paper reflects his or her ability to teach recreational adult students. Nearly impossible. Our rink's adult class was much better attended under a coach who learned skating as a middle-aged adult (you may know whom am I talking about) than the champion coach.
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My adult novice/intermediate and advanced group class has an Olympian for a coach! I didn't find that out until after the first ten-week semester with her, and was so surprised that someone so high level would be teaching adult skaters! She's a really good coach and I love taking lessons with her. I don't know how she is as a private coach though, I wouldn't be able to afford her :P
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I took a seminar once from Alissa and Amber Czisny, and during the seminar they divided up with Amber taking the lower level skaters and Alissa the higher. The higher skaters raved about Alissa and her work with them on spin variations, but I didn't feel like the private lesson I took from her later was that beneficial. For one thing- I was nervous so I wasn't skating well, but then she also didn't seem to know what to say to help me. I bet she could develop into a very good coach, but teaching low level skaters is a real skill, and at least at that time, I don't know that she had it yet. (She is very quiet, and likely hadn't done too much coaching yet.) Amber on the other hand, seemed to have a lot of experience with lower level skaters and gave me some really good tips. Alissa did teach me where to put my hands during a backspin as off centered over the heart- rather than to the right or center. I still do that.
I'm glad I did the lesson though. I was a huge fan of hers, so it was just really cool to get to skate with her.
I think my favorite story of a star skater working with adults was Brian Orser. He had to miss nationals when Adam Rippon had just joined him- he had promised adults at the rink he would take them to skate Rideau Canal, and he upheld his promise.
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I'm glad I did the lesson though. I was a huge fan of hers, so it was just really cool to get to skate with her.
:love: I can totally imagine how it feels like!
Ha ha, you would be on the ice with him, it was an adult session. And he would give way to you, they respect everyone's space and right to use the ice.
My chain of thoughts went like this: being on the ice with a gorgeous famous skater -> swoon^10 -> may not be able to skate safely and become a hazard on the ice... LOL
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Ha ha I didn't think of it that way. Maybe he could carry you off the ice and sit with you until you felt better. ;). But better still you could just sit in the lounge, have a drink and admire him from the safety of a comfy seat.
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My DD had Keiffer Hubbell partner her through a dance test last year. The other partner could not make it so he filled in last minute.
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Paul Wylie visits my rink every few months. Unfortunately we don't find out until after the sign up sheet for lessons is full. The same girls continue to get 4+ lessons with out visiting coaches and are already signed up on the sheets (and morning slots, the only ones I CAN attend because of work are already taken) before said coaches are even announced. >:(
One of the coaches' moms works in our front office and I think she gives certain parents a heads up, and the coach will sign up the girls before asking the parents so they get on the list, so I've heard.
It's unfair to us who really want to take a lesson with said visiting coach and are unable to because of rink politics. I work 9-6 so the only session I can attend are the 7 and 8am ones.
I would love to take lessons from an Olympian though. It would be super awesome and inspiring. :)
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I would talk to the skating director if I were in your shoes, Davinci.
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We have an Olympic silver medallist at our rink, but I wouldn't take lessons for two reasons: she's waaaay out of my budget, and more importantly, I wouldn't learn under her teaching style. I'd be too frustrated. She seems to relate better to the kids, and that's fine.
I believe I know the one you speak of. She does turn out winners though. My DD's coach calls her students "robots" at a recent competition they were warming up as a group all with game faces and attitudes, and this was a very low level.
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I would talk to the skating director if I were in your shoes, Davinci.
He's friends with said mother.... The lady that told me the coach was coming did look at the sheet for me to see if he had any morning sessions but he doesn't have anything earlier than 9. But she didn't even know until she saw the sheet.
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There's a former ISU World level Ukranian pair skater who coaches at my rink. He was most active in about the year 2000, but now I think only coaches. He's nice, as in, he didn't like totally blow me off like some others when I was a beginner, but he's very cold and distant, and I've never seen him smile or laugh ever. So, I don't believe he'd be asking me how my day is or anything like that, he'd definitely not be a "rent-a-friend" kinda coach. He seems to get results, though, just nobody else uses him, at least none of the adult skaters. He is most expensive ($80 an hour, but the other coaches are at least 60, and he's got the highest credentials,) but I figure he'll give me the most bang for the buck, but I'll have to see what my experience is when the time comes.
As far as watching him goes, besides his pretty elite level people he coaches (that are mostly from Eastern Europe) more or less fulltime, I did see him coach like a 5-6 year old kid on hockey skates, and it was complete magic what he did with him in an hour. The kid had good posture and could do forward crossovers no problem, starting from being barely able to skate. As far as the Eastern European skaters he mainly coaches, I don't want to bring up too much, but it's quite grueling, 4-5 hours ice time, he's fairly nice, but his female partner is significantly less nice.
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:love: I can totally imagine how it feels like!
My chain of thoughts went like this: being on the ice with a gorgeous famous skater -> swoon^10 -> may not be able to skate safely and become a hazard on the ice... LOL
I guess I should be thankful that the highest level coaches at my rink are male then.
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If anyone trains alongside elite competitors who contend nationally or internationally, is it normal to see visiting fans running around hoping to catch a practice session, a photo, or an autograph?
I know if my faves train anywhere near me, my schedule would be greatly disturbed by spending too much time at the rink, lol.
Do you know any current (eta: still competing) big name competitors who coach regularly on the side, not just occasional seminars? I believe Rockne Brubaker does.
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If anyone trains alongside elite competitors who contend nationally or internationally, is it normal to see visiting fans running around hoping to catch a practice session, a photo, or an autograph?
I remember reading there was a woman from Japan who used to watch all of Johnny Weir's practices from the bleachers.
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If anyone trains alongside elite competitors who contend nationally or internationally, is it normal to see visiting fans running around hoping to catch a practice session, a photo, or an autograph?
I know if my faves train anywhere near me, my schedule would be greatly disturbed by spending too much time at the rink, lol.
Do you know any current big name competitors who coach regularly on the side, not just occasional seminars? I believe Rockne Brubaker does.
Dennis Petukhov and Melissa Gregory don't compete anymore, but they fairly recently stopped, 2008 or so. I'd guess they're fairly big names. He lives in my state, however, he coaches at a rink a good drive away (approx an hour) from me. I've seen him at my rink before, only a couple times, I'd guess he either goes if he has business in the area or in the case where I talked to him, the power was out and my rink was the only rink in the state open.
I have a funny story regarding Dennis and Melissa, though, on the day the power was out, I had a friend staying at my house, and I took him skating with me. In front of all the figure skaters (mostly attractive girls) he decides to start going into a narrative in a movie preview voice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9pAv-z2ens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9pAv-z2ens) about me and ice skating, saying things like "Passion, romance, suspense!" and then as he's saying this all, Dennis Petukhov walks by. My friend has the oddest luck in the world, and whenever I go out with him, it's never a "normal" day, and that day was the day Dennis Petukhov came by.
I guess moral of the story is.... don't have friends?
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My rink is in a private club so you have to be brought in by a member to watch. I have brought in my parents and plan to take an aunt.
When I was training we would have random people drop I and watch sometimes. I think they were just locals. I liked and still do when random people come and watch a session. Back in the day I did dance but at the club was a young Elvis Stojko and eventually and young Emmanuel Sandhu. So it pays to drop into random rinks to watch a session.
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If anyone trains alongside elite competitors who contend nationally or internationally, is it normal to see visiting fans running around hoping to catch a practice session, a photo, or an autograph?
I skate frequently with Gracie Gold, but no one bothers her at all. We kid around with her all the time about stalking her and wanting her autograph. :)
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I skate frequently with Gracie Gold, but no one bothers her at all. We kid around with her all the time about stalking her and wanting her autograph. :)
Well, if we give her a few years to gather the big medals, royal fans will start watching every practice from the bleachers lol.
My rink is in a private club so you have to be brought in by a member to watch. I have brought in my parents and plan to take an aunt.
When I was training we would have random people drop in and watch sometimes. I think they were just locals. I liked and still do when random people come and watch a session. Back in the day I did dance but at the club was a young Elvis Stojko and eventually and young Emmanuel Sandhu. So it pays to drop into random rinks to watch a session.
I guess the relative privacy is nice for some huge skating stars that train / trained at your rink :)