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Buying my figure skates has been quite an adventure. Hopefully this is the right place to share (if not, feel free to move this post).

It began back in November 2011, when my husband and I decided we were going to wholeheartedly support our town's new ice rink. With the idea that we'd be coming to skate regularly, hubby decided to buy me a pair of skates at the local pro-shop. I was very excited to have my very own, brand-new pair of skates. I tried on both Jackson and Riedell, the only two brands our tiny pro-shop carries, and I found that Riedell's just weren't comfortable, but the Jackson Glaciers fit like they were made for me. I wear a regular shoe size 8 WW, and much to my surprise, the size 8 M skates fit without being too narrow. Shocked and pleased, we bought them on the spot. A few weeks later, we began lessons.

Everything was fine, the skates broke in nicely, and they were so comfortable . . . until I started doing swizzles. Then my feet started spasming. I could make it halfway across the short width of the rink and then I had to stop and rest by the wall for a few minutes, until the pain in my feet subsided. Since you have to go at least halfway across the rink in order to pass the test, I knew I was in trouble. I couldn't understand the problem, since the skates seemed to fit so nicely. Eventually, I read that skates are supposed to fit snugly and therefore my skates were too big. I tried on a pair in 7.5, and then a 7, which fit much better--but were too narrow.

Our pro-shop guy offered to order the Jackson Glaciers in a wide-width for me. So we waited a couple of weeks for those to come in, but when they finally arrived, they weren't wide. Because Jackson Glaciers don't come in wide. But nobody bothered to tell the pro-shop guy this when he ordered them, they just accepted his order and shipped the M width. So I did some research and found that if I wanted a wide width, I was going to have to go up a few levels and order the Jackson Artiste or Classique. Since the Classiques were only about $25 more than the Artistes and seemed quite a bit nicer, we ordered them.

But they didn't ship. And they didn't ship. My test loomed, just one week away. So we drove 5 hours to the nearest city with a figure skating shop, just so I could try on some skates and (hopefully) go home with a pair for the test. Unfortunately, it was just after Christmas and the shop was sold out of nearly everything. The lady tried skate after skate on me, but she didn't have the right size and width combination that I needed. Finally, at the very end, she brought out a pair of Riedell 110s, the cheapest skate they had. And it fit. Well, sort of. They had to have the sides punched out to make them wide enough, which the shop lady did. The back of the ankle tilted forward right where my ankle tilted back, and therefore they dug into my ankles painfully, but the shop lady assured me that would "break-in" and so she sold me a pair of Bunga ankle sleeves to wear in the meantime. (Now I'm paranoid about the skates damaging my achilles tendon!) By the time we drove home again, the punch-outs had shrunk so they no longer fit. Instead, the edge of the punch-out rubs against the base of my big toe, and when I wear the skates, my feet go numb after a few minutes . . . but they are (slightly) less painful than my too-big Glaciers, so I wore them for my test--and passed by the skin of my teeth. (Yay!)

Finally, the Jackson Classiques arrived, in a size 7 C. When I first tried them on, I could barely squeeze my foot into them, I thought they were too small, and I despaired. But the pro-shop owner was kind enough to let me sit around in his shop for nearly an hour, wearing them. And gradually, they stretched just enough for me to realize that they did, indeed, fit. They were wide enough, which was my biggest concern. They hurt where the arch support met my flat-feet, but I suspected that might go away with breaking-in. Still, they were painful and I didn't want to buy yet another pair of skates that didn't fit! If they'd been cheaper, I wouldn't have hesitated, but because these were not $65 skates, but $140 skates, I wasn't sure what to do. My husband encouraged me to go ahead and buy them, so I finally did. And I'm glad, because with wearing them around the house, they have started to break in and most of the pain has vanished.

Now I'm just waiting until I can get them sharpened, so I can stop wearing the "temporary" Riedells, which are quite uncomfortable. Problem is, we haven't a decent sharpener in our city. The pro-shop uses an automated machine that doesn't know the difference between hockey skates and figure skates, so I have to drive 3 hours to the closest city with a rink to find someone who knows what they're doing. I finally found someone and we have an appointment for next weekend. (I know the local figure skaters have someone to sharpen their skates, but that's a secret they're guarding closely!)

But now I've read a little more about the Jackson Classiques and learned that they have freestyle blades, which have toe-picks that may be too big for me, since I'm still a beginner. Someone suggested that I could swap the blades out if I have trouble with the toe-picks, but then I read that you can only do that with leather-soled skates, and these are PVC. So I don't know what I'll do if the toe-picks are too big. I couldn't go with a lesser skate, because I need the wide width. My feet are double wide, practically off the sizing chart, and I already learned that punching the toes out doesn't work well. So, hopefully I can learn to deal with the blades! Next week they'll be sharpened and I can finally skate in them, and then we'll find out if my skate-buying saga is ended or not. . . .  ;D

Width wise I have a similar issue. Try seeing if you can order the mens boot in white leather. I know Riedell will do this because that is what mine are.

What an adventure! Looking forward to the next installment!

I'll look into the men's boots if the Jackson Classiques don't work. After three pairs of skates and a lot of money wasted, I'm really hoping they'll be okay. Like I said, next weekend I get them sharpened and then I'll be able to test them on the ice for the first time. I'm so anxious about it! I'm terrified they'll end up hurting or the toe-picks will be too big and I won't be able to skate in them. With no figure skating stores closer than a 5 hour drive, it makes it hard to shop around for skates.  :-\

Are you willing to share where you are located?  That may help us recommend some fitters.  I live in a state without a pro-shop, so I understand the feeling of it being a secret where the skate sharpeners are...


Also- if you are a confident beginner, the Mark IV blade shouldn't be too big of a toe pick for you.  I switched to a freestyle blade/stiffer boot (Mirage, which I think is a step up from Mark IV, but probably as similar toe pick size) around Basic 5, but I progressed through the Basic skills levels quite quickly.  

I was also in too small skates for MUCH too long.  My first figure skates (I started with the Lands End skates my parents had bought me 18 years earlier...) were Jackson Competitors in a size 3- the fitter swore they were right, and they felt fine off ice, but my feet would go numb within seconds, wearing tights.  I started skating barefoot and that bought me about 10 minutes of feeling, then they'd go numb.  I could get through a 30 minute period then I'd have to relace and rub my feet.  So I found a coach who had size 3 D width used.  That made the $250 mistake of the first skates a bit more palatable, because those only cost me $50- and those were SO much better.  My feet would go numb after about an hour though, and I'd clench my toes.  I wore them for a few years until I decided I wanted new skates.  Turns out- I should have been in a size 4, and while my feet are wide for 3s, they are in the normal range for 4 (I think I need a split width, as I'd like it a bit wider in the toe, but the heel is good.)  My new skates- Jackson Premiers, are now pretty close to perfect for me. 

Finding skates that fit is quite an adventure...

The Mirage/Mark IV is really the same blade, and I wouldn't worry about the picks being too much for you.  There's a difference between what is considered a "recreational blade" (like what you'd find on rental skates or very low-end figure skates) and what is a beginning freestyle blade like the Mirage or Mark IV, and you should be fine on those... the problem really comes in when people start moving towards much more advanced freestyle blades before they really have the skill set required to use them effectively.

I live near Memphis, TN, if that helps. The name of a good fitter or sharpener closer than Nashville (3 hour drive) would be fantastic. Our pro-shop owner does his best, but he's new to the business and knows very little about fitting or sharpening. He uses an automated machine to sharpen skates and I'm pretty sure the machine doesn't know the difference between hockey skates and figure skates. My instructor gave me the name of her "old" sharpener in Nashville, but she wouldn't say who she uses locally, so I'm convinced it's a conspiracy of silence.

As far as blades go, I think they are the Mirage freestyle blades. The toe-picks look absolutely wicked, but when I held them up against my old skates, they didn't seem to be that much larger, so I don't know if it's an optical illusion or what.

I'm not that confident of a beginner, to be honest. I mean, I'm learning and I'm doing well, but I have a lot of anxiety about being on the ice. I'm constantly afraid of falling and breaking something, and I don't deal well with crowds. I had to drop out of the public classes and switch to private lessons because I couldn't deal with so many people, or the pressure to learn (and master!) one new skill each week. I'm doing a lot better with private instruction. My instructor pushes me to keep learning, but when I can't do something because my knees are hurting or my back is spasming, she's happy to move on to something else.

Anyway, hopefully the blades will be okay!

I guess by confident beginner, I meant someone who was up and moving.  Some adults hold onto the wall for years, I wouldn't put them in Mirages.  (Don't let this scare you if you are still holding on... especially if you think they don't look much bigger than your other pair.)   If it makes you feel better, I'm a freestyle skater and terrified of crowded ice.  I've left group classes when there were more people there than normal, but I do take them for the most part.  You should ask your instructor to help you learn how to fall safely.  I never fell when I was coming up in the levels, so when I got to jumping I was still terrified of it, and it has really held me back.  Learning how to fall in the beginning is pretty important, and letting yourself fall. 

I can't help with TN, maybe someone will be able to chime in, but I have to say that is REALLY weird your instructor wouldn't give you a local name. I expect that of rival coaches, but not your own...    It does sound like she is a good fit for you though, if she pushes you just enough, but recognizes your limitations.

Good luck with the new skates.

No, I don't hold onto the wall. I didn't, even before I started classes, probably a leftover smidgeon of confidence from when I took lessons as a kid. I passed Adult 1 and am now working on outside edges on a curve and turning while moving. Oh, and pivots--only I have trouble with those because I can't hold my foot at the right angle with my current skates. They cut into the back of my ankle, so pointing my foot becomes uncomfortable, even with Bunga pads on.

We were taught how to get back up again after falling in the first class, but they didn't actually teach us how to fall. I've read that you're supposed to tilt your head either forwards or backwards to try and stop from hitting it, and to land on the largest muscle (either hip or bum), but I don't see how you're supposed to manage that when you fall so quickly that you're flat on the ice before you realize it! I've fallen twice, landed on my lower back once and on my hip the other time. The other day I started to fall but caught myself, and wrenched my back in the process. Still hurt the following week during my lesson. Between my anxieties and my physical issues (arthritis, etc.) I often wonder if I picked the right hobby. . . . My hubby's not scared of falling at all, because he gets to wear all his hockey gear, like a foot of padding over his whole body. He falls, he doesn't even feel it!

After you've skated in your boots a while, they will "stretch out" a bit. It helps if you have them heat-molded (which I'm sure you can have done at the good pro-shop).  If they still bug you, have them stretched out a bit. Most fitters/pro shops can stretch them (up to one full size I'm told).  If it's only a few areas that hurt, have those spots "punched out" which will give you great relief.

You will find some of the moves easier as your skates break in and you gain more control over your skating.  Good luck!

Congratulations on passing your group test!

You don't have to wait to use your new skates.  The blades come with a factory sharpening that should be good enough until you can get to the sharpener.  Just check the bottoms to be sure there is a hollow.  In general, the blades on Jackson sets are OK.

I've tried factory-sharpened Ultima stock blades myself and they weren't very good.  Part of it is that the ROH is too shallow, but I could feel the edge "stick" and "rock" in places where it shouldn't have been doing so.  Even my Gold Seals had some uneven spots and highs/lows along the edges.  The factory sharpening is only good to check alignment; it gets really dull after an hour or two of use.  I have the pro shop sharpen all of my freestyle students' blades once the alignment's okay.

QuoteMy instructor gave me the name of her "old" sharpener in Nashville, but she wouldn't say who she uses locally, so I'm convinced it's a conspiracy of silence.

The same thing happened to me but I found a really good sharpener on my own, at another rink.  Apparently, the coaches didn't want to send skaters to a different rink.

What's funny though, is that he complained that the coaches in that rink sent their skaters elsewhere to buy figure skating equipment, which is why he didn't have much in stock.  He later had a falling-out with management and started his own, standalone shop in a shopping center near his home.  We went there a few times, but he ended up closing his doors without notice.  We drove 25 minutes to drop off a pair of skates for sharpening and the storefront was vacant. 

A few months ago, I found out that he still sharpens for *some* of his customers, but he keeps it quiet for some reason.  Maybe the other coaches knew he was unreliable? 

I dunno what his story is, so I settled for the guy at our pro shop who has to take them offsite overnight and always complains that my RI edge is low.  (It's because I always do one-foot hockey stops.)

Quote from: Skate@Delaware on February 20, 2012, 05:11:39 PM
After you've skated in your boots a while, they will "stretch out" a bit. It helps if you have them heat-molded (which I'm sure you can have done at the good pro-shop).  If they still bug you, have them stretched out a bit. Most fitters/pro shops can stretch them (up to one full size I'm told).  If it's only a few areas that hurt, have those spots "punched out" which will give you great relief.

My "temporary" skates (Riedells) have already stretched to the point where my feet slip when I try to do certain moves and I have to lace them very tight to keep my heels locked in place. That's probably why my toes go numb. They did punch the sides of the toes, which was great at first, but now they've shrunk up so the punch-out no longer aligns with the widest part of my foot. Instead, the edge of the punch-out hits right at the base of my big toe, where my foot is widest. Rubs painfully. Since I have the new skates, it didn't really feel worth the 5 hour drive to have them re-punched.

According to Jackson's website, the Classiques are not heat-moldable, otherwise I would have driven the 5 hours to have that done. I think they'll be okay, though. They just need to be fully broken-in, which I can do once I can skate on them.

Quote from: Sk8Dreams on February 20, 2012, 05:29:52 PM
Congratulations on passing your group test!

You don't have to wait to use your new skates.  The blades come with a factory sharpening that should be good enough until you can get to the sharpener.  Just check the bottoms to be sure there is a hollow.  In general, the blades on Jackson sets are OK.

Thanks! I was thrilled to pass that test.

The factory sharpening on my Classiques is pretty dull. The edges feel blunt to the touch. Not sure how they'd be to skate on, especially since my coach is trying to teach me to glide on the outside edge. But it's okay, I only have one more class in my "temporary" skates and then I'm off to Nashville to get the new skates sharpened.  ;D

Now I just have to figure out which radius to ask for. I've read conflicting reports on ROHs and have received conflicting advice. A book I read suggested 1/2" for beginners, but I later learned that's way off. I either want 3/4" or 5/8", not sure which is more appropriate for my skill level.

I wouldn't worry about asking for a specific ROH.  Tell the sharpener you want a beginner sharpening.  They will do what they recommend for you (and you can ask them what they used).

If you ask for something specific, they might think you know exactly what you want, and not tell you if they recommend something different for beginners.

I've found that around here almost NONE of the skaters know what their ROH is.  The sharpeners do "beginner", "freestyle" and "advanced freestyle".  My sharpener told me what mine was once, but I don't remember what it is anymore. 

Quote from: Orianna2000 on February 21, 2012, 12:25:52 AM
Now I just have to figure out which radius to ask for. I've read conflicting reports on ROHs and have received conflicting advice. A book I read suggested 1/2" for beginners, but I later learned that's way off. I either want 3/4" or 5/8", not sure which is more appropriate for my skill level.

You don't need to ask for a specific ROH.  You should make an appointment with the skate sharpener since you're new.  Just say you're an "Adult 1" or "Beginning" skater and they'll know what to do.  Our sharpener keeps notes on what setting he uses for each pair of skates.

The only exception I would make is if you're really heavy, a deeper hollow helps make the edges easier to hold.  Other than that, you'll be fine on the default ROH for your level.

There's a good thread, with illustrations, here: http://skatingforums.com/index.php/topic,2220.0.html

Thanks for the advice. I did ask the sharpener what ROH he recommended, but his answer was based on "beginner with beginner blades" so I was a little confused, since my blades are more advanced than I am. I'm sure he'll know what to do, though.

ITA a good sharpener knows what to do...I never let him know, but he always gets it right. 

QuoteThe only exception I would make is if you're really heavy, a deeper hollow helps make the edges easier to hold.

I think it is actually the other way around.  The lighter you are, the more pressure you need to carry an edge, therefore a deeper hollow.  If you are heavier, a smaller ROH (deeper hollow) will give you too much of a bite. 
On a side note, my sharpener actually believes that a larger ROH is preferable to a smaller one,  because it develops  body lean to control the edge. 

Quote from: irenar5 on February 22, 2012, 04:48:17 PM
I think it is actually the other way around.  The lighter you are, the more pressure you need to carry an edge, therefore a deeper hollow.  If you are heavier, a smaller ROH (deeper hollow) will give you too much of a bite. 
On a side note, my sharpener actually believes that a larger ROH is preferable to a smaller one,  because it develops  body lean to control the edge. 

Well, that makes sense because as I've lost weight my ROH has gotten deeper. Guess you need more "edge" to grab the ice since the weight isn't there.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on February 21, 2012, 12:25:52 AM
I've read conflicting reports on ROHs and have received conflicting advice. A book I read suggested 1/2" for beginners, but I later learned that's way off. I either want 3/4" or 5/8", not sure which is more appropriate for my skill level.

And I will add to the conflicting advice!  IMO, 1/2" is exactly what a beginner should have.  In any case, 1/2" is not "way off" compared to 5/8".  There is only an 8th of an inch difference.

Quote from: Sk8Dreams on February 22, 2012, 11:22:25 PM
And I will add to the conflicting advice!  IMO, 1/2" is exactly what a beginner should have.  In any case, 1/2" is not "way off" compared to 5/8".  There is only an 8th of an inch difference.

Really? I've been reading that 1/2" is only for advanced skaters, and my sharpener agrees with this. He says beginners should have 3/4", those starting jumps should have 5/8, Freestyle skaters should have 1/2", and more advanced skaters should have slightly deeper. I'm really confused now! The skating director at my rink suggested 5/8, but I don't know how well she knows my skating ability, and this was a secondhand recommendation, via my instructor.

Please do not worry about the hollow- you can change it ANYTIME!  I would start with a more shallow hollow and deepen it if you find yourself slipping.  Deepening a hollow takes less metal away than redoing a deep hollow into a shallow one. 

Quote from: irenar5 on February 23, 2012, 02:02:25 AM
Please do not worry about the hollow- you can change it ANYTIME!  I would start with a more shallow hollow and deepen it if you find yourself slipping.  Deepening a hollow takes less metal away than redoing a deep hollow into a shallow one. 

Unfortunately, I can't change it anytime. We live three hours from the nearest guy who sharpens skates, so it's a major affair to drive up there to get this done. I know there is someone who does it for the local figure skaters, but they have a code of silence and I'm not part of their clique, so they won't tell me who it is. Maybe once I'm more advanced they'll let me into their circle, but for now, I have to drive three hours to Nashville just to get my skates sharpened.  :(

Wow!  That's some rink conspiracy!  I am sorry to hear that! 

Is it possible for you to try the blade out in Nashville at a local rink before you have to drive back? 
I skate on 1/2", even though the type of blade that I have has a factory recommendation of 7/16".  Maybe you can split the difference and start at 5/8?  Also, the smaller you are, the deeper hollow you can get away with.  Anyway, there is no precise science to it all, just suggestions and personal preferences.  You would not know what you like  unless you have skated on a certain ROH.  That is exactly how I found out that 7/16 does not work for me!   Start with 5/8 and adjust accordingly next time when you sharpen. 

I'm not sure "trying it out" will help too much though.  It usually takes me 2 skates or so to really get comfortable after a new sharpening, and that's with my standard radius.  Freshly sharp skates are just a different feel.

I probably won't get to test the skates in Nashville. I get too anxious at public skates if there's a lot of people, and being Saturday (the day we're going), it's bound to be crowded. They do have Freestyle sessions, but their rules are ridiculously intimidating. At our rink, anybody can skate Freestyle, you just have to pay and sign your name, and there's usually no more than half a dozen ladies on the ice at any given time.  This place, you have to be a certain level of skater in order to skate Freestyle sessions, plus a whole host of other rules that, to be frank, scared the crap out of me. I don't want to inadvertently break a rule and get in trouble, or cause an accident, so I'll just pass.

If my ROH doesn't work, I probably wouldn't even recognize whether that was the problem or not. I'm a beginner and these are brand new skates that I've never skated in before, so if there's something wrong, I'll be just as likely to blame the skates themselves, or the blades, or the toe-picks, or whatever. I don't know if the ROH would even occur to me as a suspect.

I'll probably just tell the sharpener that I'm a beginner, and let him use his own judgement as to what ROH to give me.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on February 23, 2012, 02:46:18 PM
I probably won't get to test the skates in Nashville. I get too anxious at public skates if there's a lot of people, and being Saturday (the day we're going), it's bound to be crowded. They do have Freestyle sessions, but their rules are ridiculously intimidating. At our rink, anybody can skate Freestyle, you just have to pay and sign your name, and there's usually no more than half a dozen ladies on the ice at any given time.  This place, you have to be a certain level of skater in order to skate Freestyle sessions, plus a whole host of other rules that, to be frank, scared the crap out of me. I don't want to inadvertently break a rule and get in trouble, or cause an accident, so I'll just pass.

I've been lurking here awhile but haven't posted. Since I skate in Nashville, I thought I would finally chime in.
Are you referring to A-Game or Centennial Sportsplex? I don't know much about A-Game, but while Centennial's website has quite extensive rules regarding its freestyle sessions, I can promise you that the atmosphere is actually incredibly relaxed and not intimidating at all! Everyone is very careful and courteous. The level requirements don't mean much--99% of the sessions are open to beginners and they're never too fast-paced for beginners to feel intimidated. If you are working on your edges, stroking, etc, you will be totally fine.

Since Nashville is a hockey town, definitely avoid the public skates which are truly filled with reckless wannabe hockey boys/men of all ages, although there are some rare empty ones, usually the weekday morning ones though.

I get my skates (also Classiques, but an older model with similar MK 21 blades) sharpened by someone at Centennial (possibly the same person you were referred to?) and am very happy with them. I didn't ask for any specific ROH.

Thanks for chiming in, Fiorano!

I knew the Sportsplex has two rinks, but I didn't know there was a third somewhere else in Nashville. Dang! So unfair. I suppose I should be grateful we have a rink at all, here, because we didn't for 10 years.  :-\

I've only just started on forward outside edges and I can't hold them for more than a few seconds at a time, so I don't know if I would be advanced enough for your Freestyle session. I'm in the equivalent of Adult 2, not sure what that would be in the system you guys use. I'm working on turns in place while moving, forward outside edges, and pivots--all of which are quite new and scary to me.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'll be having my lesson and practice session just before we leave for Nashville, so I really couldn't afford a second Freestyle session on the same day, anyway, but I'll keep what you said in mind and maybe the next time I get my skates sharpened, I'll visit your rink. By then I should be more advanced, too. Not necessarily less intimidated, but at least I won't feel quite so much like a fish out of water!

Here's a link to the A-Game rink in Franklin: http://www.goagame.com/moresports/figureskating/index_E.html
from the looks of it, it seems their pro shop seems very basic, but maybe you could give them a call to see if they have any services you'd find useful

I was probably close to your current skill level when I switched to freestyles from public sessions getting too crowded for my taste; I had okay forward inside edges but couldn't hold a right forward outside edge to save my life! Most of the skaters are probably working on various single jumps, with others slightly below and above that. On the freestyle sessions today, there was a little boy (4-ish) taking a lesson in his brand new skates--he was still in that not-stroking-but-marching-while-held-by-the-coach stage, and an older girl still in rental skates working on not needing to hang on to the wall; so "beginner" really does mean beginner! I hope you'll feel welcome at the Sportsplex if you do decide to do some skating here in the future.

We do have a pro-shop, but they mostly stock hockey gear. A few racks of Chloe Noel pants, Mondor tights, and skate guards. Oh, and entry-level Jackson and Riedell skates. That's about it for figure skaters. For hockey, they've got everything you need, including several different brands of skates. I mostly buy my skating gear online. At least that way I don't have the exact same stuff as every other beginner at our rink. Although, I was a little peeved to note that the pro-shop sells a lower-level of the same skating bag I bought off Amazon. It's smaller and has less pockets, but it's the exact same shape and color (an unmistakable purple) so I've had to look twice a few times before grabbing my bag off the benches. (That's why I got myself a luggage tag for my bag--it's got a stylized figure skater embroidered on one side, and my name/phone number on the other side. Comes in handy.)

Thank you for the reassurance about the Sportsplex. I definitely feel better about skating there now. The website with all the "rules" was so intimidating! Especially since our rink is so relaxed. But hearing firsthand that it's not as bad as it seems is great. Hopefully I can stop by to skate the next time we're in Nashville. :)

Quick update. I took my Riedells and held them right up against the Jackson Classiques to compare the toe-picks. The Classiques' toe-picks are about 1/2" longer! I was shocked. I could have sworn that I'd compared them before and found them similar in size, but I guess not. They also have an extra pointy bit on the bottom of the toe-pick that stabs downward, where on the Riedell's the pointy bits all face forward. That's definitely going to make things challenging for me. I'm hoping like crazy that the rocker will be curved enough that I won't trip on the massive toe-picks!

I go tomorrow to get them sharpened, but I won't have the chance to skate in them until next week. I'm hoping to attend Freestyle sometime next week, to give me a chance to try them out and get used to them before having to wear them for my lesson. I guess we'll see.

When I moved to MK Professional blades from whatever beginner blades I'd had on my previous skates, I was also afraid I would spend a lot of time tripping over the toe pick, but it actually didn't happen. I think I almost caught it once on the first day, but stopped myself in plenty of time and never actually tripped. So you might find it's not as much of an issue as you thought.

My husband is currently having the opposite problem, as he's moved from Coronation Ace to dance blades with much smaller toe picks. Means he can no longer drag on the bottom pick to stop himself when going backwards, because if he does that on the dance blades he'll pitch forwards.

All right, so my skates are now sharpened!

The guy told me that one of the blades is defective. Of course it is. . . .

Apparently in all skates there's this strip of sharpenable metal at the edge of the blade, while the rest of the blade is some other material. Only on my skate, there's a layer of unsharpenable metal at the back edge of the skate. Like they didn't trim it off properly at the factory, or something. The result is that the edge won't hold a sharpening. You can feel the difference when you touch the edges, the other edges are very sharp, but the one defective edge is much more dull. The guy tells me that both edges had this defect, but he was able to grind it away on one side. The other side was too deep and he couldn't grind it all away. He says it shouldn't affect my skating too badly--although I wonder, because I am trying to learn to skate on my edges now. If one edge is perpetually dull, isn't that going to affect my skating? But he also says that the problem should go away after they've been sharpened a few times. Of course, I only skate once or twice a week, so it's going to be 4-5 months until I need to sharpen my skates again, which means it's going to take perhaps a year for this problem to go away. Figures.

I'm going to try and get to one of the normally deserted public sessions this week, to try out the new skates. I'd hate to show up for my lesson in them and waste all that paid time trying to get used to the new skates.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on February 27, 2012, 10:37:45 AM
The guy told me that one of the blades is defective. Of course it is. . . .

Can you call the company you bought them through and get a replacement?  That doesn't seem like something you should learn to live with...


Also- very good idea trying to get used to them before your lessons.  I STILL do that after a new sharpening, just to get used to them (and get them dulled up enough I can stop)

Quote from: Skittl1321 on February 27, 2012, 10:41:13 AM
Can you call the company you bought them through and get a replacement?  That doesn't seem like something you should learn to live with...

Well, my sharpener didn't suggest replacing the blades. He said it shouldn't affect my skating much, and the problem would go away after a few sharpenings. The trouble with replacing it is the skates have PVC soles, so they would probably have to replace the entire skate, not just the blade. That would mean having unequal skates, one that's partly broken-in and one that's new. (My OCD would never let me deal with that. Things have to be even and equal.) Plus, I didn't order them directly, I had the guy who runs our pro-shop order them for me, and I paid him for the skates, so I have no idea how that would work.

Hopefully my sharpener is right and it won't affect my skating. But if I find that I'm having trouble holding an edge, I'll figure something out.

Seems to me the pro shop that ordered the skates for you should call the manufacturer & order a whole new replacement pair of skates. That is part of the service you are buying -- the skates and blades should be checked for defects when they arrive and be replaced if there is any problem. You purchased a product with an expectation of a certain quality -- they need to see that you receive the quality you paid for. Skating on a defective blade could cause you to do funny things in compensation for the defect. This could cause you to form bad habits or even lead to an injury. Please don't just accept defects & inferior quality -- the shop & the manufacturer need to make it right!

As for the PVC soles -- it IS possibly to have the blade replaced. For my Riedell 133, they almost replaced the blade before they found that the blade they had wouldn't match the holes in the boot. If the blade in the Classique is attached with screws, then yes it is possible to replace the blade, although you might have to try a few blades before you get the right fit.

Anyway, just to share my experience with sharpening:

My first skates were sharpened soooo sharp, and that became my baseline for sharpening. When I had them resharpened, my instructions were to sharpen it like it was done before. It wasn't as sharp, and since I was skating on hard hockey ice, I found it hard to keep my edge. Eventually, I found the 2nd sharpening to be even better than the first one: turns were more manageable, and the edges weren't that hard to hold.

As for the ROH, the ice makes a lot of difference. My last sharpening was done over a year ago, and I skate maybe around 2x a month on average. I now skate on very soft ice, which is good for my skates. Softer ice requires a lower ROH, while harder ice requires a deeper ROH. It also depends on your weight -- the lighter you get, the deeper ROH you will need.

I suggest asking the sharpener for his recommendations. Then for your second sharpening, tell him your comments so he can adjust accordingly.

Quote from: MadMac on February 27, 2012, 07:50:41 PM
Seems to me the pro shop that ordered the skates for you should call the manufacturer & order a whole new replacement pair of skates. That is part of the service you are buying -- the skates and blades should be checked for defects when they arrive and be replaced if there is any problem. You purchased a product with an expectation of a certain quality -- they need to see that you receive the quality you paid for. Skating on a defective blade could cause you to do funny things in compensation for the defect. This could cause you to form bad habits or even lead to an injury. Please don't just accept defects & inferior quality -- the shop & the manufacturer need to make it right!

Our pro-shop owner is pretty inexperienced. To be honest, I don't know if he would recognize defective blades if he saw them. I'll let my instructor know what the sharpener said, and if she sees any difficulty in my ability to hold an edge, I'll talk to the pro-shop guy. It's been a few months since I bought the skates, so I don't know if he'll do anything now. The sharpener said it shouldn't cause a problem with my skating, so hopefully he's right. It was a nightmare getting these skates in the first place, it took weeks for them to arrive after we placed the order, and then it took another couple of months before we were able to get them sharpened properly so I could use them. So you can see why I'm not enthused about the idea of exchanging them. I would have to keep using my temporary (uncomfortable) Riedell's for weeks, if not months more, and we'd have to take yet another trip to Nashville to get them sharpened. But like I said, I'll have my instructor keep an eye on things and if she sees a problem, I'll talk to the pro-shop owner and see what he can do.

QuoteAs for the ROH, the ice makes a lot of difference. My last sharpening was done over a year ago, and I skate maybe around 2x a month on average. I now skate on very soft ice, which is good for my skates. Softer ice requires a lower ROH, while harder ice requires a deeper ROH. It also depends on your weight -- the lighter you get, the deeper ROH you will need.

I suggest asking the sharpener for his recommendations. Then for your second sharpening, tell him your comments so he can adjust accordingly.

I'm pretty sure we have hockey ice. I'm fairly petite, too. But I just told the sharpener that I'm a "beginner" and he said okay, and never told me what ROH he used. I guess we'll see how it works when I go skating this week.

Update!

I went to a deserted public skate yesterday afternoon. There was one woman and a little girl skating, plus two hockey kids who came and went sporadically. So we had the ice pretty much to ourselves.

When I stepped on the ice, the first thing I noticed was how slippery the new skates were. I mean, I would just stand there, and I would be gliding slowly forward. It was very bizarre, and I can only think that it's because of how sharp the blades were. I also noticed the rocker more than I ever have before. I don't know if the rocker radius of the Classiques is different from that of the Riedell 110s, but I definitely noticed the curve of the blade.

The toe-picks were not much of an issue. I did stumble a couple of times when I scraped my foot and caught the toe-pick. But I'm sure that I'll adjust to them.

I love how snug the skates are. I didn't like that my left toe kept bumping against the toe of the boot. I'll need to try tapping my heel back into the boot harder, to see if I can prevent that from happening again. The snugness, however, is wonderful. It made it so much easier to do stuff! I was effortlessly doing swizzles and backward swizzles, without worrying about my feet sliding around in the boots, or my feet scrunching up in the boots. It was great! I guess I didn't realize that my Riedell's are too big. I mean, I knew they were a little loose, in comparison with the Classiques, but I had no idea what a difference it would make.

So, now for the downside. The arch supports are too high. I have very flat feet. And when I feel around inside the boot, I cannot for the life of me find any arch support. But it must be there, because when I put the skates on, it feels like there are rocks inside, right at my arches. It was fine when I was just wearing the skates around the house to break them in. But on the ice? Ouch! I was able to skate for about ten minutes before I had to sit down. After that, I would skate for about ten minutes, then rest for five. The pain was intense. I think the reason it's so bad is because I have neuromas--tiny cysts on the nerves. The arch support presses right against my neuromas, causing the intense pain. I honestly don't know how I'm going to make it through my 30-minute class this evening.

I'm confidant the arches will break down with time. But what am I supposed to do in the meanwhile? Ugh. (I'm going to start a new thread on this topic, just because it concerns me so.)

Aside from the arch problem, the only other problem I noticed was that the boots were so stiff that I couldn't get a decent knee-bend. I was trying to do turns-in-place and turns while moving, where you go forward, bend your knees, then quickly swivel around so you're going backwards. Only I couldn't bend my knees deeply enough to do it properly. I'd left the top hook undone, but I did loop the bow of my laces around the top hooks, without thinking. Could that have caused the problem? I'll make sure I don't do that tonight, and if necessary, I can leave the top two hooks undone. That will leave me with some very long laces, but I'll find a way to deal with that.

I'll update again after my lesson tonight, to let you know how that goes.

Is the arch support part of the insole? Can you take the insoles out and switch them for a similar thickness flat ones?

I'm glad they fit better than your last ones! I hope they break in nicely for you!  ;D

Quote from: taka on March 01, 2012, 12:12:18 PM
Is the arch support part of the insole? Can you take the insoles out and switch them for a similar thickness flat ones?

It's hard to tell. When I touch the insole, I don't feel more than the slightest raise to indicate an arch support. I don't know if there's something beneath the insole, perhaps? It almost feels like it's on the side of the skate, rather than the bottom, but again, there's nothing there, so I really don't know. I'm planning to go to Wal-Mart tomorrow and buy some sneaker insoles, to see if those are any better.

Could it be the raised heel? Skates have raised heels compared to dress shoes, and there's another thread in this forum (can't find where it is though) that discusses the difference between the heel of the Jackson and the Riedell -- I think Jackson has the higher heel? Other users can perhaps confirm or correct this.

My Riedell 133 has very very flat insoles. If your Classiques also has very flat insoles, then it must be the shape of the boot itself. Since the boot is not flat under the insole, the boot forces your foot to bend in some way, and maybe the Jackson heels are too high for you...just my 2 cents worth, not an expert on this.

I do have trouble wearing high-heeled shoes, but this is a very different sort of pain. It feels much like there's a rock under my arch.

When I removed the insoles, I discovered that there is a raised arch. It's part of the boot itself, plus there is a layer of foam padding over it (non-removable). I've been working with the arch, pressing on it and rubbing it, to try and break down the foam. But since I can feel a hardness beneath the foam, I know it's part of the boot. I can only hope that flattening the foam will be enough to make it tolerable.

If breaking it down doesn't work, I honestly don't know what I'll do. Thicker insoles won't help, since the arch is right at the juncture of sole and boot, along the side, meaning it's not directly under the insole, but up on the side of the boot a little.

I should have known I'd have a difficult time finding skates that work. I can't even buy normal shoes that fit comfortably!  :-\

Quote from: Orianna2000 on March 06, 2012, 10:23:30 PM
When I removed the insoles, I discovered that there is a raised arch. It's part of the boot itself, plus there is a layer of foam padding over it (non-removable). I've been working with the arch, pressing on it and rubbing it, to try and break down the foam. But since I can feel a hardness beneath the foam, I know it's part of the boot. I can only hope that flattening the foam will be enough to make it tolerable.

If breaking it down doesn't work, I honestly don't know what I'll do. Thicker insoles won't help, since the arch is right at the juncture of sole and boot, along the side, meaning it's not directly under the insole, but up on the side of the boot a little.

Ask the pro shop to punch out the boot in that spot.

Can they do that? I'll definitely keep that in mind and if it remains a problem, I'll drive the 5 hours to the figure skating shop and see what they can do. Thanks for the suggestion!

Update!

So, my skating instructor suggested I talk to this guy at the rink (not sure if he's the manager, or what, but he's a High Ranking Individual) about punching the arches in my boots. Because the pain was getting intolerable, to the point where I wasn't looking forward to skating anymore. I could only skate for 5-10 minutes before the pain got so bad that I had to stop skating and either sit down, or, if I was in my lesson, stand at the boards with my feet tilted onto my outside edges, taking my weight off my arches. Then I could skate for another 5 minutes or so, before repeating the process.

I found the guy and showed him my skates, explained the problem, and mentioned my fears that if he punches the arch, leaving a rounded bubble, they won't provide any support at all--and he said that was his concern, as well. So he's going to try stretching the boots at the arch and see if he can flatten it somewhat. He's going to do a little at a time, to reduce the risk of over-stretching them. Because once that happens, that's it, the boots are ruined forever. Basically, it's a gamble, but what choice do I have? I can't keep on skating with the pain so bad.

With my luck with skates thus far, I'm terrified. But we'll see. We're picking up the skates this afternoon and are planning to try them out at the afternoon public session. I'm incredibly nervous! If this works, I'll be able to skate without pain and it will be wonderful. If it fails . . . well. If it fails, I'll have to figure out how to find a new pair of skates. We'd probably have to drive to Chicago, which is something like a 10 hour drive. And even if the skates fit at the store, there's no telling how they'll fit on the ice, but let's not even go there.

I'll let y'all know how it goes this afternoon.

I have high arches but the arch support in my skates I used as a teen was just in the wrong spot which caused cramping and pain like you described. My coach at the time Took my insole out and shaved the arch off wi th a razor blade. Could you try this?

I wanted to do the same thing--cut the arch out--but my hubby wouldn't let me. It's a pretty permanent solution and he's afraid it will ruin the skates.

So, for the update . . . I picked up my skates and the guy says he didn't do anything to them. Apparently he didn't realize they were brand new. He thinks they'll break in, given time. His suggestion is to put on a pair of hot, wet socks and sit in the skates until they've cooled, repeatedly, to speed up the breaking-in process. He also suggests getting some insoles, like Superfeet, because (in theory) they'll lift my foot up away from the arch bump. If, after several weeks, they're still painful, he'll consider punching them, but when he looked at them and compared the punching tools to the area that needs flattening, he couldn't find one that looked like it would work. So he's very reluctant to try punching them.

Guess I'm off to buy a pair of Superfeet.

If you don't mind, could you please post your measurements on the board, and if you're comfortable, pictures of your foot, including your arch? My guess is that the Jackson Classique 7C is too narrow for you, that's why your foot feels the bump on the sides of your foot.

It could also be that your pro shop ordered your REAL size, without adding the recommended 1/4" toe room. In my case, the local pro shop told me I was a size 4 in Jackson. That's my actual size in Jackson, but a size 5 works better for me, with the extra 1/4". My real size is 4D, but I find the 5C okay. Same thing with Riedell: I am size 3.5 D or E (off the charts) in Riedell, but 4.5B works really well.

Please refer to this site for the fitting instructions:"
http://ontheedgepei.com/jackson-selection-and-fitting-guide/
http://www.usaskates.com/jacksonsizingchart.html)

You must have somebody else to do the measurements for you, because bending over and doing the measurements yourself will cause your foot to shrink or expand accordingly.

I will try to have my husband take measurements and photos of my feet tonight. It would make sense that my feet are too wide across the arch, since they're so wide across the ball, as well.

Our local pro-shop doesn't do fitting (they sent me home with a size 8, when I'm actually a 6.5 in Jacksons and Riedells!). So I was fitted in St. Louis (a 5 hour drive away) where they said I was a size 6.5 and I'm guessing my width was off the chart, since she followed the size all the way to the end of the chart, then flipped it over, as if looking for a continuation. She didn't find anything on the back of the chart, so she flipped it back over and blinked a few times. In regular shoes, I'm a double wide (WW and probably E or EE), but the widest skates we could find within our budget were the Classiques, which don't come wider than C. I ordered the size 7 because the 6.5 felt too short in the toes. I was bumping my toes against the end, and I didn't like that.

They feel wide enough at the toes, but perhaps you're right, that it's too narrow across the arch. When my hubby gets home, I'll ask him to help me measure and photograph my feet. I'm not sure what we can do if that's the case, though. Is there a fix for it?

I remember at the start of this board someone mentioning that men's skates might work for a wider foot. I'm a Jacksons women's 8.5 E and ended up getting a men's wide boot (7W). The women's boot I wanted didn't have the width I needed and ordering customs would have cost $150 more and taken a long time. So I ordered a men's stock boot that fit great. The arches hurt at first, but eventually broke in and I don't feel them anymore.

How many hours have you skated and sat at home in the skates? If it's been over 5 hours, it's very possible that the skates you have are broken in but just a poor fit for your feet.

I hope you can get them to work out, but if not, perhaps you can sell them.

I've skated in them perhaps 2.5 to 3 hours. Not sure how long I've worn them at home, maybe three hours? But not walking around, just sitting. They don't really feel broken in, the boot is still very stiff, to the point where I have to leave the top two hooks unlaced and fasten them with hair bands instead, because otherwise they're too stiff and I can't bend my knees. The rink manager who examined them said they probably weren't broken in yet, and that's why he was reluctant to punch or stretch them.

Update: We went to a running shoe store where they sell Superfeet. They did not carry the yellow Superfeet, which are for ice skates. Apparently those are a specialty item and have to be ordered online. Instead, they sold us 3/4 inserts meant for women's shoes with less than 1" heel. I guess they don't carry the kind for higher heels, since it's a store for athletic shoes. In any case, the prevailing attitude was, "You might as well try them. If they don't help, bring them back and we'll try something else." When I tried them in the skates, they did seem to take the pressure off the arch. They made the ball of my foot hurt, though, right in the center. The package warns that discomfort is common at first, until your feet adjust to being properly supported, so that may disappear with time. There's no telling how they'll feel on the ice, but well see. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Someone asked for my measurements and photos of my feet, so here we go. My right foot (my bigger foot) seems to be approximately 9 and 1/4 inches in length. It is 4 inches across the widest part, or 9 and 3/4 inches if measured all the way around. According to those charts, that would put me in a 6 E or maybe 6.5 E for Jackson skates. When I tried the 6.5, my toes hit the front, which is why I went with a 7.

Top View:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7068/7001122757_3410fea6b5_b.jpg)

Side View:
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6038/7001122789_d4205bbf71_b.jpg)

It takes hours of skating to break in skates - at least 12-15, in my experience for the stiffer Jacksons.

Sometimes, Omega Sports has the SuperFeet Yellow in stock, but it is the end of the recreational skating season, so they might have sold out.  You can just order them - sign up for the mailing list and get a discount coupon or ask the store manager to place the order and save shipping.  (Deals change from time to time of course)

Your arch also looks very flat, so perhaps you can talk to your skate tech about mounting your blades slightly to the inside , so that you are not fighting your natural tendency to roll to the inside.   At our rink there are a lot of skaters with pronation, so the mounting seems to solve some of the issues according to our tech.

Amazon carries the yellow Superfeet, and there's also a "custom gray" Superfeet insert that's for skates, but custom-fitted. I'd have to drive five hours to get to a dealer that sells them, but if the 3/4 arches don't work, we'll probably do that.

I do have trouble staying on my outside edges, but it never occurred to me that it might be caused by my flat feet. Makes sense, though, if I'm rolling inward. As far as remounting my blades, I've been told that most skate techs are reluctant to do anything with PVC soles. I guess they aren't as easy to work with as leather soles. But I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Would shifting the blades help with the arch pain, too? Or just with the pronation?

I would think mounting may help with pain if you lessen the pressure over the inside part of the boot?   I would check with a tech about that.

I have normal arches and had some similar pain with one of Riedell models initially, but it went away after a few hours of skating (3-5). Your pain sounds pretty extreme, though.  Perhaps you could email pics of your feet to the manufacturer (Jackson, right?) and ask them for a suggestion?

Jackson has a new model: the Elle, which is made in widths B,C,D and has a stiffness rating of 35 (the Classique and the Freestyle have stiffness ratings of 45). I do not know which US retailers already have the Elle in stock, but maybe you can email Jackson Marketing about your fit problem and they might have some helpful comments.

Based on my experience, Jackson replies after around 2-3 days, but they are very cautious about recommending sizes. Maybe you can tell them about your problem so they can give you a more assertive answer.  ;)

Any idea how much the Elles cost? I saw them at Jackson's website, but I haven't been able to find any online retailers that carry them. That might be an option, if the inserts don't work. A less stiff boot would be nice, too.

I have my skating class tomorrow, so I'll get to try the 3/4 inserts and see how they do.

Here's a question. I was told to soak my socks in hot water and then put on my skates and sit in them until the socks cool, to help break in the boots faster. Would I do this with or without the 3/4 inserts?

Also, would the 3/4 inserts work as well if I put them underneath the boot's insole? Or do they have to be above the insole to work? I only ask because the inserts are hard plastic and the edge of the insert, where it ends just beneath the ball of my foot, creates a little ridge that rubs against the bottom of my foot and bothers me. I have always been extra sensitive to bumps and ridges and "things" in my shoes. My mom calls me "the Princess and the Pea", LOL. Maybe I wouldn't notice the ridge if I wore socks, but I wear skating tights, so it's noticeable. Due to the nature of the inserts, I'm not sure if they'll work if I put them under the boot's insole, but I was wondering about it. Any thoughts on that?

I don't anyone who still does the "damp socks" approach.  The boot paddings today soak up that moisture.  Two experienced fitters told me it makes the skates moldy unless you air dry them well afterwards, so they don't recommend the technique any more.

The new technique (which TimDavid clued me into) is to put plastic bags over your socks and then wear the skates for skating.  Makes your feet get warm/sweat but the moisture doesn't get into the boots, it just heats them up to mold a bit.  Also provides a little protection against rubbing and pain.

I would definitely put the insoles inside during break in - you want the boot to mold with them in place so your foot's in the right places.  Using a hairdryer to pre-warm the boots will accelerate the process.

I know what you mean about the ridge - I can feel it too.  You'll have to try it both ways to see if it can work for you or if you need another insole.  I would first try the insole under the original insoles or a flat replacement insole.  That's one of the things I liked about the Superfeet insoles - they're full-length, so they can just replace the entire insole.  (Although I really like the leather insoles from Klingbeil much more than foam, felt or fabric.)

Quote from: Orianna2000 on March 20, 2012, 08:45:25 PM
Would shifting the blades help with the arch pain, too? Or just with the pronation?

If your arch pain is actually muscle cramping from trying to compensate for the pronation, moving the blades over a bit may help... particularly if you find yourself "stuck" on inside edges much of the time, however, from reading the last page or so of this thread including your pictures and measurements, I have to say that I don't think you're ever going to be 100% comfortable in these skates, and that is because they're simply not wide enough for your feet... no amount of trying different insoles will help that... stretching may help, but that can only do so much and I really don't think you would be able to get enough width that way.  My feet are pretty close to the same length as yours, but not quite as wide (mine measure 9 1/8" around) and I can't imagine skatig in a C width boot... it would be torture.  I wear a 6.5 with an E ball with a B heel.

Wearing too narrow boots goes beyond "can I get my feet in them and lace them up" - you're basically forcing your foot into an unnatural position because it can't lay flat (side to side) in the boot.  Your foot actually has 4 arches... and I think compromising the metatarsal arch is really what contributes to a vast majority of foot pain, but more importantly the entire foot can't function correctly.

I definitely understand this is a frustrating process (I have been badly fit more than once in my skating life - one of those resulted in surgery to fix a problem created by trying to "tough it out" with a pair of boots that was much too narrow), but I would definitely contact Jackson and see which models can be made in an E (or EE) width.. I know that the Premiere boot can be made as an E because I asked about it last year, and the Elle and Freestyle may also be included, I just don't know.  The normal fee for ordering a non-stock (or if you need it split - narrower heel with a wider ball) width is $50.. if you want to make more changes than that to a boot, the cost goes up significantly, but I do have to say that these are your feet, and it's not worth risking an injury or permanent damage to save some money now - it's worth spending a little more to make sure that they fit well.

I would honestly consider trying to return the classique's - whoever sold them to you did so knowing they were not even close to the right size, which is really questionable IMO.

I would not wear wet socks in your boots... as mentioned it's really not a good idea.

Quote from: FigureSpins on March 21, 2012, 10:42:45 AM
That's one of the things I liked about the Superfeet insoles - they're full-length, so they can just replace the entire insole.  (Although I really like the leather insoles from Klingbeil much more than foam, felt or fabric.)

My husband uses the yellow (skating) Superfeet and according to him, the package specifically says to put the insert in underneath your regular insoles. It doesn't replace the insole, it augments it. You would get to keep your nice leather insoles, but still have the benefit of the Superfeet insert underneath them. I thought it sounded strange, but he insists that's what the instructions said to do.

Quote from: sarahspins on March 21, 2012, 10:58:11 AM
I would honestly consider trying to return the classique's - whoever sold them to you did so knowing they were not even close to the right size, which is really questionable IMO.

The guy who sold me the Classiques didn't fit me for them. Our pro-shop owner is new to the business and hasn't a clue about fitting skates. First he sold me a pair of size 8 Glaciers (when I'm a 6.5!) and when it became clear that I needed a smaller size in a wider width, he offered to special order whichever skates I wanted to try. I guessed that size 7 would fit best, and they didn't come wider than C, so that's what we ordered. He didn't check the fit when they arrived, he just handed them to me and let me decide whether to buy them or not.

The thing is, they don't feel that tight in the toes. I mean, the left boot is fine. The right boot touches my foot at the widest part, but it's not painful, just slightly annoying when I'm walking around. I don't even notice it while skating. The only pain comes from the arches. I can see how the problem might be that my foot is too wide across the arch, and that's why I'm feeling the bump. It makes sense, especially since the left boot takes longer before the arch starts to hurt. That foot must be a little narrower than the other.

QuoteI would definitely contact Jackson and see which models can be made in an E (or EE) width.. I know that the Premiere boot can be made as an E because I asked about it last year, and the Elle and Freestyle may also be included, I just don't know. 

I'm uncertain about special ordering an extra wide width, for a couple of reasons.

1. Unless I can get the Elle, it looks like it would have to be a skate that's stiffer than what I have now. I'm only in Adult 2, I'm learning edges and two-foot turns and pivots. My skates are already so stiff that I have to use elastic hair bands at the top two speed hooks instead of lacing them up, because otherwise I can't bend at the knees properly. I can't imagine a boot that's any stiffer!

2. I would have to special order them through my pro-shop (if they're capable of ordering special widths, which they might not be) or else drive 5 hours to the nearest figure skating shop and have them special order the E width. That means it would be difficult to return them. Most places I've seen won't give refunds once the skates have been sharpened, which means I can't test them on the ice to see if they truly work. So if they're still too narrow, or if the arches are still too high, or if there's some new problem--then I'm stuck with a fourth pair of skates that I can't wear.

Even so, I will give this consideration. Right now I feel like Tantalus: every step I take towards the water, the water recedes. It's right there, but it's forever out of reach.

QuoteThe normal fee for ordering a non-stock (or if you need it split - narrower heel with a wider ball) width is $50.. if you want to make more changes than that to a boot, the cost goes up significantly, but I do have to say that these are your feet, and it's not worth risking an injury or permanent damage to save some money now - it's worth spending a little more to make sure that they fit well.

I agree that it's better to pay a little extra and reduce the risk of damage. It's just a LOT of money when this is only a hobby for me. I love skating and I would hate to have to quit. But at what point do I say, "This is costing too much"?  :-\

Regarding the split width boots, how do you find out what heel width you need? I suspect I have narrow heels, since I've always had to add stick-on heel grip pads to my dress shoes. Without them, my heels slip out of the shoes with every step. In my old Riedells, my heel constantly slipped when I walked, unless I laced so tightly that it cut off my circulation. I haven't noticed that problem with the Classiques, but they have thick memory foam around the heel and ankles. Sooner or later, that's going to wear down and then there might be a problem with heel slippage. Especially with the new inserts, which lift my foot up slightly--it means my heel is no longer in the same place, so there might be slipping. I won't know for sure until I try skating in them. But in any case, is there a way of measuring to find out whether you need a narrower heel?

Is it possible to get skates that are extra-wide and are split-width with a narrow heel width? How much extra would something like that cost?

Just out of curiosity, if my boots are too narrow (and I agree that they probably are), will the inserts make a difference? They'll lift my foot up to where the boot is slightly wider, right? So will that help prevent damage to my feet? I'm just wondering whether I should start saving up for a pair of extra-wide skates even if the inserts stop the pain.

I checked my Superfeet directions.  They say to remove the original insole, put it on top of the Superfeet insole to measure and trace before cutting the SFinsole.  The instructions then say to put "the insole" inside.  "The insole" is the Superfeet insole, which is an aftermarket replacement insole, not an augmentation.  There is a comment about dress shoes without removable insoles and how you're supposed to put them on top of the glued-in insole or get their slim version, but that's not the same thing.
http://www.superfeet.com/users-guide/#original

I tried the superfeet under my leather insoles, but because Klingbeil had already created an orthotic-like insole, it wouldn't fit comfortably.  (Too thick and double arch supports!)  Glad it works for your husband, though.

Slightly OT:

Pro Shops just don't carry inventory anymore, especially for adults, absolutely for men's sizes.
Adults have to expect to order their skates.

Since I am in between sizes and wanted stock boots that weren't a model they usually carried, I took a risk on my Jackson boots.  I wish I had paid the shipping/return cost on two different-sized pairs in order to try them both on.  I think I would have found one width smaller to be a better fit.

Hindsight is 20/20, but that's my 2¢

Call Jackson. Their people are good, and they want you to be happy (and a long-time customer). Or, e-mail them.  I would suggest that if you FAX them tracings of your feet, and measurements (go on the Harlicks website for how to measure a foot, and have somebody do it) - they will help you out.

It's a choice.  You can pay now for skates, or you can maybe end up paying the podiatrist/physiotherapist etc potentially after you damage your feet. I know that's it's hard to find the cash ... my physio rates start at $85 for an assessment, and $60 for treatment.  Fortunately, my benefit plan covered the $1,000+ that it cost (and still costs) for the damage to my kid's achilles from misfitting skates.

What about the guy who sold you the skates?  Any chance he'll help you out?

I doubt the pro-shop guy will do anything. I've had the skates for a few months now, they've been sharpened and skated in. I wouldn't expect him to take them back at this point. And it's not his fault they're too narrow. He didn't measure me or try to fit me. He just was the relay, ordering the skates on my behalf.

I told my husband about the huge discrepancy between what I measure at and what my skates' width is and he was surprised. Surprised and resigned. If the inserts don't make a tremendous improvement, I imagine he'll be willing to buy me a pair of extra-wide skates. He won't be terribly happy about it, but he'll do it. He likes the difference skating has made in my life. I have more stamina now, I'm getting exercise. It's good for me and he knows that. So he'll do what needs to be done.

Regarding narrower heels or split width.. it's not that I have a "narrow" heel necessarily, it's that I have a completely average sized heel compared to the rest of my very wide foot.  It's a bit of a trial and error thing... I had heel slipping issues before I had custom skates as a teenager (before my feet were as wide as they are now) so I just went with the split width when I got my Jacksons.

As far as width "feeling" okay.. I have a pair of Harlick Finalist boots (I bought them for the blades they had on them) that are a 6.5A.  I can "fit" my feet into them and lace them up fine, but I really wouldn't want to skate in them... it's not overtly painful right away, but just leaving them on my feet for a while gets pretty uncomfortable... and that's without any weight on them, I can't imagine how much worse it would be on the ice.

I still feel that ANY pro shop who would just blindly order a pair of boots and hand them over without checking fit is irresponsible.  At that point why not just order from any online store and most likely pay much less?  There are some online stores out there that really are top notch and even ordering with special options is not a problem.

I would definitely recommend that you talk to someone at Jackson.. you can call or email and they are extremely helpful and usually reply to email within 24 hours. Even if you don't end up ordering something else now, you would at least know for the future what they suggest in terms of size/width/stiffness, and maybe avoid some of this with your next pair.  Boots don't last forever, so it's still information you'll need at some point :)

Orianna, I'm sorry you're having such a problem with your boots.  Given how much time has passed, I agree with you that the pro shop will likely not be willing to help out much at this stage.  Sk8tmum gave you good advice in telling you to contact Jackson directly - if they can't help you, it's likely they can put you in touch with a recommended dealer who can.

If you do decide to change boots but stick with Jackson, you are going to need to get to a Jackson-recommended fitter who will stand behind what they sell you, and make good any errors (eg: incorrect sizing!)  It could also be that the Jackson last is not the best fit to your foot; and you need to try on other brands.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on March 21, 2012, 01:10:54 PM
Is it possible to get skates that are extra-wide and are split-width with a narrow heel width? How much extra would something like that cost?

Yes they can; that's what they did for me.  I take a Jackson 9, and and measured A heel, E ball; so 3 width differences from stock.   (I then punched the boots out mercilessly right at the ball, so they're now effectively an F in that spot!!  :D)  I just grabbed a tape and measured my feet for reference (remember that my measurements are not professional).  As best as I can tell, at the ball I measure 9.5 inches around; at the arch just behind the ball I measure 9.25 inches around.

Jackson make the heel one size narrower than the ball as a matter of course, so an A heel would come standard with a B ball.  Then go out to a C ball (1st change) then D (2nd change) then E (3rd change).  I'm in Australia and the pro shop I ordered from charged a pretty significant uplift on the semi-custom fees, so I'm not sure what you'd pay locally.  I think I read somewhere that they charge $50 for the first change from stock, or $170 (? - can't remember exactly now) for 2-4 changes from stock.

I don't know for sure, but think the first level Jackson will do split widths might be the Freestyle (stiffness 45, same as Classiques)?  Not sure if they take the Freestyle past the standard D width though.   I do know that they'll take the Premiere (stiffness 65) out past D, as that is what my friend had to buy to get a wider boot.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on March 21, 2012, 01:10:54 PM
The thing is, they don't feel that tight in the toes. I mean, the left boot is fine. The right boot touches my foot at the widest part, but it's not painful, just slightly annoying when I'm walking around. I don't even notice it while skating. The only pain comes from the arches.

Could you post a photo of your boots from the top (inside with the tongue pulled forward) and sides, and put an arrow on the photos where they're hurting?

I'm going to investigate the Elle skates, because they're slightly less stiff than what I have, and they come in a D width. If I can find someplace to try them on, that would be ideal. I'd like to find out whether I need a split width or not. Is there a way to measure your heel to see what size it is, or do you just have to try skates on and see?

Here's the photo of the inside of my skate. I removed the insole, so you can see the area where it kind of swells up at the arch. That's where it hurts. I drew a line to indicate the area, but really it's the whole raised area, not just the edge, but the whole raised arch. Feels like I have a rock inside my boot when I skate, if that helps.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/7004698339_f457ff2fce_b.jpg)

I just thought of something - have you tried skating in the boots without *any* insole in there to see if your arches feel the same?  Some skates don't come with thicker insoles like Jacksons do (like SP Teri or Harlick), and while Jacksons may be made to fit best with that insole, I don't think there is any rule that says you have to use it, or even a similar style insole.  If you don't want to skate on the bare boot inside, you could get the thin flat "trim to fit" (and they're cheap - about $3) insoles that are sold everywhere and cut them to size (and not be out much to try it).

The insoles are pretty flat. The arch bump is built into the skate itself, so I don't know that removing the insole would change anything. But I'll give it a try tomorrow. As you can see in the photo, there are nail heads and stuff, so I would need some kind of insole to protect my tights from snagging. We're still considering the "custom gray" skating insoles from Superfeet, so that's an option, too.

It seems that it is an arch problem. If you say that the toes are okay and the heel is not slipping, then the boot has to be adjusted only in the arch area.

I am with the suggestion that you send these pictures to Jackson. Like Isk8NYC, I wouldn't recommend using the wet socks technique -- if those won't work, they would significantly decrease the resale value of your skates. The Classiques aren't heat moldable, so before trying anything, I think it's best to consult Jackson.

If Jackson tells you there's nothing that can be done, then maybe reselling is the best option. I know it's not the most desirable solution, but at least you'll be able to recover some of the cost.

As for trying another brand: I was able to fit Edea Overtures, and I don't think they would suit your feet since they are more suitable for high arches. I remember you had Riedell before the Jackson, what width were you in? How did it feel in the arch? Perhaps all you need are wider Riedells (men's sizes, perhaps). The Riedell 133, which costs about the same as the Classique, is heat moldable (I had mine heat molded at a pro shop, no problems with the sole at all). It might be a model worth considering if you decide to sell the Classique.

I know the agony of arch pain, and how it makes it impossible to skate for more than about ten minutes at a time (half hour private lessons were torture for me). Although I don't think my pain as from the same cause as yours, the solution was still to buy new boots. I did manage to sell my old pair on Ebay though. As they had no creases and only one small scratch, they were pretty much as new, so the buyer was very happy with them. So you may well get some money back on your previous pair.

I also agree that perhaps a different brand might be the answer, given the nature of the problem with the Jacksons.

Unfortunately, Riedells do NOT fit my feet at all. I tried numerous versions and they all were uncomfortable. My previous pair of skates were Riedell 110s, size 7. The arches were fine, but they only came in full-sizes, so they were slightly too big. And they didn't come in wide widths, so they were too narrow. The shop lady punched the toe box out, but the punch-outs shrank, so by the time we got back home (a five hour drive) the skates were too narrow again and the edge of the punch-out hit right at the widest part of my foot, rubbing painfully. Plus, the back of the ankle cut into my ankle quite painfully. It's not that noticeable when I'm skating with knees bent, but the problem is that the boot angles inward, while my ankle angles outward. Hard leather wins against soft flesh! When I stand upright, the upper back edge of the boot cuts into my ankle (achilles tendon). Even with Bunka gel sleeves, it hurts, and I worried about doing permanent damage to the tendon. Doing pivots was impossible, because I couldn't arch my foot the right way without the ankle cutting in and causing agony. Now, maybe it would be different if I tried a pair of Riedells that actually were wide enough. But I just haven't had good experiences with that brand.

If I need new skates, we'll probably drive somewhere with a larger selection than the skating shop we visited in St. Louis. They were pretty small and were out of stock of almost every skate in my size. I'd like to be able to try different heel widths, and perhaps a few different brands. Maybe someplace in Chicago? It'd be an 8 or 9 hour drive, I think, but I don't know what choice we have. I'd really like to try the Elle. I definitely don't want to go stiffer, because the Classiques are already too advanced for the level I'm skating at. I can't do forward stroking without scraping the toe picks, because they're so huge. But we'll see.

I'll try contacting Jackson and see if they have any advice. Thanks for that suggestion.

This afternoon I'll get to try skating with the new 3/4 inserts, so we'll see how those work. At this point, I know they are probably only a temporary solution, but maybe they'll make skating in the Classiques tolerable enough that I can have time to save up for a new pair of wider skates. I'd rather not go into debt at this point (using the credit card for new skates) if at all possible.  :P

I do know a few skaters with feet "like" yours (yes, it's guessing based on pictures and descriptions) who have been well suited by Risports.  Something you might want to look at if you do get somewhere with a decent selection.

Risports? Interesting! I thought they were supposed to have a really narrow last. Just another reason not to typecast skate brands. :)

Based on the line you drew- it does seem the skate is too narrow.  If that bump is on the SIDE of the skate, and not the bottom, your foot shouldn't be resting on it.

Without a fitter who knows what they are doing- I don't know how you can tell if you need split widths, and unfortunately you can't order them and try them and return them, since they are "customized".

Skate problems suck.  My first skates (which i actually tried several pairs, and paid a fortune in shipping) felt great sitting down, but as soon as I skated in them (and rendered them unreturnable) they were horrible. I could only skate for 10 minutes at a time. They were too narrow, so I found used skates that fit my budget and sold my brand new ones for barely anything.  It is so expensive to figure out what works.

Yes, the bump is on the side, sort of curving toward the bottom of the skate. I've always had trouble with sneakers that had built-in arch support, because my foot would rest over the arch bump, and it would cause discomfort. But then, I've always had extra wide feet.  :(

I tried on the skates, as suggested, without the insoles. As soon as I stood up I could feel the arch bump pressing against my foot. It was not painful, but rather uncomfortable, and I know from experience that it will only get worse the longer I wear the skates. So wearing them without insoles is a no-go. As I said, tonight I'll try them with the 3/4 inserts and see how that goes. And I'll try to remember to email Jackson and see if they have any advice.

Thanks to everyone who's been trying to help me! I appreciate all the advice and comments.

Based entirely on your photos, my feet seem to be shaped somewhat similarly to yours, only mine are narrow. But the general angle/line of the ball-arch-heel looks very similar. I have Risports (in their narrowest width) and they're the only skates that have ever been truly comfortable for me. I second looking into them if you can't find a solution for your current skates and you can find somewhere to try them on.

Kinzie's Closet has a warning that Risports are only for narrow feet, but I'm not opposed to trying anything on. You never know what will work best. As long as they come in extra-wide, that's all that really matters.

My scheduled practice session fell through this evening. I won't get to go skating until Saturday, now.  :(

Quote from: Orianna2000 on March 22, 2012, 08:16:24 PM
Kinzie's Closet has a warning that Risports are only for narrow feet, but I'm not opposed to trying anything on. You never know what will work best. As long as they come in extra-wide, that's all that really matters.

I will also agree if you can, give Risports a try. Those are the only boots I've been in once I was past the sporting goods store level of boots. I'd heard that Risports were for more narrow feet, and I typically have very wide feet, but they seem to work for me. I don't skate much more than once or twice a week for an hour or two at a time, so it takes my feet some adjustment for the first few minutes of the session, tying too tight/too loose etc, but once I'm in the boots they're great.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on March 22, 2012, 07:46:48 AM. If I need new skates, we'll probably drive somewhere with a larger selection than the skating shop we visited in St. Louis. They were pretty small and were out of stock of almost every skate in my size. I'd like to be able to try different heel widths, and perhaps a few different brands. Maybe someplace in Chicago?

Rainbo Sports in/near Chicago stock a variety of brands and also do fitting (although my husband wasn't happy with the fitting he got from one of Rainbo's satellite stores - since closed).
http://www.shoprainbo.com/shop/site/department.cfm/id/013FF087-475A-BAC0-52868D915945931E/killnav/1 (http://www.shoprainbo.com/shop/site/department.cfm/id/013FF087-475A-BAC0-52868D915945931E/killnav/1)
There's also Triple Toe Skatewear in Woodbridge, IL: http://www.tripletoeskatewear.com/boots-and-blades/ (http://www.tripletoeskatewear.com/boots-and-blades/)

Thanks for those links! We'll definitely check those places out. I wish there was a way to find out if there's a large figure skating store closer than Chicago, because it's an awfully long drive. But Jackson's store-finder only goes out to a 100 mile radius, so it locates nothing. I already tried the figure skating shop in St. Louis. They're pretty small and they only carry Jackson and Riedell. They were out of stock of nearly everything because of the Christmas rush, but I don't know if they normally carry wide-widths anyway. I'd like to try a couple other brands in addition to Jackson and Riedell, so Chicago is probably our best bet.  :P

Orianna2000, maybe you could call the pro shops first before going so they can reserve the sizes for you to fit? I'm sure they would understand that you don't want to waste your long drive.

Oh, yeah. We would definitely call the various shops first, to make sure they have wide widths in stock, before making the drive!  :)

Maybe as well, touch base with a couple of skate manufacturers (jacksons, risport, even Lord knows Riedell - if they were properly fitted, they might work for you) - and see if you can get an idea from them of what sizes you fit.  Right now, you're guessing and speculating. If you can get a better idea, then, you could call ahead and say "I need a 5.5 EEE" which is way better.  Frankly, it is unlikely that they will have an unusual size in much of selection of boots. However, if you say that you've gotten the direction from - say Jackson - that this is the size you need, then, you might get more assistance or even an offer to order in for you to try.

Quote from: Bunny Hop on March 23, 2012, 05:54:18 AM
Rainbo Sports in/near Chicago stock a variety of brands and also do fitting (although my husband wasn't happy with the fitting he got from one of Rainbo's satellite stores - since closed).
http://www.shoprainbo.com/shop/site/department.cfm/id/013FF087-475A-BAC0-52868D915945931E/killnav/1 (http://www.shoprainbo.com/shop/site/department.cfm/id/013FF087-475A-BAC0-52868D915945931E/killnav/1)
There's also Triple Toe Skatewear in Woodbridge, IL: http://www.tripletoeskatewear.com/boots-and-blades/ (http://www.tripletoeskatewear.com/boots-and-blades/)

Mr. Edge from Skating Magazine is in the western suburbs of Chicago also, at the Downers Grove ice arena.  Phone is 630-852-2101 and you will definitely want to make an appointment if you decide to go there for a fitting.

ETA:  he also has a website now, which I found linked on the ice arena website.  www.askmredge.com

Quote from: Orianna2000 on March 23, 2012, 09:14:43 AM
Thanks for those links! We'll definitely check those places out. I wish there was a way to find out if there's a large figure skating store closer than Chicago, because it's an awfully long drive. But Jackson's store-finder only goes out to a 100 mile radius, so it locates nothing.

Have you contacted Jackson about your skates yet?  If you do decide you need to change skates, you really should try on other brands as well.

I don't know what city or state you live in, but I would have thought that if you contact Jackson directly, they will tell you the name/s of your closest dealers?  You could ask for the names of all the dealers between say you and Chicago, then do some pre-investigation before you set off.  (eg: is the dealer hockey-focussed, and has its figure skate range marked "expensive" and "not expensive" - I heard that one in another post - still chuckling over it!!)  Google might be your friend here.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Update!

I tried the skates with the 3/4 inserts, but they failed. The inserts lifted my heel up, which tilted my foot forward, which made my toe picks scrape the ice with every stroke I made. I can't skate like that! It was awful. So I removed the inserts and tried skating without them. The result? Pain. So much pain that it brought tears to my eyes. I paid attention to my feet and I think you guys are right, the skates are too narrow at the arch. It was pressing against the outer edge of my foot as well, and I just never noticed before. The heels are too wide, however, so I'm definitely going to need a split width with narrow heels.

I contacted Jackson today, explaining the situation and asking for advice. Hopefully I'll hear back from them soon. Meanwhile, we're talking about taking the train up to Chicago in a few weeks. I'll wait until I hear back from Jackson, see what they have to say, then I'll call the shops in Chicago and see if any of them have the widths I need in stock. I'm guessing they won't and that this trip will end up being a "fitting trip" only, to find out what size I actually need. Then we'll special order the skates and hope like crazy they work.

Sorry to hear about the inserts not working. I hope that your new fitter can give you the right measurements.

Update!

I finally heard back from Jackson. It almost reads like a form letter, because it doesn't address most of my specific issues or the questions I'd asked. Basically, it says that based on my measurements, I should be wearing a EEEEE width. Yes, you read that right. Quintuple E! Geeze, no wonder I can't find skates that fit comfortably.  :P  They suggest that I get professionally fitted with someone who fits competitive skates, as they'll know more than someone who only fits recreational skates. They also said that the Classique cannot be modified (I assume they mean to make them extra, extra wide) so I would have to buy something from their Premiere or Elite lines.

The thing is, those are rated at 65 stiffness or higher, while the Classique is rated at 45. I already find the Classique so stiff that I have to use ponytail holders for the top two hooks instead of lacing them, otherwise I get no knee bend. The 65 is rated for an Axel or Beginner Double Jumps. I'm still in Adult 2. I don't want to add overbooting to my problems! I think I'll try emailing one of the skate shops in Chicago and see what they suggest.

I wear a Premier.  I'm not extremely heavy, but am overweight for my height, I am not a big jumper (there is a video of me in the video threads).

I find the skate to be stiff.  I would NOT have wanted to wear it during basic skills.


I wonder if you could get fitted by someone who does Klingbeil's or SP Teri or another custom skate.  It will be expensive, but once you get all the modifications you need- that's expensive too.  I would worry an EEEEE to fit one part of your foot is going to mean another part is way too loose -you know?

It sounds for sure that you need to find a fitter.  That sucks since they aren't available locally.

I was looking at Harlicks and there's a dealer in a city just 2 hours away from here. But they're not a preferred dealer, just a standard dealer, so I don't know if that means they're not able to measure for custom boots or not.

What concerns me is, these are $750 skates, if I get extra wide and split width. Yet, the website says custom skates are non-returnable, non-refundable. Shouldn't they guarantee their work? Suppose the skates are too wide. Or the arches hurt. Or some crazy little thing that means I can't wear them. They really expect me to pay $750 for a gamble that their skates will fit me? They're not going to have EEEEE widths in stock for me to try on, after all. Their stock boots only go up to a D width. I can't justify paying that much money for something that may or may not work. Now, if they took casts of my feet and literally made the boots custom to fit my feet, then maybe I could see paying that much for them.

I don't know, I'm just feeling very frustrated right now. I don't have an extra $750 laying around for custom skates. I was hoping this could be solved for less than $300. Maybe that was naive. . . .

Quote from: Orianna2000 on March 27, 2012, 03:42:58 PM
Now, if they took casts of my feet and literally made the boots custom to fit my feet, then maybe I could see paying that much for them.

I don't know, I'm just feeling very frustrated right now. I don't have an extra $750 laying around for custom skates. I was hoping this could be solved for less than $300. Maybe that was naive. . . .

I'm pretty sure this is what they do for custom skates.  You stick your foot into molds (eta- oh, I see Harlick doesn't- only to make an orthotic for the boot).  Of course, I'm not sure that is a guarantee that you like them. Just that they fit your feet.  

But I totally fee your pain on the cost issue.   The thing is- how many pairs of $150-$300 skates are you going to have to buy to find the ones that work?  


Normally I'd say that for an adult- it is worth it.  You are going to be in those  skates for a long long time.  Your feet are done growing.  But a beginner- you'll likely want new skates when you get to freestyle.  But are you in so much pain that without them, you won't be able to make it?

They might be worth calling to talk to them about your options, if nothing else.  (And remember Harlick's D width is different from Jackson's - who knows what their stock boots will be like).  You might want to clarify that split widths/extra wide add to the cost of the boot- I mean- isn't that entirely the point of custom boots, that you get that?

You're right, at this point, without better skates, I won't be progressing very far. The thing is, I don't know how far I'll be progressing anyway. I have issues with balance that are interfering somewhat with learning new moves. I have issues with fear that makes it impossible for me to skate fast enough to do the moves properly. Can I get over those with time and patience? Perhaps. If I don't have new skates, I never will. That's for sure.  :-\

I'll have to do some serious thinking and discuss the issue with my husband. We have some other big expenses coming up soon, so this may just have to wait for awhile.

Quote from: Skittl1321 on March 27, 2012, 03:50:23 PM
I'm pretty sure this is what they do for custom skates.  You stick your foot into molds (eta- oh, I see Harlick doesn't- only to make an orthotic for the boot).

That's not an entirely accurate statement, but it is confusing when you think about it - why cast molds and not use them to fit the skates?  But the skatemakers don't.

In addition to Harlick, Klingbeil uses the impression foam for insoles and orthotics only.  Their custom skates are sized through careful measurements to come up with a cutting/construction pattern, similar to sewing a garment. 

Klingbeil used to make the wooden "lasts," or models, of every skater's feet from the measurements, but I don't know if that's still the case since Bill K. passed away.  He was the only one still doing that, iirc.

I don't know of any manufacturers who are using those foam molds to create custom lasts for the actual boot.  Maybe someone else does?

I don't know that you need full customs... and you still run the risk of ending up overbooted even if you ask for a softer boot - I saw that happen last year with someone I skate with, and she never did end up getting what she wanted (from Harlick) and ended up going with Klingbeils, which she has been very happy with... however it was an expensive process and she ended up with a pair of custom boots she still couldn't wear.  

In your position I would most likely drive to Rainbo or Mr Edge (or both) and talk to them... you are not necessarily going to be able to walk away with boots and you may not be able to try everything you want to on, but you can most likely address the split width and what size you'd need there as well as get their opinions on different brands and what may fit you best.  No one says that you have to buy anything just because you're getting a fitting - some places do charge a small fee for their time that can be applied towards a purchase (mostly to discourage people from getting fit in person and then ordering online) but I think it's worth it to spend a little to hopefully avoid ending up with another pair of boots that isn't quite the right size.

Also, sometimes "stiffness" that you feel is really due to the decreased padding in lower model boots.  The Classique's may feel very stiff but that could also be due to the lack of padding inside... higher level boots typically have more padding, and this is definitely true of Jackson's line.  I can take some pictures if you'd like, that show the difference in ankle padding between a Marquis (men's version of the Classique), Premiere, and Elite Plus in similar sizes, the Elite Plus are downright plush inside compared to the Marquis. I've actually skated in my son's Marquis, and they don't feel much less stiff than the Premiere's did... however they are a full size too small for me and very uncomfortable because they don't have as much padding as I am used to.  I wouldn't do it again.

Basically what I am saying is that in the correct size, you may be just fine in something like the Premiere even though it's a stiffer boot because it has more padding inside - it will be more comfortable despite the increase in stiffness.

Anything that you can buy now will likely last you at least a couple of years and by the time you need news skates again, it will be easier/simpler the next time around - you'll have a better starting point in terms of size and how stiff you want in the boot.

Compared to the skates I started out in, the Classiques have uber-padding! My Riedell 110s have virtually no padding whatsoever. Practically bare leather. The Classiques have what feels like 1/2" of memory foam padding everywhere except the insoles, which are surprisingly thin considering how thick the padding elsewhere is. I've tried coaches skates on and they have even more padding, so I'm sure the higher-up skates have a ton of padding. But I could barely fit my foot into the Classiques when I first bought them, and every time I pulled my foot out, I expected to hear a sucking sound as my foot pried loose from what felt like vacuum-sealed padding! They're slightly looser now, but still a very snug fit. (Of course, some of that might be because they're way too narrow.)

Anyway, I don't know what we'll do yet. I mean, I looked at other brands' size charts and I'm multiple E-widths for them, too. It's not just Jackson. A trip to Chicago is going to be expensive, as well as long and tedious (9 hours each way!) so we might be better served putting that money toward custom skates. I don't know. The way I'm looking at it is, if my husband can buy a $700 treadmill for exercise, why can't I buy a pair of $700 skates for exercise? Same principle, right? Still, it's painful to even consider, knowing that even a custom pair might not fit and then I'm ruined financially.

I would personally talk to one of the custom boot makers- Harlick or Klingbeil.  Describe the situation to them,  send them photos and ask them if they feel confident that their  custom product would work for you.  I am sure they have encountered all kinds of feet and in general will have a sense of how it all turns out. Good luck!  Have you had this much trouble with regular shoes as well?

Earlier, somebody posted that they got Men's Wide skates in white.  That could be a solution. 

In terms of both Kling and Harlick.  Both will do an excellent job in fitting your feet; they will fit very nicely, and customs are designed to be used by skaters with unusual feet.

You can get either boot very soft if you want - that's no problem.  You do need to go a fitter that can fit them, however; the fit will only be as good as the measurements that they take.  Our Klings fit by "remote fitter" were nothing like the Klings fitted by "Kling" themselves, despite having the exact same measurements taken, pictures drawn, and "stepping in the foam box" thing happening.

In terms of cost-effectivness ... one option that you do have, with both Kling and Harlick, is having your boots "rebuilt" at a later date.  Thus, if you get soft, beginner-friendly boots now, you can ship them back to the maker later and they will will rebuild them to a higher degree of stiffness.  Which would be good :) and will decrease your cost over time.  You can also request that they have them fit your current blades, which will save you some cash if you still have usable life in the blades.

Harlick will also, as we found out, look at your tracings and, if your feet will fit one of their stock boots (which is a possibility, particularly if they use a men's last) - then, they will fit you in stock boots to save you money.  They'll only recommend customs if they feel that you need them.  However, for both Harlick and Kling, you may be looking at several weeks of waiting time to get the boots, which you will want to factor in ...

Quote from: irenar5 on March 27, 2012, 09:46:22 PM
Have you had this much trouble with regular shoes as well?

Yes. Not quite to the same degree, since regular shoes aren't made to fit like gloves and don't have to be fitted quite so precisely. But yes, I've always had very hard-to-fit feet. Typically, I have to buy my shoes online, from websites that carry double-wide widths. I've always envied women that have "cute" shoes, because I can never find them. Shoes that come in extra-wide tend to be basic and plain, or else ridiculously expensive. I want pretty colors and all the fashionable styles! Alas, it isn't meant to be.

Our skating director did a fitting on Saturday to get my measurements. Looks like I'm pretty consistently a 6.5 in length (but I wear a 7 boot, because my toe kept hitting the end of the 6.5 boot.) As far as width, I'm absurdly wide-footed, which we already knew. She also confirmed that I have a narrow heel, so I'll definitely need a split width heel. She said I certainly don't want a stiffer boot, since I'll never be able to break them in. She suggested I look at Harlick and SP Teri.

So, I've been looking at various customized skates. After looking at SP Teri and Harlick's websites, I'm leaning toward Harlick skates. You can get a EE in their stock boot, which would be a lot cheaper than a fully custom boot. Their sizing chart doesn't go up that high, but judging by the progression of widths, I should be a EE in their skates. You can get a split width for just $30 extra. And they make a boot called X-Line that's designed to be wider at the toe box, fuller at the arch, and narrower at the heel--exactly what I need! I'm still leery of the idea of buying a pair of skates that I can't try on first, but it looks like they're pretty considerate in taking half a dozen different measurements, both sitting and standing, as well as requesting photos of all angles of your feet, to ensure a good fit. So, I'm definitely leaning toward them. We just need to travel somewhere there's a dealer, so I can try them on and make sure they're compatible with my feet, in general. There's a couple of places that are closer than Chicago, so that will be nice.

Harlicks tend to be the boot of choice in the Milwaukee area. I don't know who is up there doing fittings right now (I haven't lived there for a long time), but it's worth a shot. I love my Harlicks!!

Quote from: Orianna2000 on April 02, 2012, 01:43:57 PM
I'm still leery of the idea of buying a pair of skates that I can't try on first, but it looks like they're pretty considerate in taking half a dozen different measurements, both sitting and standing, as well as requesting photos of all angles of your feet, to ensure a good fit.

Wherever you go, make sure they will warrant the fit - in other words, if they take the measurement and it doesn't fit, they will make good, by making a new pair if needed, at their expense.  That way, you're out time, and maybe gas for a new fitting, but not dollars too.

Re remote fitting - my friend just got custom Harlicks remotely ordered from Australia!  We have no Harlicks dealer in the country, so it was remote or nothing.  She's had endless trouble with boots and has tried 2-3 pairs in different brands; Risport (stock size), Jackson (split width), and I think one other brand as well.  She eventually took the plunge, and spoke to Harlicks about doing a custom boot without needing to fly all the way to the USA.    They talked her through the process, arranged measurements, she emailed them plus photos and tracings of her foot, they made boots and mailed 'em over.  She got them a couple of weeks ago, and is delighted.

Would you like me to get you the name of the person she was dealing with?  On the other hand, a fit warranty might only be available if they take the measurements themselves, so that's something to consider.  ETA - I just checked the Harlick website - it looks like they have dealers all over the country so there may be a dealer/preferred fitter closer to you than Chicago.

I will second (third?) Harlicks for excellent fit.  The freaky feet on my kid are thoroughly well fitted in custom Harlicks, and service was excellent.

Like Aussieskater's friend, my husband has also recently got custom Harlicks ordered remotely. Harlick send detailed instructions for making the measurements/tracings, and we sent photos as well. He's still breaking them in (also according to their detailed instructions) and I think is pretty happy so far.

Yes, they are expensive, but if you keep having to buy stock boots then it will add up to the same cost at some point anyway.

I'm definitely leaning toward Harlicks, hopefully customized stock boots, if they come wide enough. I like how they ask for so many different measurements, as well as photos of your feet, so chances seem good that the fit would work. There's a dealer for Harlicks in a city about two hours from us. They're not "preferred" just "standard", but I don't know what that means. If I need a preferred dealer, there's one about six hours from here. Or, I might be going to California soon, in which case there's preferred dealers all over the place! We're going to try the regular dealer first though, since they're closest, and see if they have anything I can try on. Even if it's not the right size/width, it might give me an idea of whether they'll be comfortable or not.

I'll definitely check to see if they'll guarantee their measurements. That would ease my mind a great deal.

A skate shop in a city about five hours from here is hosting the president/founder (not sure which) of SP Teri for the day, to do skate fittings. I emailed to ask about that and was politely told that I couldn't have an appointment because they needed to focus on skaters who were committed to buying skates that day. Apparently you're not allowed to try on skates first if you're going to order customs. I was told I needed to "trust" that the skates would fit. With my track record? You're kidding, right?  :o

Quote from: Orianna2000 on April 06, 2012, 01:56:21 PM
I'm definitely leaning toward Harlicks, hopefully customized stock boots, if they come wide enough. I like how they ask for so many different measurements, as well as photos of your feet, so chances seem good that the fit would work. There's a dealer for Harlicks in a city about two hours from us. They're not "preferred" just "standard", but I don't know what that means. If I need a preferred dealer, there's one about six hours from here. Or, I might be going to California soon, in which case there's preferred dealers all over the place! We're going to try the regular dealer first though, since they're closest, and see if they have anything I can try on. Even if it's not the right size/width, it might give me an idea of whether they'll be comfortable or not.

I'll definitely check to see if they'll guarantee their measurements. That would ease my mind a great deal.

A skate shop in a city about five hours from here is hosting the president/founder (not sure which) of SP Teri for the day, to do skate fittings. I emailed to ask about that and was politely told that I couldn't have an appointment because they needed to focus on skaters who were committed to buying skates that day. Apparently you're not allowed to try on skates first if you're going to order customs. I was told I needed to "trust" that the skates would fit. With my track record? You're kidding, right?  :o

Don't judge whether a custom boot will fit based on if the stock one does.  The custom one is built to your foot, the stock one to their basic boot shape.   The real custom skate makers like Harlick, Klingbeil don't adapt a boot for you, they make a boot just for you...

In terms of SP Teri, that makes sense, he's coming to do fittings for custom, if you want stock boots you go to a dealer.  There is no need to "try on" the stock boot because the custom isn't the same as the stock... And they will make the custom ones fit you! 

Quote from: Sk8tmum on April 06, 2012, 03:43:17 PM
Don't judge whether a custom boot will fit based on if the stock one does.  The custom one is built to your foot, the stock one to their basic boot shape.   The real custom skate makers like Harlick, Klingbeil don't adapt a boot for you, they make a boot just for you...

In terms of SP Teri, that makes sense, he's coming to do fittings for custom, if you want stock boots you go to a dealer.  There is no need to "try on" the stock boot because the custom isn't the same as the stock... And they will make the custom ones fit you! 

How can they make the custom boots fit you exactly when they don't take molds of your feet or anything? Can they do a truly custom fit just by a few photos and tracings?

Either way, I was hoping for custom stock boots, in which case trying the skates on would help determine if it fits my foot or not. It's like Jackson versus Riedell. When I tried on Riedells, they felt "wrong". Even the pair I ended up buying felt wrong. But the Jackson skates, even in the wrong size, they felt "right". If they were wide enough, I know Jackson would work perfectly. But they don't, at least not without over-booting me, so I have to go with something like Harlick, which can be customized for extra wide width. I'm desperately hoping their stock boots will come in my width if I special-order them. If not, I'll have to spend the extra money for customs.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on April 06, 2012, 01:56:21 PMApparently you're not allowed to try on skates first if you're going to order customs.

What would trying on boots that are guaranteed to be the wrong width really going to tell you?  It won't tell you much, and I do know that SP Teri will work with you to make your boots perfect if you don't think they are when you get them.  To fit you in customs, they take tracings of your feet sitting and standing and take a lot of measurements all over your feet and ankles and trace out where your arches are, the shape of your ankles and heels, and other aspects of your feet.  It's not like they just take those measurements to see where you fit into a size chart, they actually use the measurements and drawings to build the boot around the size and shape of your foot. 

When I got my SP Teri customs as a teenager they really fit my feet perfectly... I do think they were made too stiff (I'd already broken down a pair of their stiffest stock books very quickly, which is why my custom pair was made stiffer) for me and that made them harder to break in initially than they should have been, but apart from that I had no complaints about them - and if I'd known enough to ask for flex notches which they had only just started doing back then, they probably would have broken in much easier.  They didn't fit me after I had kids or I would probably still be wearing them.

I do have to say that SP Teri and Harlick are more similar to Jackson than Riedell is.... Riedell is really kind of the only boot that fits the way it does, even the two pairs of Klings I've skated in (not mine) felt more like SP Teri's (but with more padding).  I'm on the fence about what I want to do when I need new boots again... I know that Jackson fits me well and I can order a modified stock boot and be happy with it, but I will be in the bay area this summer and it's VERY tempting to take that opportunity to get measured for customs at either SP Teri or Harlick (leaning more towards Harlick if I were to do that)... and part of me wonders if I can go get measured for customs at the factory and just wait to actually order until later on.

Quote from: sarahspins on April 06, 2012, 05:27:36 PM
What would trying on boots that are guaranteed to be the wrong width really going to tell you?

Whether the edge will cut into the back of my ankle. Whether the arches are too high. Whether the padding hits the right spots. Whether my toes hit the front, and therefore whether I can tolerate a 6.5 or need a 7. All kinds of stuff, really. As I said above, when I tried on Riedells, I could tell they weren't going to work, regardless of which size I tried on. They just weren't comfortable. Jacksons, on the other hand were comfortable, even when I picked the wrong size. Okay, the arch hurt because they were too narrow. But other than that, they were nice.

QuoteIt's not like they just take those measurements to see where you fit into a size chart, they actually use the measurements and drawings to build the boot around the size and shape of your foot. 

That's good to know. Do they actually build a custom last?

QuoteI do have to say that SP Teri and Harlick are more similar to Jackson than Riedell is.... Riedell is really kind of the only boot that fits the way it does, even the two pairs of Klings I've skated in (not mine) felt more like SP Teri's (but with more padding). 

Well, that is reassuring. Every pair of Riedells I've tried on have been ill-fitting and uncomfortable. I bought a pair anyway, because I was desperate to have something to skate in so I could pass my test. But I really shouldn't have.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on April 06, 2012, 03:56:17 PM
How can they make the custom boots fit you exactly when they don't take molds of your feet or anything? Can they do a truly custom fit just by a few photos and tracings?

It's a lot more than that that they do.  And yes it is absolutely a true custom fit.  My kid has freaky weird feet and Harlick made skate boots that fit precisely and perfectly. Not a single uncomfortable point, not a single spot that didn't mold the feet perfectly, and a strength nicely suited to height, weight and preference in underbooting.  Two different sized feet in both length and width plus bony protrusions and very very narrow heels, mismatching arches and protuberant ankle bones... And different length toes on the two feet...

They will also customize backstays.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on April 06, 2012, 05:46:47 PM
Whether the edge will cut into the back of my ankle. Whether the arches are too high. Whether the padding hits the right spots. Whether my toes hit the front, and therefore whether I can tolerate a 6.5 or need a 7. All kinds of stuff, really.

All of those things which are issues with stock boots aren't with customs.. that's one of the advantages of customs :)

Well, after discussing the matter with my husband, we've decided to forgo stock boots and go straight for customs. He's tired of having to buy me new skates all the time, when they don't fit. So, a trip to Atlanta is in order. It's the nearest preferred dealer of Harlicks. We won't be able to go until Memorial Day weekend, since it's such a long drive, so I'll have to find a way to cope with the painful skates, meanwhile.

Orianna, so glad you're going for new boots - painful ill-fitting boots are the worst thing, and from your posts, your current boots are definitely not right for you!  Have you contacted your Atlanta (?) dealer to see if they warrant their measurements?  I don't know how Harlick dealers work - we don't have one here.

Also, will you be selling your incorrect boots locally or on ebay?  Doing so might recoup some of the cost of the new ones.

I'm happy for you Orianna!!! I hope custom boots will end all your skate woes!

I sure hope the new boots end my woes. It's been a nightmare!

I plan to email the dealer in Atlanta to make sure they guarantee their fitting before we drive all that way. If they don't, we might as well stay here and do the measurements ourselves.

And yes, we'll probably sell all three pairs of my old ice skates on eBay or somewhere. It won't add up to a lot, since I've heard you can only ask for 50% of the price if they've been worn at all. So we'll get maybe $35 for the Jackson Glaciers, $20-25 for the Riedell 110s (since they've been punched out), and $70 for the Classiques. Still, every bit helps, right?

Quote from: Orianna2000 on April 07, 2012, 08:32:52 AM
And yes, we'll probably sell all three pairs of my old ice skates on eBay or somewhere. It won't add up to a lot, since I've heard you can only ask for 50% of the price if they've been worn at all. So we'll get maybe $35 for the Jackson Glaciers, $20-25 for the Riedell 110s (since they've been punched out), and $70 for the Classiques. Still, every bit helps, right?

Definitely! Better recover some of the cost than none at all.

check if the place where you're getting the fitting takes in trade-ins or buys used skates.  They may, particularly if you're getting new ones.

You mentioned Chicago before - it didn't even occur to me until just now when I saw Phil from Harlick post on Facebook that they'll be at Adult Nationals doing fittings, and I know the other major boot makers will be there too.

I don't know if Chicago is still in the running or not. The only time we'd be able to go is Memorial Day weekend. We were hoping to drive to Atlanta, which is closer than Chicago, but when I contacted the preferred dealer, it turns out it's a lady who does fittings out of her living room, just so Harlick can say they have a dealer in the area. She doesn't guarantee her measurements, and she's going to be out of town the only weekend we can go.

If I end up going to California, I'm going to try and visit one of the several preferred dealers out there. I've contacted USASkates to see if they'll guarantee their fittings, but the thing is, if I'm back home in TN when the skates arrive, and they don't fit, even if they're guaranteed, I have no way of getting re-measured for the replacement skates. So I don't know if that would work.

We may need to just have our skating director take the measurements, tracings, and photographs, and hope it'll work out. The lady from Atlanta says that Harlick usually tries to make things right, so if the skates don't fit, they'll try to adjust them for me, provided I pay for shipping to send them back. So that may be our best option. At this rate, I'm not going to get my new skates until June or July, if I get measured immediately. If I have to wait until I go to California, it'll be July or August, and if I have to wait for Memorial weekend, it'll be August or September! I don't think I can keep skating in my Classiques that long. It's just too painful. I don't know what to do.

I found a pair of Placid Glider (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Lake-Placid-Glider-4000-Womens-Figure-Skate-Sz-7D-/251020047540?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a71f5f4b4) skates on eBay that come in a D-width. I was considering buying them for "temporary" skates, since they might be wider than the Classiques. But since they only cost $29.99 plus shipping, I'm pretty sure they're going to be horrible. No padding, awful blades, etc. I don't know if they would help or hurt my cause, at this point. The Classiques are so nice, except for the fact that they kill my feet. I would hate to downgrade and perhaps lose momentum and stop making progress. But then, how much progress can I make when I literally have to stop and rest my feet every five minutes during my class?

Yeah, I'd skip the ebay skates... odds are good their "D" width is probably more like a medium/average anyways.

Hmm how about your old Riedells? You were able to test in them, right? Might be uncomfortable, but maybe they would be less painful than your Classiques?

I considered that, but our skating director recommended against it, just because they're a medium width. I don't know if she realizes they've been punched, though. I might try them on anyway, just to see how they compare to the Classiques now. The blades are pretty bad, though. I noticed a huge difference in my skating once I switched to the Classiques, with their better blades. I can do a one-footed snowplow, which I couldn't on the Riedells, and just my gliding in general is better. They would need to be punched again, if I did switch to them, because the punch-out shrank. Hmm. Maybe I can take them to a practice session and just try them and see how they compare to the Classiques. It's worth a try, anyway.

Update

I'm in California, so I went and got fitted for my custom Harlicks today. They're ordered, and paid for, and everything, so hopefully in a few weeks I'll have wonderful new skates that fit like they were made for me.

At first, the fitter suggested that I get SP Teri customs instead of Harlick, just because of the shape of my feet and the fact that SP Teris are a little rounder at the toe. But then he decided it would be okay if we requested the X-Line boot instead of the regular boot.

I forget the name of the blades (Aspire, maybe?) but they're a step up from the Mirages. He recommended them because they're slightly more curved, so the toe picks will be higher up, so I won't have as much trouble with them scraping.

I paid extra for expedited production, so I should get them in 4-6 weeks instead of 8-10 weeks. That will be nice. I'm still really nervous, though. I've never paid this much money for anything for myself, ever. If they don't fit, I'm going to go insane.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on April 22, 2012, 12:02:27 AMI've never paid this much money for anything for myself, ever. If they don't fit, I'm going to go insane.

If it helps to reassure you, my husband's new custom Harlicks seem to fit just fine now that he's broken them in. The break-in period was quite painful (although his boots are a lot stiffer than yours are going to be), but has been worthwhile. I should add that he did follow Harlick's instructions for breaking them in to the letter, so they obviously know what they're talking about in that regard. The instructions were in a pamphlet he received with the skates, and are also on their website.

Ooh I know the feeling. I've been feeling the same thing about my skates, but your skates are waaay more expensive than mine. But if you love skating and you are willing to go through with it, your custom boots will definitely be worth it. :)

If you don't mind, where did you get fitted, by the way?

I went to USASkates in Anaheim. They're right across from the Mighty Ducks skating rink. According to their site, they're the only figure skating store in southern California. There were several other Harlick dealers listed for the area, but they had names like "Hockey Pro" or whatever, so I'm guessing they weren't specialized in figure skating. This place definitely knows figure skating. They had a special seat that's really high up, so the fitter can sit on his stool and reach your feet easily, without having to crouch on the floor.

As far as breaking them in, I've never had pain with breaking-in skates beyond maybe two or three hours of skating. Typically, it was my ankle bone rubbing against the side of the skate, but it stopped after a few hours of skating. Other than that, none of my skates had a painful break-in. But, obviously, none of them really fit me, either, so there's no telling how that will affect it. I wish I could get them heat-molded, but it would be a five-hour drive to get that done, and I don't even know if they can be heat-molded.

I'm a little concerned about getting the blades mounted. The shop in CA will do a temporary mounting, but they said for the permanent mounting, it'll need a layer of silicone put between the sole and the blade, to waterproof it. Since there is no shop in my area that can do that, I have to find out if the rink manager who does sharpenings and punchings can do it, or if I'll have to drive several hours to the nearest place that does that sort of thing. It's possible the pro-shop in Little Rock, Arkansas will be able to do the mounting; if so, it's only a 2 hour drive, instead of 5 hours.

They are custom skates, so it is very unlikely that you would need heat molding.  These are built to fit your feet, after all.  In terms of breaking them in: please follow the guidelines that Harlick gives you. They are very specific in terms of how to do it, and it does work.  The other thing to remember is that when you lace them, you do need to pull the laces tight around your foot. The way they cut the boot, it "wraps" around your foot, and, by pulling the laces in tight, you pull the boot into proper alignment.

Are you getting Harlick to waterproof them? if so, then, you wouldn't need the silicone layer. Frankly, my DD's skates are simply sno-sealed, she's often careless about drying her boots, and we've never had an issue with her skates; her "backup" pair (used for coaching and pleasure skating) is now 4-1/2 years old, heavily used, and there is no water damage at all.  All she has to remember is to take them out of the bag and put them, without soakers, in a safe place between wearings.  Since she's been using a Transpack bag for her backup skates, it's even less of an issue ... the side mounted mesh skate holders are fantastic, as they don't trap the skates in a humid environment.

The guy at the shop said that they prefer to waterproof the skates themselves, rather than to have Harlick do it. I'm not sure why. I wasn't entirely thrilled, since they charge for it and Harlick doesn't. But whatever. I was so overwhelmed with the whole process, I wasn't able to argue the point.

Once the skates arrive, he'll waterproof them, but he said I would still need to add silicone to the blade, to keep moisture from going through the screws and making them rot out.

I'll definitely follow the instructions for breaking the boots in. I want to do everything right with these skates, so they'll last as long as possible, so I've been researching how to care for them and everything. Hopefully I can get four to five years out of them, instead of just one or two. I can't afford new custom skates every year or two.

QuoteThey are custom skates, so it is very unlikely that you would need heat molding. 

I have custom Harlicks.  We heat molded them and they still had to be punched out in a few areas.  All 4 of my ankle bones needed punching out as well as one spot on the ball of the foot.  (On a side note, my stock Riedells did not need any adjustments after the heat molding, so go figure...)
You can probably do the heat molding yourself at home.  Check with Harlick, though- to make sure the warranty will not be voided if you do.
Some manufacturers actually have instructions how to do this at home.

Yeah, I am a little worried about my ankle bones. In my first two pairs of skates, they rubbed against the sides of the boots. With the Classiques, they had this memory foam padding through the ankles, and my ankle bones made a permanent indentation in the foam. I expected it would fill back out in-between skating sessions, but it didn't. So I don't know what kind of padding the Harlicks will have, whether I'll need the ankle bone area punched out or not. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

QuoteYeah, I am a little worried about my ankle bones. In my first two pairs of skates, they rubbed against the sides of the boots. With the Classiques, they had this memory foam padding through the ankles, and my ankle bones made a permanent indentation in the foam. I expected it would fill back out in-between skating sessions, but it didn't. So I don't know what kind of padding the Harlicks will have, whether I'll need the ankle bone area punched out or not. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

When Harlick gets your order, I would call them and let them know that you live very far away from a skate shop with a punching machine. Ask them for a suggestion- maybe they can prepunch the ankle?  Mine were incredibly tight- I could not even lace them up at home without pain, let alone   skate in them. The punching is done in the leather- sort of a little outpocket.  Eventually your ankle bones make a permanent  indentation in the inside foam as well.   

I'm sure too if the skates are going to Anaheim and not her directly, they can punch the ankle.

The trouble with pre-punching is, they wouldn't know exactly where my ankle bones are, so they might punch the wrong place. But it's okay, there is a guy at our rink who does private stretching and punching and sharpening. I was kept out of the loop as to who he was for a long time, but my instructor finally told me when we were considering punching the arches of my Classiques flat. If I need the ankles punched, I'm sure he can do it. Hopefully they'll be okay though.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on April 22, 2012, 05:25:16 PM
Yeah, I am a little worried about my ankle bones. In my first two pairs of skates, they rubbed against the sides of the boots. With the Classiques, they had this memory foam padding through the ankles, and my ankle bones made a permanent indentation in the foam. I expected it would fill back out in-between skating sessions, but it didn't. So I don't know what kind of padding the Harlicks will have, whether I'll need the ankle bone area punched out or not. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

My kid has exceptionally narrow heels and very bony ankles with protusions. We got the deluxe padding/heel hugger padding on their recommendation.  No need to punch anything out; the foam just fit perfectly around the ankle area. Given how thick the padding is, I don't know how you'd punch out the ankle area - ?????  ??? ???

Oh, okay. I did order the heel hugger/deluxe padding, so hopefully that will work great with my ankle bones. There's so many variables and possibilities, it really feels like this whole thing is just a gamble. All I can do is wait and see and hope like crazy they'll fit.

Do you have your skates yet?

Congrats on your new boots!

There is a huge advantage to having mods (like punching, heat molding) be done by the shop you buy from. It's a really big deal.

Otherwise, it will likely be impossible to return the skates if something is wrong, and you can't make them fit, or something was made wrong - fairly frequent problems with even high end custom skates. Plus, they may do it for free, and there is fair amount of skill involved in doing it right. Once in a while customs fit well without mods, but I think that's less than 50% of the time.

Given all the problems that can and do occur (look at all the posts in this forum relating to poorly fitting boots, including customs!), it's worth the extra drive. Make sure the best person there (usually the skate shop manager) does the work. Get an appointment.

Look up your skates on the Harlick web site to find out if they are nominally heat mold-able. All leather boots are to an extent - maybe to 160 - 180 degrees F, but some are more so than others. The pro shop will know, though if Harlick doesn't say, they probably won't do it.

No, I haven't got the new skates yet. I paid for expedited production, so they should be ready any day now. The guy who fitted me said he would call when they arrived at his shop, and then he'd mount the blades (temporarily), make sure everything looked good, and ship them to me.

I can't find anything on Harlick's site about whether the skates are heat-moldable or not. Unfortunately, the pro-shop where I got fitted is in California and I live in Tennessee, so there won't be much chance of going back there for heat-molding, punching, or adjustments. There is a local guy (the rink's manager, I believe) who does private work, such as punching and sharpening, and he's the one who'll do the permanent blade mounting for me. If I need anything done, I'll have to use him, or else drive three to five hours to a pro-shop.

I don't think they can be. Asking Harlick would be your best bet. I know that I have never tried to heat mold mine and I haven't heard of anyone else doing it, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done.

If the local guys don't do a good job, try contacting Harlick to see what they can do, when and where.

http://www.harlick.com/order/faq.php#break says how to break in your boots.

http://www.harlick.com/boots/lightweight.php says all Harlick boots are heat moldable.

Harlick might also tell you a shop fairly near you that they trust to work on your boots.

My Harlicks are lightweight design (they are microfiber, not leather) and they were heat molded.   In my case, I still needed a few punch outs, even after heat molding. 

I know all the pro-shops around us. Basically, there are shops in Little Rock, Arkansas; Nashville, Tennessee; and St. Louis, Missouri--three hours, three hours, and five hours away, respectively. The closest preferred Harlick dealer is in Atlanta, Georgia, a seven-hour drive, and it's nothing but a woman who takes measurements out of her living room. So I don't know where Harlick would send us, if we asked for a referral.

If I have trouble breaking in the boots, I'll see if I can travel to Nashville to get them heat-molded. Not sure if they do that there, though. Might have to travel five hours to St. Louis.

I'm about due for things to go my way, especially where skates are concerned, so hopefully all my worries will be for naught and the skates will fit perfectly, with no need for punching, or heat-molding, or any other adjustments.

Apparently, my feet aren't quite as wide as Jackson led me to believe. They are extra-wide, yes. But not EEEEE wide. The guy at the pro-shop in California said that my feet are actually pretty thick, from top to bottom. So when you measure around the ball, you get a number that appears to be a very wide measurement, but a lot of that is from the thickness of my foot, not the width. He asked whether I had trouble with the tongue of the skate rubbing against the top of my foot, but that's one problem I haven't had. I guess I've been fortunate enough to have skates that are tall enough inside to accommodate my thick feet, even if they aren't wide enough.

Yes, they are heat moldable. However, I would suggest that you defer doing this until necessary, as, with custom boots, you should find them to be a neat fit.  Be sure to follow the specific and very directive instructions for breaking them in; they work.  Also, the boots are cut on what my mother would have called "the bias" thus, when,you are lacing them, you need to pull them in very snugly around your foot. My kid describes it as feeling as if the boot is "wrapping" around the foot as the laces are pulled into place; they lift and form around your foot and pull up from the toe.  When they were first put on, there was a certain sense of disappointment in the fit until the fitter pointed out that the laces weren't pulled in tightly; once they were, the "wrap" effect came into play and the fit was perfect - in fact, better than the other customs that we were used to.

So, it's been almost 9 weeks since I ordered my skates and my receipt promised 5-6 weeks with expedited production. I called USASkates twice last week and each time was told someone would call me back. Well, the manager finally called me back yesterday and informed me that my skates are due in today. They'll inspect them, mount the blades, and then ship them off to me ASAP. I should get them early next week, if all goes well.

He even offered to inscribe my name on the soles for free. I wasn't going to do it, because I'm not big on monograms or labels, but then I decided, what the heck, and agreed to it. Honestly, I still don't know why I said yes, but I figure, if I don't like it, no one will ever see it. Not unless I fall spectacularly on the ice and they have to carry me off, in which case I'll have more on my mind then whether anyone will notice that my name is written on the bottoms of my skates.  :P

Quick question. Not sure if I mentioned this before or not, but I got the custom gray Superfeet insoles, the ones that are vacuum-molded to your feet for a perfect fit, in lieu of Harlick's orthopedic inserts. The skate fitter said they would compensate for my flat feet and pronation. The thing is, he didn't mention how I'm supposed to wear them. Am I supposed to remove the Harlick insoles and replace them with the Superfeet insoles? Or do they fit on top of the regular insoles? Or under them? These aren't the regular yellow Superfeet skating insoles, but the custom gray insoles. I checked the Superfeet website and it says that regular Superfeet are meant to replace your insoles entirely, while the Easy-Fit ones go over your insoles. It didn't say anything about the custom insoles, though. Any idea?

They replace your stock insoles :)

He does a nice job with the name.  You'll be happy.  :D

Quote from: sarahspins on June 22, 2012, 12:28:18 PM
They replace your stock insoles :)

Okay, thanks.

Quote from: hopskipjump on June 22, 2012, 12:45:37 PM
He does a nice job with the name.  You'll be happy.  :D

He did double-check the spelling, which reassured me. Most people spell my name wrong, and how awful would it be to have a pair of custom skates inscribed with the wrong name! In any case, I'm sure I'll love them.

I was wondering about your skates the other day:-)  It is great you will be getting them soon!  Let us know how things are going!  In the beginning they may feel awkward and stiff, but hang in there, a couple of weeks makes a HUGE difference!

I can deal with discomfort if I know it's temporary. I ordered the lightest, least-stiff boots, so hopefully they'll break in fast. I do kind of wish I'd gotten flex-notches, as I'd planned, but the guy at the skate shop recommended skipping them. He said they would make the boots break down faster, creating a crease at the ankle, and they wouldn't provide enough of a benefit to make them worthwhile. I was so overwhelmed with everything that I didn't push the issue, but now I'm thinking I should have asked more questions. Oh, well. There's always my next pair of skates, once these wear out. (Trying not to freak out at the idea of needing a new pair of $1,000 skates a year or two from now. . . .)

I'm also thinking I'll get either the Ice Halo or the Ribcap this week. I don't have great balance or strength and the idea of falling and hitting my head is causing me a lot of anxiety. Even if the protection it offers is minimal, at least it would give me greater confidence. I just wish I could try them both out before spending the money. I'd hate to buy one, only to find out that it's too hot and I overheat while wearing it, or that it obscures my hearing. (Covering my ears makes my hearing problems ten times worse. I dislike wearing my winter headband because it muffles my hearing, making me feel like I'm handicapped while skating. I can't hear the approach of other skaters, or my coach's instructions, so it really makes me uncomfortable.)

I strongly advise adhering strictly to Harlick's instructions for breaking in the boots, even if this makes things a bit difficult in the first few weeks. It certainly worked for my husband breaking in his boots, and he's now happy with them (still working through some issues with his blades, but boots are fine).

I wouldn't worry too much about when the boots will break down. If you're only skating at a low level, and not that many hours a week, then it may take way longer than two years for them to break down. I've had my current boots since 2007 (although there was about 18 months when I didn't skate in the middle of that) and mine are nowhere near needing replacing. The length of time it takes for boots to break down (or otherwise need replacing) is different for everyone.

Quote from: Bunny Hop on June 23, 2012, 04:55:54 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about when the boots will break down. If you're only skating at a low level, and not that many hours a week, then it may take way longer than two years for them to break down. I've had my current boots since 2007 (although there was about 18 months when I didn't skate in the middle of that) and mine are nowhere near needing replacing. The length of time it takes for boots to break down (or otherwise need replacing) is different for everyone.

Well, that's good to know. I'd hate for this to be an annual expense! Although, as I progress, I may end up needing boots with more ankle support. We went with the lowest version, since I'm not doing any jumps. Hopefully it will be enough for the next few years. I don't expect to progress rapidly, as I prefer to take my time mastering the elements before moving on to the harder stuff. And I plan to go into ice dance, rather than freestyle, so that may make a difference, as well.

I was reading this and wanted to offer my personal opinion regarding the silicone layer:

Often in my own experience, a waterproofed sole is all that is needed for a blade to be securely mounted.  I also see in women's boots where the sole is varnished several times in order to create a thick layer of protection from water damage.

I've personally had USA Skates mount one of my blades with silicone, and what I discovered was the silicone eventually oozes from the sides of the mounting plate, and subsequently, the blade becomes loose.  The one occasion where I had to have my blades remounted, the silicone was rotting, so once we removed, re-waterproofed my soles, and remounted, I was good to go.

In my last two skate purchases, I have had the blade mounted directly to the sole without anything other than making sure it was waterproofed.  I have not had any issues with the mounting. 

With that said, I'm sure if you aren't doing overly advanced moves on the ice, blades with silicone should hold up well.  Again, I just think once the silicone rots away, you're left with loose screws in the mounting as that thin layer between mounting plate and sole is gone.  However, I think if you're not doing jumps over an axel, especially toe jumps (doubles) that put a lot of force on the blades, you should be okay.

The manager at USASkates was quite firm about the fact that I need to add that layer of silicone under the blade. He said without it, the screws would quickly rot out. I haven't a clue whether that's true or not, but he was very insistent. Perhaps they get a lot of customers in with rotted soles and they believe that's the cause.  ???

I'm not doing any jumps, nor do I plan to. My coach once encouraged me to try a bunny hop, just standing in place, and I lost my balance and nearly fell. I saved myself only because I was right beside the railing. I can't imagine trying anything that is more complex! With my lack of balance, it's better if my feet stay firmly on the ice. I'm not real comfortable with one-foot maneuvers, but I'm working on them anyway, since it's a requirement for advancing onward. I would like to try various spins, but as far as jumps go, if I ever try them, it will be a long time from now. I don't think it'll be an issue as far as my blades go.  :)

It's Tuesday and there's no sign of my skates yet. I really hope they don't try to deliver them tomorrow, because I'll be out of town. I'd hate for my expensive skates to be sitting on the porch all day, where anyone could nab them, and where the excessive heat might warp the leather!

Okay, it's been thirteen days. WHERE ARE MY SKATES?!?!?

Sorry, I'm just getting extremely frustrated. They promised to ship them immediately and that was two weeks ago.

Have you tried contacting Harlick directly?  Since these skates were customs they should be able to help if you call them and ask...

According to the skate shop, Harlick shipped them more than two weeks ago. They were supposed to have arrived at the shop two Fridays ago. The ball is in their court. All they had to do was mount the blades and inscribe my name on the soles, then ship them off to me. Is that something that usually takes two weeks to do? They implied that the skates would be shipped ASAP, so I was expecting them last week.

I would ask the shop for a tracking number, just in case.  My guess is they haven't shipped in the first place, but in case they have, you'll want that number in order to track them down.

I would call Harlick and ask them, to make sure they shipped in the first place.  Then definitely, get the tracking number, as it is taking an unusually long time. 
My guess, someone misinformed you regarding the true shipping date.

I'd definitely get them on the phone and try to get some answers... it doesn't take this long.  Unless they are using an unusual waterproofing method (like multiple layers of lacquer) it shouldn't take more than a day in the shop to get the boots waterproofed and blades mounted.

My last pair of skates have a story behind them. I went to my rink's pro shop, and they were there, used, but brand new looking (not even sharpened beyond the bad factory sharpen.) The lady was like "Yeah, these boots have been here a while." I was actually looking to get Riedell, I think 133s? But, the lady at the shop showed me the lower end Riedells, I think up to 115, and they just didn't feel right. So she showed me the pair of "used" Jacksons, and I was sold. Only $60, too, for a boot MUCH stiffer than the boots she was showing me. So I said I wanted to reserve them, and she said she couldn't reserve them, but she'd take down my number, but she also said not to worry, as they'd been there a long time. Anyway, I got them, and I skated in them, I pretty much destroyed them after a year of skating, but that's not the fun part of this story.

The fun part is, there was a guy at my rink, older guy, who was similar to me, as in he came in with the attitude of "Oh yeah I could do that" with skating. He got lessons and stuff, but people thought he was pushing things way too hard and way too fast, especially for his age (I think he was in his 60s.) But yeah, I got compared to him a lot, he was a bit infamous among the older folks I usually talk to at the rink. Anyway, that guy tore his rotator cuff off the bone of his shoulder from a fall while skating, and lost feeling in a few of his fingers, and then stopped skating after that. Anyway, I found out, my boots...were his. He only wore them like twice before his accident, and preferred wearing the rentals (didn't listen to people's advice about breaking in boots) and after his fall, I guess he put them on consignment, and yeah. So I got a "cursed" pair of boots. Yay.

Supra, I'm glad you found a pair of skates that work for you! I wouldn't call them "cursed" though. It's not their fault their previous owner pushed himself too hard, had an accident, and got injured. Now, if they'd been owned by someone else who got injured and had to quit skating before that, then I'd start eying the skates with suspicion. . . .  ;)

Update:
I am officially fed up with USASkates. The guy is nice and friendly on the phone, but something hinky's going on. It's been four weeks since he supposedly received my skates. Two weeks ago, he promised to ship them and email me the tracking number. He never did. I called yesterday and talked to the guy who's in charge of my skates. Point blank, I asked for the tracking number. He said the person who had it wasn't there and he'd have to email it to me. But this was his sale, why would he not have the tracking number? Shouldn't it be in my file? He offered no apologies, no explanations. I probably should have asked a few pointed questions, but he always sounds like he's rushed and in a hurry to get off the phone, and I have a phobia about talking to people on the phone, which makes it very difficult for me to be direct and say what needs to be said. (I'm doing exceptionally well just to call and ask for status updates, believe me.)

At any rate, I'm at my wit's end. I know a couple of you suggested calling Harlick to verify that the skates were shipped to the skate shop, but my phobia is especially difficult when I don't know who I'm calling. Perhaps I can bribe my husband into calling for me this evening.

I really don't understand what's going on. Why would they keep promising to ship the skates, and then not do it? They're already paid for. What could they hope to gain by delaying for so long? It makes no sense to me. Am I being ripped off?

Quote from: Orianna2000 on July 18, 2012, 02:36:20 PMAt any rate, I'm at my wit's end. I know a couple of you suggested calling Harlick to verify that the skates were shipped to the skate shop, but my phobia is especially difficult when I don't know who I'm calling. Perhaps I can bribe my husband into calling for me this evening.

Trust me I totally understand - I have a thing against calling people I don't know too and I rely on my husband a lot to do those things for me, ESPECIALLY when it involves any kind of customer service issue (he's much more level headed than I am in dealing with them than I am).  Email is always an option too (I mean you can email Harlick - explain the situation and see if they are willing to do anything to help you out in any way - they can also confirm whether or not USA Skates ever put in your order, and if they did, when that was) :)

QuoteI really don't understand what's going on. Why would they keep promising to ship the skates, and then not do it? They're already paid for. What could they hope to gain by delaying for so long? It makes no sense to me. Am I being ripped off?

It wouldn't sit well with me either... as I see it, there are a number of things you can do to expedite a resolution.. First, file a complaint with the BBB - you can do this completely online (http://www.la.bbb.org/business-reviews/Skate-Equipment-and-Supplies-Retail/USA-Skates-in-Anaheim-CA-100109360) (and unfortunately it looks as if you're not the only one to have experienced this from them).  Second, if they have any online presence (Twitter, Facebook, etc) you can start publicly asking for an explanation of what exactly is going on and why you've been told things have been done (or would be done) that clearly weren't done, and why has there been so much of a delay on your "expedited" order.

Third, how did you pay?  If it was by credit card or even by debit card you may have some recourse at this point, but it depends on how long ago that "sale" actually was you may be beyond the time allowed to dispute the charge... a lot of banks only allow 60 days past the statement date and unfortunately since you are nearly 3 months past the sale now it may be too late (some companies like Discover are sometimes a little more leniant with that though).  Even if you are past the date your bank says you should still contact them to see what they can do for you.  Since this is an issue of non-delivery and not just an unauthorized charge they may still be able to do something.  How this normally works with custom skates is that a deposit (usually $150-200 or in some cases a percentage of the boot cost) is paid upon ordering, and the balance is due when the boots are finished - I'm going to go out on a limb and presume that this is NOT how USA Skates handled it? 

There are so many things with this transaction that would have my blood boiling.. you paid for expedited service and you are now a full 3 months past when you ordered your skates, and still have nothing.  That's completely unacceptable IMO..  The rest of it, even if it was a standard order, at this point it has taken unreasonably long.  I ordered a modified pair of Jacksons back in May and I had them in my hands a scant 15 days from when I ordered them.. so clearly not ALL companies operate at a snail's pace (and to Jackson's credit, I was told it would take up to 6 weeks to have those boots made, so I was shocked that they were ready and shipped to me so fast).  My custom colored Paramounts have taken longer than that and still haven't shipped (Paramount is behind in production - and it's no biggie to me at this point, I just find it ironic that the blades are taking longer than my boots did - I ordered the blades through Kinzie's Closet who has been excellent in updating me on them).

I would ultimately give USA SKates an ultimatim - that they need to provide you with tracking information that shows the boots were shipped (and in the custody of a shipping carrier) prior to today, or they need to refund you in full so that you can move on and order a replacement pair through someone else (which technically should be easier assuming that your boots were actually ordered and built - Harlick would have your information on file now so another fitting isn't necessary).

I'm so sorry that you've had to go through all this though.. for most people the hard part about getting new skates is just coming up with the money for them (well, for me anyways!), not waiting months and months and getting empty promises along the way.

You're right--I paid in full, up front, via credit card. There were a few things that rang alarm bells at the time, but I was so overwhelmed by the fitting process that I wasn't able to think clearly enough to protest or ask questions. I didn't like how they dismissed the FREE waterproofing that Harlick offers and said they'd do it themselves--for a $65 fee. (Incidentally, doing this changes the color of the soles from dark, which I wanted, to light, which I didn't want.) They also charged me $25 shipping, when (if I recall correctly) Harlick charges nothing. I was also surprised that they charged in full, since Harlick only requires a percentage up front. But as I said, I was dazed and overwhelmed, so I just pulled out the Visa card and didn't utter a squeak of protest.

After flying all the way to California just to have these stupid skates fitted, I don't see how I could get another pair made. There's no one within a day's drive of here that's capable of doing the fitting. If Harlick has my measurements and tracings on file and could just reuse them, that would be okay, but if they require fresh tracings, I'm up a creek.

As far as the BBB, if I don't get my skates, I'll definitely file a complaint. But I don't want to file anything so long as they still have my skates held hostage. I need those skates! If I tick them off, they'll never send them.

I did just shoot a pleading polite email to Harlick, so perhaps we'll get some answers.

You should call your credit card company to at least alert them to the situation, to find out if they can help you if you choose to issue a charge back.

I'm surprised - USASkates is a reputable company.  This is inexcusable.

When we ordered from Harlick, from our dealer, we paid a percentage.  The skates were delivered on time (slightly faster than expected). There were no problems. Our dealer indicates that this is the norm in their dealing with Harlick.

I would contact Harlick directly.  IF they are being poorly represented by a dealer, then, they will like to know. Also, as you didn't get the expedited service promised, I would think that, absolutely, at a minimum, you should get that amount refunded.

I am sorry you have had to deal with this!

I know harlick was running way behind in production. I ordered my boots with normal shipping in February- stock boot with a stock size that they didn't have already in stock - and I didn't get them until May. I kept on my dealer who, although not the best with follow up, was able to get me information.

I asked my questions of Harlick, and the lady who wrote back said nothing, except to ask which guy had fitted me at USASkates. I told her (Randall) and haven't heard anything back. I hope she's not planning to contact them and tell them I complained. I'm not trying to go behind anyone's back and get them in trouble! I just want answers, that's all.

I had hoped that I would get my expedited fee back, at the very least, but when I tried to broach that subject with USASkates, the guy was quick to say that, despite what my receipt says, it's not a set time limit, but rather a promise of "half the normal production time." So if normal production right now is way behind, taking upwards of 16 weeks, then my waiting 8 weeks for my skates is only fair. I would agree with that, except that my receipt promised 5-6 weeks. It might not be a contract, but it is in writing, so. . . . I dunno. But it's completely unfair that I've had to wait an additional MONTH beyond when the skates were supposedly ready, just for them to mount the blades and ship them. That's hardly reasonable!

My husband seems to think we can reverse the credit card's charges, should it come to that. I hope it doesn't, because I really need these skates. After all I went though to get them, I don't want to start back at square one.  :(

Quote from: Orianna2000 on July 18, 2012, 10:23:01 PM
I asked my questions of Harlick, and the lady who wrote back said nothing, except to ask which guy had fitted me at USASkates. I told her (Randall) and haven't heard anything back. I hope she's not planning to contact them and tell them I complained. I'm not trying to go behind anyone's back and get them in trouble! I just want answers, that's all.

Harlick is a professional company, and I don't think that there can or would be repercussions to you as the customer - all you want is more information than you've been able to get through USA Skates, and it seems reasonable to go a level above them.  If I was having a problem with an order through a third party, I wouldn't hesitate to contact the company (in some capacity - I'm a big fan of email) myself.

QuoteMy husband seems to think we can reverse the credit card's charges, should it come to that. I hope it doesn't, because I really need these skates. After all I went though to get them, I don't want to start back at square one.  :(

I know you don't want that, but on one hand, it might be better/easier to work with another company at this point. 

I'm not personally all that convinced that USA Skates even has your boots.  If they don't, and they were actually ordered and are in the process of being made, I'd talk to Harlick and ask if they can ship them directly to you (you may even be able to have them mount blades for you) - in which case you'd be out the blades and waterproofing fees and any other extras paid for when you ordered the boots, but USA Skates would hopefully be willing to refund you for any services they didn't actually provide, simply because that's what any reasonable company would do.  That's likely the "best case" resolution at this point.

How frustrating!  I would just find out from Harlick first whether the boots were shipped  (and when).  Then you can be armed with definitive data when you call USA skates.  As much as I would like to reverse the charges on the card, I would like to have my new boots more!
I so hope you get this mess resolved quickly!

Quote from: Kim to the Max on July 18, 2012, 09:45:01 PM
I am sorry you have had to deal with this!

I know harlick was running way behind in production. I ordered my boots with normal shipping in February- stock boot with a stock size that they didn't have already in stock - and I didn't get them until May. I kept on my dealer who, although not the best with follow up, was able to get me information.

We ordered custom in mid-January. Our dealer was advised by Harlick that, due to capacity, the skates would actually be done EARLIER than the normal turnaround period with no fee; and they were.  It was a bit after that that I noted (I think it was March 1st?) that they were posting a new longer turnaround time.  We had 2 queries on the boots, including one where we asked to confirm delivery date: the dealer called Harlick direct, and had the answer immediately.

I've no advice in addition to what others have said, but husband's custom Harlicks were completed and shipped slightly ahead of when they were promised (we ordered direct from Harlick). As someone else said, it doesn't sound like the dealer has actually received the boots - I would go further and wonder if they actually placed the order with Harlick in the first place (probably as an oversight and not through any sort of deception) and are now trying to cover their tracks.

I hate this sort of situation - if a supplier (of anything) doesn't have some piece of information, or has made an error, they should just say that, and not tell you something that clearly isn't true. Most people are willing to accept that mistakes sometimes happen (however frustrating) or that there is no information available, but they still need to be kept informed.

And Harlick will definitely want to know if their good name is being damaged by association due to poor service by a dealer - I wouldn't worry about that part of it.

Oh, and I have telephone-a-phobia as well!

Since you ordered through a dealer, Harlick has to contact them to see when they ordered and what the number was.  It's possible that the order was misplaced.  Give them a day or two to sort out what happened.

Buying skates is unlike any other footware purchase, I agree it is definitely an adventure!! I purchased my skates years ago, I wear a shoe size 8 and 1/2 but when I tried on an 8 and 1/2 in skates I quickly realized the sizing structure is completely different from regular shoes.  So, this is the strategy I followed and it helped:  I sat down with about 20 pairs of different sized skates and just start trying them on and walking around in them, I was there for a good hour or two - when my foot went in the right one, I knew it - it was just a perfect fit. I ended up wearing a size 6 ice skate for a shoe size of 8 and 1/2 - insane!  Then the panic set in after the purchase.  "Wait! Now they feel too tight!! No, wait! Today they are too big!"  I stopped this panic by not skating in the skates initially, I put blade guards on and I just wore the new skates around the house for 2 weeks.  By the time I hit the ice I was completely comfortable in the skates.  By the time I need new skates, I really hope this same strategy works but my guess is each fitting is going to be completely different, I guess this is part of the exciting adventure of figure skating :)  I wonder when they will be able to just scan our foot and make a perfect fit boot from the scan - someone start working on that for us please.

I second the request for a foot scanner that can produce perfectly fitted boots on request! That's exactly what I need.

The lady from Harlick says she'll do what she can to make this right. You're probably right that she needs to contact USASkates and find out what's going on. She sounded very empathetic, although she doesn't know the half of the story. I didn't want to bog her down with the whole gory tale of my "skate-buying adventures". . . .

If they don't actually have my skates, then they've outright lied to me on several occasions. They said they had them and were in the midst of waterproofing them, etc. If they had told me, "Sorry, we didn't get your order placed, it's going to be another six weeks," I would have been angry and disappointed, yes. But lying to cover their tracks? That infuriates me even more. I hope that's not what's happened, but I can't imagine they are simply incompetent to the point where they can't manage to do in four weeks what ought to have taken, at most, a single weekend.

Another reason I'm angry is because, since I will most likely have to sign for these skates when they arrive, I've been deliberately staying home, in case UPS came to deliver them. For FOUR WEEKS I've stayed home as often as possible, because they promised they'd be shipped ASAP and I didn't want to miss the delivery. I took them at their word, and that's inconvenienced me greatly. It's also inconvenienced my coach, because she's been holding my lesson slot for me, with the expectation that I would be resuming my lessons as soon as my skates arrived. If we'd known it would be another month (or longer) she could have accepted other students during that slot. So she's out that income, as well.  >:(

Three cheers for the lady at Harlick!

I just received an email from UPS saying my skates are en route and will be delivered tomorrow! I don't know what the Harlick representative did, but it sure got results. According to the tracking information, the skates were shipped about 10 minutes after I emailed Harlick with my complaint.

For future reference, you do not have to be home when UPS arrives.

If you aren't home when UPS arrives, they will do one of two things: (a) leave the package on your doorstep. If you live in a really bad neighborhood, where someone may steal the package, and this is a bad thing. (b) if you had the shipper mark the package with "hold for signature", they leave you a note saying you weren't there when they tried to deliver. You can then call and schedule a delivery date with the local UPS depot.

There may also be a way (I haven't figured one out) to get UPS to only deliver a note, that lets you pick the package up from the local UPS depot.

Quote from: Query on July 19, 2012, 07:21:16 PM
For future reference, you do not have to be home when UPS arrives.

If you aren't home when UPS arrives, they will do one of two things: (a) leave the package on your doorstep. If you live in a really bad neighborhood, where someone may steal the package, and this is a bad thing. (b) if you had the shipper mark the package with "hold for signature", they leave you a note saying you weren't there when they tried to deliver. You can then call and schedule a delivery date with the local UPS depot.

There may also be a way (I haven't figured one out) to get UPS to only deliver a note, that lets you pick the package up from the local UPS depot.

Several years ago, when we lived in an apartment, they would come and stick a note on our door saying they tried to deliver and we weren't home. We never had to call to schedule the delivery. They either tried again the next day, or we went and picked it up. The problem was, we were ALWAYS home! They never even tried knocking. Many times, I would hear the thump as they slapped the sticker on the door, but I never once heard them knock or ring the doorbell. We finally called UPS and complained about this, because it was really unfair. Apparently, they were just in a rush and assumed no one would be home, so they didn't waste time knocking. Ever.

I would assume, since the skates are worth more than $1,000, that they would require a signature and wouldn't just leave them on the doorstep. One would hope, anyway! In any case, I will be home tomorrow for sure. Not going to risk missing this delivery!  ;D

Quote from: Orianna2000 on July 19, 2012, 07:10:29 PM
Three cheers for the lady at Harlick!

I just received an email from UPS saying my skates are en route and will be delivered tomorrow! I don't know what the Harlick representative did, but it sure got results. According to the tracking information, the skates were shipped about 10 minutes after I emailed Harlick with my complaint.

are they shipped from USA Skates or Harlick? That would be interesting to determine :)

Quote from: Sk8tmum on July 19, 2012, 09:05:15 PM
are they shipped from USA Skates or Harlick? That would be interesting to determine :)

Yeah... Which city/state did it originate from on the tracking page?

They've shipped from Anaheim, which is where USASkates is. I would have been upset otherwise, because USASkates was responsible for mounting the blades and they're also sending the custom insoles they fitted me for. If Harlick sent the skates directly, it would have just been the skates, without blades, without waterproofing, and without my Superfeet insoles. Since I paid for all that, I want to make sure I get it.

Here's a question: How can you tell if they've been properly waterproofed? I'd like to verify that they did, indeed, waterproof the skates as promised.

They will be very glossy and varnished.

Just the soles? Or the entire boot?

Just the soles

Quote from: Orianna2000 on July 19, 2012, 07:39:56 PMI would assume, since the skates are worth more than $1,000, that they would require a signature and wouldn't just leave them on the doorstep.

Not always... every time I get my $6000 insulin pump replaced under warranty they just leave the new one at my door (though I do live in the middle of nowhere so I'm not worried it would disappear from my porch - and I could request that a signature be required if I wanted it).

What strikes me as even more odd is that the old one goes back to the company by regular USPS mail (they send a pre-paid label).. and it's not even insured as far as I can tell.

Well, the good news (other than that you'll finally get your skates!) is that next time you need new boots, you can go direct to Harlick and cut out the middle man, because Harlick will have a record of your measurements.

Re: waterproofing :. Unless you asked for varnish, the soles won't be shiny.  They will have a slightly waxy feel when you slide your finger along the leather, and there will be the same sort of patina you see on furniture that has been beeswaxed. 

Re: reordering.  You should get remeasured every time. Feet change and stance can too.

Enjoy the skates.  Be sure to follow Harlicks recommendations for breaking in: they are very detailed and very effective and if you do have a problem it's far more effective to complain if you've followed their specific directions!

I've saved a copy of Harlick's break-in instructions, though it seems pretty straightforward: Leave the top two hooks undone while you skate for the first 4-6 hours. Then, leave just the top hook undone for the next 4-6 hours. No jumps, spins, or moves that require deep knee-bend during this time. That's it.

It will take awhile for me to break these boots in, since I usually only get to skate one hour (freestyle) a week (and half of that is my lesson). I'm hoping we can find a deserted public session in the evening during the week, so I can get more practice time in. It's hard when they're constantly changing the schedule around, but my husband and I have agreed that I'll make better progress if I can skate twice a week instead of just once, so we're going to try to make that happen.

Questions:

* Is it acceptable to use hair bands on the top hooks during the break-in period? Or would that defeat the purpose? I did request hooks on the tongue, so perhaps the hair bands will be unnecessary. Or are you supposed to leave the tongue-hooks undone, as well, during the break-in period?

* What constitutes "deep knee-bend" in their eyes? Can I do two-foot turns? That's the deepest knee-bending skill I have right now, I believe. I couldn't do them in my old skates (Jackson Classiques) unless I left the top two hooks undone. I'm in Adult 2, so the things I need to work on include forward stroking, 1/2 swizzle pumps on a circle (forwards & backwards), two-foot turns on a circle, forward edges (outside & inside), forward pivots, and forward chasses. And all the basics from Adult 1, as well, but those are probably fine.

They are talking more about dips and sit spins and jump landings and counters/rockers, etc.

To be honest, I am really bad and I don't follow the instructions. I was jumping and spinning in my skates on the second day I had them (just waltz, salchow, and toe loop - I was too chicken to do a loop or higher because of how still they were and did all basic spins - scratch, back scratch, camel and sit). I have never had any problems with my skates and how they break in. On average skates last me about 2 years, maybe a little more and I'm on the ice 6-7 days a week for 2-3 hours a day.

I'm starting to get really nervous. Like, sick to my stomach nervous. I'm so afraid they won't fit, or will have some major problem that can't be fixed, like maybe the ankle will cut into my Achilles tendon like the Riedell skates do. I'm trying to be optimistic, but it's really hard. A few more hours and we'll know whether they fit, but it's killing me!

Leave the top two hooks undone while you skate for the first 4-6 hours. Then, leave just the top hook undone for the next 4-6 hours. No jumps, spins, or moves that require deep knee-bend during this time. That's it.

You won't put anything on the top two hooks.  They will be really stiff, a hairband won't do anything.

A deep knee bend - no shoot the ducks, really low sit spins - really you don't have to worry, they will feel stiff like blocks of wood on your feet you won't be able to do deep knee bends.

Just spend the 4-6 hours stroking, when you feel comfortable add in more stuff.

USA does the varnish - lots of layers of varnish and her name.  The varnish reminds me of the kind they use on wood boats.  Very durable and glossy.

That's probably why there was a delay - varnish takes a long time to dry between coats and the fumes are heady.  If the weather is humid, the varnish dries slower.  Most places don't have a climate-controlled space with adequate ventilation.  I always hated varnishing my skates because I have no patience.

At your level there's really not much you can do that could potentially damage or shorten the lifespan of your boots. 

Skaters at higher levels who are too agressive jumping and spinning in new boots may develop creases in the boots at the ankles in the wrong places since those creases can start forming before the boot has actually molded to the foot (which is the main reason behind the slow break in process, to form the boots to the foot before breaking in the ankles).  That is actually one way that heat molding helps out.. because it greatly shortens the break-in time by skipping the time required for the boots to form to the feet.

Quote from: sarahspins on July 20, 2012, 12:22:43 PM
Skaters at higher levels who are too agressive jumping and spinning in new boots may develop creases in the boots at the ankles in the wrong places since those creases can start forming before the boot has actually molded to the foot (which is the main reason behind the slow break in process, to form the boots to the foot before breaking in the ankles).  That is actually one way that heat molding helps out.. because it greatly shortens the break-in time by skipping the time required for the boots to form to the feet.

Wow - that's a great observation.  Never thought about it from that view, thanks.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on July 20, 2012, 09:55:55 AM
I'm starting to get really nervous. Like, sick to my stomach nervous. I'm so afraid they won't fit, or will have some major problem that can't be fixed, like maybe the ankle will cut into my Achilles tendon like the Riedell skates do. I'm trying to be optimistic, but it's really hard. A few more hours and we'll know whether they fit, but it's killing me!

IIRC, you did not order super-stiff boots. They will be fine. IF you cannot bend them from day one - then, they're way too stiff, so, don't worry about that, based on what you ordered, you did fine. You won't need the hairbands on the hooks at all. 

The deep knee bend thing - my kid could bend them from day one, as they were properly fitted and the proper level of stiffness was chosen.  However, he was told, specifically, to avoid aggressive stroking for those first break in stages as that does have a deep knee bend, as well as jumps and anything other than an upright spin.

His coach and the fitter both strongly directed him to follow the instructions; they are what is recommended anyways for boots, so it wasn't a big deal.  He's broken in many pairs over the years, custom before too, and this method worked very well.

I would suggest you replace the laces though - the Harlick provided ones were dreadful, they stretched like crazy and cut even his very well toughened fingers.

I really liked the laces that came with my Classiques, so unless I find that I love Harlick's laces, I'll probably switch over to those.

The stiffness I ordered was the lightest level. Hopefully it's not too flexible, but I figured it'd be easier to stiffen the boot if they're too light, than to deal with too-stiff boots.

QuoteThat's probably why there was a delay - varnish takes a long time to dry between coats and the fumes are heady.  If the weather is humid, the varnish dries slower.  Most places don't have a climate-controlled space with adequate ventilation.  I always hated varnishing my skates because I have no patience.

I could buy this, except--why did they lie to me? Two weeks ago, they said, "The skates are being waterproofed today, they'll be ready by this evening, and we'll ship them first thing in the morning." That was two weeks after they'd supposedly got the skates from Harlick, meaning they had my skates for four weeks. Even with several layers of varnish, it couldn't possibly take THAT long to waterproof them. And if it did, all they had to do was say, "Look, it's going to take awhile for us to waterproof them." I would have understood! But instead, they just kept stringing me along.

The laces on jackson are cotton-poly blend.. I prefer those to all nylon as well.. I think they hold tighter (nylon slips), and they're easier to tie.

Update:
My skates finally arrived around 5:45 pm. I wanted to complain, but then I saw the UPS guy drenched in sweat. I guess he's been making deliveries all day in his open truck with no AC. That can't be an easy job, so I felt bad for him. No signature was required, he dropped them by the door, rang the bell, and walked off.

They did remember the custom insoles, although they scared us, because they weren't in the box. Turns out they'd already put them inside the skates. Which, upon reflection, probably means my skates don't have insoles. That could be inconvenient if I decide I don't like the Superfeet. There was no note of apology--not that I expected one--but there were a few freebies: two pairs of laces (though the skates had none, so I guess it's technically one pair of free laces), a pair of "TuffTerrys" soakers, and a pair of hard guards.

The skates themselves are beautiful. Nice coloring, gorgeous leather, brass hooks, very nice. The rubber sponge tongues are a bit . . . weird. It'll take some getting used to the texture, but I'm sure they'll be comfortable. Minor complaint--no name on the soles! I didn't really care one way or the other about that, so it's no big deal, except that they did promise it. However, it's possible they weren't able to do it because Harlick's name is inscribed beautifully on the soles. So either they forgot my name and decided "Harlick" would do, or Harlick branded them first.

So, I took a deep breath and put the skates on. My first impression? PAIN. Oh-my-God-please-make-it-stop pain. Mainly at my big toe, which appears to be about an eighth of an inch longer than the inside of the skate.

I was ready to throw the stupid things out the nearest window, but I remembered one of y'all had said they change shape when they're laced. So I decided to give that a try. I tapped my foot back and laced them all proper-like. The pain eased a little. Huge relief.

Then I stood up.

It felt like someone had jabbed a screwdriver under my big toenail. My toe strikes against what feels like wood, but which I'm sure is just the hard leather interior of the toe box. There is also pain at my bunions. The skates are skintight, so whenever I flex my foot, the bunions at my pinkie toe and big toe get pressed upon, resulting in a stabbing pain. I imagine they can punch those out, if necessary, but my husband wants me to wait and see if they'll "break in" and eventually mold to my foot.

I think my Classiques stretched as I wore them, so that after a couple months they were longer in the toe. However, I'm wondering if I can skate in these meanwhile. How do you break them in when they're so painful you want to cry? The whole reason I got custom skates was so they would fit my feet and I wouldn't have to suffer while skating anymore.

So, what can I do? Can I use moleskin or something to pad the bunions? Will that make a difference or will the extra padding make them tighter against the bunion, increasing the pain? Can I put moleskin down in the toes to pad my big toe? Or will that make them worse? Can I put shoe horns or something in there to stretch the boot out? It doesn't need to be much bigger, I just need to ease the pressure on my big toe until they stretch on their own. (I hope.)

My husband wanted to go skating tonight. I'm thinking, you've gotta be kidding me! I'm not going on the ice in these things until I can stand up in them without wanting to cry. I know they need time to adjust and break-in. Discomfort, I expected. But not pain. Not like this. What is WRONG with my stupid feet?

There is NOTHING wrong with your feet.  It sounds like the custom fitting isn't correct. It should have addressed a too-long big toe.  But - before we all panic:  Unlace them down to the toe. Put your feet in. Start lacing up. Pull it as TIGHT AS YOU CAN on each lace cross - or get your husband to pull them. You should feel the toe of the skate lifting up and away. 

The only reason I want you to try relacing them is that my kid had similar "oh crap, they're pushing on my toe" when he put his on, but, when he pulled the lacing really tight, it went away.

IF that doesn't do it, then, complain. Custom skates should fit all of the quirks and oddities of your feet.  You could try to get it punched or stretched, but, why should you? They're custom ! they should fit! (plus, it's hard to get toes punched out).

Do not worry- when you stand, your balance is not the same as when you skate.  When you bend your knees, the heel will sink further back and the toes will retreat.

I think Harlicks  are really cut to the foot shape.  My Riedells had room in the toes (even though my measurements were correct) and that drove me crazy  when I bent my knees.  With the custom Harlicks I can feel the toe barely brushing up against the front when I skate, but it really pushes into it when I just stand with straight knees.  Make sure you BEND, BEND , BEND your knees when you skate.

Bunions have to be punched out right away- no reason to suffer!  I had the same issue with my ankle bones- I could not even lace up the skates when I first got them- there was so much pain.  They heat molded the boots first and that did not solve the issue at all!  A couple of punches make a HUGE difference.   They will feel very stiff, so follow Harlick's break-in - they will break in and feel good, but since you do not skate a lot, it will take longer :-(   

I am happy to hear you finally got the boots!

Harlicks are heat moldable - is there anyone local who can do that for you?  It may help with some of the issues, provided that whomever is doing the molding knows what they're doing beyond simply heating them up and lacing them up (that alone would help, but a good heat molder has a few tricks they can do to make them even better).  I second Sk8tmum's advice to pull UP on the lace crosses (not tightening the laces, just pulling up on the lace crosses over the toe box area) to see if that will help give you a little more space in the toe box.

You mention that you tapped your heel back, but you may have to do it MUCH harder to really seat your heel - if your heel isn't back all the way your toes will end up crunched up.  Also, an obvious thing, make sure your toenails are trimmed short - especially on the big toe.

It is possible to have the big toe area punched, as well as where your bunions are.. if your local rink has a punch available (most do - hockey players use them too).  Usually you'll need to completely unlace the skates and flip the tongue out to reach that far inside though.. sometimes they're not used to punching anything but ankles but you CAN punch lower down and even into the toe box, don't let them say they "can't" - they can.  If you can also identify where/if your ankles need to be punched you can get that done at the same time too.  I have a friend who had to get her custom boots punched near the toes twice before they were comfortable, but now she says they fit like a glove and she's glad she didn't give up on them.

Skates are supposed to fit very tight... every pair of boots I've ever had has been somewhat uncomfortable in the beginning - to a degree that is normal, because they haven't yet molded to your feet, and if they are too comfortable when you first put them on they're probably going to end up too big.  However extreme pain isn't normal.  If you don't think they fit right, that may not be something that will improve with time or punching.  Personally I would contact Harlick and see what they recommend doing, before anything else.  

Yes, sit and bang your heel down hard a couple of time (dd does this on the rubber floor of the rink, not in the house.

"The whole reason I got custom skates was so they would fit my feet and I wouldn't have to suffer while skating anymore."

New skates always make dd want to cry.  They feel too confining, like cement blocks.

Get them punched.  Do not suffer - they punch ankles and other areas on new skates.  When they do it might make the leather look weird (almost like a small bubble?)- don't worry that look goes away over a day or so. 

Your toe should just touch the inside of the skate.

Quote from: Sk8tmum on July 20, 2012, 07:59:43 PM
There is NOTHING wrong with your feet.  It sounds like the custom fitting isn't correct. It should have addressed a too-long big toe.  But - before we all panic:  Unlace them down to the toe. Put your feet in. Start lacing up. Pull it as TIGHT AS YOU CAN on each lace cross - or get your husband to pull them. You should feel the toe of the skate lifting up and away.

I tried that. It helped, but not nearly enough. The skates feel like they're at least a half size too short. I wouldn't mind if my toe brushed against the front, but it is violently shoved against the front of the boot. It feels like it's bruising my toe.

QuoteIF that doesn't do it, then, complain. Custom skates should fit all of the quirks and oddities of your feet.  You could try to get it punched or stretched, but, why should you? They're custom ! they should fit! (plus, it's hard to get toes punched out).

I think the bunion problems will ease with time. On my second wearing, they're already less pronounced. It's the too-short length that's got me worried.

Quote from: irenar5 on July 20, 2012, 08:26:22 PM
Do not worry- when you stand, your balance is not the same as when you skate.  When you bend your knees, the heel will sink further back and the toes will retreat.

I think Harlicks  are really cut to the foot shape.  My Riedells had room in the toes (even though my measurements were correct) and that drove me crazy  when I bent my knees.  With the custom Harlicks I can feel the toe barely brushing up against the front when I skate, but it really pushes into it when I just stand with straight knees.  Make sure you BEND, BEND , BEND your knees when you skate.

I haven't worn them on the ice, but I have mimicked a skater's stance at home, and it's still bad when I bend my knees, unfortunately. The left boot isn't quite as bad, but with the right boot, I'm scrunching my toes to avoid serious pain. If it was just a matter of the toe "brushing" the front, I'd be fine, but it feels as if the boot is at least a quarter inch too short.

Quote from: sarahspins on July 20, 2012, 08:30:33 PM
Harlicks are heat moldable - is there anyone local who can do that for you?  It may help with some of the issues, provided that whomever is doing the molding knows what they're doing beyond simply heating them up and lacing them up (that alone would help, but a good heat molder has a few tricks they can do to make them even better).  I second Sk8tmum's advice to pull UP on the lace crosses (not tightening the laces, just pulling up on the lace crosses over the toe box area) to see if that will help give you a little more space in the toe box.

There is nobody local who does heat-molding, as far as I know. We have one pro-shop, but the owner himself admits he's clueless about the business. They use an automatic machine to sharpen skates, and they sell a lot of hockey equipment. That's about it. As far as tightening the laces, I used a lace hook when I laced them, so they got pretty snug. In fact, my right foot went to sleep after about 10 minutes. Didn't help much. I think I did it the way you suggested, but I'm not entirely sure. I pulled up at the crosses, but it tightened them when I did that.

QuoteYou mention that you tapped your heel back, but you may have to do it MUCH harder to really seat your heel - if your heel isn't back all the way your toes will end up crunched up.  Also, an obvious thing, make sure your toenails are trimmed short - especially on the big toe.

I tapped my heel hard enough to jar the guards loose. It was about as hard as I usually do it. I've got my nails trimmed as short as I dare, if I go any shorter, I end up with ingrown nails. I'll risk it and try cutting them shorter anyway, but quite honestly, I don't think that will buy me more than 1/16" and it feels like the boots are at least 1/8" to 1/4" too short. But perhaps it's an illusion, perhaps they're just a hair too short, and it just feels much worse.

I think I may have identified at least part of the problem. The toe box is too shallow. If I squeeze from the sides, making the toe area taller, the pain eases tremendously. Of course, then they're too narrow, but at least it's a clue. Is there a way to stretch them vertically, to make the toes taller? The guy who fit me said that my feet were very thick, and he measured around my ball, arch, heel, and ankle, but he didn't measure around my toes, so that could be part of what's happening here. I do feel like they're too short, as well, but that might be bearable if we can find a way to stretch the height of the toe box. Any ideas?

I just wore them for perhaps 10 minutes, and 5 minutes later, my toes are still feeling bruised. It's definitely something that needs attention. I'm loathe to ship them back to Harlick, though, because who knows how long they'll take to fix them? Or if they even can fix them? I'll do what needs to be done, of course, but I'd like to try and fix them myself, first.

Other than the toe problem (and the bunion problem, which is already starting to ease) the skates are pretty comfortable. I love the heel lock and all the padding. The ankles are fine, no problem there. They're great, except for being too short and too shallow at the big toe.

I wonder if the toe area would fit better without the superfeet?

Quote from: hopskipjump on July 20, 2012, 11:55:30 PM
I wonder if the toe area would fit better without the superfeet?

LOL! You won't believe this, but my husband suggested this very thing not five minutes ago, when I told him how the toes were too shallow. We just pried the Superfeet out and it made a discernible difference! They're still short in the toe, but it's not as excruciating. Of course, now there's no insoles in the skates. . . . and I won't have any support for my pronation. No clue what to do about that. Also, it somehow made my bunion worse, perhaps because it's hitting in a different location now. But those can be punched, so I'm not as worried.

I'm guessing that the skate shop forgot to tell Harlick about the insoles when they placed the order. You're supposed to mention any orthotics that are going to be used, so they can make allowance for them. If they forgot, that would explain why they're too tight in the toe. I almost want to ask the skate shop to pay for a new pair of skates, since this is (probably) their fault.

Right now, my toes are too bruised from the previous attempts to wear the skates, so I can't tell if removing the Superfeet is enough of a difference. I plan to try again in the morning, once my feet have had a chance to recover from being squished.

Orianna don't you live near Chicago?  I don't know exactly where this place is but I always figured if I was in the area I would go to this place:

http://www.shoprainbo.com/about/locations.cfm

Just a suggestion. 

You could try putting in a foot-shaped "insole" out of a piece of thin leather or even very very thin cardboard - I think there are a lot of people on this list that can help with that IIRC from many old threads about insoles.

I have used Dr. Sholls thin insoles when I needed a little extra over the thin leather that is the insole in my skates.

Everyone goes to Rainbo in Chicago area if not half of Midwest!

No, Chicago is something like ten hours away. We live near Memphis, TN. There is nothing nearby. We didn't even have a skating rink until last autumn. It's why I had to fly to California to get fitted for the skates. I was there visiting family, but it was the only opportunity I had to get fitted.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on July 21, 2012, 12:41:22 AM
No, Chicago is something like ten hours away. We live near Memphis, TN. There is nothing nearby. We didn't even have a skating rink until last autumn. It's why I had to fly to California to get fitted for the skates. I was there visiting family, but it was the only opportunity I had to get fitted.

Oh, sorry.  I must have been confusing you with someone else.

Good luck with the skates.  I have never had to get customs but most of the time new skates present with some difficulties... I know that is probably not that helpful.

You could always take the insoles out of your old skates and fit them into the new ones...

As far as bunions, bony ankles etc go, I don't know whether Harlick customs actually take account of these, or whether they just expect you to have those parts "punched out" when you get them?

Re the length issues - if the end of your toe/s is/are pushing against the inside toe of the boot, that to me would indicate a too-short boot.  However, you say that when you squeeze the boots at the sides, making the toe box taller, this markedly improves matters, so where is the boot actually hitting you?  The tip of the toe, or the top of the toenail, or the top front quarter (corner) of the toenail, or maybe all three?

There is an easy test for internal length, if your superfeet insoles fit your boots.  Do the insoles fit exactly inside the new boots (ie the insole lies flat on the sole and the edge of the insole exactly meets the edge of the upper)?  You can test this just by feeling around inside the boot with your finger.  If the insoles are an exact fit in the boots, take the insole out and simply stand on it, making sure your heel is accurately placed.  Test both feet.

Is the insole at least the same length as your foot, or is it shorter?  If shorter, then I'm going to say that either the measurements were off, or the boots were not made to the measurements.  Whichever, I'm not sure that a too-short boot is recoverable; they will probably need to be remade, but that should not be at your expense.
 
I'm sorry you're having these problems, especially since you were so looking forward to these boots.  I hope they are OK and can be made comfortable for you.

Quote from: aussieskater on July 21, 2012, 01:04:18 AM
As far as bunions, bony ankles etc go, I don't know whether Harlick customs actually take account of these, or whether they just expect you to have those parts "punched out" when you get them?

Yes, they do; our fitter put notes and little markings on the drawings that went to Harlick re: a couple of bony protusions on the feet, the ankle bone issue, and where there is some scar tissue from badly fitting skates from years ago.  All of these were accomodated.

Honestly, we've had 5 pairs of custom skates made over the years, some Klings now Harlicks.  We've never had to have them heat molded, punched, stretched, or anything.  And this is a kid whose feet are so weird and have some many bumps and things that stock skates are not an option (those had to be punched, stretched, et etc etc and never fit).  Every time, the fitter measured every single aspect of the foot, including depth over the toe box, ankle size, everything.  Don Klingbeil made careful note of every oddity, so did the local fitters.  I'm starting to think that I've been seriously blessed with the fitters we use ... although let's face it, you can't get better than Don K. 

Much as you hate to do it, I would contact USA Skates again. They didn't do everything you want, and they took your moneyfor a rush service and didn't provide it.  Don't talk to the fitter: talk to whoever his boss is. Or, if your coach is amenable, get the coach to call. I've discovered that fitters, etc, get antsy when a coach calls as they figure that coaches are the source of business :)

Quote from: icedancer2 on July 21, 2012, 12:48:39 AM
You could always take the insoles out of your old skates and fit them into the new ones...

Unfortunately not. My old skates are much narrower, for one. They're also at least a half size longer. I tried putting the insoles into my new skates and they bunched up and didn't fit well at all. Even if I trimmed them down, they'd still be too narrow. And then I wouldn't be able to sell my old skates (which are actually still pretty new). It was a good thought, though. :)

Quote from: aussieskater on July 21, 2012, 01:04:18 AM
As far as bunions, bony ankles etc go, I don't know whether Harlick customs actually take account of these, or whether they just expect you to have those parts "punched out" when you get them?

No, they take bunions into account. He traced around my foot, and then placed an X on the drawing at each bunion.

QuoteRe the length issues - if the end of your toe/s is/are pushing against the inside toe of the boot, that to me would indicate a too-short boot.  However, you say that when you squeeze the boots at the sides, making the toe box taller, this markedly improves matters, so where is the boot actually hitting you?  The tip of the toe, or the top of the toenail, or the top front quarter (corner) of the toenail, or maybe all three?

It's really hard to tell, honestly. The pain radiates, so it's difficult to say where, exactly, it's coming from.

QuoteThere is an easy test for internal length, if your superfeet insoles fit your boots.  Do the insoles fit exactly inside the new boots (ie the insole lies flat on the sole and the edge of the insole exactly meets the edge of the upper)?  You can test this just by feeling around inside the boot with your finger.  If the insoles are an exact fit in the boots, take the insole out and simply stand on it, making sure your heel is accurately placed.  Test both feet.

Is the insole at least the same length as your foot, or is it shorter?  If shorter, then I'm going to say that either the measurements were off, or the boots were not made to the measurements.  Whichever, I'm not sure that a too-short boot is recoverable; they will probably need to be remade, but that should not be at your expense.

I didn't feel the insoles before they were removed, and it was such a pain to get them out that I'm not going to try replacing them just yet, but my husband said they felt like they fit pretty well inside the boot. I stood on them and took a photo.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7269/7615515670_28d1b146aa_m.jpg)

As you can see, they seem to be too long! But they are also too narrow. Not sure what that means, but I strongly suspect that 95% of the problem is a too-shallow toe box. Can this be stretched vertically? Can I do this myself by sticking something down into the toe? Or do I need to take them to a skate tech to be stretched? I don't think we need the length messed with, just the height of the toe.

Quote from: Sk8tmum on July 21, 2012, 10:18:58 AM
Much as you hate to do it, I would contact USA Skates again. They didn't do everything you want, and they took your moneyfor a rush service and didn't provide it.  Don't talk to the fitter: talk to whoever his boss is. Or, if your coach is amenable, get the coach to call. I've discovered that fitters, etc, get antsy when a coach calls as they figure that coaches are the source of business :)

Frankly, would they care, since my coach is in Tennessee and the shop is in California? Not much business to be lost, considering. I'd much rather deal with Harlick. They're on the ball. They took care of the matter immediately, got my skates shipped in 10 minutes, when I'd been trying for weeks. And they're the ones who guarantee their work. The skate shop clearly says, "NO refunds on custom skates!" So I don't think they'd be able to help much.

Update!
I trimmed my toenails a second time, and tried the skates on without the insoles. And they fit! This is me jumping up and down with glee. There is some bruising happening to the bunion on my pinkie toe, but I'm confident it will improve as the skates break in. And it's not horrendous pain, just uncomfortable, which I can deal with. So now we just need to get them broken in and we'll be all set! I'll have to keep my nails trimmed shorter than I like, risking ingrown nails, but I'd rather do that than have skates that were THAT painful. My gosh, it was horrible. You have no idea how relieved I am that we solved the problem.

I tried putting the insoles back in after I clipped my toenails, but they're just too thick. The pain is unbearable with them in place. And interestingly, I fell to the inside edges just as much with the insoles as I did without them. I do think the skates are more comfortable with them, because they offer some arch support. But the toe pain is simply not tolerable. So out the insoles go--unless we can find a way to stretch the toes vertically. I'm really annoyed with the skate shop for not having Harlick compensate for the insoles!

Now I'll have to figure out something to use in place of the insoles, because I believe skating without them will introduce sweat and bacteria directly to the sole of the boot, which will cause it to break down faster, right? But whatever I choose will have to be THIN. Perhaps a layer of suede or fine leather, trimmed to fit. They'll undoubtedly come out every time I remove the boots, but if they'll prolong the life of the skates, I'll deal with that. Would faux poly-suede work, do you think? I have some leftover from a pair of spats I was making. It's polyester, so not real absorbent, but then, how absorbent is real suede? (I've no idea.) I can find real suede, but it will be expensive.

Once you get them broken in, I bet you can get your toe nails back to their normal length...  The leather will mold better to your feet.

Glad they don't hurt so bad- and hope they work for you.

Not sure what to say about the insoles, as long as you don't skate barefoot (I do), you're probably okay without them.

Call Harlick and ask them to send you a pair of insoles. They do sell them; and, with all of the problems you've had, explaining to them that "somehow" the skates that were supposed to fit the insoles that your fitter had fitted them for don't fit ... they might be sympathetic.

I would let Harlick deal with the USA skates.  Call Harlick and explain the situation.  Tell them that it appears the skates were not produced with the allowance for  the  custom Superfeet insoles (even though you were fitted with them before the skates were made).  Ask them what to do, how can they help you solve this issue.

I think Harlick will help you, since they are already aware of the situation with the USA skates not being responsive.

I had my Harlicks made with their original insoles (just a thin leather piece).  It was very uncomfortable, so Harlick made me poron insoles, which were more comfortable.  In the end I went with custom Superfeet, which fit into the boot snugly, but not uncomfortably.  My Superfeet were done after the boots were made.   Perhaps, you can thin out the Superfeet insole gradually from the the ball toward the toe?  Maybe a shoe store would do it for you?

Quote from: irenar5 on July 21, 2012, 01:54:02 PM
Maybe a shoe store would do it for you?

Or a good cobbler - you must have one around there somewhere!!

FWIW, I'm not always convinced that width can 100% be judged by the insole... my feet go WAY over the sides of the insoles on my jacksons but my feet feel just fine in my boots.

Anyways, you mention your Harlicks don't have insoles - do you see stitching along the edges of the inside bottom or a smooth leather lining?  If you see smooth leather then that is Harlick's standard "sock liner" insole, and you can skate with nothing more than that if you want... not all stock insoles are thick like Jackson's are.  You really don't need to add anything unless you can clearly see stitching.

SP Teri's come with a "sock liner" of sorts that is simply a thin piece of vinyl and what I will assume to be spray adhesive.. it stays in place well enough, but it can be peeled out if needed.  If you make your own I would get that type of material - you can get it at any fabric store in the upholstery section.

You mention that you tend to get ingrown toenails.. as long as you don't trim the "sides" of your nail super short you should be fine keeping them trimmed short, and with skates the part that needs to be shortest is in the middle.  I tend to notice my nails getting long when I wear holes in my tights over my big toe nail.. if I wait until it hurts they've gotten WAY too long :)

Quote from: sarahspins on July 21, 2012, 05:01:59 PM
FWIW, I'm not always convinced that width can 100% be judged by the insole... my feet go WAY over the sides of the insoles on my jacksons but my feet feel just fine in my boots.

I agree with you sarahspins - my feet do the same!  But I do think standing on them is a good and easy test for internal length.  Looking at Orianna's foot, I don't think her boot is too short; the toe box is just not quite the right shape on the big toe side.   When Orianna contacts Harlick, she should send them a copy of that photo - it clearly shows the problem area.

My foot is pretty much the same shape as Orianna's, except for a much longer 2nd toe, and I know I had to punch out the corner of the big toe to accommodate my big toe and toenail.  It was difficult to get the punch down that far, and had to be done more than once to make the punch-out "stick", but it was absolutely worth the effort.  I also punched out the ball at the bunion spot - I swear the boots went from an E to an F at that single point!  I don't have Harlicks, though.

Quote from: sarahspins on July 21, 2012, 05:01:59 PM
You mention that you tend to get ingrown toenails.. as long as you don't trim the "sides" of your nail super short you should be fine keeping them trimmed short, and with skates the part that needs to be shortest is in the middle.

Looking at Orianna's photo, I suspect the boots are actually pressing on the corner of her big toenail.  I'd be getting more room made in the boot at that spot, though, rather than cutting into the corrner of the toenail - as you say, that's a recipe for ingrown toenails!

Quote from: Sk8tmum on July 21, 2012, 12:21:37 PM
Call Harlick and ask them to send you a pair of insoles. They do sell them; and, with all of the problems you've had, explaining to them that "somehow" the skates that were supposed to fit the insoles that your fitter had fitted them for don't fit ... they might be sympathetic.

That's what I was thinking I would do. I'll shoot them an email tomorrow and see what they say.

Quote from: irenar5 on July 21, 2012, 01:54:02 PM
My Superfeet were done after the boots were made.   Perhaps, you can thin out the Superfeet insole gradually from the the ball toward the toe?  Maybe a shoe store would do it for you?

We were wondering if that could be done. You think maybe a shoe repair store could do it? I'll see what Harlick says, perhaps they'll know of some options, too.

Quote from: sarahspins on July 21, 2012, 05:01:59 PM
Anyways, you mention your Harlicks don't have insoles - do you see stitching along the edges of the inside bottom or a smooth leather lining?  If you see smooth leather then that is Harlick's standard "sock liner" insole, and you can skate with nothing more than that if you want... not all stock insoles are thick like Jackson's are.  You really don't need to add anything unless you can clearly see stitching.

No, it's definitely not a liner. There is stitching and it looks like wood.

We went to the rink tonight for about an hour. Gosh, after not skating for three months I am sadly out of shape! I was aching and sore after just a few minutes of stroking and swizzles. I can definitely feel the toe when I skate. It's not exactly painful, but it's not really comfortable, either. I'm hoping it will mold to my foot given time, but we'll see. My arches started to ache a little, after a few circuits of the rink. I can't tell if it's because of the lack of arch support, or perhaps my foot is too wide and overlapping the arch support like on my Classiques, or perhaps it's just a normal adjustment to the new skates. I really can't tell at this point. It was definitely worse on the right foot. Everything is worse on the right foot!

One thing that bothered me was that I could not scrape my blades sideways at all. I couldn't do a snowplow, I couldn't do half-swizzle pumps. Anything that required diagonal motion simply didn't work. It was quite unnerving. I think the blades were either too sharp, or have a too deep ROH. Hopefully it will improve with time.

I'll definitely contact Harlick tomorrow and see what they have to say. I don't want to start breaking in the boots without the insoles if there's something that can be done so I can wear them, after all. But I really don't want to have to ship the skates back to them, either. Especially when all they have is my word to go on that it's too shallow/short/whatever in the toe box.

My Edeas came with like, "real" insoles, like the kind you'd get in a shoe. My Jacksons came with like, insoles as thick as like a few sheets of construction paper. To a point, I think you'd not want too thick of an insole, as if it's too thick, it'd inhibit feedback with your foot and the ice. And yes, as you're talking about, insoles you can pretty much use to move up half a size or so in footwear, as you're creating less space by filling some of the volume with insole.

Heard back from Harlick this afternoon. She said no note was given that said Superfeet would be used with the skates. Had they known, they would have sanded the toe area down to make room for the insoles. She also said that a pair of leather sockliners were included with the skates, and since I didn't receive them, I should ask USASkates if they still have them. If they've thrown them out, I can buy a new pair for $10 from Harlick.

They can "relast" (stretch) the toe box as needed, if I send the skates back to them. Presumably, they could also sand the sole down, to make room for the Superfeet insoles, since they typically do that if they know you're going to use the insoles. She didn't say how long it would take for them to make the adjustments. Anybody have experience with that?

I have to decide now whether I want to just skate in them without the insoles, or whether I want to ship them back to Harlick, at my own expense, and have them make adjustments. If I send them back, I need to decide what, exactly, to ask them to do. Sand the toes down? Stretch the boot vertically? Horizontally? It does still hit my toes when I skate, even without the insoles, but I don't know how much of that is "normal" and will go away as the boots break in. I probably should skate in them once more before deciding.

I also noticed that my feet fell asleep rather quickly when I went skating the other night. Did I lace them too tight, perhaps? How tight is too tight? I used my skating hook to get a nice, firm lacing, but perhaps I laced them too snug.

I would call USA skates as much as you don't want to...  Let them know you spoke with Harlick and they did not get the correct order (you called and verified) and how will they fix this situation.  No returns on custom skates means no returns on the skates you ordered.  You ordered skates with them to use superfeet.  It needs to be fixed.

Update
I got a phone call from Harlick today. We discussed the issues I'm having and they're going to fix them. They're going to add wedges to the inside of the heels to correct my pronation. In addition to the wedges, they're going to stretch the toe box vertically to add room for the Superfeet, and they're going to stretch them a half size longer, so that my toes won't bump the ends. They're going to stretch a small section on the side, as well, so that it won't bruise my pinkie toe.

I'm going to start working on a letter to send USASkates to complain. There's nothing they can do to correct the problem--right now the ball is in Harlick's court--but if Harlick charges me for the wedges, I'm going to ask to be reimbursed for that, because USASkates sold me the Superfeet saying they were all the correction I needed. Come to find out, Superfeet inserts do NOT correct pronation, all they do is add arch support (according to the Harlick rep). I would also like to be reimbursed for the expedited production fee. On the phone, they told me this was half of the normal production time, whatever that normally would be, so if they took 10 weeks, I'd get them in 5, if they took 18 weeks, I'd get them in 9. But my receipt specifically said 5-6 weeks. Period. It didn't say "half of regular production time," it just said 5-6 weeks and it took them much longer than that. Plus the whole business with them taking a MONTH to ship me the skates after they'd received them from Harlick was utterly ridiculous.

I can't call and complain, because I'm no good at discussing things on the phone or in person. I can't think up logical arguments on the spot. I also get highly emotional, which isn't good. And I forget vital details. But if I can write a letter, I can lay out all my points in a calm, reasonable manner. Hopefully it will do the trick.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on August 13, 2012, 08:20:53 PMPlus the whole business with them taking a MONTH to ship me the skates after they'd received them from Harlick was utterly ridiculous.

No kidding, they'd be refunding the expedite fee for that alone if I were in your position.. because it's absolutely inexcusable.  Harlick's production time is out of their control, but how long they did nothing with your skates once they had them is something different and there is no reason they needed to keep them so long.  They outright lied to you more than once that they had shipped them or that they would be shipped, and yet they weren't until you contacted Harlick, at which point it seems they shipped them overnight (am I correct there?)... clearly they realized they messed up by then.

Anyways, I am glad to hear that Harlick has some possibilities for you, and hopefully they will get your boots back to you exactly how you need them :)

Good to know Harlick is doing what they can to make amends.  Are you going to be sending your boots directly to Harlick?

Yes, the boots go directly to Harlick. I won't have any more contact with USASkates unless/until I write/call them to complain about their service.

Quote from: sarahspins on August 13, 2012, 08:47:07 PMThey outright lied to you more than once that they had shipped them or that they would be shipped, and yet they weren't until you contacted Harlick, at which point it seems they shipped them overnight (am I correct there?)... clearly they realized they messed up by then.

They shipped the boots within 15 minutes of the email I sent Harlick. I don't remember for sure, but I believe you're right, that they were sent next-day-delivery. They had promised my name engraved on the soles, as well, which didn't happen. I think it's because "Harlick" is already written on the sole, but they could have sent a note saying, "Sorry, we couldn't add your name."

Quote from: Orianna2000 on August 14, 2012, 09:10:19 AM
They shipped the boots within 15 minutes of the email I sent Harlick. I don't remember for sure, but I believe you're right, that they were sent next-day-delivery. They had promised my name engraved on the soles, as well, which didn't happen. I think it's because "Harlick" is already written on the sole, but they could have sent a note saying, "Sorry, we couldn't add your name."

My kid's skates have Harlick on them too, and Harlick offered to put a name on them. You can have both. Did you pay for the engraving?

No, I didn't pay for the name engraving. They'd offered it for free, perhaps an attempt at placating me, since I had just hinted at wanting my expedited production fee refunded and he'd swiftly explained why it was "okay" that the skates had taken several weeks longer than I'd been promised.

I'm really glad I've documented the whole process here. I've got approximate dates of phone conversations, along with what promises were made, and the details of everything that happened, because I posted it here. Without all that, I wouldn't be able to write my complaint letter to USASkates.

Quote from: Orianna2000 on August 14, 2012, 10:01:50 AM
I'm really glad I've documented the whole process here. I've got approximate dates of phone conversations, along with what promises were made, and the details of everything that happened, because I posted it here. Without all that, I wouldn't be able to write my complaint letter to USASkates.

I am glad too, because it definitely helps to document everything - and not only that, but it's public, and I would hope that USASkates would want to make this right.

Has anyone else ordered things from USA Skates? What were your experiences?

Just a quick update.

The skates are with Harlick now. They're going to add wedges to the heels to correct pronation, they're going to stretch the toes, and everything else I need to make them fit properly. I think part of the problem is how tall my big toes are, so I sent along photos of my toes with a ruler behind them, so they could see how tall they are. Maybe the boots just need to be stretched vertically, rather than lengthwise. At any rate, hopefully we'll get them back in a couple of weeks and everything will be peachy. (Here's hoping!)

Update!

I got the skates back yesterday from Harlick. It's hard to say for sure without actually getting on the ice with them, but they seem to be a lot better. I can put them on without crying or wincing in pain, at least. My toes still touch the ends of the boots, but not painfully, and it may be resolved on-ice. In any case, it doesn't seem to hurt, so I'm not going to complain much.

A new problem cropped up, because my foot is now higher in the skate (because of the Superfeet insoles) there's a place that rubs against my bunion. I'm going to try those bunion stick-on pads and see if that will cushion it while the skates break in. Hopefully the problem will go away as the leather stretches with use. If not, I'll have to drive five hours and get them stretched.

I'm cautiously optimistic that the fixes Harlick did will work. Hopefully I can try them out at the rink soon.

Good luck on your new skates! I hope they work well for you, after all the trouble you've been through to get them...

Just wanted to add . . . USASkates promised to sharpen my skates for me before shipping them off, because we have no one locally who can do that. Well, I was having trouble skating on them, I couldn't do a snowplow to save my life, and they just felt "off." So we drove three hours to the nearest rink with a decent sharpener, he took one look and said, "These have never been sharpened. They're straight from the factory."

Oh, I'm so furious right now. If they didn't want to take the 20 minutes to sharpen them, they ought to have just said so. >:(

On the bright side, I'm looking forward to skating on them tomorrow, now that they're actually sharpened!  ;D

Quote from: Orianna2000 on November 03, 2012, 08:06:00 PMhe took one look and said, "These have never been sharpened. They're straight from the factory."

How would a bad sharpening at the factory be perceptibly different from a bad sharpening at the shop?

Quote from: Query on November 05, 2012, 01:16:51 PM
How would a bad sharpening at the factory be perceptibly different from a bad sharpening at the shop?

It's my understanding that a so-called "factory sharpening" isn't a sharpening at all. The guy who did my skates said something about the curve of the blade being entirely different from how it is once you've sharpened them. The edges were dull, as well. You're not meant to skate on blades that only have a factory sharpening.

Did you have sharpening on your receipt?

Quote from: hopskipjump on November 05, 2012, 01:43:36 PM
Did you have sharpening on your receipt?

No, it was something I'd requested over the phone, after everything had already been paid for. I called and asked if they could sharpen them before they shipped them, since we haven't a local sharpener. They agreed, so I was expecting a bill. The skates arrived, no bill, so I assumed they'd done it gratis, as a token attempt to make up for taking so long to ship the skates to me. I don't know whether they just forgot, or overlooked it, or whether they were in too much of a hurry after Harlick yelled at them to get my skates shipped, or what.

I'm not angry anymore. I'm so tired of the whole mess, I just don't care anymore.  :P

Have you tried your sharpened skates? How were they?

I did get to try the sharpened skates. They work great--I can stop, yay! The only problem now is the bunion pain, which I just bought a gel pad for. Hopefully that will do the trick and everything will be okay. I am noticing that my feet just ache in general while I'm skating, but I'm guessing that's either because I haven't skated regularly since last April, so the muscles need to be strengthened, or if it's because the boots still need to be broken in. Either way, I'm hopeful it will pass soon. I just want to skate! I don't want all this drama.

I don't think you can tell a bad sharpening job done at the shop from a bad one done at the factory.

But I assume Harlick would have done a careful job if they did sharpen the blades, so your pro is probably right.

BTW, my Ultima blades came with excellent factory edges were excellent, and the rocker profiles were very consistent. (I hated the rocker profile - but that is personal taste.)

Just to clarify, it wasn't Harlick who promised to sharpen them, it was USASkates. I'm sure if Harlick had said they'd sharpen them, they would have come back sharpened.

My sharpener said the blades were good quality. Not quite the level of the skates themselves (obviously, since the custom Harlicks were close to $1,000 and I only paid $100 for the blades) but still good. My Mirage blades had one that was slightly defective, so he may have just been comparing the new blades to those when he said they were good quality.