I'm new here and very thankful for finding this board. My dd has recently discovered figure skating and really seems to like it. I wouldn't say "love it" just yet, but she certainly likes it more than any of the other activities she has tried. i.e. soccer, gymnastics, swimming, etc.
She started with a group class once a week about 6 weeks ago but has since gone to two classes a week and private lessons. Her coach has made it clear that she has "unbelievable natural talent" and claims she sees a "competitive spirit" in her. I don't see that but maybe it's because I'm her dad? Either way, we are now doing the group classes and 3 private lessons a week. I have no idea how this works, but it seems this sport may have it's share of unscrupulous characters. That said, is the coach telling me this so I continue with more lessons, or is it possible to believe that a coach, after six weeks, can decide that a 5 year old has so much natural talent? Of course I want to believe this is true, but I can't help but wonder how many other parents have heard the same things and as a result continued to spend money on lessons.
As a barometer, she has gone from never being in an ice rink, to passing her Alpha test in just under six weeks. For all I know, this could be perfectly normal and not at all because of some unbelievable talent.
At this point I think the important thing is that she is having fun and she has not even mentioning quitting like she has with all the other things she has tried, but I am not interested in entering into a long term relationship with a coach who may be stretching the truth so she can get paid. It's also important to note that i have no reason to believe the coach isn't being honest; she has been a professional since we started. I guess I am just a pessimist. Thank you all in advance for your feedback.
For a 5-year old, she may be a "natural talent" (that is, really seems to like it, catches on quickly) but I wouldn't rush to put her in private lessons. Keep her in the group lessons through at least Gamma, and then maybe supplement private lessons at Delta if you think she needs it.
If she has a gymnastics background, even at 5, she may just have more coordination than many of the kids the coach sees. But even future Olympians are just at the 'having fun' stage at this age. The 5-year old prodigies don't usually stick around until they are 8 if they are burnt out too early. Let her be a kid, get the basics down, and then you can worry about being a "skate parents" later :)
Also- I teach tots, and Alpha in 6-weeks if she never had skates on before is pretty good for a 5-year old, unless they "take it easy" on the kids for the tests, lots of rinks do "pity pass" at the end of every class. Did every kid pass? (It's okay if they did- but are they all looking like they are about the same level? If a kid who looks like he can't do anything also passed, then you have a bit more to doubt about the rigor of the program...) Did she do Pre-Alpha first?
If the coach stresses the need for privates (or MORE privates if your rink doesn't offer groups) say for now, the goal is to have fun. A good coach will understand that for a 5-year old!
Thanks for the reply Skittle. I'll try to answer your questions for more detail.
She did pass pre-alpha first and yes the rink does offer plenty of group lessons. I dislike them because the teachers change from week to week, and with 8-12 5 year olds in a class there really doesn't seem to be much learning taking place. The coaches, as they should, tend to spend the most time with the slowest students and I complete get that, but it stresses me out when I see her doing something wrong and the coaches in the classes are too busy with other students to correct her. Seems allowing her to do things incorrectly may be doing more harm than good, or at least that's the way I view it.
When she tested it wasn't in a group setting, there is one person at the rink that does the ISI testing (for a fee of course) and she tested dd both time. I don't know how many students that test for pre-alpha and alpha actually don't pass, but that would be good information to have. In my opinion, she hasn't "mastered" the things in either test, but she can do them. I have yet to understand if passing the ISI tests is based on mastering the maneuvers or simply performing them without falling down. lol
The coach hasn't asked for more private lessons, it was actually my dd that asked. She really likes the one on one instruction as opposed to the groups. It's in my nature to push so I have completely stepped back and allowed dd to take the lead in how much or how little she wants to skate.
The most important thing (imho) is having fun on the ice at 5. Dd did one class and one private (because yes, kids do learn faster one on one). But it's REALLY important for dd to have friends to skate practice and public sessions with and it's more fun if you have a class together. Personally I'd do a group lesson (it is standard for a new coach for every new session) and one private and the third day just have her meet friends to practice.
Dd was like yours - fresh from competitive gymnastics and moved quickly through alpha - gamma. Dd was 5 and skipped pre-alpha.
Now I have a friend who has her dd at several rinks from age 3 with the best coaches, skating daily for a couple hours a day. She has rearranged her life to accommodate an intense skating schedule. Who knows, maybe she will be a future Olympian (she is barely 5 now and is pre-pre with pre mitf already passed).
Every parent has different goals for their kids and different amounts of time and money.
Dd skates and maybe one day she can make nationals. Maybe not. My focus is that she is well rounded and happy and has a solid work ethic and skating does not define her.
Let me wade in ... I don't know the coach, and I have no way of commenting on her professionalism, ethics, etc. However, there is no coach in the world who can identify that a very young, beginning skater has an above-average natural talent in skating, especially not at age 5. You can see look-fors, which are a range of things which include:
Balance
Coordination
Interest
Presentation ability
Flexibilty
Body type
A 5 year old is still a very small child, and you cannot tell at that stage what body type s/he will end up with, nor can you really measure flexibility, etc. Again, I cannot comment on your coach, but, I would be wary of any coach who is telling parents that their child is a "natural" at that age - maybe it's just a great deal of enthusiasm, but, realistically - they can't know. Nobody can.
Your child is a child. Skating should be just - fun - at this stage. If s/he wants private lessons - hmmm - my DD was in privates at age 5, and for a similar reason, that group lessons drove she and I both nuts for the reasons you cite, and, as the parent of two older skaters, I am picky as all get out in terms of quality of edges, turns, etc. However, we also picked a coach who was focussed on keeping it fun, unpressured, and who had a similar philosophy as we had - that kids should be allowed to progress at their own rates.
I would ask your DD if she wants the privates because she really loves SKATING or if she just likes doing one-on-one with an adult (some kids enjoy that very much). That will help you in understanding what is going on. Also, 5 year olds are very easily influenced; if they get the idea that they will be "amazing" if they do lessons with a particular coach (again, your coach may not be doing this, but, I have seen coaches spin little minds this way in their eagerness to get new students) - so, an open and unstructured conversation with your DD about why she wants this, and where she got the idea would be good.
I would also say that your DD is skating too much for a 5 year old. That is a lot of ice time, and a lot of lessons.
Sigh. Can you tell I'm cynical? Sorry ... I'm just very protective of little skaters and their parents - everyone should have a good experience in this sport from day one, if possible.
Thank you all very much for your feedback and comments. I really appreciate the insight from other parents. My hope is that her coach is drawing her conclusion about "natural ability" from dd's enthusiasm and eagerness to skate.
I can say that when we go for open skate (in addition to the privates and classes) I have to literally make her get off the ice when it's time to go. I would agree that this sounds like she is skating too much, but every day I pick her up from school she asks, can we skate today? And the first thing out of her mouth on Saturday and Sunday mornings is typically "can we go ice skating today?" So the time we spend at the rink is based on her desire, but maybe as the parent I should temper that somewhat so she doesn't burn out.
Again, thank you all for the comments. Being a skating "dad" I feel like I am in the minority here! :)
Quote from: SkateDad on August 25, 2011, 03:42:28 PM
Again, thank you all for the comments. Being a skating "dad" I feel like I am in the minority here! :)
Don't be ... I'm the post- er, but my husband is very very very much involved with all aspects of our 3 kids skating - he drives to comps, makes intelligent comments on skating, helps plan out session times and provides feedback to the kids, buys the skates, works with our skate sharpener, does costume consults ... is still a bit wobbly on the difference between a sal and a loop, but, he's excellent on equipment and on off-ice training and nutrition. Spends lots of time rinkside ... there are many skate dads out there.
Welcome aboard. I think the progress falls within normal range considering the amount of ice time and privates. I do believe it's possible to tell real talent of very young kids once they hit the freestyle levels. Talent in terms of mastering higher level elements, not in terms of the level of competitive success.
Quote from: Sk8tmum on August 25, 2011, 03:30:14 PM
Let me wade in ... I don't know the coach, and I have no way of commenting on her professionalism, ethics, etc. However, there is no coach in the world who can identify that a very young, beginning skater has an above-average natural talent in skating, especially not at age 5. You can see look-fors, which are a range of things which include:
Balance
Coordination
Interest
Presentation ability
Flexibilty
Body type
I disagree to the extent that I believe the very characteristics you have listed are the ones that DO demonstrate above-average ability (I've come to prefer that word to "talent") in anyone, especially small children. I've seen several 5 and under kids over the years, who could basically, just get on the ice, and skate around. However, it takes so much more than natural physical ability to become a successful competitive skater.
SkateDad - I like that you are letting your daughter lead the way, but I do feel just a bit wary of the coach; maybe because I would never push like that. I'm comfortable telling parents that their child has a lot of natural ability, but that's as far as I go.
There are so many other factors involved in developing a successful competitive skater, not the least of which are growth, injury, passion for the sport, and money. As long as your daughter loves what she is doing, is not getting hurt, and you can afford it, I don't see why not.
If you want to get some grounding in what talent is, check out Gia Kokotakis on YouTube, and keep in mind that she is just one of many. Start with the earliest videos of her and read the comments and parent's replies. If you have time, check out some of the other videos, especially the ones that tout their children as "future olympians." Skating is a crazy business.
Quote from: Sk8Dreams on August 25, 2011, 05:14:11 PM
If you want to get some grounding in what talent is, check out Gia Kokotakis on YouTube, and keep in mind that she is just one of many. Start with the earliest videos of her and read the comments and parent's replies. If you have time, check out some of the other videos, especially the ones that tout their children as "future olympians." Skating is a crazy business.
WOW...thats impressive. I wonder how long she's been skating?
Well, if your daughter is that talented, (according to the coach), why is she still having her do ISI? If the coach thinks this child is so talented, and may go very far in figure skating, then she should be in a USFS formatted program, shouldn't she? I guess she could do ISI for a little while, but only USFS skaters qualify for the Olympics.
I know the above sounds a bit harsh, but I've heard/seen similar scenarios from our local gymnastic coaches and a rare figure skating coach. The rush to private lessons makes me a bit suspicious, especially for her to have so many. Does she have the equal amount of practice time?
That was a little harsh, Schmeck. Since an axel is needed to be competitive in the lowest level of USFS hierarchy, serious skaters usually switch from ISI competitions to USFS competitions after ISI FS5. The group lessons at that level really don't matter much, as skaters gradually depend more on privates.
I also think starting early with private lessons is not a problem as long as coach / skater / parents keep things in perspective. It builds better foundations for sure, especially since the group classes are relatively large.
If she loves skating and you can afford the lessons / ice, let her skate! Stealing a line from Xanboni (http://xan-boni.blogspot.com/2011/01/scheduling-conflicts.html):
QuoteEver wonder about those little kids who have all their single jumps, maybe even an axel, by the time they're 7? They aren't any more talented than your kid. They just skate. All. The. Time.
Quote from: jjane45 on August 25, 2011, 10:06:45 PM
That was a little harsh, Schmeck. Since an axel is needed to be competitive in the lowest level of USFS hierarchy, serious skaters usually switch from ISI competitions to USFS competitions after ISI FS5. The group lessons at that level really don't matter much, as skaters gradually depend more on privates.
I also think starting early with private lessons is not a problem as long as coach / skater / parents keep things in perspective. It builds better foundations for sure, especially since the group classes are relatively large.
If she loves skating and you can afford the lessons / ice, let her skate!
I agree with all of this. I have kids just about this age (and one older)... personally I can't see myself investing that much time/money at such a young age, but on the flip side of that none of mine have been so focused on any one activity either (my oldest does gymnastics and is on the boy's team at his gym, but he only trains 4 hours a week), so it's really hard to say if I would make that call if they did show an extreme interest. On the flip side I wouldn't judge a parent either for supporting their children's interest either, so long as it's truly the child's desire to skate and not mom or dad.
As a skater myself, I've actually been pretty careful to not put too much pressure on my kids to take up skating. They do have their own skates and skate public with me sometimes for fun, but none of them so far have actually taken lessons. My daughter (6) only recently asked to try it, and I'm letting her take lessons soon, but I don't have any expectations out of it really other than boosting her confidence on the ice. If she wants to keep skating that's great, it's not, that's more than okay too.
Personally 2 group classes and 3 private lessons a week sounds like a lot to me - I didn't have near that much coaching at any point in my skating life, not even when I had several doubles. More isn't always better, sometimes it's just more. I got plenty of ice time in and had focused goals for my practice sessions (goals provided by my coach), which I know made up for not having a lesson every time I skated.
I wouldn't worry about when Gia started! There are a lot of girls about 10 that started skating less than a year ago and are doing beautiful Axels and working on doubles. Guess what? They are almost caught up to girls who started at 4! They are dedicated and ask to be at the rink all of the time. There are SO many talented girls - Even Gia doesn't always place first and sometimes she is the only girl in her event (don't get me wrong she is talented).
My harshness was directed at the coach, not the dad, BTW. Although, at age 5, I think that this might be too much skating and not enough other stuff, but since I don't know the family, maybe there is a lot of other fun stuff (like playing with friends) happening too.
I'm just very wary of coaches that can judge a child's potential in a few weeks, and shares that right off with a parent. Every parent wants to hear that their child is amazing - a coach that encourages a headfirst plunge into something like this (multiple group/private lessons) isn't a very good coach, IMO.
I'm also very wary of ISI, as the programs in our area are crap. The girls skating ISI have dreadful technique, and the axels they do are horrible, ugly affairs. I know it's most likely the way the coaches teach the axel, and not the actual program, but it just hasn't impressed me compared to USFS.
Of course the dad knows his daughter the best, and if she has been bitten by the skating bug, and wants to skate all the time right now, I think that's great. Make sure it's fun, and always her idea to go for extra time. As long as the family can afford it, and everything is kept in perspective, it's a wonderful sport.
I would want to know why the 5-year-old is asking for more private lessons. The general rule of thumb is twice as much practice time as lesson time, but I see a lot of kids who spend ALL or almost all of their ice time in lessons. That's not good. A lot of them unfortunately don't get a lot of one-on-one attention in their non-skating lives, and the skating lesson fills the need to have an adult's attention focussed solely on them. They like being the center of attention and the skating is just the means to get that attention.
I've also found that kids who genuinely LOVE to skate will ask to skate without lessons. They just want to be on the ice as much as they can. But if they only want to skate when they have class or a lesson, then that's telling me that maybe it's something other than the actual skating that's the draw.
And unfortuantely there are coaches out there sho see kids as little more than dollar signs on skates and will play on parents' pride to make money. Frankly, I don't think its possible to tell if a child who's only been skating for a few weeks, no matter how quickly she's picked up the skills, is "Olympic material." Some kids are just a little more coordinated than their peers. Some kids catch on quickly at the start and then get bogged down later on. And for some kids, skating is only fun as long as it's easy; the minute they have to really work at a skill, they get bored and frustrated and don't like it any more.
I'd be wary of putting a total beginner (and Alpha IS just a beginner) in more than a grone group class and one short private lesson a week. If she wants to skate more than that then take her to puclic skating and let her play and practice. Anything more than that is overkill.
QuoteI'm also very wary of ISI, as the programs in our area are crap. The girls skating ISI have dreadful technique, and the axels they do are horrible, ugly affairs. I know it's most likely the way the coaches teach the axel, and not the actual program, but it just hasn't impressed me compared to USFS.
But at the Alpha level, there usually isn't a choice. If you are doing basic skills, you do the basic skills program the rink offers. (Just like at Basic 4, there isn't a choice to move to ISI).
Once you are in freestyle level and individual coach can decide which track to follow.
I don't know any mid-level ISI skaters who do not also test USFS. (I don't know any high level ISI skaters- but those in 8, 9, and 10 are a rare breed.)
One side note: I'm seeing a lot of parents add lessons each week, tilting that lesson:practice ratio the wrong way. Sometimes, it's because the skaters don't know what to do with themselves during practices. It's frustrating to the coach because every lesson turns into a supervised practice. Worksheets, notebooks and skill lists for practices only work if the parent/skater is willing to use them. The phrase I overheard recently was that "She just won't practice, so I have the coach give her a lesson so she knows what to do."
To me, this is a life skills lesson that's being overlooked. Everyone needs to learn how to prioritize and remember what they're supposed to be doing, then do it with little/no prodding.
My knee-jerk reaction was "well, then the skater just isn't *that* into skating. They're probably doing it for the parent." However, in the case I overheard, I know the skater loves the sport and is happy when she's on the ice, but it's a SOCIAL activity - it has to involve interacting with other skaters or the coaches. That's what's missing on the open practices for this girl. If she doesn't know anyone, or feels uncomfortable, she won't practice. So, mom hires the coach to give her a reason to be on the ice during that time.
Maybe that's why the OP's DD is asking for more lessons, as blue111moon suggested?
I've skated and taught in both programs. Any USFSA or ISI LTS can be weak or strong; it all depends on the program, the director, the coach and the skaters. The difference in their skating can be explained by the fact that most skaters who choose ISI-only are recreational who don't skate or take lessons as often as the USFSA skaters. Take any two skaters, put them in the same program. Allow one to skate 2 hours/week and the other to skate 12 hours a week. What do you think you'll get?
For the record, I know plenty of USFSA skaters with crappy axels, edges and spins.
Quote from: FigureSpins on August 26, 2011, 08:56:42 AM
I've skated and taught in both programs. Any USFSA or ISI LTS can be weak or strong; it all depends on the program, the director, the coach and the skaters.
Exactly. IMO it also depends on the coach's
perception of the skater's goal and potential. If a recreational skater shows strong desire to focus on tricks only and moving up in FS levels, basics are losing on (limited) lesson time.
Quote from: FigureSpins on August 26, 2011, 08:56:42 AM
Sometimes, it's because the skaters don't know what to do with themselves during practices... So, mom hires the coach to give her a reason to be on the ice during that time.
I don't know how lesson:practice ratio works for the really young kids. It seems they do need a "reason" to be on freestyle practice ice if there is a minimum age requirement to practice independently (age 7 at my rink IIRC). But for LTS, public skating sessions should suffice. (ETA: this is a side note, not directly addressed to FigureSpins' point)
Again, thanks for all the comments. I think, as hard as it was to read, the the idea of why she wants the private lessons may be important. We do PLENTY of things as a family outside of skating but I think she asks for the private lessons because she wants to get better, and isn't quite sure at this age how to practice on her own. When she goes to open public skating it is usually spent playing and socializing with the other girls she has befriended at the rink, being silly on the ice and doing normal 5 year old things. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that at this age the playing and socializing is just as important as learning new skills and practicing. So, maybe I am paying simply for supervised practices as opposed to lessons. Truthfully, I'm OK with that. She likes them, I can afford them without breaking the bank, her coach seemingly doesn't have a problem with it, so I don't see an issue unless I am overlooking something?
Regarding why she is in ISI as opposed to USFSA, I thought starting in ISI and then moving to USFSA was the natural progression. Again, I'm new to this as well so if that's not the case, or if there is something wrong with that approach I'd be interested in hearing why. Do some rinks support only ISI and other USFSA? My daughter has a lesson tonight so I'll ask her coach about the transition and get her opinions on it as well. For the record, I really like her coach and she's been very generous with her time and is IMHO very attentive to my daughters progress. For example, when she is there for open skate and coach isn't actively involved in another lesson, she will often spend time with my daughter helping her out and just being silly with her. So I suppose I am of mixed emotions, cynical of course that she can identify talent at such a young age, but encouraged by her what seems to be genuine interest in my daughter.
I had no idea getting into this that skating could be such drama! lol
Quote from: jjane45 on August 26, 2011, 10:11:37 AM
I don't know how lesson:practice ratio works for the really young kids. It seems they do need a "reason" to be on freestyle practice ice if there is a minimum age requirement to practice independently (age 7 at my rink IIRC). But for LTS, public skating sessions should suffice.
It doesn't matter what type of session or the skater's age. My point is that some skaters just can't figure out how to practice on their own. Last week was an older girl, who should be able to make a list (even a mental one) of what to do on the ice. There's some self-consciousness that is also involved. The older skaters stop to let the higher-level skaters have right of way and spend half the session hanging on the boards, embarrassed to work on their sit spins because they're "not as good."
At 5 or at any age, playing with friends on the ice can actually be practice. She's getting comfortable with being on the ice and trying things that she may or may not have covered in a lesson. Being confident on the ice and understanding her own balance on her blades is an important skill to learn and while she's concentrating on her friends she's not focussing on her feet, which is quite often a benefit.
QuoteMaybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that at this age the playing and socializing is just as important as learning new skills and practicing. So, maybe I am paying simply for supervised practices as opposed to lessons. Truthfully, I'm OK with that. She likes them, I can afford them without breaking the bank, her coach seemingly doesn't have a problem with it, so I don't see an issue unless I am overlooking something?
At her age and her level, playing on the ice is practice.
If you and your bank account are okay with paying for supervised practice, I do think that is okay.
(As for the ISI to USFSA progression, that depends on the rink. If it is the norm at your rink, don't worry about it. Lots of successful USFS skaters started with ISI)
ITA with those who said that at 5, playing on the ice is practice. My younger DD didn't start skating till she was 10, so she knew how to practice pretty quickly. We had a rule that she could socialize all she wanted on public sessions, but freestyle was solely for practice. Even so, there were times when she and her friends practiced together on a freestyle session, as in "can you do...?" , followed by each skater doing whatever it was. That was fine as long as there wasn't too much standing around involved. This is one way (in the future) that you can tell how much your child really loves to skate, vs how much she/he just enjoys the environment. The ones who love it also love the process of learning, i.e. the practice, and you won't see them standing around chatting too much.
just going to throw this out there into cyberspace......if the original posters child was a boy and wanted to be a baseball player and the dad was taking his kid outside everyday after kindergarten to play catch and throw in the backyard, would that be acceptable? Also, if said kid wanted to work with a coach to help his throwing or catching skills because dad couldn't throw or catch due to some other reason, would that be okay? I don't think this dad is asking how to make his 5 year old the next olympic star. He's asking if it's normal - well, my experience in skating is that NOTHING is normal! Everything is nutso and crazy regardless of the path one takes in this sport! What is it with skating that we're so eager to convince newbies that kids shouldn't have tons of privates and tons of ice time. If the family is okay with it, IMO - it's fine. Will the child burn out - maybe, probably - but how many kids switch sports later in life anyway? I don't think it's a big deal at all!
Sorry if my post is offensive but this is really my pet peeve in this sport!
It's impossible for us to tell whether the coach truly believes what she is saying or even has the experience to make that judgment. However, while it's probably not always the case, the coaches I've met seem honest and straightforward. And, since it seems like your daughter is enjoying her lessons and her skating, you both like the coach, it's not a financial strain, she's progressing well and she does other normal 5-year-old kid stuff, I would just keep watch, use your common sense, maintain perspective and don't allow yourself to be pushed into anything that doesn't seem right to you or puts a strain on your family life or financial resources (that will come later :)).
I don't know if a 5 year old beginner really needs that much lesson time (i.e. will it mean she's a much better skater 10 years down the road? Will she get to juvenile at age 8 or 9 instead of 10 or 11? Does it matter? I don't know.), but if you're willing to pay and she's having fun then there's no problem. No matter what, it doesn't hurt to take everything with a grain of salt and see how it goes. After all, even for the incredibly talented, it's still a long, long process to get to the top and a lot can happen.
Quote from: kssk8fan on August 26, 2011, 03:02:01 PM
just going to throw this out there into cyberspace......if the original posters child was a boy and wanted to be a baseball player and the dad was taking his kid outside everyday after kindergarten to play catch and throw in the backyard, would that be acceptable? Also, if said kid wanted to work with a coach to help his throwing or catching skills because dad couldn't throw or catch due to some other reason, would that be okay? I don't think this dad is asking how to make his 5 year old the next olympic star. He's asking if it's normal - well, my experience in skating is that NOTHING is normal! Everything is nutso and crazy regardless of the path one takes in this sport! What is it with skating that we're so eager to convince newbies that kids shouldn't have tons of privates and tons of ice time. If the family is okay with it, IMO - it's fine. Will the child burn out - maybe, probably - but how many kids switch sports later in life anyway? I don't think it's a big deal at all!
Sorry if my post is offensive but this is really my pet peeve in this sport!
I completely agree with you. Children should have a minimum of 60 minutes of being physically active. Who cares what activities they do to make up those 60 minutes, skate everyday if that's what the child wants to do. The important thing is for the child to get excersize now, everyday. When the child will be 8 and might find skating boring, then find a new activity to stay fit. No need to go crazy.
Also, I do use the word talent and by that I mean, the child has above average something whether it be balance, strenght, power, flexibility or endurance. I don't mean it in a bad way, or that I'm trying to get new students. I also don't only say good things to the parents about the girl, I tell them in what areas they have trouble with, not just the good stuff.
As a mom of two kids who started when they were young, I would say if she is happy now let it be.I would question someone that said she has a competive spirit, I dont know of what she based that on.I also wouldnt push lessons alot, she does need to learn to practice herself. If you give her alot now, what will you do when she is juv or higher?Its a life lesson she will need to learn.Three lessons a week is what my skaters get, who are pre juv and juv.They compete with kids who have 5 hour long lessons a week and hold their own fine.More lessons doesnt equal better skating.
Gia skates 20 hours a week, way too much. She is good, but I dont know if she will last.IMO slow and steady wins more than my.... year old has...
I wouldnt worry about ISI VS USFSA.Alot of skaters at Nationals started out in ISI.
edited typos!
20 hours a week? Holy cow! When does the child have time to do school work? I will be as supportive of my daughter current passion (I say "current" because who knows how long she will ask to skate) as I possibly can be, but certainly not at the expense of her education.
Is 20 or more hours a week the norm for very competitive skaters? WTH am i getting myself into here? lol
I would guess between 10 -18 would the norm, with the high end for Senior level skaters.I dont know if its really that much for Gia, that is what she has said on her youtube.She is only 9 and juv.My own do around 10 ish on ice, with maybe 6 hours off ice.Just like more lessons doesnt equal better skating, more ice time sometimes is counter productive.
My daughter started to skate when she was young too, but she only skated 1 group lesson/week without any practice. We did not know she supposed to practice. She started private lesson when she was 5 with 1 lesson/week + 1 hour practice. She improved quite a bit after she started to practice by herself. Now she 7 and have 3 lessons/week + 10 hours practice and no longer doing any group lesson. Our coach does not think that you can spot a talent until the kid can do double Axel. My daughter is competing at preliminary level.
Quote from: kssk8fan on August 26, 2011, 03:02:01 PM
just going to throw this out there into cyberspace......if the original posters child was a boy and wanted to be a baseball player and the dad was taking his kid outside everyday after kindergarten to play catch and throw in the backyard, would that be acceptable? Also, if said kid wanted to work with a coach to help his throwing or catching skills because dad couldn't throw or catch due to some other reason, would that be okay?
Actually, I would say, maybe, no it might not be okay - maybe yes, maybe no, it's situational. All of my kids plays baseball; they started when they were around 4 or 5 in the run around the bases and maybe hit a ball league. My older brothers were all at the top of "sport" with one a major league call up team ... so, yeah, I know baseball.
There is hanging around in the backyard and tossing the ball around with dad and having fun. Then, there are the 5 year olds that I see who are outside with dad every night, regardless of what else they might want to do, and being made to drill and drill - and then spending their play time in intensive "skills development" programs to make them better players. The kids are not having fun; they are often getting injured (tiny rotator cuffs don't take lots of stress) - but, they are getting pushed and pushed to become wonderful baseball players. You can see the same stuff in hockey ... there are 5 year olds on our rinks out here at 6 a.m. on a Saturday doing powerstroking drills for hours and hours so they can make rep teams, and who are already working with private coaches. All sports can be nuts ... not just skating ...
60 minutes of physical activity a day is not a big deal - but it shouldn't be in intense, driven, focussed training. Skate Canada has put that out there in specific direction in the skating world, and the Long Term Athlete Development model on which this is based is being adopted by a wide range of sports organizations to prevent early injury and burnout.
And oh yeah ... we had a coach who "really wanted" my kid for a variety of reasons back when lessons began. She was very very very helpful; we got lots of time, and pats, and stroking and discussions about wonderful futures and great talent and all that.
That coach is now an ex-coach. Turned out she did this as a pattern, and when parents got disillusioned, they switched to another coach - so she was always on the lookout for the next "innocent" skating parent to latch on.
Like I said, I'm cynical. In this and in every other endeavour (dance, skating, hockey, etc etc etc, art lessons, music lessons) - I see instructors who convince parents that their kid is unique, special and talented. Yeah, my kid IS unique, and thank goodness for it - but, not because of any special talent.
The best music teacher we had for our DD who is - actually - it turns out, many years later, reasonably talented at her instrument, was honest with us that she could see traits that might help her develop into a good player, but, at a young age, so much can change that there is no way that a definitive label of "prodigy" can be attached, and building up expectations at a young age meant a higher likelihood of disappointment later on. Plus, the kid may simply decide that "ick" this isn't for them ... and if you've invested tons of time, money and emotional attachment to a sport or activity, it makes it harder for the kid to be able to move on to something else, KWIM?
About ISI vs USFS - I'm just going by what I see in our region. My daughters did straight USFS, one all the way through senior moves (for synchro) so I don't have too much knowledge about the structure of ISI. How do they teach the axel in ISI? The girls doing them at the one exhibition my older daughter skated in just had a very bizarre entrance/leg position, and none of the axels were over 1 1/4 rotations, at the most. I just couldn't figure out what the heck they were trying to do, and how they thought they could get a full axel that way. I'm thinking it must have been the coaching at this small program, as it seems no one else has seen this happening in ISI. Is there a guideline online, like USFS has?
schmeck, the basics of skating remain the same regardless of ISI or USFSA......the difference is the competitiveness. As for technique - that's completely coach related and has nothing to do with USFSA or ISI. There are plenty of USFSA coaches that can't teach correct technique!
USFS breaks down the axel quite nicely in its LTS guides, I figured ISI would have something similar?
Without reading the other responses, I can tell you I am seeing red flags. Now, I am NOT saying her coach is lying to you. Your daughter may very well have some natural talent and may very well enjoy the sport. However, in my opinion, 3 private lessons a week PLUS 2 group lessons is a lot of ice time for a newbie... any newbie but at 5, she definitely doesn't need that many lessons. At this point, she likes the sport, let her enjoy the sport and if it were me, I would cut back to one private lesson a week and one group. No beginner needs that many lessons. I would find a way to politely tell the coach you want to cut back. I would bring your daughter to skate as often as she wants, but keep it fun. Let her explore the sport. At 5, who knows what she will like in a month. :) Good luck!
Quote from: SkateDad on August 25, 2011, 05:38:24 PM
WOW...thats impressive. I wonder how long she's been skating?
I think Gia has been skating since she was 3. We attended a competition last month and got to see her skate in person. She is not only an amazing skater, but she is such a sweet girl too. My daughter and her friend talked to her and she seemed like such a nice little girl. :) Anyway, I am pretty sure Gia's mom said she has been skating since she was 3.
Oh and as for 5 year olds and talent, there is a 5 yr old boy at our rink who skates very well for 5! Granted, both his parents are coaches and he has been on the ice since she was very small, but he is very coordinated and like your daughter, BEGS to skate. I did not see that it was your daughter, not the coach, who asked for extra lessons. If I had seen that before, I would have modified my answer! I would still consider dropping her lessons down to 1 group and 1 private lesson. I would take her as often and she and you want to be there and go from there! Enjoy the ride and revel in her excitement!
Quote from: SkateDad on August 25, 2011, 03:42:28 PM
Again, thank you all for the comments. Being a skating "dad" I feel like I am in the minority here! :)
Are you kidding? Skate dad's ROCK! We have one very active skate dad at our rink and plenty of other dad's who come frequently. :) I think it is great when the dad's come! My husband will take our daughter too...
It is true what you say about young kids getting their jumps and axel by 7. There is a boy at our rink now who has his axel and is now moving up to pre-pre. he has been skating a little over 2 years now. He is 7. His sisters are 12 and 14 and have been skating just as long and are also now in pre-pre. They are all good skaters but the biggest thing is that they skate A LOT. They have several lessons a week too. There is another little girl I know who has been skating since she was 3.5. She is now 8.5 and has all of her single jumps up through her lutz jump. She is working on her axel now as well. To be honest, a year ago she was still in the the higher levels of basic 1-8. Since the start of the year, she has gone from Freeskate 1 to where she is now. I would imagine by the beginning of next year(ie: January), she will be in at least, non-test. she has been progressing quickly over the last year. Part of that is her own increased interest in skating and in improving. Why the sudden change? I think maturity, increased interest to improve and more ice and lesson time. Another little girl I know is 9 1/2. She started skating 1.5 years ago at 8. In a year, she moved from basic skills to pre-preliminary. She is currently working on doubles(tho is not landing them yet). She is another one who has an intense interest in the sport and a desire to improve. She LOVES to skate. She probably skates 4-5 days a week for at least 2 hours each time she skates. I have no idea how many lessons a week she takes, but I would guess at least 2. I have been impressed by her progression! Anyway, the point is... sometimes age has nothing to do with it. The amount of time spent on the ice and the lessons CAN help progression but it doesn't guarantee it either. I know my own daughter is at a bit of a disadvantage because we cannot afford regular lessons with a jump coach many of the skaters use. We also cannot regularly afford 3 lessons a week with her primary coach. That happens about twice a month. I think this has affected her progression. She IS progressing, just not as quickly as some. Her spins are really improving but her doubles are not near where we wanted them to be at this time. Her axel is consistent and getting higher... so progression IS there... it is just slower. That's ok! We will do what we can and go from there.
To the OP... truthfully, you know your daughter. Like I said before, I would probably cut back on lessons and just let her skate on her own... BUT if you can afford it and she is happy and you are happy...go for it. You never know what may or may not happen. :)
After reading plenty of insightful responses I am going to keep her in the privates she has now. It isn't a financial strain on my family, she loves the lessons and her coach, and her coach gives me a warm and fuzzy as well. Unless something happens to make me mistrust her (coach), I'll continue on the assumption that she is being honest.
That said, I will cut the group lessons down to one/week at the end of this semester. Truth be told, I would get rid of them all together if it didn't make fiscal sense to keep them. (She gets unlimited open skating time and a discount at the pro shop for being enrolled in the skating school) but the classes themselves are terrible. I could go on forever about what i dislike about them, but no need for that negativity. I get the value of the lessons in ice time and pro shop discounts so I'll take it for what it's worth.
Thank you all for your opinions and suggestions, this is a great forum.
you might also read Xan...
http://xan-boni.blogspot.com/2011/06/dreaded-schedule.html
Quote from: SkateDad on August 29, 2011, 01:49:03 PM
That said, I will cut the group lessons down to one/week at the end of this semester. I could go on forever about what i dislike about them, but no need for that negativity.
Also check out the thread Are group lessons worthwhile (http://skatingforums.com/index.php/topic,1818.0.html). It's more of an adult skaters perspective but maybe some posts will help.
Lot of times the beginner classes are large in size and not necessarily taught by the best instructors on staff. Definitely cannot compare to the bliss of privates, but higher level classes are generally much smaller, at least at my rink. (I think skating directors should focus more at lower levels to retain potential clientele but that's lots of work I guess.)
As long as the instructors are competent and professional, I recommend sticking with group lessons also for different perspectives. Sometimes the skater may need to hear the same thing from a different person, just phrased slightly differently for it to click and sink in.
(Unlimited open skating time and discount at the pro shop sound great!)
Quote from: SkateDad on August 29, 2011, 01:49:03 PM
That said, I will cut the group lessons down to one/week at the end of this semester.
If for no other reason, group lessons are worthwhile as a way for your daughter to meet other skaters at about her level.
How long are the private lessons? The trend nowadays seems to be towards 1/2 hour lesson but back when I was a kid most lessons were 15 minutes - even the higher level skaters - then we took more a week and had more practice time.
As far as group classes go - they are a mixed bag but we have really top level coaches teaching our classes along with the Jr. coaches and high school students who are getting their first taste of teaching. The top level coaches recognize that the group classes are a good source of potential new students of course, which is why they like doing them!
Most of the rinks in my area have the "take a class and get free public sessions" and one offers a discount at the pro shop as well. Some skaters "take a class" just to get the discount!
Quote from: icedancer2 on August 29, 2011, 04:05:45 PM
How long are the private lessons? The trend nowadays seems to be towards 1/2 hour lesson but back when I was a kid most lessons were 15 minutes - even the higher level skaters - then we took more a week and had more practice time.
When I skated, 20-30 minutes was normal, however, ice time was very limited and the rinks spread out. Many pros coached at multiple rinks in a single day. I took most of my lessons in the evenings, so the commuting and time period sort of required a guaranteed number of lessons in order to attract the coaches. No one expected a coach to drive 40 minutes from her home or another rink just to teach a single 15-minute lesson, then head out after dinner and darkness. With today's gasoline prices, that really hurts the wallet.
The shorter lessons were typically focused on one discipline. Example: 15-20 minutes figures, 15-20 minutes free, 15-20 minutes dance, spread out over multiple days during the week. Higher-level skaters would take longer or multiple lessons on freestyle or dance. Only those preparing for tests would do multiple lessons on patch.
Group lessons depend on the program itself and it's financial state. Our rink just discontinued the "junior pro" lesson payment, substituting a freestyle punch because enrollment is so low. To answer the OP's question, there are two "Learn to Skate" curriculum in the US: the Ice Skating Institute (ISI) and the USFSA Basic Skating Skills (BSS) program. They're both okay for the introductory levels, assuming the coaches know how to instruct them properly. The ISI has fewer levels in their Pre-Alpha-through-Delta curriculum than Basic Skills 1-8, but the ISI levels are intentionally more challenging. They focus on recreational skating and offering challenging test levels, but skaters tend to get "stuck" on the tougher elements. The BSS is designed more as a staircase, using lower-level tests to build skills needed for the next step-up skills. As a result, skaters typically progress faster through BSS since there are no "tough elements" - things are aligned better, imo. (I've coached in both programs and was an ISI skater.
However, in most cases, the BSS program is chosen by most skating directors because it's considered a "feeder program" to bring skaters into the fold of standardized testing beyond Basic Skills and Freeskate. Part of that is bias: most skating directors were themselves USFSA skaters, so they feel it leads up the preferred path to USFSA Qualifying competitions, as opposed to the ISI's pattern of making skating fun and challenging for anyone.
At your daughter's level, it's six of one, half-dozen of the other.
ISI Curriculum: http://www.skateisi.com/site/Sub.Cfm?Content=Testing_Requirements
USFSA BSS Curriculum: http://www.usfsa.org/Programs.asp?id=47
Quote from: icedancer2 on August 29, 2011, 04:05:45 PM
How long are the private lessons? The trend nowadays seems to be towards 1/2 hour lesson but back when I was a kid most lessons were 15 minutes - even the higher level skaters - then we took more a week and had more practice time.
As far as group classes go - they are a mixed bag but we have really top level coaches teaching our classes along with the Jr. coaches and high school students who are getting their first taste of teaching. The top level coaches recognize that the group classes are a good source of potential new students of course, which is why they like doing them!
Most of the rinks in my area have the "take a class and get free public sessions" and one offers a discount at the pro shop as well. Some skaters "take a class" just to get the discount!
That is how we got sucked in,,,, 15 minute lessons twice a week.Wish someone had talked to me back then about the real costs!
Quote from: twokidsskatemom on August 29, 2011, 11:04:16 PM
That is how we got sucked in,,,, 15 minute lessons twice a week.Wish someone had talked to me back then about the real costs!
Ha! Isn't that the truth! :) It seems I keep adding in stuff as I can afford to do it! The problem is, the more your kid skates and levels up, the more it costs. Learn to skate is a bargain! Whenever people ask me how much it costs to skate, I always say it depends on what you are aiming for. If all you want to do is putter around and learn a few cool tricks, LTS is probably enough for quite awhile. If you want to compete, that is an entirely different thing. Around here, 6 weeks of LTS is 40.00. The price includes skate rental and a pass for 5 freestyles or public sessions. It is definitely easy to get sucked in and it happened slowly for us. This is a beautiful but very, very expensive sport! I swear I can hear my wallet cry each time I walk into the ice rink! LOL!!
Quote from: icedancer2 on August 29, 2011, 04:05:45 PM
How long are the private lessons?
Her lessons are for 30 minutes per lesson. Regarding the group lessons and the ability to meet new friends, I would tend to agree if the same kids were in the class each week. Unfortunately, in the group classes at her rink, not only are the instructors different each week (not what is published on the schedule) but the kids in the class are different as well, so it makes it difficult for a five year old to get super friendly with a new group each class. I can only speak for the group classes here, but my overall assessment would be that they could be much more useful if they were properly managed. I think the instructors do the best they can with what they have, but it's semi-controlled chaos during those classes at the lower levels. Probably has as much to do with the parents who are not yet sure of skating "etiquette" as it has to do with management for not properly informing the parents of what is expected from them.
What I am getting from all this is that skating for young kids is as much of a commitment on the parents end as it is on the skaters end. For a new parent like myself, if you don't actively seek the "do's and don'ts" you are highly likely to offend and behave obnoxiously (by skating standards) at the rink. I'm a pretty tolerant of it as I'm new myself, but I can imagine those parents that have been doing this dance for a number of years get fed up with a new group of "misbehaving" parents kicking the tires every 12 weeks. Am I being naive to assume that parents, along with the kids, get better over time? :)
That does not sound like a good group class situation at all. I understand your desire for privates in that situation. It's better for a 5-year old to have consistency.
At one rink I went to, the instructor changed week to week (not desirable) but at least the class stayed the same.
At my current rink, the class and the instructor stays the same for 8 weeks.
Quote from: SkateDad on August 30, 2011, 10:07:04 AM
Her lessons are for 30 minutes per lesson. Regarding the group lessons and the ability to meet new friends, I would tend to agree if the same kids were in the class each week. Unfortunately, in the group classes at her rink, not only are the instructors different each week (not what is published on the schedule) but the kids in the class are different as well, so it makes it difficult for a five year old to get super friendly with a new group each class. I can only speak for the group classes here, but my overall assessment would be that they could be much more useful if they were properly managed. I think the instructors do the best they can with what they have, but it's semi-controlled chaos during those classes at the lower levels.
Oh wow. I would opt for private lessons too! That is insane and not how group lessons should run at all. Here, the kids have the same instructor and the students remain the same. You do get the occasional sub or the occasional extra student, but everything stays pretty much the same during the entire run of the session. Coaches do change from session to session, but that is pretty normal. My daughter made some friends in learn to skate. some of those kids are in her skating club and are still her friends. Anyway, now that you have described the group lesson situation further, I would probably opt out of them all together. If you do pull her out, I would talk to whomever the director of the learn to skate program is and explain why you are pulling your child out of learn to skate.
On thought... it does sound as though your daughter started skating in the summer. If that is the case, it is possible that the summer program is less organized then the fall/winter program. I know around here, it can get a little nuts and instructors do change a little more in the summer months. However, classes typically remain the same.
Our parks and rec program is a little more chaotic than LTS. In LTS, how would kids know where they are supposed to be if they themselves are moving to a different groups each week? It doesn't make any sense. How do you do Alpha if you are not in an Alpha class every week?
I know there is sometimes settling in - when dd went from one rink to another she was signed up for a class, but they promoted her mid first lesson to the next level. It might have looked odd to someone new.
At all our rinks (she takes group classes at several) the instructor (barring illness, needing to be at a comp) is the same for all 6-8 weeks. At one, the staff changes every 8 weeks even in the highest level classes. At the other, the highest level coach teaches the highest level classes each week.
It is very important for dd's growth to take classes with girls and boy who are better/older skaters. It gives her a regular view of how much they work and that she can do what they do. When you are in a private lesson you are the best kid in that lesson. It can be hard to have that extra push without regular great competition.
skatedad.....welcome to the world of figure skating! It's a small world, but it's a great one! I hope your daughter enjoys it!
Quote from: hopskipjump on August 30, 2011, 11:32:49 AM
In LTS, how would kids know where they are supposed to be if they themselves are moving to a different groups each week?
Great question and one I had over the weekend. My daughter skated out to her alpha/beta class (or to the instructors listed on the schedule as teaching the Alpha/beta class) and about 3 minutes into the class I felt like something wasn't right. I tried to resist being the annoying parent that goes to the glass during the lesson but I couldn't help myself and had to ask (at this point about 5 minutes into the 30 minute class) "Isn't this the alpha/beta class?" to which the reply was "no, this is pre-alpha." My daughter then had to be shown where the class she was supposed to be in was being held.
I am admittedly anal about organization, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to tape simple hand made signs on the glass so kids know exactly where to go for their class. Especially given that the teachers on schedule for the designated classes are almost never the ones actually teaching it.
OK, I said I was going to avoid the negativity of why I dislike group classes and I got into it a bit anyway. There is hope though, that as isakswings stated, maybe it's because this is the summer session that things are so crazy?
Quote from: SkateDad on August 30, 2011, 02:30:18 PM
I am admittedly anal about organization, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to tape simple hand made signs on the glass so kids know exactly where to go for their class. Especially given that the teachers on schedule for the designated classes are almost never the ones actually teaching it.
OK, I said I was going to avoid the negativity of why I dislike group classes and I got into it a bit anyway. There is hope though, that as isakswings stated, maybe it's because this is the summer session that things are so crazy?
My rink has boards they pin up for the group classes with the different levels. It makes it easier for kids when they're coming back for a new session to find their classes and saves the coaches having to go around and question everyone. Perhaps you could suggest this at your rink? Possibly no one has actually thought about what it looks like from a newcomer's prospective. (Actually I'm quite amazed some people actually find skating as a sport as it quite often seems quite closed to outsiders in the way things are done. I've actually helped a new skater who moved to my rink and some of the procedures are just obtuse and unhelpful as they're designed for people moving through the system and not moving into it).
Quote from: fsk8r on August 30, 2011, 02:48:19 PM
...Actually I'm quite amazed some people actually find skating as a sport as it quite often seems quite closed to outsiders in the way things are done.
I have actually thought in just this short time I have been involved that the rink (and maybe skating in general) leaves a lot of money at the table simply from a lack of getting the word out about it. The "sport" could definitely use some PR. Seems odd to say that given how much each of us spends on this passion, but truly it is hard to get into simply from a lack of information.
I wanted to put my two cents in. My DD started skating at 9 and started with group lessons. At no time did a coach approach her soliciting services. We approached a coach because my DD wanted to compete. She asked the coach she had taken most of her LTS classes with. She is currently in FS 5 and is the only student in her LTS class and her teacher is her coach, so this works out that we get 7 "private" lessons for $100.00 skate school cost. My DD only skates maybe 3 hours a week and has moved up 3 levels since June. So I wouldn't say ice time is all that important. Her coach maintains very high standards for competing and wouldn't pass her to a level she wouldn't do well in competition. Her coach said she should "have" her axel with in 6 months, 2 years after she started skating. If your DD loves it and you can afford it than go fo it. But keep in mind that its great as long as she is having fun! when it becomes a chore to go to class or practice than its time to scale back.
Quote from: SkateDad on August 26, 2011, 04:12:29 PM
20 hours a week? Holy cow! When does the child have time to do school work? I will be as supportive of my daughter current passion (I say "current" because who knows how long she will ask to skate) as I possibly can be, but certainly not at the expense of her education.
Is 20 or more hours a week the norm for very competitive skaters? WTH am i getting myself into here? lol
My daughter is a 10 year old juvenile skater, currently working on double axel. She skates 12-15 hours a week during the school year and also does 2-3 hours a week off ice/ballet
And mine is a teenage Intermediate level, skating at most 7 hours a week plus roughly 45 mins of off-ice a day, landing 2A and some triples. At least one day a week with no skating at all. We have a spin coach, a transitions coach, a choreographer, and a base coach; they all coordinate together. 15 minute lessons are the rule, and only the base coach is daily: the others are spread out.
Coaches vary in ice time recommendations; our coach does not want her skaters training that many hours, particulary the pre-pubescent to pubescent, as she is concerned about over-training; burnout; and prefers intense, effective on-ice time to lots of ice time. Plus, she expects academic excellence, as it means that the skater has a well-balanced life; encourages outside activities; and will not let her skaters miss school for skating.
Note that this is a National level coach. It's her philosophy; it produces excellent skaters; and every coach will vary. So, don't worry about it until you get there ... you'll find a coach who fits your focus and your child, and maybe it will be one who wants 15 hours a week, maybe it won't be.
Quote from: Sk8tmum on August 31, 2011, 03:42:11 PM
At least one day a week with no skating at all.
Coaches vary in ice time recommendations; our coach does not want her skaters training that many hours, particulary the pre-pubescent to pubescent, as she is concerned about over-training; burnout; and prefers intense, effective on-ice time to lots of ice time. Plus, she expects academic excellence, as it means that the skater has a well-balanced life; encourages outside activities; and will not let her skaters miss school for skating.
Speaking as a parent, your coach sounds great! That's what I'd want for my DD if she continues in the sport.
Quote from: aussieskater on August 31, 2011, 06:29:19 PM
Speaking as a parent, your coach sounds great! That's what I'd want for my DD if she continues in the sport.
Okay, but, to get that level of intensity, the ground rules:
a) no chatting or socializing on ice AT ALL
b) continual skating without rest throughout the session - no breaks at all
c) no bathroom breaks
d) water by the side of the ice, no "leaving to get a drink"
e) if you're late: a lap of Russian Stroking for every minute you're late
f) full dynamic warmup before the start of session.
etc etc etc. The efficiency is part of why so much can get done in a smaller amount of time. Other parents prefer a more relaxed atmosphere on the ice. It's all part of finding what works for your kid.
my dd is 11 and jumps to double loop. She skates 45 mins private per week and 2.5 hours group lessons. She does 2.5 hours practice per week. She has one session per week which is more social where she chats and practices with friends. They still practice, but for that hour they choose, make up routines, play judges for each other etc. This seems to be a good balance for us as it doesn't interfere with school or any other activities. She has been skating 3 years and we have gradually built up to this. She would like to increase this a bit later this year. It can be a bit tricky to find the right balance.