Skate tongue? Leather options? Let's discuss boots while I ponder order options

[supersharp]

How exciting, grey suede sounds lovely!

How long do you wait for the new boots?  Probably awhile...so maybe think about getting a Patt99 for the new boots and by the time they are ready, you will be ready for the Patt99 blade.  It is going to be huge change after the Aspire, which is a very flat blade.  I think you will ultimately prefer the Patt99 shape, but it will feel like you are on a wobble board at first.  If you have a good skate tech, you could discuss a plan to start re-profiling your Aspire blade to have a little more shape at the front as a way to ease yourself toward the future.

Also, if you can find them, Step Blades makes a version of the Pattern 99 profile that is stainless and will have far more flow (very nice steel) and last longer than the J Wilson blades, plus it costs a little bit less.  It's hard to argue with more flow and blade life at a lower cost.  The profile really is the same, I have compared the blades and verified it.

Another thought on the stiffness--since it is a pretty simple thing to change the stiffness of the boots, why not start with one level lower than you have, which is in the more normal category, and then upgrade if you need it?  That way, the break-in won't destroy your feet and legs and won't eat up as much of your skating season.  My guess is that you will probably not need to get additional stiffening added for at least the first year, and maybe never.  Boots that are too stiff can lead to a lot of problems that are hard to recover from.  Boots that start to break down a little too soon are easily remedied, but bodies that have been damaged are not quite so easily restored.

[tstop4me]

Ugh, that is definitely a consideration since my pair are supposed to be made for size seven now, and I measured size 6 1/2 and 6 3/4 in the fitting.  My blades are 9 3/4" and reach the very ends of the soles already, so I suppose I will need shorter.

Does this mean one foot is a 6-1/2 and the other foot is 6-3/4?

Regardless, there is not a one-to-one correspondence between boot length and blade length.  The same size boot can take different blade lengths, depending on the model of the boot, even within the same manufacturer; especially manufacturers that both maintain a traditional line and offer a quasi-Edea line.  For a given size foot, the degree of heel pitch and the degree of overhang of the uppers with respect to the bottom of the outsole and the bottom of the heel can lead to different lengths measured between the front tip of the bottom of the outsole and the rear tip of the bottom of the heel.

If you want to play it safe, you should wait until you get your new boots in hand before ordering the new blades (assuming there's no inordinate delivery time for the blades).  [Manufacturer's charts are not always accurate.]

[AlbaNY]

Here are some photos...

All the swatches that I received: white pebble calf and light tan pebble calf.  The suedes are white, light grey, bamboo, fried rice, butterscotch, cameo, and pale pink.

Then I tried to show the four contenders in different light or with different backgrounds, because they just don't photograph as they appear in person (some anyway, like the white and grey suede especially.)  The grey suede appears to me in person to look more like the white does in the photos.  It photographs dark. 

Lastly, my current skates, because why not.  As you can see they a are a little roughed up.   

[AlbaNY]

It's amazing how much darker the suedes photograph!

[AlbaNY]

Supersharp, it's ten to twelve months before I get them.  A long wait!
That is very interesting stuff about the blades.  I never heard of Step Blades, but your description and approval of their version of the blade makes me want to look into that.  Stainless and nice flow?  Sounds great!
I'm hearing a lot about softer stiffness on here, so I'm reconsidering it a bit.  I can say that the suede does take the stiffness down a level from what it would be in the elk that I have now.  I really did struggle with my boots for a while.  Months, looking back.  I had shin pain and other stuff that Coach Awesome had never seen in all his years of coaching/competing, and I suppose it was the boots.  He never really asked about or looked at my skates and blades.  There is a definite Eastern European approach of "you have some skates, any skates, yes?  Go skate then."

Yes, Tstopforme, one foot is a bit longer although they were surprisingly symmetrical in all the other measurements.  Based on how the blades fit my current boots I can't be sure 9 3/4 will fit on the new pair, which is a bummer, but they might.  I can probably plan ahead and get new blades twice though if I really need to, I think.  I'm intrigued by the ones Supersharp recommended.

[Query]

Good stainless steel blades are so much easier to handle, in terms of preventing rust!

Step Ninety Nine blades are also available in two non-stainless versions, so be careful. Incidentally, they claim the carbon nanocoated blades "produces the lowest friction coefficient", but I assume they aren't stainless.

A potential problem with ordering blades from someone other than your (hopefully very good) skate tech is that if they come warped or otherwise defective, they may be harder to return. I have no idea if problems are likely with Step. Also, you might ask your skate tech if there is an extra charge to mount blades you don't order through them.

It's troubling to me that there is such a long wait to get skates made. In a year, some kid's feet would grow a lot. It might even be long enough for a lady to decide to get pregnant, which changes foot size too. And once skates start to break down, they sometimes become unusable faster than that.

While one can't see everything in a photo, the skate you showed did not appear to be broken down. It was barely creased. Remind me, what was your reason again for getting new boots? Or are you taking the year's wait into account, and assuming they will be more seriously broken down by that time, even if they aren't now?

EDIT: BTW, the last set of photos you uploaded were of zero length, and therefore cannot be viewed.

[AlbaNY]

I'm not sure why the photos didn't work.  I tried again.

I can't really find anyplace selling the Ninety Nine blades in 9 3/4, but I contacted the company.  If Coach Cheerful says to go for them I am sure the skate tech I use "locally" will mount them whether or not he orders them for me, but maybe he could order them.  No idea, but I'd rather if he could.  Then with the new boots I'd have to discuss it with the tech in NYC.

My reason for new boots is mainly that these were too narrow and gave me tailors bunions.  I recently stretched them aggressively so that they feel pretty good now, but I had a little windfall financially and wanted to get a pair that fits better due to that making it possible.     Also, my skates (only 150$ from eBay) arrived with the soles and uppers separating a bit, so I glued them, but the stretching of course has made this problem return, and I haven't found the same glue here... the one I tried recently did not adhere well despite looking like a good product for the task.  I had found some white stuff that worked great in Romania but don't remember what it was and can't get more until I go back in December.  Basically I'm worried the skates will not hold up well for many years, so I'm jumping at the chance to get the new pair with every fancy thing I want since I can. 

[Query]

Oh.!

Sure, there are things you could do - like bolt the soles through, using a very thin nut under the insole (which I myself haven't yet done), and take repeated extreme measures to stretch the little toe area, but restretching leather is a pain in the neck and gets old fast.

AFAICT, there are a bunch of different "white" glues, in completely different chemical families. I don't know what type of glue to use if you don't know what the original glue was. Some of the engineers types here might know. E.g., in kayaks, when trying to re-stick to an adhesive that is hard to re-stick to after it has set, people sometimes roughen the surfaces and use epoxy - because epoxy doesn't have to form a chemical bond with the old surfaces to stick. Instead, it can fill up the spaces inside roughened surfaces. But I have no idea whether it would work for boots. Also, epoxies can be a bit complicated and messy to use, there are a bunch of different types with different characteristics, a variety of "fillers" that modify those characteristics, and in an ideal world, you would use skin, eye and lung protection. If you can maybe it does make sense to just wait until you return to Romania, and hope the white glue there sticks to the fully set older glue of the same type. If you can, maybe you could ship some of it to where you usually are (in case it won't get through airport or other security checks).

$150 (if that was USD) was really quite cheap compared to new (custom?) boots. It's not a huge loss. Plus, it sounds like you have gotten your money's worth out of them, and learned a lot doing so. Including what you want out of your your next pair.

[supersharp]

Alba--I could see all of the photos just fine. My feet have a similar size discrepancy, which is built into my Harlick boots. Your blades will need to be sized for the shorter foot.  It is really nice to have both boots fit correctly! 
 
The wait is long, but in the end it will be worth it, and once you get your new boots set up, you can send the current boots back to be rebuilt if they need it.  It is surprisingly affordable to get the boots rebuilt and then you have backup boots for pond skating and when you eventually need to send the new boots in.  They are also much quicker on rebuilds, so it's not such a big time investment.

The suede colors are beautiful.  I chose that tan pebbled calf in the sample you show, and it's much more comfortable in the toe box than the standard, stiffer white leather on my old boots.  That's the main area where you will feel a difference, and I think your feet will be glad for it.  I still dream of suede but need to give up the dream of maintaining nice boots while performing epic choreographic slide sequences in order to go with suede, haha.

Going down a level in stiffness sounds like a really good approach.  It's hard for your body to recover from things like tailors' bunions when you overboot.  Overbooting also makes it hard to learn the subtle use of your ankles that builds strong technique.  It will definitely benefit you on jump takeoffs and landings to be able to incorporate a good range of motion in the ankle.

I have not had any issues with returning blades that have not been sharpened or used.  Just check with the vendor to make sure they will take them back or exchange them if your boots arrive and the sole length is not what you expected or if there is a defect.  I agree with Query in hoping you have a good skate tech that will evaluate the blades to make sure they are as expected.  I haven't seen any Step blades that were defective, but I have seen both boots and blades by other manufacturers that had problems that required an exchange. 

Thanks for sharing your boot-selection process with all of us, it is great to live vicariously and get to consider all the aspects of selecting boots while not having to dread breaking them in  http://skatingforums.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif

[AlbaNY]

Thanks Query, I hoped you might have a good glue/epoxy suggestion since you tinker with such stuff.  I wish I knew what I used and will have to go through my photos to see if I took a photo of the product, because otherwise that'll be a problem of going to the same hardware store and hoping to recognise it a year or more later. 
The recent try was with Loctite 0 sec interior/exterior clear Power Grab. 
I think they are okay for now, but it makes me uneasy, and I hope not to have a sole peel off like I saw happen to a girl's skate in Romania.

I agree that it was a good deal that worked out well for me to learn both skating and about what I'd like now that I am ordering a pair. 

Supersharp, that's something I love about old school boots like these.  Being able to send them out for repairs and refreshing is awesome.  Having a backup gives peace of mind too.
Thank you for all your input!  I'm glad you like the suedes too.  I am pretty excited about the grey now, but all four of those are really pretty.  I'd be happy with the tan pebble you have for sure but am so thrilled to get my grey. 
I'm glad you're enjoying the discussion too! 

Coach Cheerful said she and the "local" tech love Pattern 99s and that he might be able to get me the Ninety Nines, so I'm going to call him about it since I am probably about due for a sharpening too.  I'd greatly prefer the stainless and lower cost if he can get those for me.

[Query]

I don't feel comfortable recommending epoxies. While it is obvious you need something somewhat flexible, waterproof, and with a consistency that lets it fill empty spaces, I don't know which would do that, if any. I only have a little experience with epoxy, on a broken fiberglass whitewater kayak paddle, and it eventually broke again.

In the wood and composite kayak and canoe community, the various epoxies and fillers sold by West Systems are the most common. They have a lot of educational material, but it would be a lot to read through. It is also possible other brands of epoxy would meet your needs better. Or maybe epoxy isn't the best choice at all.

With my inexperience, if I tried to tell you what to use, and how, I might cause you to totally and permanently mess up your boots. In addition, if it broke off while you were skating, you could be injured, and I don't want to be responsible for that. If they were my boots, I might take a guess and try anyway, but I don't want to cause you to mess up yours, or risk injuring you.

I have used "shoe goo", not an epoxy, to repair or replace ordinary shoe soles - but it only works once or twice. I tried it on a skate boot heel that had broken off - but it quickly broke again. 

There are other people on this forum who have engineering level knowledge, or more experience with epoxies and other glues, who could probably do a better job of telling you what to do. Though if you don't know the composition of the glues you used before on the surfaces, that might make it harder for them to do too.

[AlbaNY]

Query,

I didn't mean to put you on the spot but more that I figured if anyone here would have a good recommendation you probably would be the one. 
I've used Shoe Goo for some things in the past but definitely did not think it would work for my skates based on my experience with it.  I'd rather use barge cement. 

The mystery stuff from the Lowes/Home Depot type big store in Bucharest happened to work so well that I am still surprised.  It filled the gaps and held perfectly until I really went for it with the boot stretchers more than a year later, and even now its just a bit on one boot that I see began to separate again.  Good stuff, whatever it was.  The dumb thing is that I suppose I could even find it here if I knew what it was to look for, but I am not sure I have a photo to go by. 
Both Coach Cheerful and Awesome seem familiar with gluing crazily messed up skates back together, so I'll be bothering them about it next. 

The next exciting thing is to ponder, discuss, and decide is about the blades and when to switch.     I may get a lesson tomorrow and hope to go over that whole idea more.  I was excited about the Step blade but am not thrilled that it seems very difficult to source them.  It worries me since I have a knack for falling in love with products (and restaurants) that quickly become unavailable.     I'd actually become curious about Skate Science blades late this summer only to find that those are gone.  I'd be sad if I like the Ninety Nine and can't replace it or get the right size when the new boots are ready, so I'm starting to lean toward the Pattern 99 depending on what the skate tech and Coach Cheerful say.  /rambling 

[Bill_S]

About stiffness - there's a story about choosing appropriate stiffness in the current issue of Skating Magazine. While some of the info has been mentioned in this thread, it's still a good read. It was written by someone with medical qualifications and who has skating experience.

Current US Figure Skating members might have a copy coming their way.

[AlbaNY]

About stiffness - there's a story about choosing appropriate stiffness in the current issue of Skating Magazine. While some of the info has been mentioned in this thread, it's still a good read. It was written by someone with medical qualifications and who has skating experience.

Current US Figure Skating members might have a copy coming their way.

Ooh, I hope I receive that!

[Loops]

About stiffness - there's a story about choosing appropriate stiffness in the current issue of Skating Magazine. While some of the info has been mentioned in this thread, it's still a good read. It was written by someone with medical qualifications and who has skating experience.

Current US Figure Skating members might have a copy coming their way.

I'd love to see this too, but am not a USFSA member.  Is there any way to eventually get access?  Do they make archived issues public? 

This is bringing back fun memories of getting my Skating Magazine back when I was a kid- there were Campbells cans slathered all throughout it!  But I loved looking in the back and test/competition results and seeing results for friends (and sometimes even myself!)

[tstop4me]

About stiffness - there's a story about choosing appropriate stiffness in the current issue of Skating Magazine. While some of the info has been mentioned in this thread, it's still a good read. It was written by someone with medical qualifications and who has skating experience.

Current US Figure Skating members might have a copy coming their way.

I'll try to track down a copy, since I plan to order new boots within the next several months.  Which month is the "current" issue that you are referring to?  I ask, because for some magazines I subscribe to, I get the issue about a month before the date on the cover (i.e., I get the Nov issue in Oct).  Actually, could you provide the full citation (author, title, issue, page numbers)?  My local library can get copies of certain (not all) articles on request.  If none of my skating friends has a copy, I'll try the library.

[AlbaNY]

I too hope there is another source, because I only very occasionally receive anything from USFS.  Last I received was the summer Learn to Skate USA the Magazine, but that isn't the one with the article for sure.  I'm not sure I get Skating Magazine. 

According to the info inside the LTS one they publish four times a year and we can subscribe for 16$ which I assume is similar for the other publication.  It would be too late to subscribe and get the latest issue, and I suppose that I don't get it after all or would have had it by now.  Drat. 
Good idea about the library.

[Bill_S]

The story is "Skate Talk with Patti - Revisiting boot support levels: What's enough, what is too much?" by Patti Larkin.

According to the published bio, she's a board-certified pedorthist and retired board-certified orthotist. She has spent 21 years in the orthotics field fitting custom orthopedic braces and foot orthotics. She is a former competitive skater, coach, and judge. Her business is Houston Skate & Sports Orthotics Center.

This ran in Skating, Vol. 99 No 8, October 2022. Pictured on the cover is Terry Gannon with other announcers, with a featured story about Gannon on the inside.

(It makes me long for the Terry Gannon, Dick Button, and Peggy Fleming days!)

[tstop4me]

Thanks, Bill.  I'll ask some of the skaters at my rink whether they have a copy.

[supersharp]

Our club orders a lot of skates from Patti's shop and she has been a great resource for figuring out what boot style is a good shape for different feet.

[Query]

Skating magazine archive

https://usfsa.xmlmanager.qg.com/

Unfortunately, it stops after 2021. Maybe they will add the current editions next year.

It had a lot of interesting info, including John Harmata's "Mr. Edge" column from a skate tech's perspective. A lot of info about blades and boots.

But I haven't looked at it in a while.

[tstop4me]

I too hope there is another source, because I only very occasionally receive anything from USFS.  Last I received was the summer Learn to Skate USA the Magazine, but that isn't the one with the article for sure.  I'm not sure I get Skating Magazine. 

According to the info inside the LTS one they publish four times a year and we can subscribe for 16$ which I assume is similar for the other publication.  It would be too late to subscribe and get the latest issue, and I suppose that I don't get it after all or would have had it by now.  Drat. 
Good idea about the library.

Start by asking your coaches.  I just texted my coach.  She has a copy, and will bring it to our next lesson.

[AlbaNY]

I dug around today too and found the archives all excited until I discovered, like Query, that the archives don't include 2022.

Thanks Query, I'll be able to read the article after all.  Aside from that I'm going to subscribe, because I obviously can't get enough geeking out about skating stuff.   

[Nate]

Those two are the only types that I've skated in for any length of time, and I'd agree that the soft foam (looking like expanded bubbles) worked better for me. I wonder what the fabric-covered padding in some newer Riedell skates would be like long-term?

To the OP - for grins, check out these Riedell leather customization options...

https://www.ice.riedellskates.com/custom-skates

The Fabric covering on my Risports lasts forever.  Or, at least until I need to replace the boots.  I didn't like foam.  The tongue is way too soft and the foam starts to peel off and whatnot.  Makes me feel like I have to tie the skate really tight, because I'm getting no support from the tongue.  That does depend on the design of the tongue, though.


I had SP Teris with foam and when I ordered customs I opted for the covered tongue for that reason.


I did feel like the foam had a lot more friction to it, so it may move or torque less while skating for people who tend to struggle with that.  Tongue Hooks never really seem to work for me.  The boot always loosens a bit up there, so the tongue would move anyways.

[AlbaNY]

Nate, I'm really glad I opted for the lined foam tongue.  As for hooks, my current pair has them, and I never feel any problems with the tongue placement or moving, so I am getting a hook again.  The pair of (other brand Riedell?  Risport?) skates on display that had the leather lining including the tongue.  It was sooooo plush and nice.  I look forward to that.

Since I'm posting...
At my lesson yesterday I talked a bit with Coach Cheerful about the skates and blades.  Before that her other adult student mentioned that Coach Cheerful didn't like the idea of black at all.  Hah.  Neither she or Coach Awesome answered about the colour part of my questions at all, and I suspected they both didn't want to say that they hate the idea of black.  Anyway, Other Adult loved the grey swatch too.  It looks much more pale in the bright rink lights!  I meant to take a photo but have to do it another time to see if it still looks so much darker or not.
Coach Cheerful also really liked the grey (and the white suede heel stay detail.) 

More importantly she was satisfied with the bit of reduction in stiffness that suede will cause, and we are settled on those choices now.  She also is happy for me to switch to Pattern 99s right away and insisted I'll be just fine (although I am a little nervous and hate change.)