Rusty blades

[Bill_S]

One of the local skaters gave me a pair of skates to sharpen. Storage of the skates during the COVID shutdown last year caused the blades to rust. When she asked me to sharpen them, I didn't realize how rusty they were until I got them home from the rink. The hollow was still pretty bad, even though she'd been on the ice a few times this year. A sharpening would easily remove that rust.

However, there was unsightly rust along the chrome relief too. [click to enlarge photos]



I did some testing a few years back on ways to remove light rust, and found that a wetted q-tip rolled in the kitchen scrub called Bar Keepers Friend made a powerful rust remover. It contains oxalic acid plus a mild feldspar abrasive that works well when the surface is scrubbed with the slurry. After a few minutes of rubbing wet q-tips rolled in Bar Keepers Friend along the blade edges, I had them looking much better.



After doing this, I treated the sides of the blades with a wipe down of Quick-Glo chrome cleaner. It contains a wax to protect the surface plus a mild polishing compound to remove small imperfections. Then I went to work sharpening the blades.

She'll be happy tonight when I deliver the skates to her.

[tstop4me]

That's above and beyond what most techs in pro shops would do.  I hope she appreciates all the extra effort.  I'm always amazed by the number of advanced skaters (including coaches) who pay big bucks for pricey blades (such as the P99s you show) ... and don't know how to take care of them properly.

[dlbritton]

I am amazed at how quickly blades rust. After I skated in my last competition I stayed to watch 2 more groups (there was a 17 Sr man that had 2 quads and a triple axel so I wanted to see that from close up). It was no longer than 30 minutes and when I took my skates off to dry them the hollow was already rusty. The sides weren't rusty just the hollow. I am sure there was no rust prior to skating because I had looked at my blades carefully before I put my skates on.

Aside: the Senior skater was a 17 year old from the DC suburbs. He had won the French Jr GP in August. He landed a quad salchow with a GOE of 3.8, a quad toe loop with a 2.18 GOE and his triple axel was something like 1.8 GOE. It was pretty amazing to see that level of skating from 20-30 feet away. Since this was a non-qualifying event I assume he wanted to get out in front of judges to get scores and to be in an actual competition setting rather than a training setting.

[Bill_S]

They rust quickly in the right conditions!

I would have loved watching the skater you saw doing quads. Heck, I watch even when some of the kids are doing doubles!

[Query]

And now the skater will think she doesn't have to worry about rust, because her skate tech (you) removes the rust when the skates are sharpened.

[Bill_S]

Heh! - the possibility of that crossed my mind.

[Kaitsu]

Hello Bill,

Excellent thread, like always. Could you help specifying more detail level which Bar Keepers Friend product you was using? They seems to have quite many products.

https://www.barkeepersfriend.com/what-to-clean/in-the-kitchen/

[supersharp]

Great post, thanks!  I'm almost looking forward to the next rusty blades so I can try this.

[Bill_S]

Kaitsu - here is a photo of Bar Keepers Friend that won my informal light-rust removal test a few years back. I think that new wrapper artwork may call it "Cleanser" today.



Edit: I did see this link online, and is called their Cleanser now.

https://www.barkeepersfriend.com/products/cleanser/

[tstop4me]

She'll be happy tonight when I deliver the skates to her.

So, Bill, how did the story end?  Was the skater appreciative of your extra touches?  Did you advise her on proper care and storage, rather than expecting this scenario to become routine?

[Bill_S]

I haven't seen her or talked to her. I left the skates at the rink's front counter for her to pick up. She's in infrequent skater, and she still may not have retrieved her skates.

[tstop4me]

I haven't seen her or talked to her. I left the skates at the rink's front counter for her to pick up. She's in infrequent skater, and she still may not have retrieved her skates.

Let's just hope the blades don't get rusty before she picks them up.  At my home rink, they finally replaced the roof a couple of years ago.  Before then, every time we had a heavy rain, water would drip over the front lobby ... particularly over the front counter.

[Bill_S]

They shouldn't. I wipe down freshly sharpened blades with a light coat of oil.

[Query]

I wipe down freshly sharpened blades with a light coat of oil.

Wow. A real full service skate tech!

I haven't heard any other skate tech say they do that.

When I had non-stainless blades, I carried a dry cloth (to wipe the blades dry), and an oil cloth, in my (mesh) skate bag.

I don't need to be as careful with stainless steel blades, but I still at least wipe them dry, and if I'm not going to use them for a few days, I do use oil. I miss the shape of my old MK Dance blades, but I don't miss having to take such care. y

When the rink I worked at ordered new (Reidell brand, I think) boots, the blades came coated in grease, which actually worked for several days.

[supersharp]

Is it rust season?  Over the last week, I have been given four pair of blades with varying amounts of rust on them. I've had excellent results with the Bar Keeper's Friend. It has the added advantage of smoothing the chrome relief area, leaving less surface texture to trap water to encourage future rust. 

I polish the entire chrome relief band on both sides and check to be sure they are consistently smooth on both sides and both blades.  I'm surprised how rough the chrome relief is on some blades—having experimented with smoothing it on my own skates and on those of other adult skaters, I can verify that you can feel the increased flow when they have been polished.

[Bill_S]

Maybe skate techs should add this service to their list, and charge accordingly. 

I was mostly concerned about the appearance of the blade during experimentation, but its good to hear that it can increase flow. It makes sense.

[tstop4me]

Is it rust season?  Over the last week, I have been given four pair of blades with varying amounts of rust on them.

That's reasonable.  Skaters who don't skate year round, and only during fall/winter, are now taking their skates out of storage.  And many didn't take the precaution of oiling the blades prior to storage.

[supersharp]

That is true in one case.  The others are all "I forgot that hard guards were only for walking" mistakes.

I always point out that the hard guards will need to be replaced if the embedded rust and grit can't be removed and I'm astonished at the level of denial. "But I love my guards" or "my mom isn't going to want to buy new ones".  I'm sure she isn't going to be happy that you made this mistake, but I'm also sure she understands that she would rather spend a small amount on guards rather than continue to damage the expensive blades. 

There have been a few cases where there was zero hope for the guards.  In one case, I was able to replace the rusty blades with some lightly-used blades, which had the bonus of getting the skater on a better blade.  I disposed of the guards as part of the upgrade.  Another case was when a coach acquired some "lightly used" blades that were shipped to her in the hard guards. I wish I had known about the Bar Keeper's Friend at that time. She saved a few hundred dollars compared to new blades, but it was a huge amount of work for me.  I should have charged her $200 for the rust removal, just to make a point, haha.  I told her that next time, I would charge for it.  Later she asked "oh, can I get back those guards that came with these?".  The guards were a mess, even the screws were rusty.  They had gone straight into the bin without a moment's hesitation.  No, sorry, they were beyond recovery. "Really?" She says?  My response is that if you want me to take care of your skates, I will do exactly that, and part of taking care of the skates is protecting them from evil rusty hard guards.  She laughed and said "wow, you're like the skate mom, take no prisoners!".  Correct!  Hahaha.  If I have to, I will pull out my parenting skills and use them.  After surviving the fiery furnace of raising two children, I am well-equipped to shut down whatever argument you can come up with...

[Query]

And many didn't take the precaution of oiling the blades prior to storage.

Because they don't know they should. Should blades should come with appropriate instructions?

That surface roughness slows down blades makes some sense - it's widely held true on boats and ships.

[FigureSpins]

I always point out that the hard guards will need to be replaced if the embedded rust and grit can't be removed and I'm astonished at the level of denial. "But I love my guards" or "my mom isn't going to want to buy new ones".  I'm sure she isn't going to be happy that you made this mistake, but I'm also sure she understands that she would rather spend a small amount on guards rather than continue to damage the expensive blades.

I'm totally stealing this position statement.  Never thought about making it all about the guards, although I do tell the kids with Rockerz and Edea eGuards that they're expensive to replace and difficult to clean.

One of my skating families uses a paper towel to wipe the blades before putting on the guards.  It takes a little longer, but keeps their gloves and guards clean.

[supersharp]

Glad to have an ally in the fight against evil rusty hard guards!

[ChristyRN]

I was off ice for roughly a year, back on for four months, then back off for five. I never oiled my blades and they didn't rust. I generally triple dry, go change clothes, then double dry before putting them in soakers. They live there until the next time I skate. I only use Rockerz at the rink, never store blades in them. I think I only saw rust back when I first started skating before I learned how to take care of blades.

[tstop4me]

I was off ice for roughly a year, back on for four months, then back off for five. I never oiled my blades and they didn't rust. I generally triple dry, go change clothes, then double dry before putting them in soakers. They live there until the next time I skate. I only use Rockerz at the rink, never store blades in them. I think I only saw rust back when I first started skating before I learned how to take care of blades.

Yeah, that varies a lot with the composition of the steel and with the room environment.  I had my daughter's skates (no oil) stashed in a bedroom closet for 20+ yrs; no visible rust.  I was working on a pair of skates in my basement and left them there.  I usually run a dehumidifier down there.  But it croaked and the humidity went up to ~80%.  Visible rust within two days or less (didn't know exactly when the dehumidifier croaked).

[Kaitsu]

I have made some instructional video for the local skaters so that they would take care of their skate guards too. I have also tried to explain them that they should always keep guards until they step in to ice and before they step out from the ice. This even there would be rubber mats on the floors. There is always sand and other dust on the rubber mats. Especially when blades are cold and wet, they "glue" all the dust from the floors and then it is melting in to guards. When you walk with the guards, the dirt will sink in to the plastic and that is hard to remove then. So its not only rust which will cause more friction in to the blades. Listen the sound when I "paint" the blade with marking pen. https://youtu.be/6lSZeOg_3Tc

Subtitles are not in English, but if someone helps me, we can edit also English version either with subtitles or audio track.

Has anyone else seen corroded on blades which has areas which looks like a worm tunnels? Blades are not rusty, but there are clearly visible "worm tunnels" on those areas where you typically see traces from the guards. I am not sure if that is some kind of chemical reaction or why such appears. It takes 2-3 grinding passes before they disappears so they are pretty deep.

[Query]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by a "worm tunnel", but it is well known that rust often forms in scratches, and on rough surfaces. It's one of the reasons that people say that when you get a surface scratch on a car, you should sand it down to bare metal, apply a primer to the area, then paint, and then only add the usual clear coat, rather than just re-applying more clear coat alone. Obviously the sand/primer/paint/clear coat routine doesn't apply to skates, but it might be another possible reason to justify trying to maintain the very smooth finish you work so hard af, even to the sides of the blade.

I could speculate that there is simply more surface area in such areas to react with oxygen, and/or that the electrical-chemical forces are larger (just like sharp objects attract lightning, because electrical charges can be shown to tend to move towards sharp points and towards high and low points - something explained in 1st year college physics), and/or that for some reason valence electrons are more free to react when there are no atoms to share electrons with in more than one direction, but I really don't know. I presume the matter has been studied in some detail by appropriate experts.

In any event, if you did form a scratch, it is completely reasonable that moisture and oxygen would sit in the scratch for longer without evaporating than on the outer surface, and that corrosion could develop around there.

A lot of rink guards and coaches are constantly going on and coming off the ice, and have to walk for some distance before they can adequately care for the blades, and don't have time to do a thorough job of drying the blades first. When I played rink guard/rental desk person I personally did use hard guards going back and forth between the two, because soakers wore out too fast, but I used paper towels (applied twice) when I could, and I used stainless steel blades. Plus, once I take off my skates, I don't use guards at all, but let them air dry after drying them with paper towels, and sometimes oiling. Of course that won't work for someone who puts their skates in a bag in the middle of things that might abrade it - they may need soakers to avoid abrasion.

I recently bought a (used) hockey bag. Part of the outside skin is nothing but a rugged mesh. Way better, IMO than the expensive figure skating bags that look like suitcases, but have no ventilation. (It is, however, larger than is needed for my figure skating stuff.) Many figure skaters would hate the idea of buying hockey related gear, but some of it is good quality, and is much more durable than cheap supermarket bags.