Skate Fit Advice

[supersharp]

So sorry to hear about your boot problems! 

I was able to be fitted for Harlicks without going to California.  They have a pretty good sheet for cueing you about where to measure, so if you have a dealer to work with, it should be fine. Since then, I've measured several other local skaters for Harlicks and so far, all of us are very happy with our boots.  I'm on my third pair (I usually get about 5 years out of a pair and they are still usable as teaching skates or pond skates at that point) and expect to stick with them for as long as I am skating. Each time I make a few subtle changes that improve the fit and performance, which is great.

The custom insoles/foot beds are expensive, but for me they are worth every penny at twice the price. My foot sits so much more solidly on the sole of the boot than in my previous Jackson's and Riedells. Without the custom insole, my foot never felt laterally stable (in spite of using Superfeet insoles in the previous skates) and now I stand on a surface with a perfectly matched contour. 

You may fit in the Harlick X-Line, which has the narrower heel/wider forefoot, or maybe you need something more custom than that.  There are so many variables—arch height, instep height, foot rigidity, foot volume, calf muscle attachment point and bulk...heel and ball width are just the starting point of a good fit. 

Comments about boots...a little rambling but possibly useful?
My understanding is that Risport has a similar shape to the X-Line, so a few of our local skaters have tried them and seem reasonably happy.

My experience with Riedell is they were built like canoes, long and slim. Too wide in the heel and a little pinchy at the toes for me.  Jacksons were just too wide overall, but that was the older last from 2004.  The newer models seem narrower, but skaters with wider feet can order the wider size so we have a lot of skaters in various Jackson boots in a wide. 

I agree that the new Fusion heels seem higher than the old LCL heels.  The LCL soles are an ongoing maintenance project (part of my mission as the skate tech is to keep the skates in usable condition as long as possible so we can pass them down to another user—saves extra expense for families and keeps more kids out of junky skates that are torture devices).  I don't understand why they would use such a water-absorbent material on a skate sole.  At first I was kind of glad to see the low-maintenance PVC soles appear, but they are finicky for mounting [easy to crack the sole if the pilot hole is a tiny bit small, and then the next size of drill bit strips out too easily] and the finish rubs off on the leatherette part of the boot and is very difficult to remove.  I have observed that the heels look higher, but haven't seen the pitching forward problem, but maybe the skaters in question were just able to adapt.  I got new blades in January that have a slightly lower rear stanchion and have found that they work better for me than what I was on previously, so I have experienced how much difference a small change in ramp angle can make. I was just lucky that it was for the better.

Good luck with your boot quest, it's a daunting but noble mission. Worth the effort.

[Query]

To the original poster: It is so unfortunate you still aren't happy with your boots.

I was able to be fitted for Harlicks without going to California.  They have a pretty good sheet for cueing you about where to measure, so if you have a dealer to work with, it should be fine. Since then, I've measured several other local skaters for Harlicks and so far, all of us are very happy with our boots.

It is great that you have done the measurements successfully! I wish all fitters were consistently successful, with all brands of boot. Are you a professional fitter, or do you just do it for your club or students? A shame that your indicated location (Juneau, Alaska) is a little too far from the original poster's indicated location (Tidewater VA) to be an easy drive.

My theory is that a boot maker is more likely to be helpful in the event the boots turn out bad if the boot maker themselves, or one of their factory reps, does the fitting. Dealers are independent, so I think some boot makers don't feel as strong a commitment to help in that event. So, if I were buying boots today, that would be my personal choice. I would also personally choose full custom, since I have had so many fit problems myself. But of course that is inconvenient and expensive.

I agree that the new Fusion heels seem higher than the old LCL heels.  The LCL soles are an ongoing maintenance project (part of my mission as the skate tech is to keep the skates in usable condition as long as possible so we can pass them down to another user—saves extra expense for families and keeps more kids out of junky skates that are torture devices).  I don't understand why they would use such a water-absorbent material on a skate sole.

Jackson's web page says

LCL Leather Cork composite sole deliver improved stability and superior shock absorption.

So maybe it has those advantages?? An engineer might know better, but I think material choice is often a compromise between desired properties.

If I had an LCL sole, I would think it worthwhile to waterproof the outside using a sealant, like Silicone (when it is dry, of course, not while it is wet from use). (I have only personally used Sno-Seal, which is basically a wax, but perhaps it lasts less long than silicone...)

[supersharp]

To the original poster: It is so unfortunate you still aren't happy with your boots.

It is great that you have done the measurements successfully! I wish all fitters were consistently successful, with all brands of boot. Are you a professional fitter, or do you just do it for your club or students? A shame that your indicated location (Juneau, Alaska) is a little too far from the original poster's indicated location (Tidewater VA) to be an easy drive.

My theory is that a boot maker is more likely to be helpful in the event the boots turn out bad if the boot maker themselves, or one of their factory reps, does the fitting. Dealers are independent, so I think some boot makers don't feel as strong a commitment to help in that event. So, if I were buying boots today, that would be my personal choice. I would also personally choose full custom, since I have had so many fit problems myself. But of course that is inconvenient and expensive.

Jackson's web page says
So maybe it has those advantages?? An engineer might know better, but I think material choice is often a compromise between desired properties.

If I had an LCL sole, I would think it worthwhile to waterproof the outside using a sealant, like Silicone (when it is dry, of course, not while it is wet from use). (I have only personally used Sno-Seal, which is basically a wax, but perhaps it lasts less long than silicone...)

I am not a professional bootfitter, but Harlick did offer to set me up as the local fitter for them because I sent them everything they asked for plus more, and photos of everything.  I was a ski instructor for 17 years, and ski boots need to fit to perform, so I have a lot of experience with assessing fit and customizing to improve performance.  I also toured their shop about 10 years ago and have had some great discussions with Phil and Jason about fixing boots over the years.  I hope there's someone closer than me that can help!

As far as the Jackson LCL soles go...I also thought about silicone, but it turns out that it peels off the soles pretty quickly.  Snoseal works, but it's fussy to be trying to treat the sides of the soles when the underside has that paint on it   particularly because you need to heat the sole to apply the Snoseal. Some of the newer boots turn out to be vinyl instead of leather, so I'm a little concerned about overheating the boot while heating the sole. So far, the best product I have found is a product called "Obernauf's Leather Oil" that comes in a bottle with a swab applicator.  I usually can manage to put 3 or 4 coats of the oil on while I have the skates in my possession for sharpening.  It soaks in and disappears from the surface after awhile, but I see less bloating of the edge of the sole where lunges drag across the ice now that I'm using it.  For mounting holes, I use some silicone, which is held in place by the sole plates.

The Obernauf's is great on any oil-coated leather and doesn't darken it as much as the Snoseal.  It looks very wet at first, but after a day it soaks deeper into the leather and the surface is a nice oiled-but-not-waxed color.  No heating required, although of course the oil soaks in faster if the leather is warm.