Does a high heel necessarily mean a high arched footbed?

[MCsAngel2]

At first I thought this might be a stupid question, now I'm not sure. I'm analyzing what features I would want in a custom boot. I have flat feet, so they gotta have a low or flat arch. Right now I make do with black superfeet in my Jackson dance boots (with supposedly a quite high heel). But there do seem to be some advantages in a higher heel. Helps with knee bend, and is helpful in jumps (not that I'm doing any yet).

If only I could figure out what causes the discomfort I still have. It's not a clear "they're too narrow" pain that causes cramping in the arch - that happened to me once when I tied them way too tight. It's more of a 'hurts all over' that goes away if I take my weight off the foot, don't have to unlace them.

Riedells have lower heels, that's what I skated in back in the day and never had a bit of pain. I was a teenager, though. I'm conflicted because I really like the construction of the Jacksons other than my pain! High instep, high toebox, wide toebox - not a fan of my extra wide tongue, but that would be done differently in a custom.

[tstop4me]

 "Does a high heel necessarily mean a high arched footbed?"  Not necessarily.  I currently skate with a men's Jackson Elite Suede boot (late 2014 vintage leather; last leather model before Jackson switched to their current lightweight, synthetic line).  The heel height and heel pitch are substantially greater than on my previous boots; but the fixed insole is relatively flat, and the removable footbed that came with it was also relatively flat (Jackson has a more recent model removable footbed, but I haven't tried it out).

My previous boots were ~2000 vintage Riedell Royals.  Substantially lower heel height and heel pitch than on my Jacksons.  But the Riedell Royals had built-up arch supports on the fixed insoles.  The removable footbeds that came with them were essentially just leather liners with foam pads on the arch regions.

ETA:  If you go custom, check on availability of custom heel height for the boots you are considering.  A friend of mine is an ice dancer.  When she ordered custom Harlicks, heel height was one of the custom options.

[MCsAngel2]

ETA:  If you go custom, check on availability of custom heel height for the boots you are considering.  A friend of mine is an ice dancer.  When she ordered custom Harlicks, heel height was one of the custom options.

Yes, the thing I'm trying to figure out is if I specifically need to get a lower heel, and if that will solve my problem. I don't think asking for a flatter footbed is a thing, asking for a high heel but a flatter footbed is probably definitely not a thing.

[MCsAngel2]

You know, I've been reading old threads, and I found one from 2012 by sampaguita where she had a similar issue with her Jacksons...they just hurt her feet somehow when her old Riedells didn't, and she couldn't figure out why. She had medium arches, I have low. We seem to have different kinds of feet. But now I'm wondering if my problem is my arch just doesn't match up to the arch in Jacksons, and has nothing to do with how flat my feet are.

If this is the case, then probably even customs from Jackson wouldn't help, right?

[tstop4me]

You know, I've been reading old threads, and I found one from 2012 by sampaguita where she had a similar issue with her Jacksons...they just hurt her feet somehow when her old Riedells didn't, and she couldn't figure out why. She had medium arches, I have low. We seem to have different kinds of feet. But now I'm wondering if my problem is my arch just doesn't match up to the arch in Jacksons, and has nothing to do with how flat my feet are.

If this is the case, then probably even customs from Jackson wouldn't help, right?

The problem is after all this time you don't know whether you need custom orthotics (either DIY or prescription).  If you do, a custom boot by itself won't fix things.  Since you're willing to spend $$$ on custom boots, you really should be checked out first by a sports podiatrist with experience with figure skates.

In my case, the Jackson fixed insoles and removable footbeds were just too flat; insufficient support for my fallen arches.  I tinkered around with DIY footbeds and eventually came up with a fix (along with modified blade mounts).  The rounded toebox/narrower heel combo of the Jackson is otherwise a better fit for me than my previous Riedell.   So it's important to find out the root cause of your problem.

With respect to my ice-dancer friend, her coach (who's also my coach) suspected she needed higher heels.  Our coach knew that I like to tinker with boots and blades, so she asked me whether I could modify the ice dancer's heel heights.  I did with sets of spacers.  We tried out several different heights and found the optimum height.  Worked like a charm.  So the ice dancer then knew what was needed when she ordered customs for her next pair.

[MCsAngel2]

Well, I'm already using DIY orthotics. Superfeet plus homemade wedging. But that's to solve my main issue with pronation. My secondary issue is trying to figure out what is making my feet hurt in the boots after a few minutes. The arch being too high in the boot actually makes sense.

I was going to make a separate thread, but I guess I'll just put it here. I just spent three hours this afternoon/evening chatting on and off with a Jackson rep on Facebook about customs and my issues. I learned a few disappointing things and a few positive things.

- There is no such thing as getting fitted in person at the Jackson factory. It has to be with your local dealer or an appointment when Jackson is at an event. The 3D scanning is ONLY available at an event, the individual dealers don't have the technology unless I can convince my tech to set up a scanner day locally with Jackson. Big drawback IMO.

- There's no other technology used for customs; just measuring and tracing.

- They don't offer any modifications for pronation. They are continuing to look at what they might do in the future, but for now I would have to add something after the fact. (This is okay, I suppose, because needs may change over time).

- They still have the old AW last available as a custom option, it was replaced a few years ago by the elite last. The AW last has more room for low flat arches; I will attach the image I was sent at the bottom of this post.

- The AW last can be used with an LCL sole/heel if I want a lower heel, isn't available with the fusion sole (which I have now and is no maintenance) and limited capability with the LCF sole/heel. The LCL is heavier.

- You can see the AW last is roomier in the heel, not sure about the capability of a split width ball/heel like the elite last, or more than one size diff. My right heel needs to be another size smaller.

- Can request more room be added in the arch.

- The surprising thing is that individual changes are available on an a la carte basis all the way up to full custom pricing. I wouldn't necessarily have to put down $1000+ for new Jacksons. The model boot I use starts at $340. My current skates had 2 changes (width and tongue) and cost me $450. I'm estimating maybe four or five more changes, which means I could get new semi customs for say $750, which is considerably less than the $1200 plus airfare plus potential hotel I would need to pay for full customs and flying elsewhere to get properly fitted for them. It is very hard to not be considering that now.

Elite on the left, AW on the right:

[tstop4me]

Well, I'm already using DIY orthotics. Superfeet plus homemade wedging. But that's to solve my main issue with pronation. My secondary issue is trying to figure out what is making my feet hurt in the boots after a few minutes. The arch being too high in the boot actually makes sense.

--------

- The surprising thing is that individual changes are available on an a la carte basis all the way up to full custom pricing. I wouldn't necessarily have to put down $1000+ for new Jacksons. The model boot I use starts at $340. My current skates had 2 changes (width and tongue) and cost me $450. I'm estimating maybe four or five more changes, which means I could get new semi customs for say $750, which is considerably less than the $1200 plus airfare plus potential hotel I would need to pay for full customs and flying elsewhere to get properly fitted for them. It is very hard to not be considering that now.

If you've fixed your pronation, but are skating in pain, you don't have an overall fix.  Hypothetically, your DIY orthotics could be the cause of the pain.  But if you truly believe that the root cause is that your Jackson has too high an arch, then the logical approach would be to try out a boot with a lower arch to see if the pain goes away; might be worth trying a lower end boot just to see if it works before splurging on a higher end boot.

The problem with the route you're headed is that no one person (other than you) is taking responsibility for a successful outcome.  Jackson won't fit you directly even at their factory (that's a surprise to me); your skate tech hasn't been able to resolve your issues so far, and doesn't have access to the Jackson scanner (another surprise to me); so you're left guessing what custom changes to specify, without an existence proof (via trial modifications) that they're the right ones.  Your semi-customs won't be a good bargain if you're still skating in pain.

I believe someone posted about Riedell's procedure for customs.   I believe one of the head guys did the fitting at the factory and took responsibility for the whole process.  Definitely something to look into.  Money is definitely an issue; but so are time, pain, and frustration.

[MCsAngel2]

If you've fixed your pronation, but are skating in pain, you don't have an overall fix.  Hypothetically, your DIY orthotics could be the cause of the pain.  But if you truly believe that the root cause is that your Jackson has too high an arch, then the logical approach would be to try out a boot with a lower arch to see if the pain goes away; might be worth trying a lower end boot just to see if it works before splurging on a higher end boot.

The problem with the route you're headed is that no one person (other than you) is taking responsibility for a successful outcome.  Jackson won't fit you directly even at their factory (that's a surprise to me); your skate tech hasn't been able to resolve your issues so far, and doesn't have access to the Jackson scanner (another surprise to me); so you're left guessing what custom changes to specify, without an existence proof (via trial modifications) that they're the right ones.  Your semi-customs won't be a good bargain if you're still skating in pain.

I believe someone posted about Riedell's procedure for customs.   I believe one of the head guys did the fitting at the factory and took responsibility for the whole process.  Definitely something to look into.

The foot discomfort is something I've had since the beginning, at first I thought it was just new boot pain. The DIY orthotics I'm using now I didn't start using until I'd had the skates about 3 months. It hasn't totally cured my pronation but according my videos it has helped, and they did make my knees stop hurting from the first time I started using them. There hasn't been any change in the level of foot discomfort or the short time it takes to appear. So even though the superfeet +wedging take up a bit more volume in my boots, the pain is exactly the same as it was in the beginning (well, maybe a *little* better) with the lower volume Jackson insoles.

Obviously it would make sense to try out a flatter arched boot first, but I don't know how to accomplish that. I'm such a wide width, only available in a semi custom order, that I can't get a cheaper Jackson if I wanted (my boot is the lowest level boot that can be ordered in my size). I would have to assume the same is true of other brands. So I'd have to take a leap of faith that another brand (say Riedell) would be a better match for me. I'd still have to get full customs to do that and spend the $2000 including traveling to do that. I don't know any other way to identify exactly what the issue is other than just trying something new. So what would you do? Full on customs at a different boot maker, or another shot at Jackson at less than half the price? Neither is more guaranteed than the other.

On the topic of custom orthotics and custom skates.....does anyone know which comes first? I'm guessing get the orthotics first, then send them to the boot maker so they can make sure they fit in new boots?

[tstop4me]

Obviously it would make sense to try out a flatter arched boot first, but I don't know how to accomplish that. I'm such a wide width, only available in a semi custom order, that I can't get a cheaper Jackson if I wanted (my boot is the lowest level boot that can be ordered in my size). I would have to assume the same is true of other brands. So I'd have to take a leap of faith that another brand (say Riedell) would be a better match for me. I'd still have to get full customs to do that and spend the $2000 including traveling to do that. I don't know any other way to identify exactly what the issue is other than just trying something new. So what would you do? Full on customs at a different boot maker, or another shot at Jackson at less than half the price? Neither is more guaranteed than the other.

If you were to go with a different manufacturer (Riedell as just one possible example), why would you necessarily need to go full custom to try out a lower-arched boot?  Wouldn't you go the same route you did with Jackson; i.e., pick a reasonable level boot with a flatter arch that can be ordered in your size, either as a stock wide or semi-custom wide, and see whether your pain stays or vanishes?   

[MCsAngel2]

If you were to go with a different manufacturer (Riedell as just one possible example), why would you necessarily need to go full custom to try out a lower-arched boot?  Wouldn't you go the same route you did with Jackson; i.e., pick a reasonable level boot with a flatter arch that can be ordered in your size, either as a stock wide or semi-custom wide, and see whether your pain stays or vanishes?

I did mean semi custom or full custom. My point is, I'm such a wide width (not regular stock wide D, special order EE wide) that there aren't any lower level boots from any manufacturer that I can order. To get something that can be made to fit me, I'm going to have to be in the upper tier of boots, they won't customize a lightweight stiffness boot for me.

The problem is, the way the stiffnesses work are not the same. I have heard, and experienced myself in person when comparing Jacksons and Riedells at the shop, that you have to halve a Riedell rating to get an equivalent in Jackson. My Jacksons are rated 45; to get an equivalent in Riedell I would have to get a Silver Star which is rated 90 (and I've held them in person and know this is correct). But my Jackson boots were $340 before adding options; the Silver Stars start at $635. I don't know if Riedell has a la carte pricing like Jackson does, but it's already pretty close to full custom pricing which I think is $900. Which means it's more than a second attempt at Jacksons with more options. I don't even know if Riedell carries my width as a semi custom option. That is if I want to attempt to order customs with the help of my tech and stay local. If I want to go to the factory to get fitted, then I'll have to pay airefare and hotel, MN is across the country from me and can't do it in one day. So again...which would you do?

[Query]

Why do you believe you need extra high heels?

All stock ice skates have somewhat high heels. It is even possible that is contributing to your foot pain.

Before you pick a higher heel, it is very important that you verify you can deal with that.

I once bought custom boots with very high heels, because I was told by an incompetent custom fitter that I needed high heels for ice dance. But it hurt me to wear them, and had to have them modified - I'm simply not flexible enough to point my feet that much. Especially since you sometimes need to point and flex your feet to do some skating moves, so you need excess flexibility. If I was buying custom boots now, I would use low heels.

High heels are functionally equivalent to putting a thick shim under your heel plate. You could try that. That's essentially what  tstop4me is suggesting.

Assuming you keep your current blades, a side effect will be that your toe pick will tend to grab the ice more, because it will tilt your blades forwards. You may not be able to deal with that. Basically, you need to flex your ankle (the opposite of pointing your foot) to compensate, any time you aren't on your toes. That takes flexibility too, in a different direction. Ice dance blades are made with short, differently angled toe picks to compensate somewhat for this problem, but other blades aren't.

Also, high heels in boots are usually combined with creating more of an upwards foot bend around the balls of your feet, so your feet don't tend to slide downwards/forward. Your feet may or may not be comfortable such a strong bent-foot configuration. Mine aren't.

As it happens, I have never worn high heeled shoes. But could you try some on and see whether they are comfortable for you? Maybe you can find ones with various heel heights, and various forward/back footbed tilts, and various foot bends? Make sure you try pointing and flexing your feet, while you do. Most ice skates provide a lot of ankle support, which obviously makes them different from fashion high heels, which provide none, but the foot positions should still be similar. I was once told that walking in high heels requires a technique and muscle development similar to ballet toe dancing. Can you do that?

A number of years ago, I asked a Riedell rep at a competition about custom boots. Because my toes are much wider than my heels, he told me they could not make skates that would fit me. Perhaps that has changed. But I was told then by someone who sold multiple brands of custom boot that Harlick did the best job of customizing boots to one's feet, especially for people with wide toes. BTW, to the Harlick rep there told me they had just made a pair of skate boots with a flat horizontal footbed (like that of ballet slippers) for a ballerina - and had made another boot pair for someone with "diabetic feet". (A "diabetic foot" is one that cannot easily feel the pressures on the feet, or incipient sores, so fitting such people for shoes is extremely difficult, and so is often done by podiatrists. People with such feet also frequently have very poor circulation in their feet, so the fit has to be nearly perfect, else they could cut off the circulation and maybe lose their feet.)

So I suspect Harlick could make whatever you wanted, if you buy full custom boots. Once you've decided what that is. And if you use one of their favored fitters, such as the ones at the factory store, or who they send to skating competitions.

I forget - did you ever see a podiatrist about the pain in your current boots? Yes, podiatrists are expensive (about $400 in the U.S.) - but a good one might even find a way to make your current boots work for you. And possibly prevent you from making a big mistake in your next pair.

[MCsAngel2]

I began this thread before I talked to the Jackson rep and learned more about what they could do. I didn't say I needed extra high heels - if anything, I'm planning on getting a lower heel next time. Jackson tends to have higher heels, the dance boot in particular, and I had read a few things about the advantages of higher heels. But after consideration, and deciding to get MK Pros the next time around, seems like a lower heel is a better plan for me. The most important thing is to get boots with a flatter arch, which it seems can be done at Jackson with their old last. This option, going through my tech, would be much, much less money than other options, but without the scanner, involves ordering with a wing and a prayer.

I'm very skeptical about Harlicks being right for me after reading about how they fit, especially around the toes (even the X-line). I've also heard multiple stories in the last year (including by one girl at my rink) about how their turnaround time has become ridiculously long - months and months.

I've wavered a lot on whether Riedells would work. I'd have to talk to someone there to get more info.

Then there's Avantas, which I previously said I was leaning towards. I've seen pics of some of the feet they've made skates for, I'm pretty sure they could fit ANYONE. They're also just close enough (one state over) that I could fly there and back in the same day. Still more $$ than new Jacksons ordered locally. It's a lot to think about.

[Query]

As we have mentioned before, you can flatten the arch in almost any shoe or boot by adding tape or adhesive foam (e.g., moleskin) under the insole (or over it, but you want to be sure the result is smooth, so it doesn't injure your foot), in the places where you want to flatten the foot bed, or custom cutting your own insole - provided there is still sufficient room for your foot inside the boot after you have done so. It is an easy thing to try, and it costs very little. Likewise, to some extent you can widen the boot at any point, including the toe box, with something like this - e.g., if a side pinch is forcing your arch up too high. (I'm not sure that would work for synthetic boots, like some Edea.)

I suppose that if you get a very low heel for your anatomy, that too might cause problems. E.g., it may be too hard to point the toe pick into the ice sufficiently for some figure skating moves.

Some boot making companies probably ignore the detailed shape or tilt of the underside of the foot - e.g., I don't know whether the common laser scanners pick that up. Fit is further complicated by the fact that putting your foot into the boot, and putting your weight on it, changes the shape of your foot, and some people need the boot to change that shape in particular ways, in order to be comfortable. Also, for some reason, boot makers are not completely consistent when they manufacture boots. Finally, at least for ladies, fit can vary with the stage of their feminine cycles. Thus, even if you get custom boots, it is not uncommon for people to feel a need to make additional adjustments, similar to those discussed. (I'm not sure, but maybe some people even use different insoles at different stages of their cycles. Incidentally, if you are female, and will become pregnant soon, now may not be the best time to get custom boots. For that matter, any major weight gains or losses, can cause foot size and shape changes too, in both men and women, sometimes permanent. )

Regardless, it is worth contacting any custom boot maker to see if they provide a guaranteed fit that makes you happy, how that guarantee is activated, and what you would need to do to get them to make good on it (e.g., travel to their factory again, within a few weeks). I personally wouldn't get a high priced custom boot from boot maker who wasn't willing to guarantee satisfaction.

If you are indeed reasonably close to the Avanta factory (note that they also sell through dealers, who might have different policies), last I knew (I may be out of date), I think they had the advantage of including a free consult with their own licensed podiatrist who looks at and measures your feet, when you buy custom boots, if you come to them. Since you are having trouble figuring out what you need, a medical professional like that might be helpful. It would be really awful to go through all this trouble and expense, and still end up with boots that didn't work for you. Being close to Avanta might also mean you could afford to travel to them for a second meeting to make the final adjustments, and check the fit. Were I you, I would also look into whether there are cheaper ways to travel - e.g., drive, bus, train, carpool with someone else at your rink who wants custom skates. But it's pretty scary to buy anything from someone who doesn't even bother to list prices on their website! "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

[icepixie]

I believe Avanta boots are a flat fee of $1200.  That's what Will told me last year and what I paid.  (Worth every penny for my oddly shaped and extremely sensitive feet.)

[MCsAngel2]

Does anyone know which comes first - custom orthotics or the boots? Do bootmakers need to have the orthotic to know how much room to create? Or do I just tell them I am going to have them and have them create a generic amount of room, and then have the orthopedist design the orthotics based on the boot?

[Query]

Does anyone know which comes first - custom orthotics or the boots? Do bootmakers need to have the orthotic to know how much room to create? Or do I just tell them I am going to have them and have them create a generic amount of room, and then have the orthopedist design the orthotics based on the boot?

In principle, a full custom boot IS an orthotic, if it is done right.

But on such matters, you should ask each potential boot maker for advice. Ask them about whether they have a money-back guarantee on a boot fit that will make you happy, and ask them whether you would still need an orthotic. Different boot makers design boots differently, and it probably makes sense to do it their way.

$1200, or so, is a lot for a pair of glorified shoes. But you should consider it in conjunction with your other skating costs. I don't know how much money spend on skating. But if you spend $30 - $60 / week on private lessons, $20 - $100 / week on skating sessions, $30 - $60 / week driving to and from the rink and/or the pro shop, more getting blades sharpened and eventually replaced, and additional money on  clothing, make-up, club memberships, tests, competitions, off ice exercises, and medical expenses, $1200 isn't entirely out of line, especially if boots that work well reduce the time and money spent compensating for boots that cause you problems. And if your current boots cause you serious pain, it is possible they will eventually cause a serious injury or other long-term medical problem.

You don't seem to have the confidence to experiment with making your own modifications until you can make the current boots fit well, or maybe they are simply impossible to be made to work - so getting help from people like the Avanta podiatrist (if that person's services are still provided in the boot cost) who have the training might make sense for you. If you can afford it. And he/she would help you decide what to do about an orthotic. Of course, a podiatrist recommended to you by other skaters (to some extent skate podiatry is a specialty) might be able to make your current boots work well for less - but that can't be predicted with certainty by us. If I lived one state away from Avanta's main site, and could afford it, I'd probably drive there (or go some other way), both for the initial fitting, and again for any final adjustments, if they are needed, because that is where their own experts are.

There are a lot of things in life where you can't perfectly predict what the best possible decision will be. This is one of them. icepixie seems pretty happy with what they did for her. So were some other people on this forum. But it's your decision.

[Arwen17]

Edea supposedly has a high heel and I think it does since my foot likes to go numb and be in pain when I stand still in them for too long and it's all in the toe upper area of the foot. So I think the high heel pushes all of my weight forward into that area and it hurts if I stand still longer than 10-15min. As long as I keep moving, it never hurts.

However, despite the high heel, the footbed itself feels incredibly flat to me. I had to get arch inserts for the first time ever to deal with how flat the footbed is. I have high arches and Edea is too flat. I felt like I was being stabbed with a knife in my arches before I got the arch inserts. I would literally have to sit down after only 10 minutes of skating it was so painful.

[MCsAngel2]

I have been playing with modifications as far as I'm able, while at the same time trying to accomodate my flat feet with aftermarket insoles. There isn't any room to add anything more at this point, otherwise I'd be experimenting with tape layers. Still not satisfied with the blade placement on my left foot, I moved it myself for the first time today. Still don't think it's exactly where I want it but due to where the holes are, and where the holes were put on the first temp mount, I can't do anything more without having the tech plug them up and start over. Between being out of room and still having pronation issues, it seems to me I need something more than I have right now.

No, I don't spend a lot of money on skating right now, for various reasons. It may be silly to spend that kind of money as a beginner, but my money, my choice, but also trying to make the smart choice. Avanta is much too far away to drive for me. It'd be at least 2 days one way. I have a full time job. I have more money than time at this stage of my life. Flying there and back in a day is doable, but obviously still more expensive than giving Jackson another shot with different semi customs.

[MCsAngel2]

However, despite the high heel, the footbed itself feels incredibly flat to me. I had to get arch inserts for the first time ever to deal with how flat the footbed is. I have high arches and Edea is too flat. I felt like I was being stabbed with a knife in my arches before I got the arch inserts. I would literally have to sit down after only 10 minutes of skating it was so painful.

Yeah, I have the opposite problem. Flat feet that are too squished in the arch.

[Arwen17]

Yeah, I have the opposite problem. Flat feet that are too squished in the arch.

Maybe Edea's flat footbed will be comfortable to you then.

[Query]

Edea supposedly has a high heel and I think it does since my foot likes to go numb and be in pain when I stand still in them for too long and it's all in the toe upper area of the foot. So I think the high heel pushes all of my weight forward into that area and it hurts if I stand still longer than 10-15min. As long as I keep moving, it never hurts.

However, despite the high heel, the footbed itself feels incredibly flat to me. I had to get arch inserts for the first time ever to deal with how flat the footbed is. I have high arches and Edea is too flat. I felt like I was being stabbed with a knife in my arches before I got the arch inserts. I would literally have to sit down after only 10 minutes of skating it was so painful.

Oh - so Edea didn't create the upwards bend in the footbed at the ball of your foot that most skate boots have? That would probably have stopped the foot from sliding forward.

You could try something else: If the front of the boot stops the upper part of your foot from sliding forwards, maybe the pain would go away.  In particular, if you take moleskin, and stick it onto the front part of the boot, in the part above the toes and around the tongue of the boot, until your foot touches it, you can use that to push your foot back, so that your heel stays against the bottom back of your boot, and the force on the front of the foot would be spread out over a larger area. If it is jamming against the front of your toes, that's a very sensitive, easily injured place to have much pressure.

Are the arch inserts you used along the whole arch, or just the front? Another way to have approached this would have been to create an insole that was thick at the front (or you tape it to make it fat), so that you had an upwards bend. Of course, there has to be enough room in the toebox above your foot for the foot to fit that way.

But I hope the way you fixed it, with the arch inserts, is reasonably comfortable for you, and does the job.

Unfortunately, based on what I've seen, Edea assumes the heel, midfoot, and toes are nearly the same width, which, if I remember right, is not true of the original poster, nor is it true of me. E.g., one of Edea's most expert fitters and modifiers told me no Edea could ever be made to fit me - and fairly likely, not the original poster either. Too bad - for people with the right foot shape, Edea makes beautiful, very lightweight boots.

[Arwen17]

My foot is not sliding forward. My toes are not in pain. My ankle always stays locked in the back of the boot.
The higher heel just creates more pressure on the underside of the front part of my foot. It's my upper footpad, not my toes, that goes into a combination of pain and numbness. But like I said before, only if I stand still for 10min or more. If I keep moving or sit down, it's totally fine, can't feel a thing.

The arch pain is how flat the footbed somehow is, despite the high heel. There's just zero arch support, it's so flat. Arch pain can also happen if I tie Edea too tightly in that region. Edea is very correct that the only super tight area of the laces should be right at the bend of your boot. Anything below or above that area shouldn't be very tight.

My skates are fine. I'm not experiencing any issues, other than my "don't stand still for longer than 10min" issue. That means keep moving or sit down. Not hard to do.

Exactly what I use: https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Scholls-Stylish-Hidden-Support/dp/B01M7VGJNY/

I've had to replace the right foot arch support once a year so far. Actually just replaced it a couple weeks ago. It's probably because my right foot is my landing leg and I eventually crush the arch support to flatness. I can immediately feel when it suddenly goes sour and is too flat. I cannot feel my arch supports at all when they are in properly. They feel seamless with my foot and skate. When it goes flat, it feels like I have a lump in my boot or a big wrinkle in my sock, and is very distracting. Mine went sour 2 days before my FS test this time. Really glad it didn't happen on test day itself. But there is no break-in period. I just go to CVS, buy new ones, slip them in, and it's back to feeling 100% seamless again.
I'm not sure if my left one will last indefinitely or not, since it's not my landing leg, it receives no pounding.

And yeah, they heatmolded it for me for my ankle bones and navicular bone that stick out too much, plus a bit of extra room for my pinkie toes. But otherwise, it fit really well. My only pain after they finished heatmolding was my need of arch supports.

P.S. if you have enough room to jam anything in front of your toes, your boots are extremely poorly fitted. I don't care what brand it is. I can only wear thin socks, my skates are so well sized to my foot.

[Query]

P.S. if you have enough room to jam anything in front of your toes, your boots are extremely poorly fitted. I don't care what brand it is. I can only wear thin socks, my skates are so well sized to my foot.

So are you one of the people who support their weight on their toes when jumping? I've assumed that was dangerous, and would be afraid I'd break my toes that way. But I know some people do it.

[Arwen17]

So are you one of the people who support their weight on their toes when jumping? I've assumed that was dangerous, and would be afraid I'd break my toes that way. But I know some people do it.

You always say the most bizarre things that make me wonder if you've ever skated before.
The skate should fit your foot. Period. You shouldn't have to wear thick socks or cram stuff in there to make it fit your foot. Your toes also shouldn't be jammed up against the front. If you have too much room or too little room for your toes, the skate doesn't fit your foot. How hard is that to understand?
My toes touch the skate, but they are not jammed. I can wiggle them just slightly.

[Query]

Arwen17,  I meant no offence. I'm glad you managed to find or order skate boots that fit you. That must be wonderful.

I don't think that is true of most skaters, even those who, like me, ordered expensive custom fit boots from people recommended by our coaches and friends, and who we assumed were competent to do the fitting.

If you order stock boots, and frequently even custom boots, it is nearly impossible for most people to find skate boots that fit everywhere. On top of that, most of the custom boot makers assume that certain final modifications will be made by the in-store fitter.

Next time you see people taking off or putting on their skates, especially those who don't wear socks so you can see the feet, take a look at those feet. Notice how many of them have bruises in front of their toes, or bent toes, because they do slide into them, or because the boots were a little too short for one of their toes, obvious calluses and/or corns and/or blisters and/or other problems that were probably caused by their boots, in one or another part of those feet. Even some of the most competitive figure and hockey skaters.

So if some of us end up finding ways to compensate for poor fit, that doesn't mean we haven't thought long and hard about what we are doing, experimented with many potential fixes, and consulted with many other people on such problems. Including skate techs and boot makers.

A significant fraction of the people who say there isn't any space in front of their toes are constantly sliding their foot around, sometimes hitting their toes against the front of the boot. A few injure their toes or feet because they jam them against the front of the boots. What I mentioned wasn't especially atypical. I have also met people who in fact prefer to support their weight on their toes while doing figure skate jumps, and therefore want their toes to touch all the time - including some very competent skaters, and one of the world's best known skate techs who did his own jumps off of crossed toes, one of the things, along with touching the front of the toes against boots and shoes, that podiatrists frequently warn against.

Since you say there is no room in front of your toes to put anything, I just wondered if you were one of those people who put most of their weight on their toes while jumping, and don't support much of it on the upper part of the boot. And whether that causes any problems - e.g., whether you have ever fractured or broken anything, or developed hammer toes, or bruises, that way. Also, if so, whether you feel touching toes against the front of the boot gives you better control, or there is some other benefit.