Exercises for ankles

[TheWriterInBlack]

It was Alpine Ice Arena in Louisville that I contacted (listed dealer from the Riedell dealer locator).  The Riedell listing didn't give a website so I searched and contacted via the contact email.  They're the ones that came back suggesting I send them an outline of my feet.

I ended up calling Tom (in response to his email) at Northland Pro Shop in Cincinnati.  Got an appointment for tomorrow morning at 10:00 for fitting.  He'll have to order the skates and I'll either have to go back or, if I can find someplace local that can do the "heat molding" (a hockey place might be able to do it, he said, because "it's the same oven") he can have them shipped to me.  So, at least for a week or two, I'll still be using my old skates but then I'll have better ones that are properly fitted.

[Bill_S]

It sounds like Tom at the Northland Pro Shop offers the best option. It is what I expected for better quality men's skates - no shortcuts.

You will be amazed at the difference good skates will make.

[TheWriterInBlack]

Local hockey supply can do the heat molding.  So maybe I can have Northland Pro Shop have the skates drop shipped from the manufacturer rather than shipping first to them and then from them to me.  That would get me on the new skates quickest.

[Bill_S]

That sounds like a plan!

Being local to you, the local hockey shop will be easy to revisit for secondary tweaks, for example if the boots need punched out at the ankle bones or toe joints.

[Loops]

Buying skates is never easy. Remember there are good brands besides Riedell (you may discover you don't have Riedell feet). Have fun in Cincinnati at the shop!!! Good luck, and keep us posted. Black skates or white, we've all been where you are. 

[TheWriterInBlack]

So, went and got measured this morning.  9.5 wide per Riedell's measuring gadget.  We went ahead and ordered a pair of "Motion" boots with, at the recommendation of the dealer, the better of the two blade options.  He also discounted the combo $25 "to compensate for the long drive".  Oh, and he also took the measurement for Jackson skates in case Riedell is out of stock and it's going to be something like six weeks.  He said that if they are in stock he'll probably get them by Thursday in which case I'll probably have them by Saturday (in time for next week's Sunday class.  Yay!).

As it happened, my daughter, BTW, did get her skates from Play it Again Sports and has been very happy with them (once we got them sharpened at the rink; she didn't like PiAS's sharpening job).  Turns out they are Jackson Classique and not beat to death by previous owners.  Looking at Jackson's web page (now that I know to look for the brand--I really had no clue coming into this) it looks like we lucked into them both in fit and quality.

[Bill_S]

Even though the winter skating season is over, let's hope that Riedell has the skates in stock for you. You can't go wrong with Jacksons either if things turn out that way.

Sounds like your daughter was fortunate to get the Classiques in the condition you describe.

Keep us posted!

[Loops]

....it looks like we lucked into them both in fit and quality.

Always something to celebrate!  This whole thing is a learning process.  One, that sadly, has no end due to stock updates, and design changes from the various brands.  So glad the trip to Cincinnati was fruitful.

A site to look at, just to edificate yourself is Kinzies Closet.  I will never advocate for buying boots online, simply because fit is so fickle, BUT  they have great resources on this site, and certainly blades and accessories can easily be bought online.  I think they carry all the major brands available in the US (we have a different set here in Europe), so you can get an idea of at least the landscape, and what the important variables are.

Good luck on your journey, both on and off ice!  And please, definitely do keep us posted.

[Query]

I spoke to one of the instructors at a public skate this past Saturday--the one who has actually been teaching me and my daughter separate from the rest of the class (we're at a different stage than the others are).  Unfortunately, he strictly does hockey skates himself and didn't know where to get figure skates.

He might not be a very good instructor for figure skating. That could be totally unfair: I haven't seen him skate or teach, but there are moves in figure skating that are very hard to do in hockey skates - and if he has never used figure skates, he might have trouble telling you how to take advantage of the features of figure skates. E.g., even at a beginning level, you don't put your weight in the same places, and the raised heels, extended tail, and toepicks change a lot of things. Of course, I could be wrong about that instructor.

[FigureSpins]

Congrats - great news. 

The Classiques were the best of that trio of Jackson skate models.  I think of them as "MAC" - Mystique (softest), Artiste (midrange) and Classique (sturdy.)  I rarely recommend the Mystique model, but the Jackson Artiste are good for little, light skaters.  They had trouble breaking in the Classique skate because of the stiffness.  Jackson discontinued the Classiques, which is unfortunate.  It was an affordable option for Basic 4-Pre-Freeskate level skaters who weren't pocket-sized.

Did he use the Jackson gadget to measure your feet?  I wear a full size larger in Riedells than Jacksons per each mfg's measuring device.

[TheWriterInBlack]

Used the Riedell gadget for the Riedell size and the Jackson gadget for the Jackson size.  Still waiting anxiously to hear that the skates have arrived.

[FigureSpins]

Excellent!  Good luck.

[TheWriterInBlack]

And the skates have arrived at the pro shop.  Getting them out UPS ground to me today.  Yay!

Of course, trying them on will be the ultimate check of fit but we'll.soon see.

[Bill_S]

Now you get to experience another skating ritual - breaking in new boots! 

I see that FigureSpins resurrected an older thread regarding new boot break-in. There are some tidbits in there that might help you.

[TheWriterInBlack]

Skates should be arriving today or tomorrow.  I should be able to get them heat molded Saturday either at the local Perani's (hockey place, but they can do the heat molding) or at the rink.  Sharpening at the rink (recommended not to let a hockey place do it).  This means Saturday's public skate should be the last time I need to rely on the current skate.

Edit:  And they arrived today.  Yay.  A little tight in the toe-box but dealable with.

[Query]

Hope it all works!

[TheWriterInBlack]

Was able to get to Peranis and have the skates heat molded and sharped so I was able to do the public skate Friday night.  When I tried the skates on at first, they were very snug, which I understand was what I wanted.

When I tried them at the rink, my balance seemed to be gone.  I was tottering along almost like my first day back on skates.   When I tried to do a snowplow stop I couldn't do it to the tune of a couple of falls.  It's like I forgot everything I'd learned in the last couple of months.  Then, pain in my feet soon got too bad to continue.  All in all, a very frustrating outing.

I really hope this is just break in and getting used to the new skates because I'd really hate to think I wasted just this side of $500 on skates I'm not going to be able to use.

[Bill_S]

I could have predicted the pain - breaking in proper fitting skates is not easy, and often causes pain. I got bloody skin on my ankle bones when I was breaking in the best fitting pair of skates that I ever had. When I was breaking in the boots, I thought that the fitter had gone completely mad. They felt like someone had c-clamped some two-by-fours to my feet. After a month, they started breaking in and soon thereafter became almost a part of my foot. The break-in is something that we're not used to with comfy street shoes.  Give it time.

If you have pain from a local pressure-point (commonly ankle bones or toe joints - the bits that protrude), you can have them "punched out" at your shop. They can locally stretch some of the boot material over the pressure point with a tool that looks like this... https://wissota.com/product/bootpunch/

Oh, one more thing. Some skaters (wearing blade guards of course) lace them up and do standing and squatting exercises at home for small periods of time to accelerate the process.

The balance issue could be a number of things, including the rocker on the skate blade. If the old skates had a fairly flat profile front to back, then these will feel tipsy. They are newly sharpened too, which could easily make stops harder to do.

I do have one question - are all the screw holes on the blade's sole plate populated? Are some left empty? The answer to that question may lead to another suggestion.

[FigureSpins]

Did you look at the break in advice thread I bumped earlier this week? 

I would definitely recommend not tying the hooks all the way up to the top.  Leave the top pair undone and tie it off below that spot.  Go around the lower hooks twice to use up the extra length of lace.  That will let you bend your knees and balance easier.

Did the shop sharpen the blades yet?

[TheWriterInBlack]

I haven't looked at that other thread yet.  I will.  I had the skates sharpened right after the heat molding.

Did a little better tonight.  Lasted about twice as long before it became too uncomfortable to continue.

Class tomorrow and I'll talk to the instructor about my difficulties.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Bill_S]

Just to simplify your life, the thread about breaking-in skates that was resurrected by FigureSpins can be found here... http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=6368.0

Someone just posted to that thread, and mentioned Bunga pads for helping with pressure points. I heartily agree! I bought a kit that had two ankle sleeves plus two gel pads when I was breaking-in new skates. They really help. But they are expensive.

[Query]

When I tried them at the rink, my balance seemed to be gone.  I was tottering along almost like my first day back on skates.   When I tried to do a snowplow stop I couldn't do it to the tune of a couple of falls.  It's like I forgot everything I'd learned in the last couple of months.  Then, pain in my feet soon got too bad to continue.  All in all, a very frustrating outing.

Forward/back Balance or side-to-side balance? E.g., do you feel like you need to work to prevent yourself from falling to the inside or to the outside? If so, which one, on which foot/feet? There is a very good chance that this can be fixed by items 2 or 3 below.

AFAIK, arch pain is usually caused by one of several issues:
1. At some point along the skate, the skate is too narrow. It is pinching part of your foot. That can hurt. In addition, pinching the foot from the sides forces the arch upwards, sometimes to the point of discomfort.
2. There is a mismatch between the shape at the bottom of the skate and the bottom of your foot. You want approximately equal pressure on all parts of the bottom of your feet. If some part isn't getting as much support as some other part, or feels like it is being pushed into an uncomfortable shape, remove the insole, trace it on a piece of foam or a bigger and thicker insole, cut that out, and cut down the insole in a 3D sense to get equal pressure everywhere, and put the insole back in. Or add tape underneath one part. Or trace it on a piece of foam, and cut it to shape, in a 3D sense. E.g., if you feel like you have less pressure under the arch than on the opposite side, you could add tape under the part of the insole that is underneath the arch. That said, people whose feet collapse asymmetrically under weight (so that, for example, your foot tilts to one side as you put weight on it) sometimes need slightly unequal pressure to counter that problem.
3. There is a side-to-side balance issue. You keep having to use your muscles to stay in balance. Balance is affected by the side-to-side positioning of the blade (sometimes called "offset"), and by the 3D mismatch problem I just mentioned. Most skate techs for adjust this by changing the offset, but I eventually decided I am better off adjusting it by changing the shape of the insole. In particular, if you adjust offset too much, it creates other problems with things like spins, and some boots can be damaged by off-center weight loading.
4. The heel is too high. You simply aren't flexible enough for that heel.

By the way, instead of changing the shape of the insole by hand, some people prefer to use a heat-mold-able orthotic. It costs more, but it is a bit faster, and you don't have to figure out what to do, especially if you pay a podiatrist, PT, or other qualified expert to do it. Me, I'd rather spend a few pennies on tape, or buy a cheap piece of foam (I bought a $7 camping pad, which is big enough to make many insoles - it eventually squishes down and needs to be replaced) and cut it down until it feels perfect, than to pay an medical practitioner to MAYBE do it right.

There is also another possibility with balance: maybe you just need to get used to the new skates and blades. However, that doesn't explain the pain.

[TheWriterInBlack]

The balance issue I'm having is front to back.  It looks like the blades on this skate have a more curved rocker (not sure what the proper term is for that), and was sharpened to a deeper hollow between the edges.  Also, the bottom of the toe picks come down closer to the ice.  The combination, I think is making the blade more sensitive to smaller mistakes meaning the learning curve has gotten steeper for me.

In class today the instructor had me doing just basic stuff, specifically to get used to the new skates.  Just basically skating back and forth doing dips.  The head instructor came over a couple of times to give me some tips.  One of the things he said was that they have the new skaters skate "upright" more (legs straight) because it's easier to feel where they are on the skate that way, but that a little flex in the knee is more stable.

As far as the pain in the arches is concerned, I have problems with my arches to start with.  I wear custom orthotics from my podiatrist in my regular shoes or I end up pretty quickly having the same pain issues I'm having in the skates.  I have a pair in the skates but it's entirely possible they aren't adequate for use in the skates which have to fit a lot more tightly than my regular shoes.  The instructor may have been joking when he suggested taking the skates with me to my next appointment with the podiatrist but I was actually already thinking along those lines.

[TheWriterInBlack]

I suppose I should properly close this out.

Success!

The main problem ongoing here has been that my feet have been pure misery. Bad arches and rather thick feet and ankles contributed to the problem. Well, trying the skates at home (plastic guards to protect floor and blades from each other of course) I could concentrate on what's going on. I found that with one pair of my orthotics in place there was a pressure point right behind the balls of my feet where the pain was concentrated. Ah Hah! Said I. The shape of the boot and the orthotic conspired to cause the end of the orthotic dig into my foot there. So I took out the orthotic and just used a gel insole, carefully trimmed to match the insole that came with the boot. With that my whole foot hurt with most of the pain running along the inside edge of the arch.

This led me to sit down and think. Remember what I just said about thick feet and ankles? The laces that came with the skates (108") weren't really long enough, even the longer laces (120") I'd bought at the rink pro shop weren't. I had to crank them down really tight through the instep to have enough lace to get even the first three of the speed laces (hooks) which I needed for ankle support.

So I went to the store and got two pair of 72" laces. I tied two laces together (twice) giving me 140" laces. And ta dah! I was able to keep them just snug over my instep and get up all four pairs of speed laces. I still got some foot pain, bad arches aren't magically going away, but it was manageable .

Tried it out on the ice tonight. So much better. Did eight laps--a personal best--with only a couple of short breaks to relieve foot pain. At the end it was fatigue, catching toe picks on the ice and the like, which told me it was time to stop.

Skating is still more chore than pleasure (having to work too hard at it) but I can see myself getting there now. Practice and training and I should be able to flip that around.

[Loops]

Wow! Awesome on ya for figuring that out!
+GOE