Arch Pain

[_wonderland]

Arch pain - my nemesis!

What causes it, typically? I know every foot / skater is different but in general, is there a consensus here?

It's AWFUL and so painful that I have to get off the ice, sometimes within 10 to 15 minutes. The moment my foot comes out of the skate, the pain is gone. So it's not an injury, it's definitely the boot. I've got Edea Ice Flys in a standard C width. I had the same pain as a kid in Risports. I have wide metatarsals and narrower at the heel / achilles. I don't think my arches are particularly high, but my feet aren't flat. I have tried switching out the insoles for some with arch support, seems to help a little but doesn't eliminate the pain.

I would love to hear thoughts and ideas from those of you who have experienced this pain and what you've done to help. Getting customs at this point is really not an option, but possibly something to consider in the future.

[tstop4me]

What causes it, typically? I know every foot / skater is different but in general, is there a consensus here?

Every foot is different, and every boot is different.  Too many variables.  I don't think reading about other skaters' experiences will help you ... and may cause harm if they lead you down the wrong path.  Start with your skate tech.  If he can't resolve the issue, you'll need to find a podiatrist with experience helping figure skaters (I know, they're hard to come by in many areas).  Good luck!

[masterblaster]

It could be so, so many things: boot too narrow, boot too wide, boot too long, too high of an arch support, too flat of an arch support, etc.

In my personal case, I suspect my boot (Jackson Elle Fusion) has too high an arch support for my fairly flat feet. I played around with different insoles and padding for a few days, but ultimately decided that keeping the original insoles but lacing slightly differently (less tight over the toes, more tight three eyelets below the ankle crease and up the ankle hooks) was the best solution. It produced good heel lock for me with a minimum of arch pain.

But there are millions of potential solutions, depending on the boot and the foot.

[Query]

I'm not a medically qualified expert. But I had a lot of boot fit problems. I've given this a lot of thought, and have conversed with a lot of people who have had such problems. Because skate boots have to fit quite tightly to work well, and have to be quite stiff, you are likely to have far more problems with skates than most other  shoes. Because all feet are different, there is a tremendous amount of variety in the problems people have with skates. There are no guarantees here.

You should start by talking to your boot fitter. If he/she is any good, he/she may be able to help.

You could seek a medical professional's help. The professionals in this area are "podiatrists" and those "orthopaedic surgeons" who specialize in feet. Some Physical Therapists also know what they are doing. If you seek a professional's help, it is probably best to pick one who specializes in "sports medicine". Admittedly, the medical professional may charge as much for their time as your boots cost, and not all are very good at skates, but some people are very happy with some professionals. You could ask around your rink and the local coaches for advice on who is good.

Personally, I love to do things for myself. Assuming you do too:

Start by asking yourself whether the boot is squeezing hard some part of the bottom of your foot from the sides - e.g., near the toes, the heel, the midfoot. If so, you probably want to get the boot stretched ("punched") there. You probably want very little pressure on the sides or front of your toes - in fact, many people would say you don't need any pressure on the front of your toes, though some people find it easier to jump if there is some pressure there, and tastes vary.

Aside from that, you probably want roughly equal pressure on your foot everywhere else - except you need to have some space in front of and behind the part of your foot above the ankle, so you can point and flex the ankle. That said, people who whose foot collapses more on the inside (near your body's center line) more than the outside (near your sides), under weight, may need to get a little extra support under that part of the foot - and vice versa.

Some people collapse more in the front than the back, and vice versa - the same principles apply. That said, it is also possible that the elevated heel that your figure skates include is too high for you to be comfortable.

Is the foot red where it hurts? If so, it may be sliding around inside the boot, because there is too much space somewhere. More about that later.

Assuming I suggest you remove your insole(s) if you can, trace it on a cheap (e.g., dollar store) store-bought insole, cut the store-bought insole to the same shape, and start playing with it, until you are happy. I prefer to take a fairly thin insole, so I have more space inside the boot to play.

If you think some part of the underside of the foot is being squeezed too hard, try sanding the insole there (or underneath the insole in that spot), to make more space.

If you think it isn't supporting some part of the underside of your foot well enough, try adding cloth athletic tape there - preferably underneath the insole, so the tape doesn't create a sharp edge where it ends.

If you think some part of the sides or heel of your foot doesn't have enough pressure against the side, create "wings". I.E., take a piece of athletic tape, attach it under the insole there, and fold the rest of the tape over so it can't stick to anything else, and run it along side your foot there.

Once everything is good, you may decide the result of your home-remade-insole, with tape, is a mess. So cut down a piece of foam (I use the cheap foam from a camping pad, though it only lasts a few months, because it gradually squishes down - I like that such foam is "skin safe", which some foams are not) with a scissors, until it has the same 3-dimensional shape. It can be very comfortable, and do everything right. With practice, you can start with the foam, and cut it to make yourself comfortable.

I have a web page at http://mgrunes.com/boots/boots.html which addresses this in more detail.

Good luck!

[LunarSkater]

Arch pain - my nemesis!

What causes it, typically? I know every foot / skater is different but in general, is there a consensus here?

It's AWFUL and so painful that I have to get off the ice, sometimes within 10 to 15 minutes. The moment my foot comes out of the skate, the pain is gone. So it's not an injury, it's definitely the boot. I've got Edea Ice Flys in a standard C width. I had the same pain as a kid in Risports. I have wide metatarsals and narrower at the heel / achilles. I don't think my arches are particularly high, but my feet aren't flat. I have tried switching out the insoles for some with arch support, seems to help a little but doesn't eliminate the pain.

I would love to hear thoughts and ideas from those of you who have experienced this pain and what you've done to help. Getting customs at this point is really not an option, but possibly something to consider in the future.

One of the first things that came to mind is the support you put into the skates. I have high arches; I currently have semi-custom boots for width (C/AAA). I did not get arch support with them and it's something I'm definitely doing when I get new boots. But anyway, to get support recently, I purchased cheap insertable arch supports from Walmart and stuck them in under my insoles. These are not the ones that run the full foot, just the supports directly for the arch. They're gel with sticky backs. I spent several public sessions playing around with them because even a millimeter wrong in placement caused me immense pain. Are the ones you purchased supporting you in the right place in your foot? Do they fit properly where you need them to or is it more along the lines of 'good enough to try and skate'?

Another thing I can think of is your lacing pattern. Are you perhaps pulling them too snug too far down towards the toes to try and get your foot to lock in properly?

And I'm going to throw this out there, even though new boots are probably not an option for you. Your fit sounds a bit similar to mine, wide to narrow. I was fit in Edea; I cannot wear them because of the shape of my foot. Are there any other brands out there you've tried or is Edea the best one so far?

Like Query, I'm far from an expert. I've just had enough experience with boot fittings and problems to make some suggestions. Like everyone else, I recommend talking to a good skate tech.

[FigureSpins]

I would love to hear thoughts and ideas from those of you who have experienced this pain and what you've done to help. Getting customs at this point is really not an option, but possibly something to consider in the future.

I've had that aching arch feeling and insoles were the solution for my high arches.  I used the arch supports LunarSkater mentioned (under my flatter insoles) and messed with moleskin to fine-tune them.  The Riedell R-Fit kit was good, but the forefoot wore thin under the first metatarsil, which changed my balance.

Try the Dr Scholls custom-fit insoles for high arches.  Might be a cheap solution.

In my experience, skate fitters typically say to try Superfeet Yellow, but I didn't like any of the Superfeet insoles (Yellow, Blue or Black) because the heel area would "sink" after I really warmed up during skating.  That led to my not having any feeling in my heels by the end of the skating session and it took almost an hour to get the feeling back.  (Didn't come back as pins-and-needles, either, which was wierd.

I currently wear a pair of "Tri-Balance Insoles" for support underneath the Superfeet Black insole with the plastic supports removed.  Works for me.
https://www.kroger.com/p/kroger-women-s-tri-balance-insoles/0004126033002

[FigureSpins]

Also, many people have mentioned that tying the skate more loosely across the top of the foot helps cut down on the pain, especially if you add a different insole that lifts your foot in that area.  Most skates have a limited boot height there, so pulling tightly crushes the foot.  One man used to actually skip a pair of eyelets in that spot; another person ties a half-knot below the looser area, to gain support without crushing her foot.

[_wonderland]

I so appreciate all the responses so far, thank you!

I think I've solved at least part of my problem, just by being vocal about this pain at my club session the other night. Another skater said she was just like me, exactly the same symptoms + pain, was in Edea and had to switch out for this reason, and so on. As it happens, we have the same street shoe size and foot shape, almost exactly, so I put her skates on and gave them a spin for 15 minutes or so. Zero pain! They are a half size smaller in length than the equivalent Edea size, and also a width wider in the toe than I would have guessed for myself. ZERO PAIN. ZERO.

So, needless to say, I'm not going to bother trying to eliminate the pain in my current boots - I don't think it's gonna happen, because no matter what support is in the arch, the extra length means my foot is likely not in the right spot to begin with. 

[masterblaster]

Very interesting, glad you got some useful feedback. Can I ask which boot your club member is in?

[_wonderland]

Very interesting, glad you got some useful feedback. Can I ask which boot your club member is in?

Jackson Supreme with a semi-custom split width, D-B.

[masterblaster]

thanks!

[Query]

A half size too large is within the range you could compensate for by modifying your insole, using a few pennies worth of tape.

In fact, that may mean there is plenty of space for you to play around with adding things like tape, or equivalently but more expensively, insole inserts.

But much bigger size difference than that, and you can still make the boot fit - but it would be way heavier than a smaller boot, and take a bit more playing around.

Maybe this is just me, but if the current fitter told you to get your current boots, I think you need a new fitter!

If you can afford it, and do get new boots, find the very best boot fitter you can, even if you have to drive half a day each way to get there, and even if they charge full price. And use the same fitter to make adjustments once the boots arrive. Asking around the rink can frequently get you good advice on what fitter to use.

BTW, Jackson boots are well known (along with Harlick) for having wider toeboxes, even in stock boots, than most brands. Edea are well known for having narrow toeboxes. And both are available in custom boots - though custom fitting really, really requires a first class fitter.

I have been really impressed by how many skaters fly half way around the world to be fit by a particular fitter they trust, sometimes paying more for travel costs than for the boots themselves. I hope you can do better than that. Approximately where do you live - maybe one of us can suggest a good fitter.

[tstop4me]

I think I've solved at least part of my problem, just by being vocal about this pain at my club session the other night. Another skater said she was just like me, exactly the same symptoms + pain, was in Edea and had to switch out for this reason, and so on. As it happens, we have the same street shoe size and foot shape, almost exactly, so I put her skates on and gave them a spin for 15 minutes or so. Zero pain! They are a half size smaller in length than the equivalent Edea size, and also a width wider in the toe than I would have guessed for myself. ZERO PAIN. ZERO.

A half size too large is within the range you could compensate for by modifying your insole, using a few pennies worth of tape. ...
Maybe this is just me, but if the current fitter told you to get your current boots, I think you need a new fitter!

<<Emphasis added.>>


Query, in this instance you can't conclude that the fitter screwed up and put the OP in boots that are a half-size too large.  The OP is comparing two completely different boots (stock Edea Ice Fly vs semi-custom Jackson Supreme).  Several years ago, I upgraded from an old pair of Riedell Royals to a new pair of Jackson Elite Suedes.  I have narrow heels relative to my toes.  In the Royals, my size was a 9N.  The Elites come stock as a split width, with the heel one width narrower than the toe.  The Elites also have a wider, rounder, and higher toebox than the Royals.  As a consequence, in the Elites, my size is an 8W. 

[Query]

in this instance you can't conclude that the fitter screwed up and put the OP in boots that are a half-size too large.  The OP is comparing two completely different boots

Whether or not I "can", I do. A good fitter would have taken into account the shapes and sizes of the feet and boots.

The fitter should also have talked to the skater after the skater tried the boots on. And looked at the feet after skating - e.g., if your feet slide around inside, it tends to leave marks on the feet, or maybe a redness. Especially if the customer complains the boots hurt, but even if they don't - a good fitter asks, and makes it clear the skater should talk to them if they aren't or don't remain comfortable and functional, and offers a money-back guarantee.

Is it fair to ask that of a glorified shoe salesperson? Yes! - when we pay them several hundred dollars or more for a pair of boots, it is very fair.

Returning to that person for anything more important than shoelaces would make no sense. Ill fit shoes aren't just uncomfortable - they are dangerous. They can and do cause injury.

Do you think I ask too much of fitters?

[LunarSkater]

You're assuming the fitter does every brand of skate. In my experience, a lot of them don't. My rink has different fitters for every single major brand because they all fit differently.

See - I'm not sure it's as much of an ill-fit issue as you think. I've been fit by an Edea tech. We went through four different sizes in two boots before concluding that the brand does not fit my feet. The reason we knew that? Because I went through a ton of drama trying to get fit in my current boots. I knew what kind of fit and support I need in skates. I could tell just from putting Edeas on that the brand wouldn't work. But for someone who is new to skating or returning to it as an adult, Edeas feel great upon first fitting. Supportive, comfortable, and the reputation that they'll mold to your feet as you break them in. And at that point, you don't know what you do and don't need. So you go with what feels comfortable.

[Query]

You're assuming the fitter does every brand of skate.

I assume the fitter knows the brand(s) he/she sells. And that they should have recognized there was a problem here.

If your rink has separate fitters for each brand, the shop must sell a lot of boots! For a fee, each of the major high end brands provides training, though it usually isn't cheap, and some fitters get trained by reps for all the brands they sell.

I agree that many skaters don't initially know how a skate should feel. So a fitter should try to explain that.

(Also granted, some people have insensitive feet, that cannot feel pressure or the heat or pain associated with incipient blisters and other sores - mostly diabetics, though I'm diabetic and don't have that problem yet. Incidentally, there are smart socks that measure pressure and temperature on various parts of the foot. See here, here, and here. They can even measure changes as the foot moves. I'm not sure smart socks are sold to the general public, what types are best, or if you can use them without a license or prescription. But it would be great if shoe and boot fitters, as well as individuals with fit problems, could use them.)

And of course you are right: some pains don't show up during the initial fitting, but take a few days to develop. For example, if the boot shape gradually creates a sprain or strain.

Even the best fitters can guess wrong, or order boots that don't fit they way they were specified.

So these are all good reasons why the fitter should tell the skater to feel free to call and/or come back if there are any problems, and that they will make it right. The skater shouldn't have to post messages on a board like this asking for help - the fitter should have made sure the skater already knows to call back if a problem develops. That the skater is posting here convinces me the fitter probably didn't tell the skater this. (I suppose it is possible the skater was told but didn't listen.)

Maybe I just expect more of fitters because I've met ones who do this sort of thing. Of course every fitter can't be one of the best. But, as with bad sharpeners, I would prefer if the ones who don't do a good job would leave the profession. Like medical malpractice. Sure, that's unfair. Most of the bad ones just weren't trained right. But a baddie who doesn't leave the profession isn't fair to the customers. And it makes no sense to me for a the skater who was misfit by a fitter who didn't offer and try to make it right to return to the same fitter to waste more money with them.

[FigureSpins]

Having actual experience in having many skaters (myself included) fitted for new boots, I can see how this can happen.  I had a student measured by Edea at US Nationals and I remarked that Edeas were not (at the time) good for wide feet.  The family double-checked with our local skater fitter, who agreed with me, but the family wanted that brand of skate for their own reasons.  The fitter confirmed the size with the Edea rep, measured herself and said "I think they're going to be too narrow, so Edea is putting you in a longer skate than I would recommend.

Long story short (too late) - the skater went back to Jacksons within a few months.  The Edeas were over an inch too long.

I don't see where the OP says someone fitted her for the boots.  Not sure if that means she/he was measured at all.  I have had many, many LTS students show up with internet purchased skates that are too soft, too big, too narrow, etc.  Guessing at sizing is an unfortunate side effect of not having stock to try on before purchasing.

As for the opinion that all fitters know all brands, that's not true.  The carrying costs alone force shops to select only a few brands of stock boots.  Other skate techs avoid brands that have quality issues or poor customer service.  Really good fitters will know what brand to recommend based on the skater's feet, but others tell the skaters to bend their knees more and live with poor fit and alignments.  The worst shops will recommend what they have in stock rather than what the skater really needs.  Some of that is greed, some is ignorance.  The worst is when people regurgitate things they've culled from more-knowledgeable people and pass themselves off as experts. 

I've used over a dozen different fitters in my forty years of skating/coaching and every single one of them has a weakness.  Every one has made a mistake.  What really matters is whether or not they admit mistakes and make good on their errors.


This sport is in dire trouble with FS knowledge dying out in the skate shop area.   

[_wonderland]

I don't see where the OP says someone fitted her for the boots.  Not sure if that means she/he was measured at all.  I have had many, many LTS students show up with internet purchased skates that are too soft, too big, too narrow, etc.  Guessing at sizing is an unfortunate side effect of not having stock to try on before purchasing.

Quoting you specifically to answer this question, but responding to every recent post! You're actually right in that I wasn't fitted prior to purchasing the boots. They were an Ebay find in fact, and at the time, I knew very little about them. My (first) mistake was assuming that a 255 Edea = a 255 Risport, which is the brand I've always skated in. I figured one Italian brand to the next was probably the same, so that's my own fault. What I did do right, however, is take them in to be both mounted correctly and heat shaped to my foot. Unfortunately, since I already had the boots and wasn't making a boot purchase, I didn't get a tracing and fitting for length. I remember being asked if they fit and saying yes, not really knowing any different because as far as I could tell, they seemed to fit fine. For what it's worth, this wasn't just any old fitter - this was w/ Josh @ SkatesUS.

Anyway, I got curious the other day and had some help tracing my foot and then I went to town on measurements and size charts for every brand I could think of. Turns out that a 255 in Risport is exactly right, but in an Edea, I'd need a 245 and no bigger than a 250 - at least according to charts based on raw measurements and fit "suggestions," the smaller being a tighter "competitive" fit vs. a roomier (or for growth) fit. Regardless of how accurate that is or isn't, I've learned my lesson re: purchasing a brand I'm unfamiliar with sight-unseen. Additionally, there's a very faint imprint on the Edea insoles (which I know are from me, even though the boots are used because I purchased new insoles when I went to SkatesUS) and it's pretty clear that there's an inch of extra space - the fit guides on Edea's website suggest no more than a few millimeters. So, at least for now, I'm taking that + measurements + size chart info as a relatively certain indication that the boots are too long, which would explain (at least partially) why none of the insoles I've tried have helped, and have actually made the arch pain worse. ALSO, I read somewhere that used Ice Flys aren't a good idea anyway, because the memory foam molds to the first person's foot and once it's packed down, that's it. If someone who knows can confirm or deny that, awesome.

Long story short, I found a one-in-a-million deal on an unworn pair of Risport RF2 Supers in my size and width on Ebay. Truly, they were so cheap that if they also don't end up working out, it's not a big deal because the purchase didn't cut into my boot-buying budget at all. I'm familiar with Risport, I know this size and model works for me, so I'm hoping for the best but keeping my expectations in check. The only issue I had before and can foresee having now is that the heel is too wide. When I was a kid, I didn't know that your heel wasn't supposed to lift on a camel.  Now, I know what to do to keep my heel down and am prepared for that. Other than that, I'm hopeful that this is my answer, at least for now. They don't make RF2 Supers anymore, and I'm guessing the equivalent is the RF1 line. I'll cross that bridge with a fitter in the future, if necessary. IF they don't work out - we have a reputable Jackson dealer locally who I will see for a semi-custom Supreme, which I'm relatively confident will suit my width needs too.

I so appreciate all the responses and insight, thanks so much! 

[Query]

Oh.... So no professional fitter is at fault. Sorry for my assumptions.

It is harder to order ice skates over the Internet than most normal shoes, because they are so stiff.

I wish boot makers would put pictures of each size insole on their websites, alongside a ruler so one can check it printed right. (Or more compactly - place the different sizes nested inside one another.) Then you could place your foot inside the picture of the insole, and see how closely it matched - along with appropriate directions. At one point, Riedell put a picture of their nested RENTAL boot insoles on a mat rinks could buy, and it was a great idea.

That's not enough for a perfect 3D fit, because the part of the boot above the insole matters too, people need different support, and because different people are comfortable with different amounts of heel lift and foot bend, but it would be a good first step, that would help a lot of people.

While I am imagining perfect worlds:

I would love an instant kit to make your own boots. Put your foot on a sheet, push a button, and it instantly wraps perfectly around your foot. If it isn't stiff enough, push a button, and it adds a little extra stiffening material. Etc.


The kit should also create and attach blades that perfectly match your requirements. I.E., use appropriate dial movements to vary parameters - e.g., length, lateral offset, ROH, main and spin rocker lengths, distance to toe pick, shape of toe pick... It instantly creates each requested blade shape. You try them until you are happy.

I leave it up to the engineers on this board to fill in all minor technical details...

[_wonderland]

Oh.... So no professional fitter is at fault. Sorry for my assumptions.

It is harder to order ice skates over the Internet than most normal shoes, because they are so stiff.

I wish boot makers would put pictures of each size insole on their websites, alongside a ruler so one can check it printed right. (Or more compactly - place the different sizes nested inside one another.) Then you could place your foot inside the picture of the insole, and see how closely it matched - along with appropriate directions. At one point, Riedell put a picture of their nested RENTAL boot insoles on a mat rinks could buy, and it was a great idea.

That's not enough for a perfect 3D fit, because the part of the boot above the insole matters too, people need different support, and because different people are comfortable with different amounts of heel lift and foot bend, but it would be a good first step, that would help a lot of people.

While I am imagining perfect worlds:

I would love an instant kit to make your own boots. Put your foot on a sheet, push a button, and it instantly wraps perfectly around your foot. If it isn't stiff enough, push a button, and it adds a little extra stiffening material. Etc.


The kit should also create and attach blades that perfectly match your requirements. I.E., use appropriate dial movements to vary parameters - e.g., length, lateral offset, ROH, main and spin rocker lengths, distance to toe pick, shape of toe pick... It instantly creates each requested blade shape. You try them until you are happy.

I leave it up to the engineers on this board to fill in all minor technical details...

No worries! I know the assumption (and preference) is that every skater gets fitted appropriately and purchases new, but that wasn't a reality for me at the time that I bought the Edeas. I'm actually in a much better situation time-wise and financially at this point in my life, where making arrangements to see a fitter and order something custom or semi-custom is a reality, should that end up being the necessary path. I do plan on skating seriously now and I have lofty goals of competition and of double gold medal-ing, so that is going to take lots of focus and pain-free practice. At the time that I posted the original post, I'd come back to skating ~seriously~ for two weeks only to discover that when I try to do anything remotely high-level, that pain in my arches is W I L D. In the two weeks since, I've cycled through the whole discovery process of finding the pain, trying to do any sort of superficial modification I could think of to alleviate it, to ultimately determining that what I'm experiencing can't be fixed in this way because the boots are just too big in one way and too small in another. 

SO, I'll be getting my RF2 Supers waterproofed and the new blades mounted and sharpened next week or so, when our trusted industry-leader friend returns from the US Champs in Detroit. Will update you all from there!

[Query]

At the time that I posted the original post, I'd come back to skating ~seriously~ for two weeks only to discover that when I try to do anything remotely high-level, that pain in my arches is W I L D. In the two weeks since, I've cycled through the whole discovery process of finding the pain, trying to do any sort of superficial modification I could think of to alleviate it, to ultimately determining that what I'm experiencing can't be fixed in this way because the boots are just too big in one way and too small in another.

It could be an injury... If you are already injured, you could be making it much worse. Plus, if you have "W I L D" pain, maybe you are creating an injury? If some part of your foot isn't being sufficiently supported, and/or some part of your foot is being stretched beyond safe limits, and/or if your foot is sliding around and smashing against parts of the boot, or a bursa sac is being overstressed, you could be seriously hurt.

It would only be a matter of a few minutes to trace out each insole on one or more pieces of cardboard (or buy a cheap dollar store or drug store insole), cut it to the same outline shape, and place underneath the insole, to push your foot up. And add a little tape wherever it feels necessary, by experiment. When you push the foot upwards, it moves into a part of the boot that is smaller, so you may fit. I wouldn't wait a week risking injury to do this. I still believe pain is one of the best indicators of what is not healthy, and that most athletics should feel wonderful, not painful. While some types of temporary pain are claimed to be good - a healthy amount muscle soreness after strength exercises, a little bit of pain during a stretch - immediate "W I L D pain" doesn't sound like either. It sounds like your body yelling at you to stop.

The wonderful thing is that you CAN feel the pain, which means your feet are not insensitive, so you CAN figure it out with just a little time. It is so easy and fast to experiment, that I don't understand why so few skaters are willing to try.

Anyway, I wish you luck and skill, on your return to figure skating.

[_wonderland]

It could be an injury... If you are already injured, you could be making it much worse. Plus, if you have "W I L D" pain, maybe you are creating an injury? If some part of your foot isn't being sufficiently supported, and/or some part of your foot is being stretched beyond safe limits, and/or if your foot is sliding around and smashing against parts of the boot, or a bursa sac is being overstressed, you could be seriously hurt.

It would only be a matter of a few minutes to trace out each insole on one or more pieces of cardboard (or buy a cheap dollar store or drug store insole), cut it to the same outline shape, and place underneath the insole, to push your foot up. And add a little tape wherever it feels necessary, by experiment. When you push the foot upwards, it moves into a part of the boot that is smaller, so you may fit. I wouldn't wait a week risking injury to do this. I still believe pain is one of the best indicators of what is not healthy, and that most athletics should feel wonderful, not painful. While some types of temporary pain are claimed to be good - a healthy amount muscle soreness after strength exercises, a little bit of pain during a stretch - immediate "W I L D pain" doesn't sound like either. It sounds like your body yelling at you to stop.

The wonderful thing is that you CAN feel the pain, which means your feet are not insensitive, so you CAN figure it out with just a little time. It is so easy and fast to experiment, that I don't understand why so few skaters are willing to try.

Anyway, I wish you luck and skill, on your return to figure skating.

I've ruled out an injury simply because I experience no pain whatsoever except when I'm skating, always within 10-15 mins of getting on the ice. It's definitely a cramping pain vs. a pulled pain, but severe enough that I cannot continue skating. I've tried absolutely everything - from taking the insoles out, to doubling them up, to putting cotton balls or wedges or gel arch supports underneath the insoles that came in the boots, to getting my feet scanned on one of those Dr. Scholls machines for "custom" fit insoles, to putting a Jackson Matrix insole in place of the Edea insoles. 

Within 30 seconds to a minute of my feet coming out of the skates, the pain disappears completely. Considering all the above and that the pain almost immediately goes away, the only conclusion I have is that the boots are too big and my arch is cramping up from pressure in the wrong spot. The fact that a foot tracing and measurements indicate that my boots are a size too big helps make that a little clearer too.

I think, at least for now, I've solved the initial problem I posted about. If I'm experiencing the same pain in boots that I know fit, the first thing I'll do is make an appointment with the podiatrist to rule out unknown injuries and look at other possible causes/solutions.

[Query]

I have no idea if this issue affects you, but I used to have pain mainly because the left-right tilt of the footbed of my boots didn't match the left-right tilt of the bottom of my feet.

I was using muscles on one side of each foot and leg to compensate for that tilt. Effectively I constantly overused those muscles, and my feet became sore. Not immediately (as with you), but after being on the ice for a while.

That part of my foot pain with those boots was quickly fixed by putting tape under the part of the insoles where my feet barely touched. (There were lots of other fit problems, like insufficient toebox width, and excessive heel height, and the failure of the fitter to punch out the boots near my heals, so my heels were the only place that touched on the sides, but this was the most immediate problem.)

That is an example of using tape to create support where it is needed.

It is entirely possible that the arch shape and height of the boots you like is much different from that of the ones you don't like, rather than it being just a size problem. In which case you could have similar issues, solved just as easily, by putting tape where it is needed.

But my past problem might also be completely different from your problem. You can experiment - if you are willing. But no one can diagnose you with certainty over the Internet.