Ice Dance Outfits

[kateskate]

Hi.  I am trying to find some costumes for an ice dancing pair to wear in a competition.  I want them to sort of match, you know the way the pairs skaters' outfits for the male and female are similar in fabric, color, bling, etc...   I've been searching on the Internet and I'm not having any luck.  Do any of you know of a website that would sell something like that? The selection of ice dance clothing seems to be very low, especially with men's attire.  Thank You. 

[Query]

This isn't the answer you want, and I'm not an expert on clothing, but a lot of seriously competitive female skaters that I have met get custom outfits, and spend a fair bit - while men often go with plainer clothing, put together from off-the-rack conservative wear (black jacket and pants) or off-the-shelf dance wear from dance wear stores and catalogs, especially at lower competition levels. Maybe it isn't that important that men be showy in their clothing?

If men's pants are tight enough, you may want something like a "dance belt" to keep things looking decent.

I can't imagine a serious ice dancing male in a Johnny Weir type costume, with lots of lace.

The closest I can imagine to the lady's equivalent would be something like a Scottish kilt - but the music better match. Also, there is some history suggesting that if you copy another ethnic group's characteristic costume, some people, possibly including ice skating judges, will be offended. In fact, some Scotts object to other people wearing plaids, especially plaids characteristic of specific clans. I can't figure out the rules on this: Lots of people have used broadway-style clothing, even if they aren't American. Similar with some of the older European styles, even if you aren't European. But if you imitate a smaller ethnic group, that seems to be considered improper. I wonder why?

It seems to me more important that the clothing match the musical theme and choreography - e.g., if you dance to Firebird, you better wear clothing to match, or if you dance to a ballroom theme, you need to match that.

Halloween costumes ARE available for men, and some are fairly fancy - but most of them don't come up to ice dance quality and tightness standards. Men's off-the-shelf ballroom dance outfits possibly do - but you would have to pick a lady's outfit to go with them, rather than the other way around.

Last Olympics' medal winners

  http://nickverrreos.blogspot.com/2018/02/ice-style2018-winter-olympics-figure_21.html

didn't perfectly match - they basically just picked tight dance fitting wear. That is going to look fairly similar, in terms of fit and fabric,  for everyone, and is widely available from dance supply houses The Shibutanis tried to match colors a little, but it seems like men wear black or sometimes just very dark, and possibly a little white, and women wear intense colors, sometimes picking up a little black and/or white trim. Women can also sometimes pick up a little black in the eye make-up.

The ISU also imposes a lot of rules that you must follow. Within the U.S., I think ISU rules still apply, but you'd have to check. Check the technical rules on the ISU site. Unfortunately, they also modify those rules in communications, that are much less organized. Keeping track of these things is one of the duties I would expect of a coach, and it is probably a good idea to consult with your coach for ideas.

At the very high end of competition and money, it is easy to search for pictures of high end custom-made ice dance costumes, e.g.,

  https://www.thecut.com/2018/02/olympics-figure-skating-costumes.html (ISU rules about costumes may have changed since that
    page came out, and it isn't authoritative.)

  http://nickverrreos.blogspot.com/2014/02/ice-stylefigure-skating-costumes.html

  https://www.cosmopolitan.com/style-beauty/fashion/advice/g3831/meryl-and-charlie-ice-dancing-costumes

  https://www.pinterest.com/BIRBwitaplan/pairice-dance-costumes (Pairs not Dance - but you can see some of the same ideas apply)

But that seems silly for lower end competitors, if that is what you are. But you can immediately see some things in those pictures- e.g., when women try to wear only black and white, it doesn't look good. When men don't wear black, or add tinsel, it just looks boring or wierd. (I guess men can wear a colored tie and still look good.)

(Of course, I am using American standards of dress. In some other countries, men routinely wear bright colors in formal dress - even pink.)

[kateskate]

Thank you so much for that info.  I am new to the ice dancing world and I am trying to help a couple find matching outfits.  I want to help them but I had no idea that it was going to be so hard!  I've found some black outfits for guys but to me it just seemed kind of boring!  I will look into the ballroom clothing for guys, as you suggested.  I didn't know that the outfits don't have to match.  I'm used to seeing stuff on the Olympics, that is custom made.  Thanks again for your help.   

[FigureSpins]

What level are they going to compete?

Most lower-level dance teams have the boys wear a tie or vest that coordinates with the girl's outfit.  Doesn't have to be an exact match - just pleasing to the eye.

One of my skating moms always buys her kids coordinating outfits.  The girl will wear a fancy blue dress and the boy has a collared shirt/leo with blue accents.
It's going to pay off this year, when they do their first duet.

[kateskate]

I don't know the name of the level but they are going to be doing the Dutch Waltz, maybe the Conasta Tango and Rhythm and Blues.  I'm not sure yet which ones but at least 1 of those 3.  They are both adults. I did think about the vest idea but I thought if I could find a shirt that matched her dress, it would be even better but I might have to look into a vest.  Thank You for your help!

[FigureSpins]

Dutch Waltz, Canasta Tango and Rhythm Blues are the lowest levels dances, so the outfitting is kept simple. It's really just dressy and coordinated.  You don't need rhinestones or custom outfits. 

The men's clothing should show the body line and avoid any (and all) flared pant legs.  (Toepicks get caught easily - form-fitting is better)  Colors should coordinate but don't have to match - think of dressy family photo outfits, not prom outfits.

Finding a men's shirt to match a lady's dress in adult sizes is difficult.  Custom is very expensive, though.  Menswear doesn't show up often in online resales - most parents make arrangements to buy skates/clothing from another boy's family at the rink who is a bigger/older. 

Facebook has consignment groups/pages like https://www.facebook.com/pg/simplyskatingconsign/posts/?ref=page_internal

You can also try Etsy.

[FigureSpins]

Do you already have your daughter's dress?  If you sew, or know someone who can sew, a vest or shirt can be made to match.

[kateskate]

Unfortunately, I don't sew.  These are for 2 adults that are my friends that I offered to help pick out outfits for them.  Neither one of them has one yet.  I'm thinking the best thing may be just to have the guy where a black shirt of some kind and then the lady can wear just about any color with that, except maybe a pastel color.  I'll check out the consignment link you gave me too.  Thanks for all of your help!  And thanks for the info about the pants.  I wouldn't have thought about the toe pick issue but that is a valid concern!

[Query]

Just to be clear, I don't really know the current rules. I am basing this on a web search of the ISU and USFSA websites:

I don't know if ISU high level competition rules apply to low level USFS tests and comps - perhaps not. I couldn't find the USFSA's rules on this sort of thing - perhaps people are just informally guided by ISU rules. There are some USFSA general guidelines for girls and boys at http://www.usfsa.org/content/BS-appropriate%20attire.pdf. (But perhaps those are just someone's general guidelines, not rules for competition. I don't think they are authoritative.)

If you buy someone else's old outfits, ISU rules about clothing keep changing. E.g., the amount of skin that is allowed to be shown (more of an issue with women's outfits then men's), and the use of sheer fabrics, have changed since a few years ago.

Rule 501 of https://www.isu.org/isu-statutes-constitution-regulations-technical/special-regulations-and-technical-rules/52-2016-special-regulation-sandp-and-ice-dance-and-technical-rules-sandp-and-id-final/file says

Rule 501

Clothing

1. At ISU Championships, the Olympic Winter Games and International Competitions, the clothing of the Competitors must be modest, dignified and appropriate for athletic competition – not garish or theatrical in design. Clothing may, however, reflect the character of the music chosen. The clothing must not give the effect of excessive nudity inappropriate for the discipline. Men must wear full length trousers and must not wear tights. In addition, in Ice Dance, Ladies must wear a skirt. Accessories and props are not permitted.

Clothing that does not adhere to these guidelines will be penalized by a deduction (see Rule 353, paragraph 1.n).

For Ice Dance, exceptions to the restrictions may be announced by the IDTC if appropriate to the Rhythms selected for the Short Dance.

2. The decorations on costumes must be non-detachable. Part of the costume or decoration falling on the ice will be penalized by a deduction (see Rule 353, paragraph 1.n).

Oops. The trousers-not-tights rule kills some of what I said about wearing off-the-shelf dance wear.

https://www.isu.org/communications-archives/568-isu-communication-2076/file says

The Rule 501 paragraph 1 applies with the following clarification for "excessive nudity" for the Short
Dance season 2017-2018:

- The costume for the Short Dance must be dignified and cover at least 40% of the Ladies upper
body.

Likewise http://www.usfsa.org/content/isu-ice-dance-qanda-2017-2018-no1.pdf says i part

When is the costume deduction applicable for the effect of excessive nudity?

Even sheer/transparent fabric which still gives the appearance of a natural skin tone nude look above the percentage allowed is not acceptable. (Costume restrictions per Communication 2076 and Rule 501 still apply. )

This is relevant, because typical ice dance lady's outfits of several years ago showed a lot more skin, and used fabric that looked like skin. So an older ice dance outfit might theoretically be unusable. (It also means lady's ice dance outfits for the 2018 Olympics were a lot less attractive, IMO, then outfits for earlier Olympics.)

In fact, a lot of the links I gave above included lady's outfits that wouldn't meet those rules.

For that ballroom dance lady's outfits often show a lot of skin and use transparent, translucent or skin-tone materials, especially for Latin dance. And ballroom dance outfits often look somewhat theatrical. So, if you use ballroom outfits, be selective, and tasteful. (But what is tasteful? Tasteful could be different for a formal ice dance in New England than for a beach in Rio De Janeiro.)

But for preliminary ice dance pattern dances like you mention, I bet you could go to a big thrift store (like Salvation army), and find reasonably dressy black men's clothing, and a reasonably colorful dress for ladies, very cheap.

Of course, some people like wearing nice clothing for special events like this, even if the judges don't force them too. Nice clothing probably doesn't hurt, and might help.

[Clarice]

I'm an adult ice dancer, and have competed with a partner through the Bronze level, so fairly low-level stuff. Generally the man wears his usual black skating pants and a regular dress shirt with a vest, tie, or other accessories that coordinate with the lady's dress. The low-level pattern dances are not so physically demanding that a special skating shirt is required. None of my partners has had issues with shirts untucking or anything like that. Teams I've seen compete in matching outfits generally were recycling synchro costumes. Personally, I'm not a fan of the matchy-matchy look. I generally like it best when the guy wears classic formalwear or all-black, depending on the dance.

[davincisop]

US IceWear is where I get my ice dance dresses from. I generally buy blank ones with an ice dance skirt attached and stone my own. She also has men's outfits. If you want them to match, you can request custom coloring and request custom stoning, or do the stoning yourself.

[kateskate]

Just to be clear, I don't really know the current rules. I am basing this on a web search of the ISU and USFSA websites:

I don't know if ISU high level competition rules apply to low level USFS tests and comps - perhaps not. I couldn't find the USFSA's rules on this sort of thing - perhaps people are just informally guided by ISU rules. There are some USFSA general guidelines for girls and boys at http://www.usfsa.org/content/BS-appropriate%20attire.pdf. (But perhaps those are just someone's general guidelines, not rules for competition. I don't think they are authoritative.)

If you buy someone else's old outfits, ISU rules about clothing keep changing. E.g., the amount of skin that is allowed to be shown (more of an issue with women's outfits then men's), and the use of sheer fabrics, have changed since a few years ago.

Rule 501 of https://www.isu.org/isu-statutes-constitution-regulations-technical/special-regulations-and-technical-rules/52-2016-special-regulation-sandp-and-ice-dance-and-technical-rules-sandp-and-id-final/file says

Oops. The trousers-not-tights rule kills some of what I said about wearing off-the-shelf dance wear.

https://www.isu.org/communications-archives/568-isu-communication-2076/file says

Likewise http://www.usfsa.org/content/isu-ice-dance-qanda-2017-2018-no1.pdf says i part

This is relevant, because typical ice dance lady's outfits of several years ago showed a lot more skin, and used fabric that looked like skin. So an older ice dance outfit might theoretically be unusable. (It also means lady's ice dance outfits for the 2018 Olympics were a lot less attractive, IMO, then outfits for earlier Olympics.)

In fact, a lot of the links I gave above included lady's outfits that wouldn't meet those rules.

For that ballroom dance lady's outfits often show a lot of skin and use transparent, translucent or skin-tone materials, especially for Latin dance. And ballroom dance outfits often look somewhat theatrical. So, if you use ballroom outfits, be selective, and tasteful. (But what is tasteful? Tasteful could be different for a formal ice dance in New England than for a beach in Rio De Janeiro.)

But for preliminary ice dance pattern dances like you mention, I bet you could go to a big thrift store (like Salvation army), and find reasonably dressy black men's clothing, and a reasonably colorful dress for ladies, very cheap.

Of course, some people like wearing nice clothing for special events like this, even if the judges don't force them too. Nice clothing probably doesn't hurt, and might help.

Thank you so much!  I didn't even think about the rules being an issue if they bought second hand items, so it's a great point!

[kateskate]

I'm an adult ice dancer, and have competed with a partner through the Bronze level, so fairly low-level stuff. Generally the man wears his usual black skating pants and a regular dress shirt with a vest, tie, or other accessories that coordinate with the lady's dress. The low-level pattern dances are not so physically demanding that a special skating shirt is required. None of my partners has had issues with shirts untucking or anything like that. Teams I've seen compete in matching outfits generally were recycling synchro costumes. Personally, I'm not a fan of the matchy-matchy look. I generally like it best when the guy wears classic formalwear or all-black, depending on the dance.

Yes, I think we're going to get him a black shirt and have a tie that matches her dress.  Thank you so much!

[kateskate]

US IceWear is where I get my ice dance dresses from. I generally buy blank ones with an ice dance skirt attached and stone my own. She also has men's outfits. If you want them to match, you can request custom coloring and request custom stoning, or do the stoning yourself.

I will be sure to check out their website.  I always like looking at custom options so that the skirt can be made dance length b/c there's just not a whole lot of choices out there as far as pre-made dance dresses....or at least not a lot of them that I like   Thanks for your help!

[FigureSpins]

Thank you so much!  I didn't even think about the rules being an issue if they bought second hand items, so it's a great point!

Don't get too caught up in ISU rules - they only affect international competitions.  The rulebook for your country's skating organization is what holds sway for tests and domestic competitions.  Most of the second hand items will be in compliance - the apparel rules don't change all that much and your coach should be consulted as well.

[Query]

Don't get too caught up in ISU rules - they only affect international competitions.  The rulebook for your country's skating organization is what holds sway for tests and domestic competitions.  Most of the second hand items will be in compliance - the apparel rules don't change all that much and your coach should be consulted as well.

I notice that in another post, the o.p. mentions dancing in the USFS[A].

In the U.S., the current rulebook is:

  http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/2018-19%20Rulebook.pdf

If we search that document for clothing, in connection with ice dance, we find:

8020 Clothing and Equipment – Ice Dance

8021 The clothing must be modest, dignified and appropriate for athletic competitions, not garish or theatrical in design. Clothing
may, however, reflect the character of the music chosen.

A. The skating clothing worn in actual competition may not bear any form of advertising. However, warm-up suits may bear
the name of a sponsor when the team is on the ice. The sponsor's name must not exceed 4.65 square inches (30 square
centimeters).

B. The clothing must not give the effect of excessive nudity inappropriate for the discipline.

C. Men must wear full-length trousers.

D. Ladies must wear a skirt.

E. Costumes of either partner must not have so much material or decoration that the body line of the skater cannot be seen.

F. Accessories and props are not permitted. Part of the costume cannot be used as a support in a dance lift.

G. The decorations on the costumes must be nondetachable, and no part of the costume or hair decoration such as flowers,
headbands, ribbons, etc. (which are also a part of a costume), may fall on the ice during skating.

8022 Not withstanding the above, adult ladies competing in any adult competition or testing any pattern dance test or free dance
test may wear trousers if they so choose.

8023 Skate blades: Figure skating blades used during competitions and tests (or hockey skate blades used during moves in the
field tests or moves in the field events at competitions) must be sharpened to produce a flat to concave cross section without
change to the width of the blade as measured between the two edges. However, a slight tapering or narrowing of the cross
section of the blade is permitted.

There are USFSA technical notifications at

  http://usfsa.org/story?id=84108

but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to search them as a group for clothing rules changes.

One obvious question is whether the clarification on the rule about "excessive nudity" has the same clarification under USFSA as under ISU - i.e., whether fabrics that are sheer or look like skin are included within that definition. If so, that might still affect the usability of some of the older costumes.

Also, as far as I can tell, from some of the other documents (e.g., judge's and official's handbooks, guidelines on calling...) on the USFSA site, costumes that break these rules aren't actually forbidden. E.g., you could dance wearing nothing. But there are point deductions for breaking them.

I suppose the rule against advertising marks might technically penalize any clothing which had the manufacturer's name externally visible at any scale. Except that almost all of the major figure skate makers put their names on boots, and the major blade makers put their names on blades, so perhaps the judges ignore that. (The ISU rules instead place a limit on the size of such marks.)

It seems to me that figure skating (both in the U.S., and in ISU) has too many rules, and that the documents are overly disorganized and impermanent. Would it be so terrible if everyone could wear whatever they pleased, and if the rules didn't change?