extracting screws

[Loops]

So, in the hopes of sporadic figures sessions this coming season, I have taken my freestyle blades off my boots, to replace them with my patch blades.  On one of the boots  the heads sheared off  two of the heel the screws (I mounted these myself, clearly very poorly).  I would be happy to consider these holes as "plugged" except that in both cases the screw shaft extends up above the surface of the heel.  So I'm not sure I can mount any other blades on that boot.

Any whiz-bang ideas on how to get the screw remains out?  My husband does have a pretty well equipped toy room workshop.

[tstop4me]

So, in the hopes of sporadic figures sessions this coming season, I have taken my freestyle blades off my boots, to replace them with my patch blades.  On one of the boots  the heads sheared off  two of the heel the screws (I mounted these myself, clearly very poorly).  I would be happy to consider these holes as "plugged" except that in both cases the screw shaft extends up above the surface of the heel.  So I'm not sure I can mount any other blades on that boot.

Any whiz-bang ideas on how to get the screw remains out?  My husband does have a pretty well equipped toy room workshop.

Depends on how much of the screw body is protruding.  First thing I would try is to grab it with a pair of pliers (sometimes a mini-vise-grips works best) and unscrew it (not yank it).  If there's not enough to grab, let us know.

[lutefisk]

Ditto what Tstop4me said.  If you have a soldering iron you might want to apply a little heat to the head of the screw before attempting to unscrew it with the vise-grips.  Have the vise-grips preset before applying the heat so that you can immediately grab the protruding shaft of the screw.  If the protruding bits are too short for vise-grips then I'd carefully file them down to the grade of the heel, without scuffing the leather.  As you get close to the leather you may want to trade the file for a coarse grade emery board for better control.  Another approach might be to use a Dremel tool fitted with a cut-off wheel.  Wear safety glasses if trying this last suggestion.

[Bill_S]

You've received two good replies so far. Small vise grips would be my first choice, then just making them flush using a Dremel or file would be next.

But, they must have been really poor quality screws to have the heads shear off in normal skating usage. Were they aluminum? I've seen aluminum screws supplied in boxes with new blades - ugh. For new screws, use much stronger stainless steel.

[tstop4me]

Note that you should file down or grind down the screws flush only as a last resort ... and only if you're sure you won't need to remount screws in those locations.  Once you file or grind down the screws, removing them will get a lot more complicated and require specialized tools.

If you have trouble grabbing the screws with mini-vise-grips, I have a further suggestion before you file or grind down the screws flush; but let's see if the easy option works first.

[lutefisk]

You've received two good replies so far. Small vise grips would be my first choice, then just making them flush using a Dremel or file would be next.

But, they must have been really poor quality screws to have the heads shear off in normal skating usage. Were they aluminum? I've seen aluminum screws supplied in boxes with new blades - ugh. For new screws, use much stronger stainless steel.

Bill:  I just switched blades to Ultima Legacy sevens this past weekend (wanted to see if a 7 foot rocker blade was easier/quieter to turn than the 8 foot rocker blades I've been staggering along with--jury is still out on that question, but it's early days; at least the change in rocker didn't feel immediately weird).  Anyway, my skate tech who is usually a big fan of Jackson showed me that the pan head screws which were provided with the blades, while being of a size which could be forced through the slotted holes, where too big in diameter to fit the slots properly thus making the slots useless for subtle tweaking of blade adjustment--and this from the manufacturer!  He (my skate tech) has to buy proper sized screws in order to get on with the job.  This size wobble doesn't even address the separate issue of metal quality.  One wonders if manufacturers care at all about their end-user customers!?

[tstop4me]

Bill:  I just switched blades to Ultima Legacy sevens this past weekend (wanted to see if a 7 foot rocker blade was easier/quieter to turn than the 8 foot rocker blades I've been staggering along with--jury is still out on that question, but it's early days; at least the change in rocker didn't feel immediately weird).  Anyway, my skate tech who is usually a big fan of Jackson showed me that the pan head screws which were provided with the blades, while being of a size which could be forced through the slotted holes, where too big in diameter to fit the slots properly thus making the slots useless for subtle tweaking of blade adjustment--and this from the manufacturer!  He (my skate tech) has to buy proper sized screws in order to get on with the job.  This size wobble doesn't even address the separate issue of metal quality.  One wonders if manufacturers care at all about their end-user customers!?

Yeah, I've bought Wilson Coronation Ace, Eclipse Aurora, and Paramount Freestyle blades (the last two in 440C stainless steel).  These are blades ranging from $200 to almost $600.  And guess what mounting screws are supplied with them?  Galvanized soft steel.  Good grief, high-grade stainless steel screws cost only a couple cents each when bought in bulk (unit price drops with larger quantity purchased).

[Loops]

Thanks guys, y'all are awesome!

FWIW the blades are Ultimas.  The heel screws were far less rusty than the short screws, so I'm thinking they are aluminum.  AND I did have trouble getting them in- was worried I'd nick the edge with the drill bit, and they were definitely in a wee bit askance.  BUT BUT BUT I am going to accept 100% user error on this.  I see my skate tech on Sunday (new skates arrived!!!!!) and will be requesting a mounting lesson, since he'll so rarely be able to do anything with my skates.

The screw shafts were exposed.  I showed them to my husband when he came home from work.  Mr Engineer always enjoys a problem- he had them out in 5 minutes flat, using a pair of pliers I didn't know existed.  For lack of better analogies, they have a tip that reminds me more of a snapping turtle's beak than that of an oystercatcher.  Obviously far more functional than the tools I tried.   

Now to go to the cobbler's to get the holes replugged.  And decide if I have enough space to schlepp this pair across the pond too, for proper mounting and alignment....

[tstop4me]

Thanks guys, y'all are awesome!

FWIW the blades are Ultimas.  The heel screws were far less rusty than the short screws, so I'm thinking they are aluminum.  AND I did have trouble getting them in- was worried I'd nick the edge with the drill bit, and they were definitely in a wee bit askance.  BUT BUT BUT I am going to accept 100% user error on this.  I see my skate tech on Sunday (new skates arrived!!!!!) and will be requesting a mounting lesson, since he'll so rarely be able to do anything with my skates.

The screw shafts were exposed.  I showed them to my husband when he came home from work.  Mr Engineer always enjoys a problem- he had them out in 5 minutes flat, using a pair of pliers I didn't know existed.  For lack of better analogies, they have a tip that reminds me more of a snapping turtle's beak than that of an oystercatcher.  Obviously far more functional than the tools I tried.   

Now to go to the cobbler's to get the holes replugged.  And decide if I have enough space to schlepp this pair across the pond too, for proper mounting and alignment....

Glad all worked out.  Not sure what it means that you asked us before asking your husband.   

When you get your holes plugged, you should get them permanently plugged so they can be redrilled for screw insertion at the same locations should those be the best places for your new blades.  Many shoe repair guys and skate techs simply pound a peg in;  OK for keeping out water, but not OK for remounting at or near the same spot.

[AgnesNitt]

I sent this thread to my skate tech. Here's his comment.

We're all screwed; it's just a question of how well. 


I use stainless steel, btw.

[FigureSpins]

There's a tool for everything ... including stripped screws.

https://www2.familyhandyman.com/tools/extract-a-broken-screw/view-all

[lutefisk]

There's a tool for everything ... including stripped screws.

https://www2.familyhandyman.com/tools/extract-a-broken-screw/view-all

The problem with screw extractors like the one above is that although they work ok on large diameter screws, bolts, etc. they generally aren't sized small enough for the screws used for attaching blades to boots.  Another type of broken screw extractor cores a hole around the broken fastener and removes it with the core of material it's embedded in.  The disadvantage with that type is that it leaves a large hole to plug.  Backing out the broken fastener with vise-grips is the best way if enough of the screw's shank is protruding.

[Query]

There are actually lots and lots of types of screw and bolt removal tools. It's very common that people need them. They might also come in handy if you run into a tamper-resistant screw or bolt, and don't have the "right" tool to remove it non-destructively. There are even special sets designed to handle small diameter screws.

For future reference, if you don't want to damage the screw further, or risk damaging the area around it, you can use an impact driver (an impact drill, or a hammer driven kit) with a screwdriver tip - preferably a hard steel tip, like https://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-screw-remover-and-quick-change-bit-set-95530.html. I've done this in the past.

If you are very careful, I guess you could just use a hammer with a stubby screwdriver, but you could easily hurt yourself.

Another way to do this is to use something like a dremel tool to grind a new slot up top, and fit a screwdriver into it.

I admit the only time I have sheared off the head of a screw is once when I did it on purpose, because it was too rusted to be useful for removal. I don't think that is all that common, but it was common enough that an electrician told me to do it, because he had done it before.

It's much more common to strip the head, especially if it is a phillips head, which I so hate. Then the way I suggest lets you continue to use the same screw in the future, because you are making a new slot or phillips pattern. Of course I wouldn't recommend that on the screw where you have sheared off the head! And of course, in skates, you can also strip the leather hole by over-tightening the screw - a real pain, but also dealable, in several different ways.

I eventually decided to buy good sets of high quality stainless steel screws for my skates. Bill Schneider previously gave recommendation on one brand at http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=59.msg4532#msg4532

BTW, I believe Jackson Ultima actually used soft aluminum bolts and nuts to hold the interchangeable runners on their Matrix I blades (no longer made), and made it worse by using a very small size (3 mm??) hex key to drive them. The nuts were also weird shaped, and had to be inserted into the blade holder insets in a very specific way - and that also eliminated the possibility of replacing them with good stainless steel equivalents. Because of these issues, the system, which was otherwise a great idea, was extremely trouble prone, as many of their users and their skate techs will attest. Lots of people stripped the hex key holes, and lots of people messed up the threads by putting the nuts on at the wrong angle. I still use them, but bought an extra set of nuts and bolts to use with them, just in case.

Are you sure the pans won't fit? Wobble is often caused when the screws aren't properly centered on the countersinks - meaning that the screws holes aren't quite the right distance from each other. If you use a "countersink center punch" that fits the countersinks, it can produce a mark that is precisely centered on each countersink. (e.g., I have used a "Stanley self-centering screw hole punch", that was $8 at a hardware store.) (Not on the hole! Depending on how the countersink is made, countersinks are often machined off-center from the hole. If you center on the hole, it won't work right.) If you really want to get fancy, you can then use a "drill guide" to drill the guide hole in at right angles to the mounting surface - but they cost about $20. Also - if you screw the screw in without drilling a guide hole first, it often goes in crooked, which also causes wobble. I'm sure your skate tech can show you this, though I doubt someone that experienced needs to bother with center punches or drill guides. I think it's mostly us newbies who need such things.

I met someone who skated in ice shows, which are frequently done on synthetic ice, which wears out blades fast. She had replaced the usual mounting system with one used in the roller skate world. I.e., she removed her insoles, and drilled the holes all the way through. She used bolts and very thin nuts. The nuts fit under the insoles - or maybe she drilled an inset into the midsole, so they didn't protrude. This way she could very quickly remove the bolts, and put in a new set of sharpened blades. (She had more than one pair.) I don't know how common it is in the show skating world - but if your ice skating tech doesn't have those ultra thin nuts, and you can't find any yourself, you could try a good roller skating tech. It's actually a very good, reliable system, that is unlikely to ever strip holes - but you probably want to make sure your blades are properly centered for your feet before drilling all the way through. (I think that is why ice skates don't normally use it. There is no easy way to offset blades from the way you drill.)

[Loops]

I sent this thread to my skate tech. Here's his comment.

Lol. Your tech and my tech are I believe, the same person....plus I recognize that snark. I'm sure I'll be getting an earful when I pick up my new skates this weekend.

[Loops]

Glad all worked out.  Not sure what it means that you asked us before asking your husband.   

You guys know skates (he doesn't) and patience is not one of my virtues  .  You guys had responded before he even got home!