Overengineering with a Skating-Track Mind

[Bill_S]

We joked that she would void her printer's warranty.  She never had a problem though, but she was careful. This was back in the early 90s when there were very few laser printers, and they were expensive.

Query - patterns are a good, proven method to replicate things. In the woodworking world, we do that all the time.

You are correct that metallurgy must be considered when attempting alternative production methods. I suspect 3D printing of any steel will make a soft material for many reasons, and that heat treating won't make it as good as a rolled steel for skate blades.

BTW, I'll bet that the toe picks are ground to shape with grinding wheels dressed to a point.

[tstop4me]

Shapeways prints in 420 SS according to their website (https://www.shapeways.com/materials/steel)so I guess theoretically, you can make blades, and maybe in a few years skate blades will be 3-D printed? That'll be interesting from a patent perspective and from a skating one too...would these even be skateable? Would sharpeners refuse to sharpen self-made blades because of liability?

If you read through the details of the Shapeways unit, you'll find that it won't fly for skate blades.  The 3D printing binds 420 SS particles with glue.  The printed product is then post-processed to replace the glue with infused bronze.  The final product then is a mix of 420 SS and bronze:

"This material is 3D printed 420 Stainless Steel infused with bronze, and has a final composition of approximately 60% steel and 40% bronze."

As produced, this material is not suitable for a skate blade.  And if you try to mechanically and thermally treat it, not sure what the resulting alloy composition would be.   

[tstop4me]

Figure spins - I don't know what is in the commercial glass etching gel, but it might be hexafluorosilicic acid. Nasty stuff!

Edit: I found that glass etching cream contains a different compound. "Glass etching cream is used by hobbyists as it is generally easier to use than acid. Available from art supply stores, it consists of fluoride compounds, such as hydrogen fluoride and sodium fluoride (which are still very dangerous). As the types of acids used in this process are extremely hazardous, abrasive methods have gained popularity."

If you have access to it, it's easy enough to try but be careful.

Hellotwizzles - 3-D printing is great for prototypes, but unless there's a compelling reason to use it, traditional production methods would be faster and cheaper.

I've used the glass-etching solution before, with gloves and eye protection.  It's really not difficult or dangerous to use.  I "frosted" our glass shower doors when we bought the house.  (DH has modesty issues and the full-length clear glass bugged him.)  The prepwork took more time than the processing/clean up.  Had to mask off all the areas you don't want to etch.  I used a roll of vinyl tape to make a few lines around the sides to make it interesting.


I can totally see me electrocuting myself with the other process, lol.

Once upon a time, I worked in R&D in the field of semiconductor materials.  I worked with a wide range of hazardous, toxic, and explosive chemicals ... some of which are mentioned in this thread.  Just because a chemical is sold for household or hobby use, doesn't necessarily mean it is harmless.  For example, hydrogen fluoride typically is supplied in an aqueous solution; an aqueous solution of hydrogen fluoride is otherwise known as hydrofluoric acid.  When I trained new technicians, I always cautioned them to be particularly careful with hydrofluoric acid.   Acids such as sulfuric, hydrochloric, and nitric burn like crazy if you get any on you ... so you know to immediately wash the affected area with plenty of water and seek treatment if needed.  Hydrofluoric doesn't ... so you don't realize immediately that you've contacted it; consequently, you don't wash it off, and you don't seek treatment ... until you notice your flesh rotting away.

Similarly, regardless of whether it's sold as lacquer thinner or nail polish remover, acetone is acetone, a hazardous volatile organic compound solvent.
   
So know the hazards of the chemicals you are handling, and observe proper safety precautions.

[Bill_S]

Thanks for the reminders about dangerous materials. It's important to keep in in mind when working.

I have a disappointing durability report to make about the laser print transfer method. My skate guard chafing the side of the blade and wiping the snow from my blade both took a toll on the checkerboard pattern that I started with.

It was going so well, but is not as promising as it first appeared. It doesn't really surprise me though. Looking on the bright side, the experiments were a learning exercise. That's R&D for you!

[skategeek]

We have more data than we did before.  I'd call that a successful experiment!

[tstop4me]

Thanks for the reminders about dangerous materials. It's important to keep in in mind when working.

I have a disappointing durability report to make about the laser print transfer method. My skate guard chafing the side of the blade and wiping the snow from my blade both took a toll on the checkerboard pattern that I started with.

It was going so well, but is not as promising as it first appeared. It doesn't really surprise me though. Looking on the bright side, the experiments were a learning exercise. That's R&D for you!

In a laser printer, the deposited toner is thermally fused.  You might try your solvent transfer technique on a scrap of steel and then blast it with a heat gun (I believe you have an industrial heat gun, not a wimpy hair dryer).  You'll need to play around with the temperature.  I know you know what you are doing, so you don't need this safety caveat, but for others out there:  acetone is highly flammable; so make sure not to turn on the heat gun if acetone vapors are still present, and store your acetone far away.

[nicklaszlo]

Yes, hydrofluoric acid (HF) is really dangerous.  I work with a lot of dangerous equipment and materials, and I would not use that.

Acetone is much less dangerous, but does tend to explode when heated.  And the flames are invisible when it catches fire.

[Query]

Obviously laser and inkjet printing is not 3D printing, so is a bit off topic, but:

I'm not surprised that laser printed material didn't last. Often doesn't last on wet paper.

Most ink jet printer inks are very water soluble, which probably isn't ideal for ice either. Some black ink cartridges are specifically made with non-water soluble ink, though I don't know if they adhere well to metal. (But see "DigiBond Primer - Enables Inkjet Printing on Metal, including Nameplates" at http://www.inkcups.com/equipment/industrial-uv-inkjet-printers/uv-led-industrial-inkjet-printer-conveyorized/Default.aspx, though I know nothing about it.)

Are metal engraving techniques very difficult? Lots of Youtube videos on it. Engraving looks very, very classy. (Look at old swords, or engraved musical instruments.) No doubt the acids are somewhat dangerous, so be careful. Engraving is virtually impossible to remove, so maybe practice on less expensive things like sheet steel and old blades first? But I don't see why you couldn't use a laser or inkjet printer to create a complex pattern on transparency material, then photo-etch it.

But it would probably be much easier to use adhesive metal foil (including for Cricut machines). Cut something out and stick it on the blades. Highly visible, and removable at will.

It's a real shame that some figure skating judges don't like colored blades. I think they are beautiful.

[tstop4me]

BTW, I've ignored metal-plating to avoid rust. I'm not sure if you need to plate stainless steel blades to avoid rust. If you do, plating it in such a way that it is even and symmetric, and grinding off the plate near the bottom (chrome relief) in a symmetric way, would be pretty hard too.

The stainless steel used in high-grade blades is ANSI/SAE 400 series or comparable.  Under normal rink and residential environments (no salt water, no corrosive chemicals), chrome plating is not needed to prevent rust.  Some manufacturers, such as Paramount, leave their stainless steel runners with a dull ground finish.  Other manufacturers have models (such as the Eclipse Aurora) in which the stainless steel is mirror polished to a shiny finish ... looks like chrome plate, but isn't.

[skategeek]

The rink I visited yesterday had a display of antique skates.  I took this picture just to post it on this thread.   

[tstop4me]

The rink I visited yesterday had a display of antique skates.  I took this picture just to post it on this thread.   

Yeah, it's incredible what the design ethic in the olden days was ... all that art work that is hidden during normal use.  Reminds me of the time I opened up the back of the pocket watch my grandpa left me.  Inside the watch was intricate and beautiful scrollwork, to be viewed and admired only by the people who first crafted the watch and by the people who then cleaned, maintained, and repaired the watch.  Eons removed from the ostentatious bling of Edeas.

[tstop4me]

The shiny, mirror surface of metal might present difficulties for hobby laser engravers such as I posted about above.

I don't know the limitations of hobby-grade laser etchers, but not a problem for commercial laser etchers.  Eclipse, e.g., mirror polishes some of their stainless steel blades (such as the Aurora) and laser etches patterns on the shiny surfaces (not sure off-hand what operating wavelengths are used, and what the absorption coefficients at those wavelengths are, even for a surface that is specularly reflective at visual wavelengths).

[Bill_S]

Yeah, it's incredible what the design ethic in the olden days was ... all that art work that is hidden during normal use.  Reminds me of the time I opened up the back of the pocket watch my grandpa left me.  Inside the watch was intricate and beautiful scrollwork, to be viewed and admired only by the people who first crafted the watch and by the people who then cleaned, maintained, and repaired the watch.  Eons removed from the ostentatious bling of Edeas.

It sounds like the pocket watch that my grandfather left for me...





It's too beautiful to use.

I'm guessing that the movement plates in this example were stamped with the pattern. The watch was engraved with the first owner's name and dated 1892. He passed it along to my grandfather who then left it to me in the 1970s. It still works even though it is 126 years old.