Overengineering with a Skating-Track Mind

[FigureSpins]

A friend of mine posted a photo on Facebook of her hand-blown artwork that she created herself at this high-end DIY art studio.  I think that's so cool - rather than sipping wine while painting a replica of a butterfly photo, she made a beautiful, Murano-like stemless wine glass.  So cool.

I looked at the studio's website and they mentioned that "artists" can also have access to a 3D printer.  I, of course, immediately thought "Hmmm...I wonder if I could print a pair of skate guards?"

I really have a one-track mind. 

If you could make anything yourself that's skating-related, what would it be?  (Doesn't have to use a 3D printer - any type of medium or equipment.) 
Would anyone want to make their own skating blades?  What would be special?

[Query]

BTW, I know someone who makes blade guards out of leather. Cuts a piece, folds it, then adds rivets and/or tinglets, along with elastic pieces to bind it to the blades. I had a pair for 2 or 3 years. Surprisingly durable, yet you can walk on them, if the leather is tough.

The 3D printers I have watched can be off by a mm or two. Maybe in part because they were made by other 3D printers that were off by a mm or two, but the whole plastic melting and fusing thing looks pretty iffy and hard to control. The plastic they use doesn't look all that strong either. (There are expensive 3D printers that use other materials, like metal and fiberglass, and maybe some have better accuracy, but I haven't seen them.)

I suspect the computer controlled (CNC) routers have better accuracy. One of my childhood friends recently made a guitar that way.

Anyway, boots! Just because I've thought a lot about making my own, even experimented a little. Maybe the only way to make boots that fit perfectly is to build them around your feet. But not something a 3D printer would be up to producing, in accuracy, or in materials.

Some custom shoes are made by using a laser profiling scanner, having a podiatrist to adjust the profile for desired corrections, and using something akin to a CNC router to build a custom last, around which the boots can be formed. I corresponded with one lady who had custom skates made that way, but the boot maker didn't know much about skates, and didn't make them stiff enough.

People have 3D printed kayaks, but it seems like a clumsy way to make them. But Chesapeake Lightcraft, a major wooden boat kit builder, uses CNC technology to cut out the parts for their kits.

Nonetheless - it also immediately occurred to me, upon seeing a 3D printer, that one ought to be able to use a 3D printer to create integrated circuits. Amorphous semiconductor rather than crystalline, not very small scale gates, and toxic dopants are probably an insoluble problem, but what a way to design a cool electronics kit. I picture using an inkjet printer with special ink cartridges.

I think that Jackson and Paramount use CNC laser cutters to make their blades. I was told by someone who  uses one that it could probably also be done using high pressure water cutting equipment. The investment in either would be pretty high. The hardest part might be tempering the blade, and re-hardening the edge. Metallurgy is a black art, and apparently requires a lot of knowledge, as well as expensive equipment. I wouldn't know where to begin.

I wonder how hard it is to do computer guided sewing - could you gals make a skating dress that way? I've seen computer controlled fabric cutters in a store... If it could be automated enough, I can picture some ice princesses making a new outfit for every skate. Maybe some custom dressmakers already do that?

[Bill_S]

I wonder how costly for the manufacturers it would be to offer custom decorative stanchions between blade and mounting plate? I'm thinking of art deco designs in particular, but they could be anything.

I know that CNC is capable, and is probably used more than you might think for skate blades. Back in the 80s I worked with a company that set up other firms with CNC capabilities. Here's a saw blade blank being cut by a laser. Computers have grown exponentially better since then.



It might be nice to pick from some pre-made designs, or work with an online app that lets you specify a stanchion design of your own.

[Note: A similar online app that comes to mind is the computer-cut openings in foam for carrying cases for telescope and photo gear. Take a look at MyCaseBuilder https://www.mycasebuilder.com/. Thinking about it, you could probably make fitted openings for a pair of skates in a custom case.]

I do a little woodworking, and have made some skate related things. The round skate drying rack is one item that comes to mind. Having access to a CNC router would make creating other shapes trivially simple.

EDIT: Here's one concept that I explored making traditionally - a USFSA badge-shaped rack. This never got made, but CNC would make this work easy.

[Bill_S]

There are laser attachments for existing CNC routers for around $500. A lot of well-equipped hobbyists have CNC routers already.

There are also dedicated laser engravers priced at a little under $4000, but a co-op could possibly manage. They attach to a PC to control them.

Here's one such engraver, and one of the videos at the link below shows it engraving designs into everything from cookies, rolling pins, front doors, glassware, paper, ...and boots!

http://www.rockler.com/full-spectrum-h-series-20-x-12-desktop-co2-laser-engraver-cutter

With this model, you can also turn up the power and have it cut thinner wood and acrylic shapes.

I knew that these existed, but never had a need to check into all that they can do. Now I want one.

[Steady as she goes, Bill. Remember that you are on a retiree's income.]

[Bill_S]

Back to the original question - what would you like done that's skating related.

I'd like to have my blades and stanchions engraved in a manner like this hand plane. Catherine Kennedy did this engraving.



It would be subtle bling.

Trouble is that the steel in blades is much harder than the cast iron or bronze found in most hand plane bodies. It might not be possible using traditional hand-engraving methods like Catherine uses. The shiny, mirror surface of metal might present difficulties for hobby laser engravers such as I posted about above.

[Query]

MK at https://www.mkblades.com/about-us says:

The finest steel is selected then CNC laser cut for supreme accuracy (within 0.004 inches)

(Gee, .004" sounds like a lot of error for a skate blade... Imagine if inside and outside edges were that different. A .004" bump might be noticeable too.)

3rd party sources say Riedell Eclipse blades are laser cut too.

The major skate blade manufacturers do not give a lot of details about how their blades are made or shaped. Don't they want other people to be able to make them too?

You might need a pretty strong laser to make figure skating blades.

But, when it comes to going overboard, I guess you could make boot drying racks with a CNC router.

Or use an ordinary plastic-melt 3D printer to make shims, to be placed between the blade mounting plate and the boot bottom.

Or custom insoles.

I've got somewhere a keychain toy that looks like skates. That would be a nice low precision piece even a cheap 3D printer could do.

Or a bit bigger skates you could hang from your car mirror?

When it comes to blade guards - most blade guards are too common. Everyone can buy one that looks like a teddy bear, etc. Perhaps a 3D printer could be used to sculpt one that was more unique?

How about unique trophies?

How about a negative mold for an ice sculpture, of a skater or skating couple in an interesting pose? Or - ice cube trays that make interesting skate-related shaped ice cubes?

BTW, cheap 3D printers create fairly rough surfaces. You can smooth them out using sanding and polishing techniques like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vgynnYzo08

That video gives me a really silly idea. He shows a 3D-printer-made quad-copter. How about a quad copter that flies over you as you skate, and takes aerial videos?

A helmet that fits your head? While you are at it, sculpt an interesting shape on top of it. Knee, elbow and shin guards? (On the practical side, the materials the 3D printer can handle are likely to be sub-optimal from a safety perspective, and you probably still need foam padding.)

But I admit none of these things absolutely have to be made this way, and few are critically essential to skating.

When it comes right down to it, do some people who are into fine crafts think 3D printers are cheating?

[Bill_S]

When it comes right down to it, do some people who are into fine crafts think 3D printers are cheating?

Yes, and even CNC woodworking is begrudged. Ten years prior, such things were not available to mere mortals, and yet we made nice things.

CNC saves time and the planning of sequential fabrication steps, but one can still get along fine without CNC. Online, there seems to be a growing chorus of people who think that they MUST have a CNC router to do anything even mildly complex. That ruffles me a bit.

BTW, 0.004" tolerance for metal parts is very respectable. It's about the thickness of a human hair. The working end of a blade is ground  afterwards, and that will smooth out any local anomalies.

[FigureSpins]

Back to the original question - what would you like done that's skating related.

I'd like to have my blades and stanchions engraved in a manner like this hand plane. Catherine Kennedy did this engraving.



It would be subtle bling.

Trouble is that the steel in blades is much harder than the cast iron or bronze found in most hand plane bodies. It might not be possible using traditional hand-engraving methods like Catherine uses. The shiny, mirror surface of metal might present difficulties for hobby laser engravers such as I posted about above.

I like that, though!  Would painting/decals work, as trompe l'oeil?

[Bill_S]

It should work for a while. It wouldn't be very durable though.

[Bill_S]

I just tried a quick experiment and made a "decal" from a laser printout. I used lacquer thinner to transfer the toner to the blade. Lacquer thinner is mostly acetone - a strong solvent.



I taped the strip of laser printout (face down) onto the blade to prevent motion. I could have done better holding it stationary, but this was just proof of concept. Using a paper towel wetted with the solvent, I dampened the back of the printout, then ran the blade of a putty knife over the paper to apply a bit of pressure. I used protective gloves to minimize hand contact with the solvent.

Because there are some voids, this might work best with some more organic patterns instead of the bold racing checker pattern that I made. It doesn't rub off easily after the solvent dries, but I didn't bear down on it.

There are possibilities here. Want your signature on your blade? No problem. Scan it in, print it out mirror imaged, and use the solvent to transfer it to the blade. You can transfer the toner to other items too.

While I didn't try, I'm sure that you could remove the transfer with a cloth wetted with the solvent to try a different pattern. Or color.

[skategeek]

Very cool!  I wonder whether nail polish remover (also acetone) would work as well.  I suspect more skaters would have that on hand.  But I don't know the concentration, compared to what's in lacquer thinner.

[Bill_S]

It would be easy enough to try using nail polish remover.

FWIW, I just checked the lacquer thinner for percentages, but none are given. It's readily available at most hardware stores. Not sure about California though (CARB regs).

[FigureSpins]

You are the coolest of the cool, Bill!  A true problem-solving engineer!

I happen to own a Cricut machine that cuts out a variety of things.  I could make a stencil (or two) for a design to decorate my blades.

I wonder if the glass etching gel sold at craft stores would work on chrome?

[hellotwizzles]

Shapeways prints in 420 SS according to their website (https://www.shapeways.com/materials/steel)so I guess theoretically, you can make blades, and maybe in a few years skate blades will be 3-D printed? That'll be interesting from a patent perspective and from a skating one too...would these even be skateable? Would sharpeners refuse to sharpen self-made blades because of liability?

[Bill_S]

Figure spins - I don't know what is in the commercial glass etching gel, but it might be hexafluorosilicic acid. Nasty stuff!

Edit: I found that glass etching cream contains a different compound. "Glass etching cream is used by hobbyists as it is generally easier to use than acid. Available from art supply stores, it consists of fluoride compounds, such as hydrogen fluoride and sodium fluoride (which are still very dangerous). As the types of acids used in this process are extremely hazardous, abrasive methods have gained popularity."

If you have access to it, it's easy enough to try but be careful.

Hellotwizzles - 3-D printing is great for prototypes, but unless there's a compelling reason to use it, traditional production methods would be faster and cheaper.

[Bill_S]

Digging further, I see other ways to approach this - here's a video showing a fellow using a battery charger and some chemicals with stencils for etching chrome. The video shows etching chrome sockets and tools but could be used easily with skate blades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGtDz_rGgs8

[FigureSpins]

I've used the glass-etching solution before, with gloves and eye protection.  It's really not difficult or dangerous to use.  I "frosted" our glass shower doors when we bought the house.  (DH has modesty issues and the full-length clear glass bugged him.)  The prepwork took more time than the processing/clean up.  Had to mask off all the areas you don't want to etch.  I used a roll of vinyl tape to make a few lines around the sides to make it interesting.


I can totally see me electrocuting myself with the other process, lol.

[skategeek]

I'm still stuck on this whole laser printer-acetone concept.  If that works for color laser printing just imagine the possibilities.  Like temporary tattoos for your blades.  (I'm thinking hot rod flames, personally.)

[Bill_S]

I just experimented with color, and I'm finding the limitations of this method for skate blades. Solid color areas are faint. The colors in detailed color images like Skategeek's avatar run together, making it an unreadable smudge on the blade. I should have known given the nature of halftone reproduction.

Here's a red flame in just one color. You can see that the image transferred is faint.



It's even less visible than the photo shows without the white background there, so...

...doggone it!

Stick with black, and use bold shapes for the best results.

[FigureSpins]

Try printing it with maximum color saturation, like t-shirt transfers would require.  Or, print the page twice using the same sheet of paper.
That puts more toner into the paper.

Would an inkjet printer work better than a laserjet?

Subtle images on blades are probably best anyway.  Some judges don't like colored blades.

[Bill_S]

I don't know how well an inkjet would perform. There are some iron-on papers for them, but I don't own an inkjet. I don't know how well they would transfer to metal though. That's a difficult substrate to work with. Materials with "tooth" like fabric and wood would work better. I know that the acetone method with a laser printer works better with wood.

I once knew a woman who used to laser print directly onto cotton fabric for use for her quilts. She'd iron a piece of cotton onto waxed freezer paper to provide enough stiffness to get it through the laser printer. After printing she would then remove the paper backing somehow. (Re-heating? I can't remember even though we worked together for a quilting magazine story. I was the photographer.)

She'd then sew the pieces together and have her quilt with shapes and images that she created in CorelDRAW.

All this was before thermal transfer paper was invented, so it's probably different today.

[Query]

I guess making a stencil, and painting through it onto the blade with enamel paint (or other metal-ready paint) would be strictly old tech for this thread.

Even if you printed the stencil first with your printer, and then cut it with a knife.

Unless you used your Cricut machine (or equivalent) to cut the stencil - can they do that? I guess you could 3D print a stencil too.

I love the gold paints (which use some real gold, BTW) used on some musical instruments.

They would definitely show. But the artwork would be very hard to get rid of if you didn't like it.

A note of care: ISU (and member organizations, like USFSA) ban "manufacturer's marks" over a certain size. If you modify a blade by adding a pattern, are you a second order manufacturer?

When it comes to 3D printing blades, I don't think cutting that is the hardest part. After all, you can cut the metal to shape with some saws, maybe even some heavy duty band saws and scroll saws, with metal-cutting blades. You could use a printer to print the desired shape on a stick-on label, stick it to the metal, and follow the shape.

(BTW, there are CNC scroll saws... Perhaps they COULD do the whole thing automatically? They are also much more expensive than consumer market 3D printers. But... there are machine shops where you can rent equipment time. I wonder if they have something like that.)

It's the metallurgy that I'm guessing is really hard. Any top quality steel skate blade is tempered, so the main part of it isn't as brittle - then the edge is re-hardened so it doesn't wear out too fast. If I understand correctly, blacksmiths do tempering and hardening at red-hot temperatures, which are much to hot for most of us to risk handling. There are electrochemical means too, which one person I met said was used for MK/Wilson blades - but I think that requires pretty high end equipment, and a lot of specialized knowledge. There are physical pounding and bending techniques to temper and harden, but I'm not sure they would leave a very smooth blade.

People make cheap blades without the fine metallurgy - you see them on the rental skates and other cheap skates that include blades. But I assume they don't hold edges very well, or wouldn't take high jumps very well, especially if you landed wrong.

Am I wrong? Is there a cheap easy way to do the metallurgy?

[Query]

Wait - there may be a much better way to shape blades.

Many skate sharpening machines - including some (all?) of the Blademaster machines - are designed to be able to follow templates. It's done a lot with hockey skates.

Don't 3D print the blade - 3D print or CNC cut or route a template! Have your skate tech use it to shape the blade.

BTW, I've ignored metal-plating to avoid rust. I'm not sure if you need to plate stainless steel blades to avoid rust. If you do, plating it in such a way that it is even and symmetric, and grinding off the plate near the bottom (chrome relief) in a symmetric way, would be pretty hard too.

But I think you still need something like a saw to cut the toe picks. And you have to attach the runner to mounting plates (I still like some of the hockey style mounts where bolts are used to hold the runners in mounts; or you could pick up used pairs of the Ultima Matrix I chassis and blades).

Unless - you start with previous blades that you are just modifying. In that case, as long as your shape isn't TOO different, you can use the blades' original metallurgy, mounting, plating, chrome relief and toe picks.

Mike Cunningham (a skate tech) once told me he would love to be able to buy high quality blanks, that he could grind to a somewhat custom shape. He even has an MK figure skating template (no longer available) that he has sometimes used to restore the rocker profiles.

[FigureSpins]

That's fascinating - never thought to put fabric through a laser printer.  I'd be afraid of it getting stuck somewhere.  I bought Shrinky-Dink transfer sheets that can be put through an ink-jet printer but our old one didn't have a straight pass-through, so I didn't try. 

[Query]

Don't know if this helps, but if you are worried about harming your printer, people sometimes give away their old printers, on Freecycle.