What's a good blade to transition to (from Coronation Ace)?

[icegal123]

I'm thinking of getting new blades and was wondering what's a good blade to transition to after the Coronation Ace? I've got all my single jumps and starting to learn doubles now. I'm an adult skater so don't have to worry about outgrowing the blades and I'm not overly concerned about the cost of upgrading either

Let me know whether you have transitioned to another blade after using Coronation Aces, and whether you had any issues adjusting to them!

[FigureSpins]

I moved one of my skaters (who was doing axels and starting doubles) from CorAce to Pattern 99's - he loved the change for his jumps. Didn't see any impact on spins but his Moves and Dance became more stable.  Note that he almost doubled his on-ice practices and lessons, which definitely fed the notable improvements.

Another skater was on the Ultima clone of CorAce, which had an 8' rocker that wasn't working for her - jumps were solid, spins were okay, Moves were mediocre.  (Although the latter was probably due to knee bend and posture issues.)  I switched her to an MK Phantom because of the 7' rocker.  Spins instantly became more stable: she did a beautiful catch-foot backspin in her holiday show program.  Jumps were better but the edging didn't really improve.  Unlike the skater above, she cut back on her ice time (due to other committments) so I would attribute the footwork issue to lack of practice and conditioning moreso than the blade itself.

That leads me to believe that, in some cases, blade changes have a placebo effect: skaters who get "high end blades" tend to increase their workouts, which feeds the idea that the blades caused the improvement.  If the old blades were worn out or damaged, replacing them with anything good will help, but in many cases, it inspires them to work harder and longer.  More ice time can overcome blade limitations.

Spins are the main criteria I use to make suggestions because the shorter rocker helps the skater with entering/holding a spin and makes edge jump takeoffs easier. 

If you have solid spins and jumps:  JW Pattern 99, JW Gold Seal (8' rockers.) 
If your spins aren't solid: MK Phantom, MK Gold Star (7' rockers)

[Bill_S]

That's one of the best answers that I've read about changing blades. It addresses factors that should be considered based upon the particular skater. That's often overlooked.

+GOE!

[FigureSpins]

TY. I like to share my knowledge.  Thank you for all you contribute to our community. 

[Sibelius]

Thank you.  My skater is working on her Axel now, and her spins improved markedly (and rather quickly) after we moved from the stock Mirage blade on her Elle's to the Eclipse CA clone (with a 7' rocker).  I can't say she increased her practice time, so I'll attribute her improvements to the new better blade.  I was starting to think about what's next and that gives me a good place to start.

[FigureSpins]

I liked the Eclipse blades because they do have different rockers, unlike Ultima, which are all 8' rockers.  I prefer to have a choice in rocker.

[lutefisk]

If you have solid spins and jumps:  JW Pattern 99, JW Gold Seal (8' rockers.) 
If your spins aren't solid: MK Phantom, MK Gold Star (7' rockers)

I've  been wondering if a blade with a 7 foot rocker like the Phantom would improve my foot work and Mohawk turns. I'm currently on Ultima aspire blades--8 foot rocker.  In theory a 7 foot rocker should be easier to turn (but less forgiving) than a blade with an 8 foot rocker.  I take ice dance lessons so I don't jump or spin much.  I'm reluctant to move to a dance blade because of the short tails--I have visions of falling backwards off those short tails.  If I make the switch, I'm thinking that the twitchiness of the 7 foot rocker will be enough to deal with.  One variable at a time!  Out of curiosity, what rocker is used for patch blades?

[FigureSpins]

Out of curiosity, what rocker is used for patch blades?

My Silver Test patch blades are 7'.  Years ago, I posted a blade comparison chart here: http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=2087.msg19733#msg19733

Patch blades range from 7' to 8' to 8.5' rocker radii.

[tstop4me]

If you have solid spins and jumps:  JW Pattern 99, JW Gold Seal (8' rockers.) 
If your spins aren't solid: MK Phantom, MK Gold Star (7' rockers)

Yes, thanks for your insights.  Two follow-up questions.

(1) The Gold Seal and the Pattern 99 have significant design differences (e.g., spin rocker, pick design, and stanchion height).  Do you have some criteria for determining which is the better choice for a particular skater now on an intermediate blade, such as Coronation Ace?  These are pricey blades, so it's not a simple matter of trying out both.

(2)  For skaters that you move to Phantom or Gold Star, do you then later move them to a Gold Seal or Pattern 99 when their spins become more solid?  Or do you keep them on the Phantom or Gold Star?

[Isk8NYC]

I would suggest Phantom blade-wearers move to either Patt 99 or Gold Seal IF I felt the blade was an issue.  I know several professional skaters who can do doubles and triples in Phantoms.  MK says that's what Patrick Chan wears.  https://www.mkblades.com/hall-of-fame

The adage of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to apply in this case.  I would suggest moving up if they were having difficulties finding the toe pick on flying-entrance jumps or holding the landing edge on triples.  My Patt 99 skater got a great deal on those blades, so I couldn't complain.  (Trust me, I am pretty vocal about pushing high-end items on skaters.)

The choice between Patt 99 and Gold Seal depends on the skater.  The higher stanchions of the Gold Seal mean taller skaters are even taller, so that has an impact on their body lean and comfort. 

For small/weaker skaters, the solid sole plate of the Gold Seal is heavy.  You can get around that by going to Revolutions or a lightweight clone.
If they have sloppy toe-ins on jumps, Pattern 99 - it's more forgiving due to the large top/bottom toe picks.
If they tend to bobble their landings, Gold Seal - the longer blade tail provides stable landing run outs.
If they're on MK Pros, which have lower stanchions, the Patt 99 adjustment is easier.

From personal experience in switching back-and-forth between Patt 99 and Gold Seal, the blade tail made a huge difference.  I often "rocked off" the shorter tail of the Patt 99's.  The toepicks were awesome for flying spins and pivots.

[Doubletoe]

IceGal23, my recommendation would depend on how flattened out your Coronation Ace blades are, and how you feel about your spin rocker and jump takeoffs. 

If your Coronation Aces are pretty flattened out due to being sharpened down and you don't want to make the adjustment to a really round, full spinning rocker, then I'd suggest the Pattern 99 profile, which has a more gradual rocker.  This rocker shape also tends to give you more distance than height on edge jumps, since you reach the bottom pick sooner on takeoff.  If you go into your edge jumps with lots of speed, this might feel better to you.

If you want a rocker that is rounder right behind the toepick--desirable for spinning and for getting more height on edge jump takeoffs--I'd recommend the Gold Seal profile. 

Both the Pattern 99 and Gold Seal have an 8' rocker radius, while the Coronation Ace has a 7' rocker radius.  The rocker radius only comes into play on the back 2/3 of the blade, since the front of the blade is going to vary based on its particular rocker profile.  When you go from a 7' blade to an 8' blade, what you will notice is that the blade is flatter from the middle to the heel.  That's desirable for added speed on the ice, as well as more stability on jump landings.  It will, however, require that you adjust to where you put your weight on the blade when skating backward.  You'll need to get used to putting your weight farther back (pulling back with your back shoulder and pressing the heel down).  Having switched from 7' to 8', I'd never go back now.

[Live2Sk8]

This is so interesting.  What would you recommend to a skater who is using MK Professional (7') and needs new blades?  Bronze level skater, probably better at spins (good at centering) than jumps.  Not a speedy skater.

[icegal123]

Thanks for all your replies.

(1) The Gold Seal and the Pattern 99 have significant design differences (e.g., spin rocker, pick design, and stanchion height).  Do you have some criteria for determining which is the better choice for a particular skater now on an intermediate blade, such as Coronation Ace?  These are pricey blades, so it's not a simple matter of trying out both.

Now this is something I'd like to know as well. I'm now leaning towards JW Gold Seals or Pattern 99s, but not sure which one would be better for my skating - it seems people have a split 50/50 preference on them!

I would say my spins are pretty solid. They're not always centred but that's mostly due to my technique and posture than my boot/blades. I find edge jumps a lot easier and struggle with the toe jumps. Landings have always been stable though. And then footwork is where I struggle the most...but that could also be because I practice it the least (whoopsies! haha)

If anyone has any suggestions for me, it'd be very appreciated

[TropicalSk8ter]

Thanks for all your replies.

Now this is something I'd like to know as well. I'm now leaning towards JW Gold Seals or Pattern 99s, but not sure which one would be better for my skating - it seems people have a split 50/50 preference on them!

I would say my spins are pretty solid. They're not always centred but that's mostly due to my technique and posture than my boot/blades. I find edge jumps a lot easier and struggle with the toe jumps. Landings have always been stable though. And then footwork is where I struggle the most...but that could also be because I practice it the least (whoopsies! haha)

If anyone has any suggestions for me, it'd be very appreciated

I think you should go with p99 if you struggle more with toe jumps; Because of the top tapered toe pick, it really compensates for unprecise or messy toe-ins and will really help you have explosive toe jumps. I love p99s!

[Doubletoe]

This is so interesting.  What would you recommend to a skater who is using MK Professional (7') and needs new blades?  Bronze level skater, probably better at spins (good at centering) than jumps.  Not a speedy skater.

Until you've passed Adult Gold moves-in-the-field, you are probably not going to have the skating skills to benefit from the 8' blade and it may be more difficult for you to skate on.  I'd stick with the MK Professional, and if you are absolutely dying to "upgrade" and spend more money, then get the MK Gold Star.  It is exactly like the Gold Seal in terms of rocker profile, but it is a 7' radius, not 8'.  In terms of rocker profile, it is a very easy transition from the MK Pro, but the Gold Stars are side-honed, just like the Gold Seals, which means they are designed to cut into the ice at an angle, which only works if you skate on deep edges with some lean, not "on top of the ice". So, again, you may still do better on MK Pros until your skating skills have progressed a little.  I went MK Pro to MK Gold Star and eventually to Wilson Gold Seal.

[Live2Sk8]

Thank you so very much, Doubletoe!  I really appreciate the advice.  I wish there were a magic blade to transform our skating!  I work really hard but have a lot of fear.