Custom boots

[tstop4me]

In theory, custom boots should provide the best fit for a skater's feet.  In practice, many things can go wrong, with the fitting or the manufacturing.  Off and on, I read horror stories posted.  But, of course, people tend to post when they're ticked, rather than pleased.  So, I'd like to take a comprehensive survey. 

I've limited the number of options in the poll, but the following information, along with the information requested in the options, would be useful in individual responses:

(1) What was the make and model of the boot?

(2) If you had to send them back, how many times did you have to send them back? 

(3) If you've ordered custom boots more than once, please report individual experiences.

[Loops]

I'm curious about these results as well.  Tstopforme, can you add a 5 option though for those of us who have never had customs?  You have to vote to see the poll results.....

[AgnesNitt]

I had two pair full custom harlicks.

The first pair gave me trouble and I stopped skating in them, but kept them. A year later my coach gave me a fitting tip, and I was able to skate in them comfortably. Lesson learned: try every fitting tip you can find before you give up on a pair of boots.

I then tracked down Phil's schedule on the Harlicks website to a roller competition where he was doing fittings. I got fitted by him for a second pair and he pointed out I needed wider boot tongue (I have ankles like a bull) and this made a tremendous difference in my skating. This custom pair came with the right boot too wide. Although I could fit it to skate in, I knew it would stretch so much that I couldn't fit it with the stretch. I sent it back to them to be rebuilt and I've skated on them ever since.

Boot fitting is an art, not a science. I've been told that even stock boots are different for the same size.

My recommendation is to try superfitting your boots before giving up on them. Sometimes a little piece of leather behind the tongue. or customizing your insoles, or using an extra sock can make all the difference. Feet are different too, I superfit my boots differently, the left is different than the right.

If the boots are in a half size range of my feet, I can fit them to skate in. Too short or too wide, those are problematic.   But there's a huge amount of stuff you can do to in order to make them 'cling' to your feet if they aren't the level of perfection out of the box. 

[tstop4me]

I'm curious about these results as well.  Tstopforme, can you add a 5 option though for those of us who have never had customs?  You have to vote to see the poll results.....

I've changed the poll settings so that the results are visible without voting.

[icepixie]

I'll vote once my custom boot story has an ending.  They came to me too big and are currently back at SP-Teri being relasted to be shorter and narrower at the heel.  The width at the front was fine, and they accommodated this fatty bulge on the outside of my feet just behind the ball well.

Originally they said they could only make them shorter if they also made the toe and the ball narrower as well, but I called bs on that and got my sales rep/coach to do the same, so now they're supposedly making them shorter and tightening the heel, but keeping the ball and toe the same width.  Hopefully they're perfect when I get them back next week-ish.

[sk8lady]

I have had custom Harlicks for about 12 years. I developed an impacted callus on the ball of my left foot after I'd been wearing them a while. My podiatrist made me an orthotic and they've been pretty good since, although I have to keep an eye on the callus on the ball of my right foot! They're just barely starting to break down a teensy bit, but the foam padding is wearing out and falling off, and the exterior leather looks pretty beat up. I don't intend to get new boots any time real soon.

[Clarice]

I have custom SPTeri dance boots. They required a little extra punching out to accommodate my bunions (which is why I need customs in the first place), but have fit well ever since.

[rd350]

I have custom Harlicks, sent back once and the right boot still isn't quite right.  I have always cramped on the right.  Better when I got them back but not resolved.  I paid for "cushioned insoles" when I sent them back and they are very thin, barely cushioned and they glued them in so removing or making adjustments not possible and so I add a thin insole on top of it.  Leather on the left boot already split (on the inside), less than 2 years in.  I really want to go there - with my feet - rather than send back again for another guess and stab at it.  Not too thrilled.

[Nate]

2 years is kind of long for one pair of boots. Lol


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[Doubletoe]

I am on my third pair of custom SP Teri kT2s and have never had a fit problem with any of them.  In fact, This pair has lasted me 5 years (I only skate 3 hours a week and no longer do jumps over 1 revolution).  I think the reason the fit is so perfect is because I started out in their standard sized boots and was therefore able to provide the customization requests using their standard sizing as a reference point, i.e., size 6.5 B, but narrower heel, half a size wider in the balls of both feet, 1/4 size longer on the left foot.

[icepixie]

My custom boot story has an ending now: I gave up.  I suspect the root of the problem with my SP-Teris was that they don't have any padding whatsoever in the bottom, nor room for it.  (Even after my sales rep took a dremel to the ball area to carve out a little more vertical room so I could slip a very thin Dr. Scholl's-type insole in there, it didn't work.)  That's on me; I didn't realize there was just nothing in there but a thin piece of leather, or I would've thought much harder about going with SP-Teri.  I have a hard time with shoes that don't have much of a padded insole too.

In addition to the many, many modifications my sales rep made (the man is a saint!), I sent them back twice with unsatisfactory results.  The first time, it was because they were half an inch too long; I asked for them to cut down the length but leave the width alone, and also to snug up the heels.  I got back a shorter, narrower boot that was just as sloppy in the heels as before.

Okay, whatever; I punched out the front and padded the back.  Now my feet were going numb from the arch to the ends of my toes within ten minutes of putting them on.  After much punching, stretching, lacing modifications, ankle sleeves, pads, arch supports, etc. etc., we ended up taking a cast of my feet with those casting socks and sending them along with the boots, with a note/phone call that basically said "Please make these look like the casts!  Also I think making the tongue wider would help, given my instep/arch issues."  They told me it would be really difficult to make a wider tongue as that requires cutting a new upper, so instead they just widened the ball and toe area a bit more.  (You know...to where I'd asked them to keep it last time...)

When they came back and there was no improvement, I threw in the towel.  It's now been nine months since I first got them, and I just want to skate.  I have an appointment with the local Jackson dealer tomorrow morning.  My old ones were far from perfect, but they were better than this.  I've learned my lesson to never buy a new brand without trying on a pair of their stock boots first.

[tstop4me]

My custom boot story has an ending now: I gave up.  ....

Sorry your story has such an unhappy ending.  Did you have to eat the entire cost of the boots?

[icepixie]

Yes.  To be fair, the biggest problem is with something I never asked them to adjust when I ordered the skates (create space for an insole).  I can't blame them for that.

[FigureSpins]

I brought the insoles to my Harlick fitting and the boots ended up being gigantic, so don't blame yourself too much.  FWIW, I had a similar issue with SP-Teri - there's a ridge across the forefoot that pressed on a nerve and the heel-to-arch area also had a ridge that pressed into the back of my arch.  Numbness resulted, to the point where I started feeling that the joint behind my big toe was damaged and my heel lost all feeling for a good half-hour after I skated in the boots.

[tstop4me]

Yes.  To be fair, the biggest problem is with something I never asked them to adjust when I ordered the skates (create space for an insole).  I can't blame them for that.

Thanks for the report.  Good to know.  I was under the impression that these days all advanced boots have removable footbeds.  Obviously not the case.  Better luck with your next pair.

[Christy]

Yes.  To be fair, the biggest problem is with something I never asked them to adjust when I ordered the skates (create space for an insole).  I can't blame them for that.

I have to disagree with this statement because I think the sales rep or whoever measured you should be asking questions about stuff like this and making sure you understand what you will / won't get. As tstopme says people assume that all boots have certain features.

[Christy]

Okay, whatever; I punched out the front and padded the back.  Now my feet were going numb from the arch to the ends of my toes within ten minutes of putting them on.  After much punching, stretching, lacing modifications, ankle sleeves, pads, arch supports, etc. etc., we ended up taking a cast of my feet with those casting socks and sending them along with the boots, with a note/phone call that basically said "Please make these look like the casts!  Also I think making the tongue wider would help, given my instep/arch issues."  They told me it would be really difficult to make a wider tongue as that requires cutting a new upper, so instead they just widened the ball and toe area a bit more.  (You know...to where I'd asked them to keep it last time...)

When they came back and there was no improvement, I threw in the towel.  It's now been nine months since I first got them, and I just want to skate.  I have an appointment with the local Jackson dealer tomorrow morning.  My old ones were far from perfect, but they were better than this.  I've learned my lesson to never buy a new brand without trying on a pair of their stock boots first.

So they made them incorrectly several times then refused to cut a new upper that might have actually worked? I'd always thought that custom boots meant they would ensure they made something that worked for the customer, albeit in conjunction with the customer trying their own tweeks, but that doesn't appear to have been the case here.

[tstop4me]

So they made them incorrectly several times then refused to cut a new upper that might have actually worked? I'd always thought that custom boots meant they would ensure they made something that worked for the customer, albeit in conjunction with the customer trying their own tweeks, but that doesn't appear to have been the case here.

Yeah, this is disheartening, given the $$$.  If you go to a local pro shop, I can see fingerpointing between the pro and the manufacturer.  I believe some people here have actually gone to the factory for their fittings. In this case, there can't be any fingerpointing.  Do they guarantee satisfaction or your money back if you get fitted at the factory?  For those who have gone through this, which brand?

[AgnesNitt]

I disagree. No one makes boots without insoles. the reason? Because the insoles are responsible for:
a. absorbing sweat to keep it off the inner soles -- or you'll rot the soles from sweat
b. being replaceable when they wear out--to protect the soles
c. protecting the skater from anything on the soles--like a rough sole or some interior stitching.

I would have gone through the roof, demanded my money back or a pair of rebuilt boots, and threatened to blacken their name on every blog, forum or facebook group involving figure skating in the english, french and german language. (and when I did have trouble with my last pair of Harlicks, my technician threatened them with my blog. I was amused.)

They screwed up and you got taken to the cleaners. Your technician should have sent them back.

[icepixie]

No one makes boots without insoles.

Even their stock boots don't have insoles, at least according to the people I've talked to (post receiving these) that have their stock boots.  There's a thin piece of leather in every pair they make, that's it.

[icepixie]

So they made them incorrectly several times then refused to cut a new upper that might have actually worked? I'd always thought that custom boots meant they would ensure they made something that worked for the customer, albeit in conjunction with the customer trying their own tweeks, but that doesn't appear to have been the case here.

I assume if I sent them back a third time they would get around to doing it.  (I'm also reasonably sure it wouldn't really solve the problem.)  It's been nine months, though, and I just didn't have the energy for another round, especially because I didn't trust them not to misinterpret my request yet again.

[tothepointe]

Even their stock boots don't have insoles, at least according to the people I've talked to (post receiving these) that have their stock boots.  There's a thin piece of leather in every pair they make, that's it.

That's called a sock liner. Actually most of what we think of as "insoles"  is actually a liner. The insole usually texon board or leather and is what the sole gets stitched to.

I used to make shoes and from knowing the costs I would imagine for most custom boot companies they don't have the profit margin to keep on remaking boots until they are perfect so I can see why they'd resist doing so. Especially adding in the dealer's cut.

I'm only 1.5 weeks into my new Avantas and haven't had any issues but such a short time I can't really say with 100% certainty. I was fitted at the factory for them which seems the only way to purchase them now since they no longer accept orders from 3rd party dealers. I was told they don't close my file until I'm happy and that I'm to send them back at 9 months for maintenance (no cost) so it sounds like they'd stand by any problems.

I was originally supposed to go back to the factory to pick them up but because of an unexpected move I could not. They offered to pick me up at the airport, drive me to the shop for the initial adjustments and then drive me to the local rink so they could check the alignment in person. That would have been nice to take advantage of that extra level of service but as it is it might have been overkill since there hasn't been any issues yet.

Avanta does seem to be the more expensive option at $1200 (everything included) so probably the price point accommodates the extras.

I don't think any bootmaker would offer you a money back guarantee though since it would be more cost effective to rework a boot rather than throwing it away.

[tothepointe]

Oh what I found interesting about the Avantas was that they include a commercial orthotic footbed in it. Currexsole which I appreciate because it will be easy to replace without having to get the bootmaker involved.

[FigureSpins]

You can take them to small claims court.  I'm going to start threatening people with exposure on Agnes' blog.  (It's funny how many adult skaters I meet at the rink mention her blog.  I'm very proud to say I know her in real life.)

Here are the footbed options I've found in my skates.

Harlick customs, as measured by their President, also came with a flat insert.  I assumed that was because I told him I wanted to use the Sole-brand insoles, but they were like clown shoes, lol.

Klingbeil Customs - Bill and Don made a custom insole.  Bill's version was the best ever.

SP-Teris Super Teris (semi-custom) came with the same piece of flat pleather masquerading as a footbed.  Useless.

Jackson Competitors (stock) had the best insole - a sport insert with an arch support built in.

My kids' Riedells had a flat felt insole, which they said was fine.  (Both are a little flat-footed.)

[tstop4me]

I don't think any bootmaker would offer you a money back guarantee though since it would be more cost effective to rework a boot rather than throwing it away.

There's also the issue of maintaining goodwill and avoiding bad PR, worth far more than the cost of one pair of boots.  Many companies often do not have an official guarantee, but if you word a letter appropriately and address it to someone high up, you often can get special consideration.  I served a stint as a quality improvement engineer in a major corp, so I learned all the right buzz words and phrases.