Riedell boot and sizing...help, please!

[Hwmsr]

My current skates situation:
I have an old pair of Riedell 220 size 5N. It was big. I can feel my feet sliding forward. I am taking a LTS group lesson adult level 3. I skate 6 hours per week. And I just made my first crossover today on my own! So excited and definitely want to learn more. Another group class I took was teaching Canasta Tango! I love the pointed toes with chassis and swing rolls, but the high back of the boot hurt my feet.
So I am thinking to get a new pair of skates in Riedell TS series. I am considering Riedell 910 because the low-cut back, easier for ice dance. But 910 is probably over my skating level. Is that a too much "overbooking"?
I went to the local Riedell dealer place. The highest level they had was 255, no 910. The sales measured my feet at size 5! And I knew it was wrong! I told her I wanted to try size 4.5 because my current 5N was too big. The only size 4.5 in stock was 223. It was very comfortable to walk. She also had a 255 size 4.5 wide. However, I felt 255 was a little tight in length and my ankle could definitely feel a break-in required. The sales girl explained as 255 had a higher supporting rating and more padding, so it would be tight. She said it would be too wide after break-in as I wore narrow width skates before. But she thought size 4.5 medium was a perfect match for me. That is also the only pair they had in size 4.5 in stock.
I went home and measured my feet. The length is 9" and the width is 7 3/4". I wonder if size 4.5 N will fit me better. I called the local store, they said they never had a Narrow size in stock.
So I need your help on:
1. Which Riedell model should I pick? 223, 229, 255 or 910?
2. What size should I order? Size 4.5 N or 4.5 M?
I am 5'4" and 106 lbs.
thanks in advance!

[Query]

Since you are only talking half a size (about 1/6" in length), I would just play with the insole, adding tape or adhesive foam, or make a new insole, unless you really want new skates.

[Hwmsr]

Since you are only talking half a size (about 1/6" in length), I would just play with the insole, adding tape or adhesive foam, or make a new insole, unless you really want new skates.

I can easily put a ball pen at the back of my skates now. I think it is half an inch space there. Currently I do put two layers of insoles to solve the sliding feet.
The 220N is old and the padding on the foot pad is peeling. Every time a little form material would get on my socks. I got it used online for $35 to start skating. The boot was in good shape, no break-in needed at all. Now I think the no break-in might be due to the larger size and I wore really thick ski socks.
But now when I practised one foot glide, my feet was wobbling in it.
I guess I do want to get new skates. 

[skategeek]

I spent my first couple of years in skates that turned out to be a full size too big for me (8C; I'm now in 7B and my current tech says he thinks maybe 7A next time).  I used something like three layers of insoles (2 cheap insoles and Superfeet) and it sort of helped, but switching to properly fitting skates made a world of difference.  I'd say in your case it's definitely worth it to get new skates.  I'm not experienced enough to help with your detailed questions about sizing (and don't know the Riedell models well), but hopefully someone else is!

[Hwmsr]

I spent my first couple of years in skates that turned out to be a full size too big for me (8C; I'm now in 7B and my current tech says he thinks maybe 7A next time).  I used something like three layers of insoles (2 cheap insoles and Superfeet) and it sort of helped, but switching to properly fitting skates made a world of difference.  I'd say in your case it's definitely worth it to get new skates.  I'm not experienced enough to help with your detailed questions about sizing (and don't know the Riedell models well), but hopefully someone else is!

Thanks for letting me know that I was not the only one started with wrong size skates. I guess fitting skates is also a learning experience.

[Query]

If you have space in the heel - that is a major issue, as you lose a lot of control over the skate. You can cut a new insole that wraps around the foot, to somewhat fix it, and you can do the same on the sides - but it would be hard to deal with the whole foot. You could try an extra thick insole to push the foot up into the smaller section of the boot (e.g., that 3 insole solution). That would also push the foot back so the heel lies against the back of the boot, which is desirable.

Incidentally, if you got longer blades to match the longer than needed boots, you could have a separate problem. If the fitter positioned the blades so that the sweet spot is too far from the ball of your foot, it would be difficult to control your skates. And if he/she positioned it right for that - your toe pick may be too far away. And the tail may be so far back that you accidentally step on it once in a while.

A better solution is of course to spend the money and get the right size. A good rule of thumb, for US sizing, which I believe Riedell uses, is the one I cited - 1/2 size up is 1/6 inch in length. And proportionately larger in width. I would take out the insole and see how your foot fits on it. If 1/6" smaller in length and <current width> / <current length> * 1/6" smaller in width would do what you want, that is about right. Of course, the insole (which approximately reflects the footbed) isn't the whole story, but it may give you a rough estimate.

For example, here is one approximate set of measures, that isn't specific to Riedell:
  http://www.galls.com/photos/static/documents/galls/pdf/how-to-measure-footwear.pdf
Alas it doesn't go down to your size.

But

http://www.shoesize.com/men/shoe-width/sizechart/
and
http://www.shoesize.com/women/shoe-width/sizechart/

makes it clear that at your size level, one half size down will take you about 1/16 inch narrower.

However, you can order Riedell in more than one width - the approximate difference between B, C, and D is given by about .2" in width.

http://www.bootoutfitters.com/size_chart.html

Riedell will even let you specify different widths at different points in the boot - though they might charge for the customization.

I hope that wasn't too confusing.

It would be nice if Riedell gave you a better way to figure it out for yourself... Like a set of insole tracings, that you could print out and step on.

[Hwmsr]

Thank you, Query, for the detailed explanation.
I am skating with double insoles now. I am definitely a narrow feet according to those shoe charts. That helps to learn my size better.

[Query]

But those charts are not for Riedell. That's part of why I wanted you to put your feet on the insoles, to see if proportionately changing both length and width will solve your problem. BTW, at a given width letter, Riedell runs a bit narrower than some of the other brands (like Jackson), especially at the toes.

Though if you have too short a foot for your boots, and ALSO a proportionately narrow foot, that might explain why you have so much trouble with those boots. My personal advice is not to trust the skate tech who measured you last time to do it better this time. It sounds like he may not have understood what he was doing, though of course I didn't see him work.

[singerskates]

Go to the Riedell website and check the skill chart. Since you're only 106 lbs you don't want to pick the adult stiffness. case in point Bronze Stars have the regular stiffness in 35 and even stiffer boots in adult 435 which I have. I am jumping jumps up to the single Lutz. There is a set of boots just below the star series that would be just perfect for you. https://ice.riedellskates.com/ https://ice.riedellskates.com/products/boot-range#figure

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[singerskates]

I think that this skate would be the best for where you're at now with room to get into single jumps. https://ice.riedellskates.com/products/boots/229-edge#.WR4dXssXbVg

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[Hwmsr]

I think that this skate would be the best for where you're at now with room to get into single jumps. https://ice.riedellskates.com/products/boots/229-edge#.WR4dXssXbVg

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The Riedell shop said they would order more sizes of 229 in two weeks. Going to give it a try. Thanks for the recommendation!

[Hwmsr]

Just a quick update. I finally got a Riedell 910LS, size 4.5N. It is the previous version of 910 CS. The boots are lighter than my current 220. They are supposed to have same stiffness as 255, but so comfortable.  When I put them on, no ankle pain at all. Only the heel digged a little bit. All my leather shoes, more or less, have the same issue till they are worn enough. Now they feel truly like extension of my feet now. I guess that is a competitive fit (that's how Riedell called the tight fit). I am in love with my new skates.
Thanks for everyone's input here.

[Hwmsr]

I skated with my new 910 the very first time today for 1.5 hours. Took a 3 mins break after first 20 min skating to adjust the lace. So light and so comfortable! I had such a wonderful time with it! Don't want to go back to my old skates any more.