Dance blade length

[Ethereal Ice]

I have a pair of older Riedell Silver Stars 355 size 9.5A, they currently have an MK Single Star blade size 11 on them. I have been skating in them for a year, and though they are an older model, they were unused when I bought them. With my coach's approval, I am planning to switch the current blade to dance blades, specifically  the Wilson Coronation Dance blade. I spoke with my skate sharpener a few weeks ago to make sure that my soles can hold a new blade and he was confident that they could.

I was searching blade sizing charts online to get an idea of what size blade would be appropriate, but the sizing charts are all for current Riedell skates. I am assuming that because the dance blades are shorter that the size I need would obviously be shorter than my current blade, but the question is, how short? I can and will discuss this with my blade guy, but I was curious if there was a basic conversion of freestyle blade length=dance blade length?

Thanks in advance!

[Jenna]

You would get the same length.  The length of the sole of your boot should determine blade size, not the type of blade.

[Bill_S]

What she said...

[Ethereal Ice]

Yay! Thank you so much for explaining that!

[Query]

I still claim the length of the boot outsole is theoretically unimportant - the length of the blade should be sized to your anatomy, not to the outsole. Especially on a non-custom boot, where the toe area of the boot may extend far past your toes, and doesn't affect skating (except that you can't bring the other foot closer than the front of the boot).

But I agree that the nominal length should generally not depend on the skating style. I believe that length is actually the total length from the back of the back mounting plate of the blade to the front of the other, and is not determined by the total length of the runner. I'd have to measure some blades, but it would make sense if that length was really the distance from the back of the heel of your foot to the ball of your foot.

You could always grind off the back of your freestyle blades. That would almost give you Dance blades - but the toe picks would probably still be too aggressive.

[tstop4me]

I still claim the length of the boot outsole is theoretically unimportant - the length of the blade should be sized to your anatomy, not to the outsole. Especially on a non-custom boot, where the toe area of the boot may extend far past your toes, and doesn't affect skating (except that you can't bring the other foot closer than the front of the boot).

...

I don't think you can dismiss the length of the boot outsole and heel as an important factor.  At first glance, it would seem the length of the foot is determinative.  But as discussed in another thread, different boots have different heel pitch angles.  The length of the projection of the foot on the horizontal plane will vary with the heel pitch angle, and this will influence the appropriate blade length.  There are more complications of course, because different boots have different overhangs between the back of the heel cup of the boot and the back of the bottom of the heel and between the front of the toe box of the boot and the front of the bottom of the outsole.  The length of the outsole and heel, however, not the length of the foot, controls where the mounting holes for the blades can be positioned.  That's a practical controlling factor (even if you allow the mounting plates to stick out from the outsole and heel a bit); this assumes, of course, that you are using standard mounting techniques and, not, for example, jury-rigging an adapter plate between the heel/sole and the blade.

[Query]

as discussed in another thread, different boots have different heel pitch angles.  The length of the projection of the foot on the horizontal plane will vary with the heel pitch angle, and this will influence the appropriate blade length.

OK, then, use projected-to-horizontal foot anatomy.

The length of the outsole and heel, however, not the length of the foot, controls where the mounting holes for the blades can be positioned.  That's a practical controlling factor

The outsole only slightly physically controls mounting position. Even if one of the mounting plate holes isn't physically underneath the outsole, you can just use one of the other holes. You don't need to mount screws in all the holes - AFAICT, most fitters use two holes in each of the heel and forward plates - maybe three. And you certainly don't have to use a blade whose mounting plates match the entire length of the outsole. In practice, one of the custom boot makers told me they tried to set the outsole position and length to help guide inexperienced fitters to the custom boot maker's best guess of what would match the skater's anatomy - but that can't be done on stock boots, because, depending on foot shape, the boot and outsole is typically an indeterminate length longer than the (projected) foot.

For example, Phil from Harlick (a former master boot maker) says that my toes are shorter than average for my foot length. If I choose a stock boot so that the place where the toe area bends upwards matched the ball of my foot, as intended, the boot, and outsole, would be much longer than my (projected) foot. So, if I indeed matched the length of the plate regions to match the outsole, the sweet spot of the blade would be substantially forwards of the ball of my foot, whereas they should approximately match, and the toe pick would be quite far ahead of the front of my foot, making it difficult to properly use that toe pick. Phil says I would be better off with a custom boot. Then, the outsole position and length would be designed to guide an inexperienced fitter as to proper blade length and mounting position.

[mnrjpf99]

Usually a dance blade, is just shorter at the heel of the blade, than a free skate blade.

[Query]

The toe pick also looks different. The toe pick is usually shorter on a dance blade, so that the tip is farther from the ice, but the angles that the toe pick meets the ice are much different. The combination has the effect of making dance blade toe picks much less effective, but also much less likely to cause you to stumble.

I think most synchro blades are a compromise - shorter tail, like a dance blade (some synchro blades have shorter tails than same brand dance blades, but that is not always true), but a toe pick that is intermediate between that of a dance and freestyle blade. Some people on this board prefer synchro blades, even when not doing synchro.

But there is sufficient variation in blade shape, from brand to brand and model to model, that it is difficult to generalize this way.

Finally, the most popular ice dance blades (at a competitive level MK Dance genuinely dominates) are also "thinline" - thinner than most figure skating blades, though they are ground that way only at the bottom, in the "Chrome relief zone", where the nickel/chrome plating is ground off. This is supposed to make them faster. I know for a fact that my MK Dance blades felt overwhelmingly faster than my Coronation Ace blades - and overwhelmingly faster than my Ultima Supreme freestyle blades as well. However, that may have had to do with the shortened toe pick too - because one could roll through more of the length of the blade.