Do you think most skaters are visual learners?

[PinkLaces]

The leftie thread got me thinking. I am a leftie and I never teach above ISI FS1 skills, because I am able to demonstrate all the skills both ways. So do you think the majority of skaters are visual learners? Curious to see why or why not you think so?

[riley876]

When you see something done,  and you try to make it feel like you imagine the demonstrator feels?  Is that visual or kinaesthetic?   Or something more.   Certainly mirror neuron involvement is in there somewhere.

I do that sometimes, but personally I find I can do better if I can also add a "mantra" to something.  e.g. something like the words:  "One down rise and one kick push triple-step big-sigh three four *flop*".    (Which is definitely picked up from my swing-dancing days).

i.e. Stimulate the correct movement pattern from as many sensory modalities as possible.   That way the brain pathways are activated stronger than with just a single sense approach.

OTOH, I suck, so I'm not saying this is an objectively *good* approach

[Bill_S]

I know that I'm a visual learner when it comes to skating. When I watch a skating move on TV or in person, I try to feel it internally. I try to feel the forces and timing, in an imaginary way, as if I'm really doing it.

Demonstrate it, and I'll follow. Just telling me how to do it doesn't work much - for me at least.

[nicklaszlo]

So do you think the majority of skaters are visual learners?

Many people learn to skate visually, and many coaches teach that way.  But I think skaters are representative of the general population.  The concept that some people learn better using certain learning modalities e.g. "visual learners" or "auditory learners" is not supported by experimental evidence.  It's just a preference.

[icepixie]

I don't know about most, but I'm certainly not.  My coach can show me something, and my immediate response is, "Wonderful, now tell me in great detail, step by step, exactly what you just did."  I have to hear her say what to do with each limb, what edge to be on, where to put my weight, etc., before I can recreate it.  Luckily, she works almost exclusively with adults, who in my experience seem more prone to need verbal explanations than the kids do, and she's great at breaking things down with words.

[icepixie]

On the topic of lefties--I'm a righty, my coach is a lefty, and while she's adept at demonstrating things the righty way, one thing she has to do her way is back spins, and to be honest I don't even notice.  Either I'm excellent at unconsciously mirroring (unlikely) or the visual just doesn't make enough impact on me to matter.

[amy1984]

I've had coaches who demonstrate and those who describe.  In general, I would say I'm a visual learner but with skating, I tend to sort of cling to phrases, as in sometimes a coach will say something to me that really clicks and then sticks with me. I have a lot of phrases or just one word instructions to myself that I use while skating.

[fsk8r]

An old coach of mine said once that he didn't understand adult skaters until he started learning how to play golf. He found himself asking for explanations of where his little finger was, and noted that was how the adults he taught learn.
I think we all like more than just visual input.
While you might superficially think I'm a visual learner, but until I can feel the body being in the right place, I can't trust it to do what I want. My coach is forever pulling her hair out when it comes to adding arms! I just don't understand how my arms actually move...

[FigureSpins]

I'm more of a tactile learner - I have to "walk through" the motions and body positions with a narrative. Verbal cues help a great deal, along with a quick demo, but repeated demonstrations of "do it like this" are a waste of time.  I do study videos, but only to develop the cues.  For example, I watched a video on loop patterns (figures, not jumps) to determine what to do with the arms/free foot and when.

[TreSk8sAZ]

I think many of the younger children are able to pick things up visually because 1) they don't understand more complex instructions, and 2) they have no fear of trying something new.

As they get older, I do notice it changes from mostly visual to verbal cues and more discussion rather than the monkey-see-monkey-do type learning.

I, personally, am not a visual learner and never have been. I can sit there and explain to you all day what someone is doing, what they are doing wrong, what needs to happen. But in order for me to do it myself, I need to feel it correctly so I can feel when it is incorrect.

[Doubletoe]

Watching something done correctly and trying to imitate it is an essential part of the learning process in this sport, but I think if most skaters were purely visual learners, there would be a lot more skaters learning how to skate by just watching YouTube videos instead of hiring coaches.  This sport requires that you be very conscious of your body position, and since you can't see your own body position, you also need to know what to feel for.

[Query]

Since most skaters are kids, and most kids get confused if you use too many words, yes.

I'm definitely not. I need a demo, and words, and sometimes the physics too. Plus a near-infinite amount of practice, and sometimes personal experimentation.

And sometimes I can't learn something.

[LunarSkater]

I think skating is one of those sports that uses all three 'types' of learning styles. An individual skater might have a preference, but all of them will come into play at some point.

For example, I am very much a visual-kinesthetic learner. It took my coach some time to work that out, but now she gives me a visual example and then breaks it down how I am supposed to do it (eg. pulling certain muscles in my shoulders/back tighter and down to help on my posture during back power stroking).

So I think it doesn't just matter what the skater's individual learning style is; the coach also has to be able to adapt to each person in order to train successfully.

[Doubletoe]

Since most skaters are kids, and most kids get confused if you use too many words, yes.

I'm definitely not. I need a demo, and words, and sometimes the physics too. Plus a near-infinite amount of practice, and sometimes personal experimentation.

And sometimes I can't learn something.

There are other methods besides verbal and visual.  For example, a lot of instructors actually put the skater's body into the correct position so the skater can feel it.

[Query]

a lot of instructors actually put the skater's body into the correct position so the skater can feel it.

Which has been helpful to me too. Perhaps that is part of "kinesthetic" learning.

It's perhaps one of the reasons why USFS has never fully adopted SafeSport criteria (which say coaches must never touch students).

In ice dance, you and your partner are constantly giving each other direct physical feedback and guidance, when you are in contact. To some extent your partner IS your coach. And sometimes your coach does dance with you. I assume Pairs is simlar

As Riley876 and Bill_S alluded to, studies have shown that most elite athletes, when they see something demoed, actually activate many of the same muscles, and do feel as though they are going through the same motions. For such people, visual learning is also kinesthetic. I feel a little bit of the motion when I watch.

I never had a coach who videoed me while I tried, and showed me the results, but I believe that would be helpful too.

In many ways I learn best from well written descriptions, with videos, but well written descriptions are for the most sadly lacking in figure skating.

The truth is, I need ALL possible learning techniques and methods of instruction to get much of anywhere. That makes me hard to teach, because some coaches are only good at some forms of teaching.

I think that the most successful athletes have to be good at ALL forms of learning. And that the most successful coaches have to be good at ALL forms of teaching.

To teach kids, even at a volunteer level, I certainly had to learn other modes of teaching than the ones I was best at using to learn. In part because most little kids, and some older kids, learn primarally through "monkey see, monkey do".

Have you ever watched or taken part in a peformance dance class? I don't mean for beginners. I mean REAL classes for REAL dancers, who are professionals or close to it. (I'm not a REAL dancer, any more than I am a REAL skater, but I've tried classes, for fun.) They are mostly taught through "monkey see, monkey do". But teachers sometimes make a point of describing the motion in words, and letting the dancers get practice figuring that out, because they will sometimes have to do it professionally, or for an audition. Occaisionally a teacher will give verbal feedback or physical guidance to individual students. They are even sometimes required (I've never done it) to learn routines purely from abstract written notations (e.g., Laban notation), in much the same way musician sometimes has to to learn a piece from music notation alone. They are also given practice teaching each other their own compositions, using a wide variety of techniques.

Clearly they agree that good students and good teachers need to be good at all forms of learning and teaching.

[riley876]

As Riley876 and Bill_S alluded to, studies have shown that most elite athletes, when they see something demoed, actually activate many of the same muscles, and do feel as though they are going through the same motions. For such people, visual learning is also kinesthetic. I feel a little bit of the motion when I watch.

Was really interesting to hear this in that Marie-France Dubreuil interview (that I linked to in the head injury thread).   That she (as a coach) had been observed going through the motions of her student's routine as they performed it.    She seem slightly embarrassed by this.  Not sure why though.   I'd consider it to be a great sign of a properly involved coach!  i.e. involved even on a kinaesthetic level.    Clearly she (as a great skater herself),  has learned to instinctively involve all possible modalities.

[nicklaszlo]

The truth is, I need ALL possible learning techniques and methods of instruction to get much of anywhere. That makes me hard to teach, because some coaches are only good at some forms of teaching.

I think that the most successful athletes have to be good at ALL forms of learning. And that the most successful coaches have to be good at ALL forms of teaching.

That's a good summary of what's known from research on learning and teaching.

[sampaguita]

I don't know about most, but I'm certainly not.  My coach can show me something, and my immediate response is, "Wonderful, now tell me in great detail, step by step, exactly what you just did."  I have to hear her say what to do with each limb, what edge to be on, where to put my weight, etc., before I can recreate it.  Luckily, she works almost exclusively with adults, who in my experience seem more prone to need verbal explanations than the kids do, and she's great at breaking things down with words.

Same thing with me. But I also do watch videos in slow-mo -- that helps me to understand which parts move at the same time.

[Query]

Incidentally, I suggest that most of the pure visual learners don't post here. This is a mostly-verbal discussion board. And most of the people are probably adults, who tend to learn by words.

But those on this board who teach know that most of the kids they teach are visual/kinesthetic learners.

So if you asked how people on this board learn, you might get a different answer from asking how most skaters learn.

[irenar5]

For me the most effective learning comes from:

1. Verbal explanations (the more they make sense from the physics standpoint- the better:-)  And with a lot of detail- as in "this arm goes here, this is how long it stays bent, this is when it straightens, etc)

2. Element walk-throughs- with me doing them and coach's corrections of my movement.  I have to be able to feel the proper position.

Visual learning is my weakest (at least in skating)- and I am a 43 year old adult, started skating 6 years ago.