Replacing old Boots and Blades

[zoexenson]

Hi everyone. I'm new here and have read through the site a bit but never posted a question.  So here goes my first, hope someone can help.
My wife was a big ice skater back in the day (20 years ago, boy time flies by); she took lessons starting around 8 up through 18. Then she coached private and group lessons from 16 - mid to late 20s. She only stopped skating when our first child was born. Since that time she has been busy raising our three kids (oldest now 9 and youngest is almost 4) and hasn't really been back on the ice.  OK enough history.
Now all our kids are old enough to skate and we actually enjoy going to the rink as a family.  The trouble is my wife has the same boots and blades from 20+ years ago Sp-Teri super deluxe boots and a pair of Danco Sports Vantage blades. The boots have gotten small over the years (or maybe her feet have grown) and the blades really need replacing.

So I have two questions
1) does anyone know or have any information on these blades???  The company seems to be long gone and MK appears to have had a blade named Vantage but has since been renamed to the MK Vision (am I correct to assume this is the same blade as the Danco Sport Vantage on my wife's boots?  We have tried other blades (coronation comet) but she doesn't feel as comfortable or steady on the ice.


2) we moved states during this time and there do not appear to be any dedicated ice skate shops in our area. Where we grew up the last place you would ever buy boots and blades from was the pro shop at the rink but it seems that is the only place around here (south of St Petersburg FL). Does anyone know a place in the area or does anyone actually have good experience with pro shops at the rink?
Thanks for any help

[icedancer]

So I have two questions
1) does anyone know or have any information on these blades???  The company seems to be long gone and MK appears to have had a blade named Vantage but has since been renamed to the MK Vision (am I correct to assume this is the same blade as the Danco Sport Vantage on my wife's boots?  We have tried other blades (coronation comet) but she doesn't feel as comfortable or steady on the ice.


2) we moved states during this time and there do not appear to be any dedicated ice skate shops in our area. Where we grew up the last place you would ever buy boots and blades from was the pro shop at the rink but it seems that is the only place around here (south of St Petersburg FL). Does anyone know a place in the area or does anyone actually have good experience with pro shops at the rink?
Thanks for any help

I'm surprised that there are no dedicated skate shops in your area because isn't St. Peterburg kind of a big skating area - there are all of those pairs teams that skate down there... don't they?

MK used to make the Vantage which I believe is now called Vision.  I have not heard of Danko...

Welcome your wife back to the world of skating!!!

And your family too.

[cameocooper]

I lived in Orlando a few years ago, I went skating once or twice, and the RDV Ice Den has quite a large pro shop. So may be worth the drive into Orlando.

Also you are very close to Tampa, I think there may be a couple rinks around there, who may have pro shops. but I have never been to them, so can't comment.

[nicklaszlo]

We have tried other blades (coronation comet) but she doesn't feel as comfortable or steady on the ice.

Probably she got used to skating on worn out or unsharpened blades and worn out boots.  Give new blades some time.

[davincisop]

If you're in St. Pete, look into the Ellenton Ice and Sports Complex. Mark Ladwig is a Jackson rep there, RDV Ice Den has Brian Kader to help with boot and blade fitting (I don't know how much I would trust the guys that just work in the pro shop to fit, since it's an expensive investment).

[zoexenson]

I completely agree about the worn out blades.  She has skateed on the same blades for so long they have lost much of their profile and it appears any rocker that was in blade is now gone.  So now comes the next question. Any ideas on what to do next for boots and blades?  Looking for any suggestions. I would love to see her coach again and can easily see her doing singles with a few doubles.

She has a pair of Riedell silver star boots (in really good shape) with MK double star blades but the boot is a little big in he heel and she really doesn't like the toe pick (too small and not evil looking enough) on the boots. Has anyone used a heel insert to help form the fit in the heel of a skating boot?  Or are we better just getting a new boot.
Any blade suggestions?  She would love a straight toe pick (no curve between the toe and toe pick, not sure if that is the correct way to describe the shape)  like MK Vision but $400+ at this point doesn't seem logical considering she is no longer competing.

[AgnesNitt]

I completely agree about the worn out blades.  She has skateed on the same blades for so long they have lost much of their profile and it appears any rocker that was in blade is now gone.  So now comes the next question. Any ideas on what to do next for boots and blades?  Looking for any suggestions. I would love to see her coach again and can easily see her doing singles with a few doubles.

She has a pair of Riedell silver star boots (in really good shape) with MK double star blades but the boot is a little big in he heel and she really doesn't like the toe pick (too small and not evil looking enough) on the boots. Has anyone used a heel insert to help form the fit in the heel of a skating boot?  Or are we better just getting a new boot.
Any blade suggestions?  She would love a straight toe pick (no curve between the toe and toe pick, not sure if that is the correct way to describe the shape)  like MK Vision but $400+ at this point doesn't seem logical considering she is no longer competing.

For the heel you can get a $20 gel tube from amazon, and you can improve the seating of the heel by following the technique on this lacing post of mine labelled "Heel slipping?". It works.

And MK Pros are less than $200

[icedancer]

If you're in St. Pete, look into the Ellenton Ice and Sports Complex. Mark Ladwig is a Jackson rep there, RDV Ice Den has Brian Kader to help with boot and blade fitting (I don't know how much I would trust the guys that just work in the pro shop to fit, since it's an expensive investment).

I knew Brian Kader when I skated as a kid in the '60s!  He has been around a LONG time - would trust that experience for sure.

[ChristyRN]

If you're in St. Pete, look into the Ellenton Ice and Sports Complex. Mark Ladwig is a Jackson rep there,

Mark measured me for my Jacksons and got me into a split last that fits my feet and has done wonders for my skating. I second the opinion to visit him.

[Query]

The boots have gotten small over the years (or maybe her feet have grown)

It is well known that pregnancy tends to change the size and shape of your feet. In particular, they tend to swell up, and stay somewhat swelled. This is perfectly normal -  make sure she knows it doesn't necesarally mean she isn't still in good physical condition.

Have you tried removing the insoles to make more space, and maybe have a good skate tech stretch them? That might help, but may not be enough.

Note that TaBalie in this thread

http://skating.zachariahs.com/skatingforums-onice/www.skatingforums.com/showthread125b-2.html

said the old boots are not heat moldable - but almost any leather skates can be heat molded to some extent at about 175 - 180 degrees Fahrenheit. Heat molding may help too - but has it's limits, especially near the bottom of the boot.

On the Silver Star boots, you don't need a fancy commercial "heel insert". Just put a little tape under the insole in the heels to make it snug. If that isn't enough, let the tape come up a little around the outside of the foot (fold the tape over so it doesn't stick), to make a nice tight fit.

Based on what I've seen, people returning to skating after many years often need a few days or weeks before they feel confident. So she may not really need stiffer boots, unless the old ones are broken down.

OTOH, if you can afford it, maybe new boots, and blades, will make her happier. Many ladies love to shop. She can pass on the old boots, and the Double Star blades, to a worthy student... While you are at it, maybe she "needs" an updated outfit, with a professional looking black PSA jacket and pants, or a pretty skating dress.

I encourage you to follow what other people say, and go to a good fitter. They make a huge difference, and are well worth the extra drive. And it will make her feel more special.

If she gets cold feet or toes, one big advantage of new boots would be that she could get a nice warm plush liner, possibly plush ski socks (she wants to be a coach, and will stand still a lot), and leave space to replace the insoles with closed cell carpet foam cut to the same size and shape. Closed cell carpet foam is several times better insulated than most insole material, and if you cut it yourself, you can create a perfect fit.

As a coach, if she still has credentials (which you need to coach almost anywhere), she can probably get a discount on her boots, and maybe on her blades. Contact the boot and blade companies to see.

[tstop4me]

- but almost any leather skates can be heat molded to some extent at about 175 - 180 degrees Fahrenheit. Heat molding may help too - but has it's limits, especially near the bottom of the boot.

I'd be extremely leery of trying to heat mold any boot that's not explicitly designed to be heat-moldable.  Remember, boots typically contain a variety of materials other than leather; e.g., adhesives, foam rubber, fabrics, paints, and dyes.  You have no idea of what the max rated service temperature of these materials are, and whether toxic fumes start to outgas.  Besides, even if leather can in principle can be heat molded (haven't verified this, but let's assume so for the sake of this discussion), it will likely degrade if it has not been specifically processed to withstand heat molding.  Also, true heat-moldable boots have an intermediate layer of thermoplastic that retains the newly molded contours.  If you were to heat mold plain leather boots, how long will the contours be retained? 

[tstop4me]

She has a pair of Riedell silver star boots (in really good shape) with MK double star blades but the boot is a little big in he heel and she really doesn't like the toe pick (too small and not evil looking enough) on the boots. Has anyone used a heel insert to help form the fit in the heel of a skating boot?  Or are we better just getting a new boot.

By far the most important aspect of a good fitting boot is a snug fitting heel.  If you have a snug fitting heel, go ahead and modify other parts of the boot as needed.  But if the heel is loose fitting, I'd get new boots, rather than settling for band-aid remedies.

[Query]

I'd be extremely leery of trying to heat mold any boot that's not explicitly designed to be heat-moldable... If you were to heat mold plain leather boots, how long will the contours be retained?

But 175 isn't really very hot. Especially if, as is normal skates, you only put it in the oven for a few minutes, so most of the boot doesn't actually get that hot. (BTW, you forgot to mention thread and lacing, among vulnerable components. Many boots are held together partly using thread, and it is preferable to use laces that don't have to be removed before heat, and relaced before you put them on.)

It isn't reasonable to assume that boots are sometimes shipped inside shipping containers, which might reach ambient temperature - about 130 deg F at extreme - plus 20 - 30 deg F elevation, if in the sun. I.E., up to about 160 deg F. (No wonder you need to heat mold boots AFTER they are shipped to you. Cars don't get that hot - I hope - yet car temperatures are hot enough to un-mold some heat moldable boots, as I found out by experience.) If you want to ship something through ordinary shipping channels, and aren't using expensive temperature control mechanisms, it can't be too sensitive to temperature.

Most leather can go a lot hotter - e.g., some leather boots, like the highest end GAMS, are designed to heat mold at 300. I had to give up on molding one pair of GAM skates with a hand-held hot air drier. I was shocked to find that I couldn't change the shape to any significant extent.

According to Don Klingbeil, leather boots are formed (stretched over a "last") using a combination of heat and moisture. He was the one who told me that 175, for a few minutes, and a little moisture, is probably pretty safe - even for his boots, which weren't meant to be heat molded. But it's not really hot enough for the shape to be retained very long. When really good boot technicians spot-stretch boots, they often use heat guns to get the spot somewhat hotter, and then stretch the leather to shape using a lot of pressure, using a commercial boot press, possibly with moisture. When I did it to my old Klingbeils, cautiously around hot-air-drier temperatures, and only using a ball-and-ring pliers, which don't generate as much pressure as a full-blown boot press, I had to re-do it every month or two. (I first had a boot technician use their oven to heat mold the Klingbeils at 175, using the same time parameters as was common at the time for SP Teris, but that didn't hold long enough either. Of course it is possible I needed them stretched more than was practical, because my custom fitter had made mistakes - Don said that if the measurements had been done right, the boots would have fit without modification.)

OTOH, I wouldn't try 175 on a cheap pair of sneakers. Maybe they'd take it, maybe not.

But I should have mentioned that doing it in a home cooking oven could be a big mistake - it isn't uncommon for home cooking ovens to be off by 25 - 50 deg F, if you take temperature cycling into account.