Getting the most out of LTS

[Feebee]

I am planning a move out of my home town, and was really unhappy with the way my private lessons were going, so I decided that for the 6 weeks until I move was going to take a break from skating.

I lasted exactly 4 days before realizing I miss it too much, and that I wanted to continue learning if possible. I signed up for a once a week group LTS class just for a month or so. I had the first lesson today, and it's SO different than privates, obviously.

The coaches are nice, but they're teaching everything differently than I was learning, and it's all just a lot more chaotic...I really wanted to get more input on my 3-turns (since I'm having a wretched time with the insides 3s). Is that going to just be too much to expect from a big group class?

Anyone have any tips on maximizing group lessons? I obviously don't want to hog the coach, but I also feel kind of silly doing pumps on a circle when I'm up to crossovers, and it's not like they're closely analyzing my crossovers like a private coach would...

[riley876]

I get my LTS for "free", since it's in the same session as my private.   I simply do the whole of the LTS backwards.  And if they're doing backwards stuff, I do it one footed backwards.   And if they're doing one footed backwards, I do mine one footed backwards on an edge, etc.   

But to be honest, I don't get a great deal out of it, other than simply prompting me to practice a few things I otherwise wouldn't think of.   But it's free and it's time on skates, so whatever.

[beginner skater]

Coaches seem to handle group classes in one of two ways. They either concentrate on the weakest, and try to bring them up to the rest of the class. Or they concentrate on the best skaters , and ignore the others. Either way, they never seem to spend the most time with me

If we're working on something I'm relatively good at, I ask how can I make this better? And if I'm weak at it, I say I find this difficult, can we work on this more? What am I doing wrong? On the whole I like working on things myself, analysing what I think is going wrong, and what would help. And coaches never seem to mind being approached for help. I get two different coaches for LTS, and sometimes I found/find it confusing and even irritating when they use different set ups/instructions for the same manoeuvre. But I have found that sometimes one way is easier than the other, and is the key to beginning to get the skill. I like group lessons cos they give you the time to work on your own. Mind you, I've only had one private, but the instruction was just the same, just more of it, and i got to choose what to work on.

[skategeek]

One thing I try to do if I end up in a class with a lot of beginners is focus on fixing my bad habits while I do the "easy" stuff.  Keep head up, knees bent, stop slumping, etc.

[jjane45]

I had really excellent group coaches (one works primarily with adult skaters and another teaches mostly youth), and coaches who did not have one iota of interest in their group students. Classes with kids tend to focus on the "level elements" and the goal is passing tests and moving up. Classes with adults are really diverse and everyone works at different elements after the group warm up. How big is your class? It takes lots of experience and passion to take care of individual needs for a diverse group. Does not hurt to speak to him / her about your goals. If there is enough ice surface, maybe you can practice different skills under supervision?

[Query]

I lasted exactly 4 days before realizing I miss it too much

I think you are addicted!

The standards followed in semi-standardized ISI WeSkate and USFS LTS group lessons are quite lax. Partly because a lot of group lesson time is spent "babysitting" - trying to keep people's attention, and trying to maintain a semblance of order. Partly because group lesson teachers often use them to recruit students into their own private lessons. If you took a non-standard class or clinic in "edges" or "ice dance", it would probably be different, because the usual assumption in non-standard classes and clinics is that you want to do it "right". Some posters in this forum said that in Europe there were no private lessons - so I assume group lessons are handled better there. (And yet - some European skaters come to places like North America to take private lessons...)

I was in one one group lesson where the coach handled a 3 or 4 person mixed-skill-level "Adult" skating class by taking turns with each student. It worked pretty well. But the figure skating director made us merge with a somewhat mixed level kids class with 4 or 5 students. There wasn't enough time to play round robin as well, and kids don't have a long attention span, so the system broke down. With all those different levels and learning styles, there was no good way for the coach to handle things - though some coaches handle that better than others.

Any one-room-school-house lesson works a lot better when there are very few students. More than 4 is too many!

In what follows, I assume you are talking about FORWARD (half-swizzle) pushes and FORWARD cross-overs...

Very few coaches handle pumps and cross-overs well in a group lesson environment. That's because you need a lot of individual attention to stay on the "correct" edges deeply and consistently enough to meet figure skating standards. Most learners don't realize when they lose those edges, and they aren't leaned into those edges deeply in the first place.

In particular, for both pumps and cross-overs, if you are going round a circle, both skates should stay leaned into the circle the whole time they are on the ice. The whole body should be somewhat leaned the same way. Your head should also look somewhat in towards the center of the circle. The way I see it, your head, and the neck twist it requires, pulls your body into proper alignment. Finally, your waist should be twisted into that look, but shouldn't be bent, so that your head, hips and skates are vertically aligned, though some coaches may change that a little.

Moving CCW round a circle, the left foot leans onto outside edge; the right foot leans into inside edge. Look left into the circle, and place the right arm on the circle ahead of you, and the left arm on the circle behind you. (i.e., embrace the circle.)

Moving CW  round a circle, the right foot leans onto outside edge; the left foot leans into inside edge. Look right into the circle, and place the left arm on the circle ahead of you, and the right arm on the circle behind you.

Most new cross-over students let one of the outside edges turn into an inside edge as the front foot crosses over. So they aren't very smooth, and don't have much power. Whereas cross-overs should look extremely smooth and be powerful throughout. (How can you be powerful when the skaters in front of you are moving so slow? By passing around them on an imaginary larger circle! But they may not like you much.) As each foot passes underneath you, it should be deeply bent. If you really want to do it right, the way a good ice dancer (or moves skater??) might, as each foot pushes outside the circle to its fullest extent, it should extend all the way straight while on the ice, then lift smoothly off the ice.

(Though you won't normally see great cross-overs in televised freestyle and pairs skating, because high level freestyle and pairs skaters don't get nearly as many points from clean strokes and cross-overs as they do from clean jumps and spins. Also, what I described isn't always optimal technique in hockey or speed skating.)

Part of the reason that cross-overs aren't handled well in most group lessons is that they previously let you get away with coming off those edges and proper posture during pumps. So use the pump practice time to practice staying fully on the correct edges, and keeping the right posture. And if you really want to do it right, the foot that stays on the circle should stay deeply bent all the time, and the foot outside the circle should be deeply bent when it is under you, but straight when farthest from the circle. Learning to do pumps well will eventually help make your crossovers clean.

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Maybe you can find about 2 or 3 students of similar bent to you, and jointly hire a coach whose teaching style you like to teach you round-robin, giving equal time to each student? If the coach is good and is able to manage time fairly, you don't all have to be the same age or be learning the same skills.

But maybe the best answer, for all of us, is to break free of our skating addictions? In a lot of sports, you get instant feedback on proper technique, because improper technique is so obviously inefficient or ineffective that you notice it immediately. E.g., you become rapidly sore when jogging or paddling, you don't succeed in making a rock climbing move. In sword-fighting, you die. Etc. In figure skating, a lot of proper technique lies in purely artificial aesthetic standards. I'm not even sure that moves which are considered correct in figure skating are always particularly healthy.

[jlspink22]

For my daughter, LTS is glorified practice and socialization that she still needs at just turned 6.  But she's also the strongest skater and an attention hog so she goes back and forth between that and being a helper.

Her best improvements have come with having a private coach whose tough but positive and a mom (me) who backs up the coach and takes her to practice regularly.

[jlspink22]

And my daughter has been working on all of the pre-pre requirements for spins and jumps yet still is in freeskate 1 because there can never be enough practice of foundational skills.

[Feebee]

So in summation, it sounds like LTS is kind of hit or miss in terms of class size and instructor quality.

Honestly, the biggest thing I'm gaining out of it is that it gives me a reason/motivation to practice in general (outside LTS), and ice time is ice time. Thanks for the replies everyone! (Shout out to Query for always being so generous in your responses - Some helpful tips there on crossovers).

I'll move back to privates once I'm established in my new hometown.