Edeas

[PhysicsOnIce]

Due to a multitude of reasons, which most of the regulars readers now, I need to skates.
Both Coach I and Coach M are recommending Edeas and I am torn because the Jacksons Preimeres/Elites and Edeas Ice Fly. The thing is that last time I tried on the Edeas I had a lot of discomfort in the arch, but both Coach I and Coach M are very set on that fact that the can be remolded to fit my arch much better. There is also an almost 200 euro price difference, and while I've been offered my next skates as a Birthday Present from DBF, I don't want to waste his money by getting skates that will case me even more problems that I already have.

Do any of you ladies and gentleman have any experience in 'customizing' /'shaping your edeas? How did it work? Did it really work? Have you noticed any ill effects? Cheers

[davincisop]

Yes. Edea Ice Fly stretched to an E/EE width, plus added in my own footbed (CCM hockey footbed for high arch). Only minor issues now which only happen when I am off the ice too long (arch cramps). Other than that, LOVE them.

But the insert that came with Edeas would never have supported my foot. I also added in a sesamoid pad in my right boot and a squishy makeup pad disc under the ball of both skates under the insert. MacGuivered a lot of it, but it's working for me.

[Jenna]

It seems like adults love Ice Flys after adding things to make them better.  To me, they are too expensive to have to tweak with other things or add $$ orthotics to get support and make them work.  The concept of them is something that appeals to me, but not the reality.

[Query]

You are going to reshape them yourself? Wow...

When you heat mold an ordinary boot, you are just getting it hot enough to be "plastic" (in the sense of permanently moldable - not in the chemical sense). When you heat mold a fiber/resin composite like Edea, you may be doing doing a lot more, possibly getting it so hot that the fibers change in length, or some of the resin reacts chemically and shrinks, and the resin and other boot materials may have to be right on the edge of melting or burning. AFAICT, Edea's website doesn't say the boots are heat moldable - it might be a customization introduced by a brave and knowledgeable distributor (namely, David Rippon). (BTW, David told me that some people's feet, including mine, are not shaped right for Edeas, even with heat molding. In my case, my toes are substantially wider than my heel, plus I am midway between Edea sizes.)

I have no fear of cautiously heat molding ordinary skate boots myself with a hair drier. (Exception: high end GAMs mold at 300 deg F; hair driers aren't hot enough, from my experience.) But, I wouldn't dare heat mold Edeas myself - would leave that to experts.

Any modern figure skating boot is extremely stiff near the bottom of the boot ("PhysicsOnIce" can figure out why), so it isn't a matter of stiffness providing enough sideways support, as is important in aerobics shoes, you just need the shape right. If you genuinely want to do it yourself, wouldn't it be easier and safer to get boots with a little extra space, and add in foam and/or tape to give you exactly the shape you need? (About the equivalent of having a podiatrist or PT mold you orthotics.)

Or maybe I mis-understood, and an expert dealer, who will assume financial liability for damage, is going to do the reshaping... In which case, ignore me. 

[PhysicsOnIce]

You are going to reshape them yourself? Wow...

Or maybe I mis-understood, and an expert dealer is going to do the reshaping... In which case, ignore me. 

Thanks Query!! Dear God... Nooooo way that I am going to do that myself. According to the Edea website, all their reps are suppose to be trained in the reshaping of their boots. So, I suppose that our skate tech. I definitively want to leave it the experts. I've had way too many problem this year with my boots to risk anything going wrong with the next pair.

[Query]

Can you give me a link?

I don't read Italian, but the English part of Edea's own website

  http://ice.edeaskates.com

doesn't seem to say that. Possibly, David Ripp's site, the main North American distributor, does.

P.S. I meant Ripp, not Rippon, in my first response. Oops.

[PhysicsOnIce]

Here is the link:

http://ice.edeaskates.com/en/features/instant-custom-fit/

The website is a bit hard to find info.

[Christy]

I tried on both the Ice Fly and Concerto and they were two extremes when it came to fit. As others have said the insole supplied by Edea is basically useless and provides much less support than the Jackson insole.
I would be wary of having to reshape the boot too much as that could affect the support - as Query said you want a dealer who will work with you to get the boot to fit.

[Query]

Here is the link:

http://ice.edeaskates.com/en/features/instant-custom-fit/

The website is a bit hard to find info.

Very true. I just wasted 10 minutes trying to navigate to that page by pointing and clicking from the home page. I failed.

I humbly admit your superiority as a master web surfer.

[amy1984]

Due to a multitude of reasons, which most of the regulars readers now, I need to skates.

I didn't buy Edea so I don't have thoughts on that.  But I wanted to ask if you're currently in Jackson's and like them?  If so, why bother switching?  I had Jackson and Gam for years and then decided out of the blue that I wanted something different and switched.  Then went back to Jackson.  (Feel free to substitute any other brand in there... the point I'm making is consistently using a brand...)  I don't think switching and dealing with all the adjusting that usually goes with it is worth it if you're happy in the brand you're in.

[PhysicsOnIce]

I didn't buy Edea so I don't have thoughts on that.  But I wanted to ask if you're currently in Jackson's and like them?  If so, why bother switching?  I had Jackson and Gam for years and then decided out of the blue that I wanted something different and switched.  Then went back to Jackson.  (Feel free to substitute any other brand in there... the point I'm making is consistently using a brand...)  I don't think switching and dealing with all the adjusting that usually goes with it is worth it if you're happy in the brand you're in.

I'm actually in Sp-Teri's KT2. Until my last pair, I would have sworn by them. They are the skates I worn when I was much young (8-12) while I skated, so I figured I would give them another try since I loved them back then. However my last pair was fitted almost a 1.5 sizes too small, which has caused me to have a chronic Ankle bursitis, two sprained ankles and the tendonitis that comes with it, lots of time off the ice, and lots of pain generally on the ice. I have not switched earlier because I really wanted these skates to work. I love working with George Sp-Teri and think they are a great company, but I calculated the total cost of these skates (including travel to CA for refitting and reconstruction of the boots and Medical bills) and I'm well into the thousands.  So I think it is time for a change.

I live in Europe where getting Sp-Teri's is like finding a diamond in the Arizona desert. So I've started to look at other options. Last Year I tried on the Jackson Premiere and the Elites and they both felt super comfortable, infact too comfortable to be a skating boot... They really did feel like running shoes to me. But my coaches are both pushing Edeas, which has obviously made me think twice about them.  On top of that the Jacksons run between 200-400 € and the Edeas run 420€, which for that price I could get two pair and still end up financially a head of what it would cost me to get new Sp-Teris.

[DressmakingMomma]

My daughter wears the ice fly. Go to a good tech, we drove 3-1/2 hours to find someone knowledgeable. They can be shaped, dd has a wide ball and toes and narrow heels (E/A). Heat molding them yourself is not hard with a hairdryer and I ended up buying a boot stretcher after our tech showed me how. They seem to want to return to their original shape, so using the stretcher once a month has been necessary to keep the ball/toe area opened up.

The transition was HARD for DD, but we're at the three month mark and she is mostly comfortable. We didn't spend money on expensive insoles, just played around with cheap drugstore products. What works for DD is the cheap foam insoles and a high density foam ball of foot pad under the arch and partially smooshed up the side of her boot. The ones meant for the arch aren't big around enough and too thick while the ball of foot pads are larger and thinner. I also keep a pack of lambswool in her skate bag to shove in if something feels uncomfortable.

They aren't perfect, but neither has any other boot been. With these, I have some control over changing what isn't working because they are shape-able. Weeks of waiting for customs for a kid who grows overnight can be a huge hindrance to progression, and these are immediately available so that's another plus for us. I wish I could get my hands on the wider sizes, because I have a feeling they would be a perfect fit instead of working so hard to make a narrower boot wider.

On the plus side, she loves how light they are, the padding in the ice fly is awesomely comfortable, the higher heel has done wonders for her skating, these are the most flexible boot she has worn in terms of toe point and knee bend, and they are much easier to tie - no more lace burn on the fingers. It would have been easy to give up on making them work because they were so painful to DD in the beginning, but we're both glad we didn't.

[davincisop]

It may sound like we do a lot of customization to them, but we would be spending no less (honestly probably more) if we went for a fully custom boot that may or may not work. In my case, I'm in Florida where options to try on skates are very limited. My last pair, Jacksons, were customized with an E width, and they still didn't fit well. I was measured by a Jackson rep, too. They just don't work for my feet well enough to stay with them (but they were LOADS better than Reidells I was in previously). With Edeas, we have a rep at my rink who fit me for the skates, and let me make sure they could be custom to my feet (traced my foot and sent it to his rep above him) before I committed. He also ordered sizes as needed for me to try to make sure I got the right fit in boots. It's the first time I've ever been confident about buying a skate boot and so far I've had no issues (other than my arch cramping when I've been off too long). They are by far the most comfortable boots I have owned and plan on sticking with them.

[Neverdull44]

Edea Ice Fly - The boot allows for zero lateral ankle movement; and my coach said that the coaching conference said that the is best for advance skaters (which is you).   

I have Ice Fly for a year.  My first month was HELL.  I have foot and ankle issues (plantar fascitus, heel bumps, ankle tendon).  The footbed arch was not moldable enough.   The Edea insole sucks.   It's just a thin pad (like a panty liner . . .really).    I had to buy custom orthotics, (to the tune of $700).   You could try those Yellowfeet/Bluefeet (for about 50).  But, if those don't work, then make sure you can afford orthotics on top of the expensive boot.  With the orthotics, I'm very comfortable, stable, and feel power.

The "lace strap" (accessory) is a must.   I don't like all the "bend forward" that the boot gives.  It can get loose feeling, but the straps hold things together. I also wear bunga pads, because I want that level of support around my ankle.

The Ice Fly is lighter.  It will mess up your camel spin for a few weeks as it's like going from ankle weights to no ankle weights.  The heel is high.  You will be scratching your toe pick for a few weeks.

In the end, a skate is a skate.  Our brains adjust.   Kids that get the Ice Fly adjust in a few hours.  It took me a few weeks/month.  But, I will still scratch on my loop entrances.   Not the skate's fault.  It's me.  I'm sure Max Aaron could do a double toe loop in rental skates.  I, honestly, don't know if I would pick Edea again.  But, I got too much invested in them now.

Oh, Concerto are lower than the Ice Fly, but are a much tougher skate.   My fitter (one of the best in the nation) said that the Concerto is better for men, but just too stiff for women.   Top level men break down the Ice Flies in just a few months, so he's putting them in Concerto with no problem.  He has mainly men pairs skaters, at a top rink in the country.

[PhysicsOnIce]

Hmm... it sounds like the opinions are really mixed at the beginning but somewhere  people seem to end up loving them. That's really interesting. I'm definitively considering  the Ice Fly, since any boot that is strong enough for Meagan DUHAMEL is way too strong for me so the concertos are out.

I actually emailed me Skate Tech and asked a battery of very specific questions, which resulted in her making the suggestion that a) I come see her (surprise, surprise) and a b) I get custom Edeas ( I did not even know they made custom Edeas) .

Here part of her email:
"I would suggest ( like I already did with a lot of skaters) that I take a mold of your feet with the foam imprint provided by EDEA.  Then I send it to EDEA and they take all the measurements and make the adjustments needed. the price is the same as the standard boots, you can have the custom made boot in the different models. the delivery time is around 1 month."

Also, the comment that the insoles are thin is really interesting because Sp-teri insoles are simply a piece of leather, no padding at all, which helps you lay flat in the boot. I guess I'll have to see how things work. 

David- Did you have them make imprints of your feet or just drawings?

Neverdull- I'm glad to hear that it can work with orthotics. My podoloist already made the suggestion that I come see him again as soon as I have new boots. I know that some skaters complain that they feel they can't tie the edeas tight enough at the top, but that they still feel secure in the boot. Is that the case? and I suppose you don't experience heel slippage. How high would you say the heel is? 

[Neverdull44]

I wear a "255" length.  My heel is 5cm  or 2" (from the back of the skate boot to the blade, at the back seam).   My orthotics add about another centimeter inside the boot, but I didn't notice it too much when I added them. (They go down where the heel seats) Because the Edea sole is thin, the ball of my foot and toes are right above the blade.  Thus, the heel also seems a little higher because of the zero sole thickness.

When in the pro-shop, I thought the Edeas were very comfortable.    I was amazed.   I had little issue sitting and standing in them through the 2+ hour fitting.   But, on the ice was a different story.    The podiatrist explained that when a foot is not supported, the  muscles work too hard in the boot.  This caused lactic acid to build up about 10 minutes into skating.   Lactic acid caused terrible cramps  and wrenching pain.   I had to take the boots OFF ASAP.   I thought it was "break in" pain, so I started wearing them at home.   But, when walking down stairs in my boots, I cracked the navicular bone in my left foot.  I now have an accessory navicular bone that bulges out from scar tissue buildup.   I had to punch out the boot to accommodate it.   The orthopedist tried to aspirate it, thinking it was a cyst.  Nope, it's solid, scar tissue bump just on the left foot.

I had my second kid 100% natural childbirth, and the first was almost natural.  The foot cramping was up there with childbirth, except that there was no rest between contractions.   

[fsk8r]

I've a young friend on her second pair of Edeas. The first pair she loved. Bought a replacement pair when her feet grew and she hates them. Terrible terrible foot cramping issues. She just can't make them work for her. She's had custom insoles added, they fixed the problem for a week or two and then the cramping came back.
Her other issue is that she hates how loose they feel at the top and has a convoluted routine to tie the top of the boots tighter and tapes them there. She just won't jump with them feeling loose. I don't know whether these two problem are connected...
But she loves how light the boots are and is scared to move back to other boots because of the weight differential.

I can only pass opinion on Jacksons and absolutely love the boots as they really suit my foot shape. I would incidentally say the heel height is pretty similar between Jackson and Edea so they both have a higher heel relative to other manufacturers like Graf.

[Christy]

I actually emailed me Skate Tech and asked a battery of very specific questions, which resulted in her making the suggestion that a) I come see her (surprise, surprise) and a b) I get custom Edeas ( I did not even know they made custom Edeas) .

My understanding is that you can get custom Edeas in Europe, but when I called the NA distributor they said it wasn't an option. I seem to recall you are based in Europe so have the wider fitting and custom options.

[amy1984]

Last Year I tried on the Jackson Premiere and the Elites and they both felt super comfortable, infact too comfortable to be a skating boot... They really did feel like running shoes to me. But my coaches are both pushing Edeas, which has obviously made me think twice about them.  On top of that the Jacksons run between 200-400 € and the Edeas run 420€, which for that price I could get two pair and still end up financially a head of what it would cost me to get new Sp-Teris.

I wear Jackson and I can attest to the fact that they felt like running shoes.  Make sure they're fit right though, and they're great.  I had no break in time with mine.  Wore them to a test day the first week I got them.  They are that comfortable.  Maybe Edea's are too.  I really don't know as we have no dealers where I live.  I'm a little curious about them but not curious enough to drive a few hours to check them out   Too bad you had such a bad time with your last SP-Teri's.  The only thing I'd mention with my Jackson's is that I had a really weird period where they hurt... lasted about 2 months and then just went away... it was odd. 

[PhysicsOnIce]

My understanding is that you can get custom Edeas in Europe, but when I called the NA distributor they said it wasn't an option. I seem to recall you are based in Europe so have the wider fitting and custom options.

Yeah after talking to my tech it seems that in Europe we have options up to a EE width and the custom option. I find it weird that you guys in the states don't have these options. You should really have them even if only upon request. From the procedure that my tech described, fitting the custom skates is not too complex and inf act EDEA does most of the work.

[Query]

The info I have is that before modification, Jackson and Edea boot designs presume different foot shapes. So people who fit one well might not fit the other well. Does the lady who answered your questions offer a money back guarantee on boot fit, the way most of the custom boot makers do?

>I actually emailed me Skate Tech and asked a battery of very specific questions, which resulted in her
>making the suggestion that a) I come see her (surprise, surprise)

If she is really good, it's great advice, because 2nd rate fitters often do a terrible job, which create terrible problems.

[Loops]

Here part of her email:
"I would suggest ( like I already did with a lot of skaters) that I take a mold of your feet with the foam imprint provided by EDEA.  Then I send it to EDEA and they take all the measurements and make the adjustments needed. the price is the same as the standard boots, you can have the custom made boot in the different models. the delivery time is around 1 month."

Now this just might be the most interesting thing I've heard in a loooong time.  When I tried on the Flamenco they were way too wide in the heel, so I've written off Edeas.  Maybe they should be put back on the list!

Good luck getting new skates, and I really hope you have a much better experience this time!!!

[Query]

If you go with them, and you have a "Jackson foot", i'd love to hear how well their semi-custom fit goes for you. Though I don't need boots at present.

[Christy]

Query, I supposedly have a Jackson foot, and was happy with my Elites, but swapped to the Ice Fly after a foot injury without any molding. First few weeks were incredibly painful as I got used to the higher heel and replaced the insoles with Superfeet Yellow and I would have loved the option of the wider boot but things are going well.

[Query]

I supposedly have a Jackson foot, and was happy with my Elites, but swapped to the Ice Fly after a foot injury without any molding. First few weeks were incredibly painful as I got used to the higher heel and replaced the insoles with Superfeet Yellow and I would have loved the option of the wider boot but things are going well.

The Superfeet Yellow should actually make the high heel more of a problem, because it raises them further, according to their ads. It is possible that if instead you made an insole that raised the forefoot, but kept the hind foot low, that might lessen the chance of injuring yourself from too high a heel for your flexibility - provided their is enough space inside the boots to do that. Or did you manage to stretch yourself to that point the pain is gone.

Maybe you can still get your Ice Fly boots widened by one of the expert fitters who modifies Edeas?