Training for the Olympics?

[Isk8NYC]

I try to avoid coaching my own kids for this very reason.  It's not a good mix unless you have the perfect parent and the perfectly cooperative child.  My kids ask me to help them when they really just want an excuse to use the harness, lol.  They get disappointed when I have them do jump and spin drills.  The "help" session pretty much goes downhill from there. 

Yet, I rarely get that attitude from my students.  They just listen and work hard.

FWIW, I'd mind my own business - it's their money and time.  You never know what can happen with a lifestyle change like this.

[jumpingbeansmom]

I try to avoid coaching my own kids for this very reason.  It's not a good mix unless you have the perfect parent and the perfectly cooperative child.  My kids ask me to help them when they really just want an excuse to use the harness, lol.  They get disappointed when I have them do jump and spin drills.  The "help" session pretty much goes downhill from there. 

Yet, I rarely get that attitude from my students.  They just listen and work hard.

FWIW, I'd mind my own business - it's their money and time.  You never know what can happen with a lifestyle change like this.

I have no intention of saying anything at all to them!  I was just stunned by it all

[Sierra]

Well, they picked a new coach, locally-  a guy from the Ukraine, who seems to be a good coach-  his own daughter is a phenomenal skater with several triples under her belt- I think she is 15.   However, the daughter is crying just about every day when her father is coaching her....maybe he will be different with someone else's child, but I have my doubts I guess.   It doesn't seem to me she went to someone gentler.  

This seems to happen a lot, doesn't it.. kid of the famous coach is forced into being star skater, and coach seems oblivious to their daughter/son really hating it..

Guess you'll have to wait and see what happens. Nothing you can do. I am still quite steamed, but seeing as there is nothing I can do..

[Isk8NYC]

I think there's some conclusion-jumping going on here.  I've seen skaters have meltdowns on every lesson with coaches that aren't their parents.  My heart breaks for them, but when their parents suggest taking a break from skating or quitting entirely, the skaters insist they want to be there and training.  That doesn't mean anyone's being forced into skating or someone else is being oblivious. 

It just means that one or both of the involved parties (none of you, btw) need to find a different way to express their frustration or anger and open up a dialog to resolve the problem.  That's part of being a coach vs. being an instructor - you have to channel that emotion into productive methods that lead to communication and resolution.  If it means stopping skating, fine. 

You shouldn't joke in public about stalking people because it creates a permanent record of a threat.  

[jumpingbeansmom]

I think there's some conclusion-jumping going on here.  I've seen skaters have meltdowns on every lesson with coaches that aren't their parents.  My heart breaks for them, but when their parents suggest taking a break from skating or quitting entirely, the skaters insist they want to be there and training.  That doesn't mean anyone's being forced into skating or someone else is being oblivious. 

It just means that one or both of the involved parties (none of you, btw) need to find a different way to express their frustration or anger and open up a dialog to resolve the problem.  That's part of being a coach vs. being an instructor - you have to channel that emotion into productive methods that lead to communication and resolution.  If it means stopping skating, fine. 

You shouldn't joke in public about stalking people because it creates a permanent record of a threat.  

Oh, there is no doubt, my kids has the occassional melt downs too-  but every day seems, well, not good.

[Sierra]

mm, thanks.

A kid who has constant meltdowns/cries/throws tantrums.. if they are not doing it because they don't want to skate/be with that coach/etc (as would be the immediate conclusion ), then I lose all sympathy for them, seeing as the reason they are crying is either because they weren't brought up right or want attention.

I was recently in an off ice class, any healthy child could have done it, but many of the kids were crying and faking stomach problems. Why? Because their parents didn't teach them any better.

I agree that every day, all the time, seems not so good, but that's another thing nobody can do anything about.

[twokidsskatemom]

mm, thanks.

A kid who has constant meltdowns/cries/throws tantrums.. if they are not doing it because they don't want to skate/be with that coach/etc (as would be the immediate conclusion ), then I lose all sympathy for them, seeing as the reason they are crying is either because they weren't brought up right or want attention.

I was recently in an off ice class, any healthy child could have done it, but many of the kids were crying and faking stomach problems. Why? Because their parents didn't teach them any better.

I agree that every day, all the time, seems not so good, but that's another thing nobody can do anything about.

It seems weird that you said... many of the kids were faking. How did you come up with that idea?It does seem you have an bias on not liking kids, or thinking they are divas.
Some are, I am sure. But they are people just like adults, and we all have off days!!

[TreSk8sAZ]

A kid who has constant meltdowns/cries/throws tantrums.. if they are not doing it because they don't want to skate/be with that coach/etc (as would be the immediate conclusion ), then I lose all sympathy for them, seeing as the reason they are crying is either because they weren't brought up right or want attention.

I was recently in an off ice class, any healthy child could have done it, but many of the kids were crying and faking stomach problems. Why? Because their parents didn't teach them any better.

I agree that every day, all the time, seems not so good, but that's another thing nobody can do anything about.

Or, maybe the child has some sort of mental problem that doesn't allow them to interact socially correctly, or the child gets frustrated easily and while the parents have "taught them better" it is something they must work on, or any other number of reasons.

I skated with a child that was like that. Her parents were as frustrated as she was as to why she would meltdown during a lesson when she couldn't get a difficult jump right away, or she was having trouble with footwork, or whatever the issue was that day. Each day was different in severity, and good days there were no meltdowns. This child was immensely talented, loved skating and wanted to be there, wasn't doing it for attention, and didn't have the same problem in school or anything else.

Her parents tried everything - pulling her off the ice, making her stay on the ice, a number of different things. She just was so passionate about skating and loved it so much, she couldn't handle not doing it well. Her parents and coaches tried to get her to redirect, but ultimately it took professional help.

Her parents are wonderful people and did everything they could. It would be highly unfair to claim they didn't raise her right, as they did and instilled wonderful values.

I won't disagree that those parents are out there that push their children when they don't want to skate, or have unrealistic dreams for their children, or the children do just want attention. But blanket statements and judgments may not be correct.

As far as the OP, switching coaches at the pre-juv level and claiming to be training for the Olympics may seem unrealistic, but unless it's actively hurting or endangering the child, then I don't see a problem (other than the parents may look poorly in others eyes, but hey, they'll learn).

[twokidsskatemom]

This seems to happen a lot, doesn't it.. kid of the famous coach is forced into being star skater, and coach seems oblivious to their daughter/son really hating it..

Guess you'll have to wait and see what happens. Nothing you can do. I am still quite steamed, but seeing as there is nothing I can do..

Would love to hear some examples of famous coaches making their kids skate?
I am sure it happens now and then, but really dont think the rinks are overun with these skaters..

[Sierra]

It seems weird that you said... many of the kids were faking. How did you come up with that idea?It does seem you have an bias on not liking kids, or thinking they are divas.
Some are, I am sure. But they are people just like adults, and we all have off days!!

Because, they are also the type of kids who make a big deal out of falling down (there was one poor little girl who got her hand run over by a blade, but all the other falls were not serious at all) and don't listen to the coaches, and ask people to tie their skates when I know they are capable of tying their own skates (have seen them tie their own skates with no adults around), and such. There were nice kids in the group, but many of them were like this. Not little tiny kids either.. like 10 yr olds. The off ice was honestly not that hard, and most of them tried the faking thing at the beginning, when we were simply running around to warm up. Unless all of them already had a severely upset stomach or have a serious breathing/muscular condition (in which circumstance they shouldn't be skating anyway), they were most likely faking. You didn't see them in this situation.. please don't accuse me of being biased against kids.

Or, maybe the child has some sort of mental problem that doesn't allow them to interact socially correctly, or the child gets frustrated easily and while the parents have "taught them better" it is something they must work on, or any other number of reasons.

There are, of course, the exceptions, but not every child is like that.

Would love to hear some examples of famous coaches making their kids skate?
I am sure it happens now and then, but really dont think the rinks are overun with these skaters..

Well, maybe there aren't that many of them

OT here, back to the olympic kid??

[twokidsskatemom]

Because, they are also the type of kids who make a big deal out of falling down (there was one poor little girl who got her hand run over by a blade, but all the other falls were not serious at all) and don't listen to the coaches, and ask people to tie their skates when I know they are capable of tying their own skates (have seen them tie their own skates with no adults around), and such. There were nice kids in the group, but many of them were like this. Not little tiny kids either.. like 10 yr olds. The off ice was honestly not that hard, and most of them tried the faking thing at the beginning, when we were simply running around to warm up. Unless all of them already had a severely upset stomach or have a serious breathing/muscular condition (in which circumstance they shouldn't be skating anyway), they were most likely faking. You didn't see them in this situation.. please don't accuse me of being biased against kids.
There are, of course, the exceptions, but not every child is like that. Well, maybe there aren't that many of them

OT here, back to the olympic kid??

Because I would find it hard to believe that MOST of the kids in an off ice class would be faking illness to get out of it.I have been  around skate kids for more than 7 years and I dont think that MOST would fake it.I am just making you see that it doesnt make sense.You said you skated out of a rink that had Kids doing Triples, I dont see them letting  skaters fake it to get out of off ice.
There will always be kids who dont want it as much as parents, but they do end up stopping.

[sleepyhead]

As a former athlete who had a teenaged crybaby phase myself, my own bias was to assume the coach's 15 y/o must be one of those perfectionists who cares intensely because she's so passionate and dedicated ...

[Sierra]

Because I would find it hard to believe that MOST of the kids in an off ice class would be faking illness to get out of it.I have been  around skate kids for more than 7 years and I dont think that MOST would fake it.I am just making you see that it doesnt make sense.You said you skated out of a rink that had Kids doing Triples, I dont see them letting  skaters fake it to get out of off ice.

They didn't get out of it And it was many.. not most. Most of the kids I see around the rink are not this bad, but for some reason the off ice had a larger concentration. (It was part of a skating camp.)

I really wish not to continue this discussion, seeing as the thread was originally about a family that thinks their daughter is going to the Olympics.

[techskater]

Back OT, this is not an uncommon occurence in figure skating.  We often joke that figure skating engenders its own special kind of delusion. 

At 11, if the kid doesn't already rotate most double jumps, I find this a far stretch, but anything is possible, I guess.   &)  Even kids who show a natural affinity for skating don't all make it even to Nationals.  Last year there were 117 Intermediate Ladies at Upper Great Lakes Regionals.  Only 6 moved on to Junior Nationals (and did very well, I might add, I think almost all of them made FR and one made the podium for sure).  UGL was the largest Intermediate Ladies field last year, but let's assume the other 8 regions averaged 75 Intermediate Ladies, so there were approximately 700 Intermediate Ladies competing across the country to get 4 podium spots.  Those aren't great odds, even if you are a very strong skater, because let's face it, you could have a bad day.  Many skaters quit competing at this level and decide to just test out because they get discouraged, if they don't quit altogether!  From there, you move up to Novice which probably had 400-500 competitors at the 9 Regionals vying for 4 spots on the National podium (and have to make it through Sectionals as well!)  Also, then there's the Juniors and the Seniors (but the numbers are lower there).  On top of all that, there's the potential for injury and the ever so scary puberty monster that gets a lot of talented skaters...But good luck to them!

[isakswings]

I think there's some conclusion-jumping going on here.  I've seen skaters have meltdowns on every lesson with coaches that aren't their parents.  My heart breaks for them, but when their parents suggest taking a break from skating or quitting entirely, the skaters insist they want to be there and training.  That doesn't mean anyone's being forced into skating or someone else is being oblivious. 

It just means that one or both of the involved parties (none of you, btw) need to find a different way to express their frustration or anger and open up a dialog to resolve the problem.  That's part of being a coach vs. being an instructor - you have to channel that emotion into productive methods that lead to communication and resolution.  If it means stopping skating, fine. 

You shouldn't joke in public about stalking people because it creates a permanent record of a threat.  

Yup. I would agree. There are a couple of skaters in my daughter's club who are like this. Don't assume they are being forced on the ice. One girl in particular LOVES to skate but has meltdowns. To be honest, I think ALL skaters(and sometimes their parents...lol) have their moments. Some just do a much better job of working through their emotions then others do. My daughter has never had a meltdown on ice, but she HAS completely lost her confidence. When that happens, it usually results in a very OFF day. She gets frustrated too, she just expresses it in another way...and one way is losing her confidence. Every skater is different.

[sleepyhead]

....We have been told point blank from the parents ...they are going to split the family to train her for the Olympics....Seriously,  I was stunned into silence....I just nodded my head and said, good luck to you.  Would you have done anything different???

My experience this week was not that extreme - but it certainly did put me on guard against any delusions I may have developed in the future. 
I went out of my way to compliment another little skater to her mother because I was feeling quite sorry for her. In my inexperienced, unqualified eye I thought she'd been struggling badly with LTS. But her mother beamed and told me how excited she was to have such an unusually talented child. 
Clearly we parents have no clue and are amazingly biased.  It does make us incredibly vulnerable though to a coach's opinion.
It started me wondering about what - if any - sort of coach's comments should be relied upon about one's child's competitive potential?

[MadMac]

In my inexperienced, unqualified eye I thought she'd been struggling badly with LTS. But her mother beamed and told me how excited she was to have such an unusually talented child. 

Could the comment have been humorous sarcasm on the mother's part? "Unusually talented" could have been her way of saying the child is a klutz, tho determined to conquer the skills.

[Sierra]

It started me wondering about what - if any - sort of coach's comments should be relied upon about one's child's competitive potential?

The coach knows all about a child's competitive potential. The parent knows nothing about it. The difference is if the coach actually does think the child has potential or if they're just trying to reel you in. "Susie is amazingly talented, I see Nationals in her future, she should start having more lessons per week.." uh, no. "Susie has been showing great promise and progress in her training, would you like to set competitive goals for her.." Parents just have to know the difference.

My mother tries to differentiate between good and bad in my skating, is sometimes right and sometimes not. Asks me- "Wasn't that a good spin?" Well, kind of, not really. She doesn't really seem biased. She doesn't seem very involved either, so that is probably why. I can see how mothers of very little kids and the "We" mothers can be biased, though.

[twokidsskatemom]

The coach knows all about a child's competitive potential. The parent knows nothing about it. The difference is if the coach actually does think the child has potential or if they're just trying to reel you in. "Susie is amazingly talented, I see Nationals in her future, she should start having more lessons per week.." uh, no. "Susie has been showing great promise and progress in her training, would you like to set competitive goals for her.." Parents just have to know the difference.

My mother tries to differentiate between good and bad in my skating, is sometimes right and sometimes not. Asks me- "Wasn't that a good spin?" Well, kind of, not really. She doesn't really seem biased. She doesn't seem very involved either, so that is probably why. I can see how mothers of very little kids and the "We" mothers can be biased, though.

Sorry dont agree. Coaches arent God, and really cant tell how a  skater will end up doing in the long run.They might see clues, but then so might a parent.It really is slow and steady, and its a long long process.

[Sk8tmum]

Many parents are ex-skaters, many are intelligent people who have taken the time to learn about the sport, many are judges, evaluators, or knowledgeable about athletics and trainability in general; some are even coaches!  Don't underestimate us  . 

If there was a coach who could, honestly, consistently and accurately, predict the trajectory of a skater's career, that coach would be flying around the world evaluating skaters like crazy. They can look for traits, but, Lord knows, there are no guarantees.  Don't forget, a lot of very high level coaches don't take kids from Step on the Ice to Step on the Olympic Podium ... they often get them when they are well into their skating career, and well along the way to where they will be (yes, there are exceptions ... some coaches really do like to have a skater's whole career in their hands).

[sleepyhead]

Could the comment have been humorous sarcasm on the mother's part? "Unusually talented" could have been her way of saying the child is a klutz, tho determined to conquer the skills.

Sadly no. It came at the end of a long speech about her grace and artistry and how worried she is about the younger sibs who are going to have to grow up living in the 7 y/os superstar shadow.
Admittedly she did win her first LTS level recently (and she did have one competitor). 

[kssk8fan]

Skating is roughly 97% mental.  As with anything, we, as parents, always tell our children to believe in themselves, set goals (dreams), make a plan, and follow through.  All skaters should have short term, long term and if applicable, competition goals.  Sometimes, the long term goals seem more like a pipedream but nonetheless, these are our skaters goals.   As with anything in regards to our children, we do whatever it takes to help our children reach their goals (dreams).

One of the things I have learned by being a parent of a skater is that her goals are her goals.  They are certainly not mine, although I do, as a parent have the luxury of guiding her in the best direction.  For instance - "getting a medal" used to be her focus...now - not so much!  It took a while, but after continuous discussions and repetitive brainwashing (haha...just kidding), she now realizes she just needs to give 100% when she competes.  It's made a huge difference in how she views competitions as well as her competitors.  Mostly - it's changed the way she approaches skating - she skates, practices, and competes for herself now without thought about her "competition".

One of the things I used as a brainwashing, oops I mean explanation, was that although she has goals and a plan and she knows very well what those are, she has no clue what her friends or competitors goals and plans are.  It really helped her understand how "individual" this sport really is.  It's about individual accomplishments that make the skater all warm and glittery inside!

With that said....onto the original posters comments.....

Yes, we all know the chance of going to the Olympics is slim to quite slim!  With all the skaters out there vying for so few spots at sectionals, nationals, junior nationals, etc....  it's really next to impossible.  We have what, a couple hundred thousand skaters every year in the US?  Yeah, it's pretty unreasonable that the average skater will advance and most do quit competing around juv/intermediate b/c it gets so difficult to hang on. 

With that said....I look at football....I have no clue how many little kids are playing/learning the game of football.  I could probably look it up but I'll suffice to say it's quite a bit more than a couple hundred thousand.  Yes, there are many, many more spots in professional football vs. the highest levels of figure skating.  But, I'd bet the ratios are similar.  Yet - we let these boys have pipedreams about playing in the NFL when they grow up.  We let them decorate their rooms with their idols, we even buy jersey with their idols names on the back.  We certainly don't tell them "you'll never make the pro's"  and we don't look at our friends kids that play football and say "who does he think he is giving his son more time in the front yard catching passes"....or "can you believe he thinks his son will play in the pros".  No - that attitude doesn't really exist....  you may have a parent a little jealous that Johnny gets to start each game and he's not that much better than billy, who is second string,  but yeah - he "might" work harder at practice.    Usually, the kids find their passion and continue working hard or decide football isn't for them, or they get cut from a team, or don't make the college team, etc......   It's okay - they usually know whether they have what it takes or not. 

However, in skating - it's always how this skater thinks she's all that but doesn't have a _______ at this age so she's not going anywhere.  Or Suzy's parents make her stay on the ice for hours and hours, yes she's progressing but she's always crying.   Or Buffie's parents think she's going to the olympics....can you believe they think that....she's only in snowplow sam 2!  Some one needs to tell her it's not possible, now!  Or, my absolute favorite..... She's good only because her parents can afford all the ice time and lessons! 

In this highly competitive sport of figure skating - the sport is hard enough, mentally and physically, without all the negativity being thrown around.  I honestly think the skaters that make it to the highest level aren't the skaters that showed the most success when they were young or had the best coaches or the most ice time....I believe it's the skaters that persevered when times were tough, held on and never wavered from their goals (dreams), and mostly - had a passion for their sport of choice. 

To the OP - the skater in question could very well be our country's next Olympian....who's to say she won't be!  If she has the passion, support, and inner drive to get to where she needs to be - who knows what will happen.   I certainly cannot predict the future.  I think we, as parents need to support our children's dreams without crushing the dreams of others.  I think our skaters would benefit a little if we understood that if our kids were football players, the NFL would be the ultimate goal and we'd probably be okay with that! 

[falen]

kssk8fan I just wanted to say I really loved your post.   

[sk8Joyful]

Skating is roughly 97% mental.  
As with anything, we, as parents, always tell our children to believe in themselves, set goals (dreams), make a plan, and follow through.  All skaters should have short term, long term and if applicable, competition goals.  Sometimes, the long term goals seem more like a pipedream but nonetheless, these are our skaters goals.   As with anything in regards to our children, we do whatever it takes to help our children reach their goals (dreams).

One of the things I have learned by being a parent of a skater is that her goals are her goals.  They are certainly not mine, although I do, as a parent have the luxury of guiding her in the best direction.  For instance - "getting a medal" used to be her focus...now - not so much!  It took a while, but after continuous discussions and repetitive brainwashing (haha...just kidding), she now realizes she just needs to give 100% when she competes.  It's made a huge difference in how she views competitions as well as her competitors.  Mostly - it's changed the way she approaches skating - she skates, practices, and competes for herself now without thought about her "competition".

One of the things I used as a brainwashing, oops I mean explanation, was that although she has goals and a plan and she knows very well what those are, she has no clue what her friends or competitors goals and plans are.  It really helped her understand how "individual" this sport really is.  It's about individual accomplishments that make the skater all warm and glittery inside!

In this highly competitive sport of figure skating - the sport is hard enough, mentally and physically, without all the negativity being thrown around.  I honestly think the skaters that make it to the highest level aren't the skaters that showed the most success when they were young or had the best coaches or the most ice time....I believe it's the skaters that persevered when times were tough, held on and never wavered from their goals (dreams), and mostly - had a passion for their sport of choice.  

To the OP - the skater in question could very well be our country's next Olympian....who's to say she won't be!  If she has the passion, support, and inner drive to get to where she needs to be - who knows what will happen.   I certainly cannot predict the future.  I think we, as parents need to support our children's dreams, without crushing the dreams of others.

would that the Rep-button   were working... I hope everyone else would hit it too! - What a great!! Mom your child is blessed with. Good for you, and all other skaters...

[techskater]

As with anything, we, as parents, always tell our children to believe in themselves, set goals (dreams), make a plan, and follow through.  As with anything in regards to our children, we do whatever it takes to help our children reach their goals (dreams).

With that said....I look at football....I have no clue how many little kids are playing/learning the game of football.  Yet - we let these boys have pipedreams about playing in the NFL when they grow up.  We let them decorate their rooms with their idols, we even buy jersey with their idols names on the back.  We certainly don't tell them "you'll never make the pro's"  and we don't look at our friends kids that play football and say "who does he think he is giving his son more time in the front yard catching passes"....or "can you believe he thinks his son will play in the pros".  No - that attitude doesn't really exist....  you may have a parent a little jealous that Johnny gets to start each game and he's not that much better than billy, who is second string,  but yeah - he "might" work harder at practice.    Usually, the kids find their passion and continue working hard or decide football isn't for them, or they get cut from a team, or don't make the college team, etc......   It's okay - they usually know whether they have what it takes or not. 

The difference, though, is little Johnny's family isn't going to split up so he and mom go live in FL to play Pop Warner football because that's where the best athletes are.  Little Johnny is going to play football in whatever town his family lives in.  He may show some affinity for football and his parents may decide to enroll him in the Catholic HS in the area because they have a better football program and he would be in a better position to get a D1 scholarship playing there than at the HS three block from home.  Little Susie in this case, who has struggled with Prejuvenile MIF, has a family that is going to go through some separation pain and strain and a lot of expense so she can go train with a coach who says she's going to the Olympics. 

I am all for parents supporting their kids dreams and I am grateful every day for what my parents did for me while I was growing up to enable me to become involved in skating, dance, softball, etc. but I think parents need to use some common sense and temper their "excitment" in approaching supporting dreams.   Supporting two households is very stressful.  Many families look for the best possible coach in their own area for their skater to progress and don't move to an Olympic-type coach until the child can take care of him/herself on their own.  Mirai Nagasu is lucky because her family already lived near Frank C's training center.  Evan Lysacek didn't go work with Frank until he graduated from HS.  Kimmie Miessner didn't go to FL until she was done with HS.