Advice for an Overcritical Skater?

[mommiegeek]

Hi there!

New here, and not a skater, but a skate mom. I've been lurking around and reading and decided to post for some advice.

My daughter is 12 and has been skating for 2 1/2 years. She's currently Freestyle 1. She loves skating, but she is her own worst enemy. She's super critical of herself, and tears herself down every time she doesn't do well in a competition, or any time a girl in her group (the same girls who've been skating with her this whole time) goes up a level in competition. Right now is really rough because she's skating at the lowest level of the girls in "the group" and her best friend is two levels above her.

I'll be honest, my daughter isn't a natural athlete, but she works hard and she is improving and advancing (obviously), just not as quickly as her friends. I've tried to tell her that she's doing great, and I've even shown her video of her progression over the years, but it doesn't seem to make much of an impact.

Does anyone have any advice for how to get her to focus on her progress and her skills, and to not worry about what everyone else is doing on the ice?

[Neverdull44]

I say this jokingly  . . . sounds like you have a real skater in her heart.  We are all a little obsessive compulsive about skating, and very critical of ourselves.  This is one sport about persistence.   Listening, hard work, and never quitting go a long way in this sport, over talent any day.

You are doing the right thing to build her up.    Only build her up.   Kids need more parents like you that leave the corrections to the coaches.  Kids can't take criticism from their parents.  But, you may want to talk with her coach about her self-perception.    If the coach isn't positive, then switch coaches.

Watch her for any type of destructive behavior as she gets older into teenage years.

[rd350]

Great advice from @neverdull!  I think you sound like an awesome mom.  When I go out to Hackensack which always has very high level sessions going on, I cringe at the things I hear from the moms, whether it's to their kid's face or just watching them and criticizing out loud from behind the glass.

Your daughter is ahead of the game having your support like this - imagine if you were also critical!  I don't have any more advice for you really.  It's hard to learn lessons for others, even - maybe especially when they are so close to you.  I love @neverdull's advice about discussing this with her coach.  Outside of that keep up the awesome support!

Wondering if you know how her friends interact with her on this topic?  You probably know but if you don't, maybe try and see if they are supportive or critical.

I am super critical of myself.  But I can tell you I grew up with a lot of criticism and I think if I had support instead, I may be easier on myself.  I think your supportive attitude towards her, if not in this moment, will teach her over time and be appreciated later on.

[riley876]

As a slower learner of physical stuff than my peers, I know the pain.   But it IS a valuable lesson in modesty (ha, I gots that in spades!).   And one of the chronic problems with western culture is a default expectation that things will come easy.    At least your DD is getting that beaten out of her early - i.e. before it really matters in life.   All very painful, but it'll make her a better person.   I'd consider it a blessing in the long term.

From her point of view I suspect the issue is simply lack of progress.   So maybe work with her to identify in abstract ways how she's thinking about things differently to her peers.   e.g.  An erroneous view of the way muscle memory works,  or a belief that "style" is all cosmetic and not functional.   Or over-attachment to "her way" of doing things.   At some point she has to stop being herself, and start being someone different for anything to change.

Otherwise.   Simply throwing sufficient practise at it will cure any shortcoming eventually!

[sarahspins]

I'll be honest, my daughter isn't a natural athlete, but she works hard and she is improving and advancing (obviously), just not as quickly as her friends. I've tried to tell her that she's doing great, and I've even shown her video of her progression over the years, but it doesn't seem to make much of an impact.

Does anyone have any advice for how to get her to focus on her progress and her skills, and to not worry about what everyone else is doing on the ice?

You've just described my own daughter, except that I am a skater myself (I even teach classes) and my daughter has been skating for 3 1/2 years, and only just passed into FS1.  My daughter is extremely self-critical, which I feel has limited her progress more than anything else, she honestly has the physical ability, but she's easily discouraged because she's so critical of herself, so it's extra difficult to get her to spend the time practicing something she's struggling with. 

My daughter has competed once, in compulsory moves, and while she did well enough, she has zero desire to do it again (which is fine - she met my goal of trying it, and she spent the next two months showing off the medal she won) - but she LOVES participating in shows (as part of a group) and other group performances that our rink does though... I think it's because there's less focus on just her individually, so she can't do that destructive overly critical thing to herself, she has to focus on the group and she knows she has to skate as part of that group.

That said though, I really don't view my own daughter's slow progress as a failure in any way - if anything, she's actually benefitting form her slow progress, by getting MUCH more instruction and practice time and truly mastering skills before being able to move up to the next level - the kids who breeze through often spend time later on re-learning skills they didn't actually master/understand, but could do "well enough" to pass through a level - and that only gets you so far in the long run.  She's seen friends breeze through, and others who have gotten "stuck" at similar levels to her for what seems like a very long time - so she learned the lesson early that everyone progresses at different rates, and it's okay if you need more time at a level, and we haven't had any meltdowns about "not passing" for quite a long time now - and when she hasn't been moved up, she'll tell me what she still needs to work on before I even ask.

I also have to second neverdull's advice - kids almost always don't do well with instruction from parents - this is particularly hard for me, and when I spend time working with my daughter on the ice, my emphasis is only on encouraging her to practice the things she doesn't like to work on, but I don't usually give any feedback at all on how she's doing - because she really doesn't want to hear that from me, and I, as a parent, really only want to see that she is practicing the things she tries to avoid, so I don't need to tell her anything I'm seeing wrong (unless it's just very wrong, or she can't remember how something goes, then I'll remind her, but that's a little different - it's more just redirection than criticism).

BTW, I also wanted to add for those who think that overly critical kids somehow got that way because of their parents - I don't believe this to be true at all.  My daughter has always been highly critical of herself, and I've never done anything to encourage or cause that - it's just how she is.  She begged and begged to take gymnastics when she was about 5 (her brother was doing gymnastics back then, and had been on the boy's team at our gym for a couple of years, so the gym was a fairly comfortable/familiar place for her) so I let her.  She excelled in the tot class she started in, which was all just fun and games, and she LOVED it, but when she turned 6 and had to move into the "big kids" gym, it all fell apart for her, and very quickly.  She was doing okay, but hated the beam and the bars, and while she did try, I could tell it was a real struggle for her - based both on fear and the feeling she had that she wasn't doing as well as her peers (and she wasn't, but SHE was the only one being hard on herself about that, her coaches were awesome with encouraging her, there wasn't any peer pressure or bullying, and nothing bad or scary ever happened to her).  Then when time came for the first "competition" (which was really just an in-house competition to introduce the kids to the competition format and what to expect when they did get to higher levels) she completely broke down and started talking about quitting.  Even the gym owner was baffled by this, because everything they do to introduce this to the kids is VERY positive, there's zero emphasis on "winning" - the only emphasis is on learning the routines, which are very simple in level 1, and general things about how to wait for your turn, not being a distraction to other competitors, etc.  For about a month, every practice ended with her in tears because she was so stressed out about competing, and ultimately I did let her quit, because it was clear she was miserable - and that was all from the pressure she put on HERSELF.  To be honest I am sure she could have just chosen not to compete and that would have been fine (and I would have been just fine with that, too) but it was very much all-or-nothing in her mind, and she knew that she'd lose and she just didn't want to have any part of it.  She even told me she felt like it was too much pressure and THAT is why she wanted to quit.  I'd ask her where she felt that pressure came from because I knew it wasn't from me or her coaches, and I'd just get an "I don't know" from her - it was very frustrating for both of us.

After that experience, when she started asking if she could learn to skate just a few months later I was VERY skeptical... because I really didn't want a repeat of the almost self-destructive pattern I had seen before.  Thankfully, while she has made very slow progress, she genuinely seems to love skating (which is something that has grown with her - she was definitely NOT there yet when she started), so that alone has been enough to keep her going.  When she first started, my main goal was just so that she could skate well enough during public that I didn't have to be right there with her the whole time if I wanted to go skate - she did manage that within a few months, and I told her at that point that she could quit at any time if she wanted to, but she has stuck with it, despite the fact that she has repeated every level (including Basic 1) several times.  I've stayed mostly hands-off with her skating, and I don't coach her (well, I did as she prepared for her one and only competition, but that was not coaching as much as just teaching her the routine she needed to skate - we didn't work on any skills) - my biggest involvement is when she gets new skates, we go through the skills she likes and what she's working on so I make sure she has no obvious blade alignment issues, but that isn't coaching as much as a "let me see you do ____" and asking "do you feel like you're falling on an inside edge, or fighting your skate" over and over.

She got sent home from school with a rash today and her FIRST concern was "can I still skate tomorrow" - so I think she's still excited to go skate, which is good   To be honest I never expected that she'd still be skating now when she first started.

[twinskaters]

I am enjoying reading all the replies and the OP because it makes me feel better about life with my insanely self-critical skaters! One more so than the other, and oddly enough the one that the coach said (to me and only me and never to be repeated) is the stronger skater.

But both my kids have the problem that they have not been skating as long as a lot of their skating friends, and they constantly feel like they don't measure up. Nevermind that their friends started skating at age 4-5 and my girls didn't really start skating until nearly 7, and had several months' hiatus in there.

Of course, your post asked for advice, not commiseration. The advice I have been given by their coach is just cheer them on, compliment them a lot, and be positive. Offer opinions only if asked, and always in a positive manner. I think all of that helps make me feel ok about my role in this, but doesn't necessarily change anything about how she feels inside. Whee.

[fsk8r]

I don't know if it's an option, but would doing something slightly different from the friends be an option?

It was Sarahspins comment about her skater liking performing in groups in shows which brought it to mind. But synchro gives you the best of both. You get the group aspect of skating (and competitions are like shows), but if all the other friends are focussed on singles, she's got something else to speak about. Similarly dance would offer that (depending on availability in the rink).
Just a thought. I'm not saying stop what's she's doing, but possibly add to it.

[Neverdull44]

I am an adult, with 2 professional designations . . . . graduate school degree . . . yada, yada, yada.    I will tell you, there is nothing harder than going out on the ice to perform or test.   The nerves would tear apart even Margaret Thatcher.  If there is self doubt, it will creep in one day.  And, the whole program will fall apart.

Every lesson, the coach is watching the skater for technique.   Corrections all the time, until there is an improvement.  Coach has to be positive, because it's a sport of corrections.  it's not like learning to spell, where you write a word 10 times to learn. This takes 1,000 tries and more.   That's 1,000 corrections and more.

Most parents sit at the sidelines and don't skate.  They have no idea.  But, they can become  ugly, armchair spectators because they are bored and/or projecting their own, unattained dreams onto their "robot" children.   Not to mention that they are spending a small fortune on skating.   Parents mean remarks to the kids, however well meaning, damage the child.  A child needs a parent who is all-loving, especially if they are any bit serious about this sport.  Because the child needs one all-out fan to carry them through the 1,000 correction, a judge panel, and seeing other skaters who they may perceive as  "better" than them.

[mommiegeek]

I'm the OP, and I wanted to say thank you for the advice I've been getting. I've been feeling like I can do more for her, but it's good to know that I'm pretty much doing what I can to be supportive and hope she pulls through it.

After reading some replies, I have to add that the expectations of performance are not mine or her father's. Even her coach only wants her to do her best. She was such a shy, anxious little thing when she first started skating, that we were proud the first time she went out there and participated in a competition.  We didn't care that she came in last place (oh boy, but she did!), we were just proud that was brave enough to do it, and we told her that. We support her and tell her every time that we're proud and just want her to do her best and be happy with what she's doing. Competing is her choice, and we don't push that at all. In fact, after one competition when she had a meltdown in my arms because of her placement, I suggested that she take a break and sit out a few competitions and just work with her coach without worrying about competition. You would have thought that I suggested cutting off her left foot and telling her to never skate again. So, she really wants to compete.

She is overly critical in other parts of her life as well - her schoolwork, her music playing, etc. So that is a facet of her personality.

I don't critique or give advice unless she specifically asks me to watch something or record something and tell her if it's gotten better, or if she's doing what her coach pointed out.

[cbskater]

I'm not sure I can give you advice, but I'll share my personal experience with you.
I have been through this with some slight differences. My daughter was 12 when she started skating, but advanced through the levels fairly quickly. She was also overly self critical & her own worst enemy after skating for a couple of years. She often wouldn't even listen to her coach.
We advanced from once a week learn to skate in the beginning to 3 times a week practice & private lessons. She resented not being able to skate & have lessons 5 days a week even though I explained more than once that our family neither had the time or money for more skating.
I went through so much drama with her and her skating that I often thought that maybe I should take it away from her permanently. It was taken away temporarily a few times for her either not having school work done or not listening to her coach. Skating was what she loved more than anything else, so I couldn't bring myself to make her quit.
By the time she was 16 1/2 she was diagnosed with clinical depression & even worse about her self destructive attitude. She had to take a break for an unrelated surgery. When she returned to skating it seemed half hearted & ultimately quit when she was 17 1/2. While there are some good things about her life she has made some poor & self destructive life choices since then but is now 18 & beyond my control or influence. The whole situation breaks my heart.
In hindsight, what could have done different to change the outcome? I don't know if anything would have. The one thing I know that would have helped was to have more knowledge about this sport, especially the mental aspect of it. I understand so much more since starting skating & competing myself. By reading posts on this forum you probably know much more than I knew back when my daughter was younger. There's a lot of good books out there, too. I recently read Nancy Kerrigans "Artistry On Ice". One thing that she said is that you must have a specific goal for each competition that has nothing to do with your placement. How to get that through your daughters head I don't know. Maybe have her coach talk to her about it?
Sorry if this sounds really negative, this was just my personal experience. I know our daughters are two different people and wouldn't wish my experience on anyone else.

[Doubletoe]

This is based on my own frustration at lack of progress and what I've had to do to cope.  Here's what I'd recommend if she's willing to listen to you:

1.  Sit down with her and have her make a list of skating goals for the year.  They need to be realistic and cannot include anything she has no control over, such as competition placements.  Getting x number of revolutions on a specific spin, landing a certain jump for the first time, passing a certain MIF or FS test, etc, are all good goals.  Another good goal is bettering her technical score in competition, assuming she competes under IJS.  Going for a personal best technical score removes other skaters from the equation.

2.  Have her write up a list of practice goals that are not outcome-based at all.  This will include things like "10 flying camel spins each day, 10 axels each day, 10 run-throughs of my moves-in-the-field each week, 10 program run-throughs per week" etc.  This gives her goals that only require her effort in order to be counted "successful".  She doesn't need to land the 10 axels or do all of her program run-throughs without mistakes.  She just needs to put forth the effort and she has succeeded in achieving this list of goals.