Blades: Dance vs Synchro vs freestyle

[icedancer]

Bill you are such a slacker!!!

No worries.

A friend just ordered the Reidell Dance blade - the Eclipse.  I will be sure to report how she likes them - she skated in MK dance for years - loved them - got ruined by a sharpening and now is in something called an MK Special which has a long tail - had a bad fall due to that longer tail last week and wanted to go back to dance blades - chose the Finesse because of the price and also glowing reviews on the internet - we shall see!

[streetsmart]

Bill you are such a slacker!!!

No worries.

A friend just ordered the Reidell Dance blade - the Eclipse.  I will be sure to report how she likes them - she skated in MK dance for years - loved them - got ruined by a sharpening and now is in something called an MK Special which has a long tail - had a bad fall due to that longer tail last week and wanted to go back to dance blades - chose the Finesse because of the price and also glowing reviews on the internet - we shall see!

Wait, did she get the Riedell Eclipse Dance blades or the Ultima Finesse synchro blades?  You seem to imply both... 

I'm still trying to decide on a blade for my new boots, and I'm trying to take my time and do my due diligence.  After some reading I discovered that my favorite blades ever, John Wilson Hans Gershwilers (which are discontinued), were 7 foot rockers.  I LOVED those blades, and I never could spin or do edge jumps the same when I switched to Pattern 99s.  So, now I'm investigating blades with 7 foot rockers and the Riedell Eclipse Dance blades look interesting.  I'm also looking at the MK Vision Synchro blades (I've decided I want some toe-pick and MK Dance will NOT do in that respect). 

Any info you have on the Eclipse Dance, Finesse, or MK Vision Synchro blades (if anyone has them) is appreciated!  Thanks. 

[icedancer]

Wait, did she get the Riedell Eclipse Dance blades or the Ultima Finesse synchro blades?  You seem to imply both... 

I'm still trying to decide on a blade for my new boots, and I'm trying to take my time and do my due diligence.  After some reading I discovered that my favorite blades ever, John Wilson Hans Gershwilers (which are discontinued), were 7 foot rockers.  I LOVED those blades, and I never could spin or do edge jumps the same when I switched to Pattern 99s.  So, now I'm investigating blades with 7 foot rockers and the Riedell Eclipse Dance blades look interesting.  I'm also looking at the MK Vision Synchro blades (I've decided I want some toe-pick and MK Dance will NOT do in that respect). 

Any info you have on the Eclipse Dance, Finesse, or MK Vision Synchro blades (if anyone has them) is appreciated!  Thanks.

Ooops - yes my friend got the Reidell Eclipse, not the Finesse.  She LOVES them and feels she is "back home" - she loved the MK Dance previously - I think the Eclipse is a MK Dance "knockoff" with that same rocker and pick profile of the MK Dance. 

I have considered the Vision Synchro and the Ultima Synchro - I know that you can do more with the picks on those... I am looking for something that is just a smidge longer and more stable than the SuperDance 99 -

And isn't it a bite when your favorite blades are discontinued?  My favorite ever was called Wilson Dance - it was a Majestic with the backs cut off - had enough picks to do some single jumps and spins and was always comfortable to skate on.  Have not liked a blade much since although I did okay in MK Dance for a while - until that pair was shot and the next pair also was fine for a while until the rocker on them was also shot.

[Loops]

I skate on vision synchro. I'm happy, but not married to them. They were a 200% improvement over my flat as a pancake 25 yo professionals, and at a brilliant price point. I'm on my kindle now, which sucks for typing, so will give more details when I get to a proper keyboard.

[streetsmart]

Ooops - yes my friend got the Reidell Eclipse, not the Finesse.  She LOVES them and feels she is "back home" - she loved the MK Dance previously - I think the Eclipse is a MK Dance "knockoff" with that same rocker and pick profile of the MK Dance. 

I have considered the Vision Synchro and the Ultima Synchro - I know that you can do more with the picks on those... I am looking for something that is just a smidge longer and more stable than the SuperDance 99 -

And isn't it a bite when your favorite blades are discontinued?  My favorite ever was called Wilson Dance - it was a Majestic with the backs cut off - had enough picks to do some single jumps and spins and was always comfortable to skate on.  Have not liked a blade much since although I did okay in MK Dance for a while - until that pair was shot and the next pair also was fine for a while until the rocker on them was also shot.

Can you tell me if the Riedell Eclipse Dance blades have slightly bigger picks than the MK Dance?  Like you said, I think they are supposed to be their version of the MK Dance but in pictures anyway the picks look a bit bigger.  That could just be in pictures though...

[Loops]

So my Vision Synchros.....like I said, I'm pretty happy with them, but I am open to experimenting still, too.  They have good toepick.  They're straight cut teeth though, and it doesn't take much for me make impressive pits (for my dance-only club who've never seen doubles or triples) in the ice.  The drag pick is angled and a bit shorter, which took some getting used too, but now I like it, it really does stay out of the way a little more.  Since I'll only ever jump for synchro, so only singles, that smaller pick doesn't really pose a problem for me.  I actually also feel like I could pull a double out of it, assuming I could still do any of them.  For you as a dancer, I imagine it'd be fine. 

The blades are SHORT.  In comparison to my team-mates and coaches blades, using the amount of tail that sticks out as a guide, they are shorter than MK Dance, Ultima Finesse and I'm pretty sure the CorDance.  I don't step on my tails anymore, which is great, and my footwork is nice and tight. Buuu-uuut- I do fall off the back occasionally, and am constantly mindful of where my balance is.  Ok, that's probably not really a bad thing, but sometimes I'd like to not be worried about it.  If memory serves, I was able to fall of the back on my old blades, too from time to time, so maybe I have special skills.

I got these because I am from a freestyle background but doing only dance and synchro now.  They seemed like a good mix with the shorter blade, and having a decent toepick.  The toepicks, or lack thereof really, on MK Dance blades scare the bejeezus out of me.  The VS also do have a nice curvy spin rocker on them.

They are good blades.  I would certainly consider buying them again.

If you can afford it (the VS are an unbeatable price point), I'd also give a look to the Skate Science Synchro blades.  Those intrigue me, and will very likely be on my list when it comes time to get new blades.  They're a hybrid too, but lean more to the freestyle side of things than dance, which may or may not be of interest to you.  I don't know the rocker on them, because they don't say, but apparently the guy answers his phone more readily than his emails, and is willing to talk about his products.  Might be worth an exploration.  They do a dance blade too, that someone in my rink has and is very happy with. 

Good luck making your choice!

[streetsmart]

Thanks for your input!  It's funny, but I'd be switching from SuperDance 99s, which are noticeably shorter than any other blade as well, so having a really short tail probably wouldn't be all that different.  However, these blades are going to be an inch smaller with my new boots so maybe more tail would be better...

I am only doing dance right now, but did love free skate back in the day, and the lack of toe pick on the dance blades really takes some getting used to.  I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable with it.  Like you said, I am constantly mindful of where my balance is, and each and every time I get on the ice with them it takes me several minutes of skating backwards to find my balance.  I always feel like I'm going to fall on my face.  I don't know why I can't "remember" the feeling but I don't.  The balance point is clearly in a different place than on any blade I've ever skated on.  I just figured there was no reason NOT to get dance blades when I started back, and I definitely feel like my edges are better than in my Pattern 99s.   

From what I've read people mostly seem to like the Vision Synchro blades.  I've found nothing about the Finesse blades or the Eclipse Dance blades yet.  I do think I'm leaning to the 7 foot rocker now though, thinking back to how much I loved my Hans Gershwilers.  I learned all my doubles on those blades, and my edge jumps and spins went to he!! when I switched.      

[icedancer]

Can you tell me if the Riedell Eclipse Dance blades have slightly bigger picks than the MK Dance?  Like you said, I think they are supposed to be their version of the MK Dance but in pictures anyway the picks look a bit bigger.  That could just be in pictures though...

I will let you know.  It strikes me that they might be bigger.  I will look at them on Tuesday when I see her at the rink.

I also HATED the picks on the MK dance - I felt like I could never even do little picky hops on them - for Synchro back when I was wearing them - I always felt like I would slip.  This was one of the reasons I liked the SuperDance 99 - they have better picks and I could do some jumps in them (back when I did jumps - now there is no jumping!)  I could also spin in them but could never ever spin at all in the MK dance. AT ALL but I could spin in the SuperDance 99.

Interesting that you have the experience of not finding your balance point on the SuperDance - that is where I am at with them right now - it never occurred to me to try going backwards in them to find the balance point.  I usually have to do a very long warmup starting with figures - outside and inside eight, then serpentine, then MAYBE back outside 8 - THEN lots and lots of swing rolls - before I feel really comfortable in them.  I am also 60 years old and believe me the skills do go - and you get really scared of skating too fast - these blades have a tremendous run and speed but they are too much for me at times -

So the question of "Is it the blade or is it just me?" comes up a lot in my mind and in my discussions with my skating friends - all of whom are aging of course - 55+ - very good skaters a lot of them still doing very well and again, "Is it the blades or just me?"

streetsmart may I ask what level of dances you are doing?  Nice to meet some other dance enthusiasts around this board!

[streetsmart]

streetsmart may I ask what level of dances you are doing?  Nice to meet some other dance enthusiasts around this board!

Well, I passed Gold dances way back when, and was working on Diamond dances (International dances?).  Passed Ravensburger and Tango Romantica.  I haven't done any ice dance for 20 years so we're starting slow, working on some junior silver and senior silvers (Starlight, Paso, Rocker Foxtrot, Tango, etc).  What I really need to do is work on MITF, because while I feel okay dancing with a partner (sort of) my basic skills are REALLY rusty.  There were no MITF when I quit so I don't even know where to start with them.  I don't think I want to test them, just work through them.  Intermediate looks like a good starting point I think.

I'm totally into ice dance now, and I used to hate watching it.  Virtue and Moir won me over, and I now root for Weaver and Poje.  Also, the french team that just won Cup of China was breathtaking!

[icedancer]

I will let you know.  It strikes me that they might be bigger.  I will look at them on Tuesday when I see her at the rink.

I saw the Eclipse Dance blade up close today - the picks are similar to the MK dance in shape but they are bigger and they are "pickier" they are not completely smoothed off at the sides like the MK Dance.

Hope that helps!

[Loops]

So I thought I'd revive this thread to share some thoughts on my Vision Synchros.

For our end of the season gala, I'm jumping.  Nothing big, just a waltz/loop combo, but the head coach (also a former freestyle skater it turns out) and I have been, ahem, playing around with the jumping thang, which has given me a chance to evaluate my blades for that.

The angled drag pick, for me turns out to be a big deal.  Bear in mind, that my club is really dance only, so jumping is not something I do regularly.  In fact, I have only been jumping for 2 sessions since the coach decided he and I were going to do this.  I am just starting to feel almost comfortable, and still won't even do a waltz jump from any decent speed.  [aside: man is it fun though, and I miss jumping]

That "angled drag pick" is really affecting me.  I'm not a fan, but I also suspect that has as much to do with technique and lack of training as equipment preference.   I have to very consciously point my toe (more than body memory does automatically) or I skid the landing (scary!!!).  I have also missed the drag pick on take offs and had to quickly abort.  Head coach was attempting axels, and I went to try one, but chickened out at the last second, mostly because of overall fear, but that short drag pick does scare me. 

I bet a better skater won't have my issues.

The pick, drag pick aside is similar to a P99 and does leave big holes in the ice, at least as far as dancers are concerned.  The day he and I were really playing around doing everything through lutzes, I got told about the holes.  I thought that coach was joking but she was not  .  In our gala program we're doing 1/2 flips.  I get chastised about the holes every session. I just can't pick any more gently (plus it's backwards for me, so my pick is really weak), so now I'm faking the jump. As long as I'm in a dance only club, I'll be getting cross cut picks in the future, I think.

The shortness of the blade isn't really much of an issue, except when I'm doing power pulls.  I am afraid of falling off the back, but really that's all about me and my improper technique and not something I'm going to blame on equipment.

I'm sure I've mentioned the spin rocker before, but for completeness I'll talk about it again.  Like it.  It was a definite improvement from my 25-year old, flat-as-a-pancake Professionals.  I can spin just fine, no problems there.

[amy1984]

If you're using skates for rec use, I wouldn't worry too much about this/over think it.  A good skate shop will set you up with what you need, most likely a lower level free skate blade with non-scary picks.

[icedancer]

If you're using skates for rec use, I wouldn't worry too much about this/over think it.  A good skate shop will set you up with what you need, most likely a lower level free skate blade with non-scary picks.

Amy - wondering who you are responding to here?

Loops - thank you for your insights on the Vision Synchro - it sounds like you CAN jump in them but because of that angled drag pick, the takeoffs are difficult?  I can totally see that!!

As far as falling off the backs when doing power pulls - I think in a shorter blade we all have to re-think the "skate near the back of the blade when going forward" (I'm guessing you meant forward power pulls) - in a dance blade you have to move that thought to the middle of the blade behind the rocker.  You also really have to be down in your knees with shoulders over the hips (and not leaning back like I like to do because I'm tall and have a pretty pronounced lordosis) for those to work in a Dance/Synchro blade.

That being said I keep thinking of switching to a Synchro blade because I have heard that they are just a tad longer than my dance blades (SuperDance 99).

I also wanted to say that I think the idea of a rink being "all dance and Synchro" is such an awesome thing - BUT how and when do your Synchro skaters obtain and perfect the skills needed for the "Freestyle" aspects of Synchro - jumps, spins and lifts, etc. -

[Loops]

Amy - wondering who you are responding to here?

Loops - thank you for your insights on the Vision Synchro - it sounds like you CAN jump in them but because of that angled drag pick, the takeoffs are difficult?  I can totally see that!!

As far as falling off the backs when doing power pulls - I think in a shorter blade we all have to re-think the "skate near the back of the blade when going forward" (I'm guessing you meant forward power pulls) - in a dance blade you have to move that thought to the middle of the blade behind the rocker.  You also really have to be down in your knees with shoulders over the hips (and not leaning back like I like to do because I'm tall and have a pretty pronounced lordosis) for those to work in a Dance/Synchro blade.

That being said I keep thinking of switching to a Synchro blade because I have heard that they are just a tad longer than my dance blades (SuperDance 99).

I also wanted to say that I think the idea of a rink being "all dance and Synchro" is such an awesome thing - BUT how and when do your Synchro skaters obtain and perfect the skills needed for the "Freestyle" aspects of Synchro - jumps, spins and lifts, etc. -

Forward take-offs.  I have no trouble with my loop or salchow.  My blades are pretty short.  I haven't compared directly, but they seem shorter than the MK dance blades some of the skaters in my rink have.  They are definitely shorter than CorDance.   And you are right on with the f power pulls, when I get down in my knee and bend my ankle, the balance is better, I'm working all that out myself though, I get next to no coaching on moves like that.  The back pulls I have no problem with.

So the all dance is a cool thing.  Our synchro teams are all Division 2, (= non-elite track?  They don't have to do the short program).  So they don't really jump.  But if they do, it's never more than the 1/2 rotation allowed in free dance.  The remaining milestones are all done in a different order.  The silver+ kids (translates roughly to Jr and Sr synchro) can spin decently.  But not as well as freestyle skaters can. The bronze/pre-silver level kids are just learning camels, and most can do an OK sit.  Never seen them do a layback or any catchfoot positions).  I'm a pretty decent spinner and hold my own on that front, but they can all twizzle circles and around me, then switch feet/direction and twizzle some more while I stand there gobsmacked with awe.  Lifts here are only allowed in synchro the Sr level, and they do those.

[icedancer]

Well, I will keep this in mind if I ever get new blades!  Definitely sounds like the Vision Synchro will not be right for me!  What size blades do you wear?  It would be interesting to compare the length of the blades but the only way you can do it is if they are the same size of course.

I have had two pairs of MK Dance and one is 1/4 longer than the other - and my SuperDance 99s are I think at LEAST a 1/4 inch shorter than the shorter MK Dance - so I would love to go with a little longer than those longer MK Dance if possible.

And so itneresting about your dance and synchro club and the twizzles!  That is great.

[amy1984]

Amy - wondering who you are responding to here?

Just a general thought.  I thought the blade was mostly for rec skating?  If so, that's my opinion

[icedancer]

Just a general thought.  I thought the blade was mostly for rec skating?  If so, that's my opinion

Well, this is the blade we were discussing I think:

http://www.iceandrollerskates.com/product/mk-blades-vision-synchro-ice-skates

I guess it depends on what you mean by recreational skater...

[Loops]

Just a general thought.  I thought the blade was mostly for rec skating?  If so, that's my opinion

I think also, Amy1984, that if you go back and read through this entire thread, you'll see that the OP (Lutefisk) asked about synchro blades as a happy medium to dance or freestyle blades.  It's a valid question.  Not a lot of information is put out by the different blade manufacturers.  Most people on this thread either use currently or have in the past used freestyle blades.  A smaller percentage have direct experience with dance blades and even fewer of us have tried the synchro models. So it comes down to us users to share our firsthand experiences.  I've learned a lot on this thread in particular (but from others in this forum as well) about different models of dance blades, and some more about freestyle blades.  It's been useful, and I hope others have found so as well.

I'll certainly remember your advice next time I'm in the market for blades, but I think what IceDancer is getting at is that it's beyond the scope of this thread. 

Well, I will keep this in mind if I ever get new blades!  Definitely sounds like the Vision Synchro will not be right for me!  What size blades do you wear?  It would be interesting to compare the length of the blades but the only way you can do it is if they are the same size of course.

I have had two pairs of MK Dance and one is 1/4 longer than the other - and my SuperDance 99s are I think at LEAST a 1/4 inch shorter than the shorter MK Dance - so I would love to go with a little longer than those longer MK Dance if possible.

And so itneresting about your dance and synchro club and the twizzles!  That is great.

Mine are a size 10.  I do not know offhand how long the runner is.  We're in end of season gala chaos mode, which is made worse by the fact that hockey has a tournament the weekend before our show.  Of course hockey gets all priority so we're scrambling now to make up the lost rehearsal time.  But I'll try to get some measurements of different people's dance blades.  Mine stick out just maybe a 1/4- 1/2 inch from behind my heels.  I feel like, in looking at my coach's MK Dance, hers stick out further, but that could also have a lot to do with boot model, so I'll see what I can learn.

If you're not doing any jumping, I wouldn't rule these out.  The shortened drag is cleaner- I scratch less for sure; they keep me honest.  Until the jumping started three weeks ago, I was very OK with them.  Although admittedly, I had been thinking recently that I'll go with a freestyle model for the next time (subject to change without notification).  But I do like the short tail- I was the queen of stepping on it, and that problem has gone away.  I wouldn't complain if it were a smidge longer though, that's also true.

[icedancer]

Mine are a size 10.  I do not know offhand how long the runner is.  We're in end of season gala chaos mode, which is made worse by the fact that hockey has a tournament the weekend before our show.  Of course hockey gets all priority so we're scrambling now to make up the lost rehearsal time.  But I'll try to get some measurements of different people's dance blades.  Mine stick out just maybe a 1/4- 1/2 inch from behind my heels.  I feel like, in looking at my coach's MK Dance, hers stick out further, but that could also have a lot to do with boot model, so I'll see what I can learn.

If you're not doing any jumping, I wouldn't rule these out.  The shortened drag is cleaner- I scratch less for sure; they keep me honest.  Until the jumping started three weeks ago, I was very OK with them.  Although admittedly, I had been thinking recently that I'll go with a freestyle model for the next time (subject to change without notification).  But I do like the short tail- I was the queen of stepping on it, and that problem has gone away.  I wouldn't complain if it were a smidge longer though, that's also true.

Oh shoot!  I wear a 10 1/4 - I was hoping (beyond hope) you could measure yours and compare... as far as where they stick out beyond the heel - it really depends on how the heel of your boot is cut, if that makes any sense.

Also wondering about the drag pick angle - scratching is less - going backwards?  I have to say that has never been a problem for me - but of course I've been wearing dance blades for over twenty years so maybe I don't remember what I used to do in my old "freestyle blade" days - but on the SuperDance the drag pick is also small - maybe angled but I definitely can't "find" it when I need it although ... I used to be able to do waltz jumps in them but find now that the whole idea of jumping just freaks me out - probably has more to do with losing skills as I age as anything else.

I originally got Dance blades when I fell with my coach doing the 14-step - on the mohawk - I stepped on my blades and we went down - on the way down - he is basically on top of me saying, "Get Dance blades" and so I did LOL  I have never looked back although those first dance blades (Wilson Dance) were definitely my favorite and I have been lamenting ever since they "died" in the late '90s - wishing they still made them - they were just a tad longer and I felt a lot more comfortable on them - but I can also say the same about my old SP Teri's compared to my "new" (10-year-old) ones.

[Query]

We're in end of season gala chaos mode, which is made worse by the fact that hockey has a tournament the weekend before our show.  Of course hockey gets all priority

Oh. I thought hockey was mostly a U.S./Canada thing - that the French would have more common sense than us.

C'est la vie.