ISI: Dead or Alive?

[AgnesNitt]

When I started skating in 2007, ISI was huge in my region. Every rink ran ISI LTS. Now ISI is pretty close to dead here. I can't find a single rink within driving distance that has ISI LTS. My rink runs USFSA LTS, but (strangely) it's an ISI rink, so we have ISI coaches and ISI competitions.

I don't know how ISI will survive. Though someone told me ISI is big in the midwest.

Opinions?

[skategeek]

No idea, really... we've got a mix here.  One rink switched last year from ISI to USFSA LTS and I heard from the then-director that it was because it was administratively easier and/or cheaper to run USFSA somehow (I don't remember the details, though).  Of the other rinks nearby, I think one is USFSA and two are ISI for LTS, at least.  I haven't gotten involved with any of the local clubs yet, but their web sites all seem to just talk about USFSA.

[Query]

ISI WeSkate classes have definitely lost ground around here to USFSA LTS classes, but a lot of rinks around here still do ISI lessons and/or have an ISI club. My favorite rink (Bowie, MD) has clubs for both, but teaches ISI lessons, and helps organize ISI competitions.

Perhaps the existence of two clubs, and the PSA besides, in one country, is an anomaly. Coaches sometimes complain that paying professional membership fees to all three is an annoying necessity.

[Clarice]

My rink is an ISI rink so that the manager can go to ISI programs for rink managers.  But we run a USFS Basic Skills program, and we are all USFS coaches.  I absolutely do not want to have to keep up with yet another professional membership.  I am in the midwest, and know that there are still quite a few ISI programs in the Chicago area, but more and more of them are switching to USFS.   ISI is an international organization, though, so I'm sure it still has a future.

[littlerain]

I'm at a rink in the Chicago suburbs and they do isi for basic skills and usfs free skate levels. I think. A lot of the rinks in the suburbs seem to do isi LTS! Though the majority do have usfs clubs with other nearby rinks

[nicklaszlo]

My rink is ISI.  They have a lot of inertia, so I do not see that changing soon.  It does not make much difference - we even have moves in the field sessions sometimes.

[lutefisk]

From my perspective this is kinda like Mac vs PC.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that onceuponnatime, ISI had an advantage in the learn to skate dept.--particularly one for adults.  Since then, USFSA has climbed down from its Olympic tower and copied most of ISI's program.  In my view, one can barely tell the difference.  Same ice, same skills to be learned, and sometimes the same instructors teach under the two regimes at different rinks.  There is a slightly different introduction order for the basic skills.  The two systems should just merge and be done with it.  Then testing/competing skaters would have just one dues payment per year instead of two and once set of test requirements.  Of course if that happened folks would be deprived of something to argue over, ala Yankees vs Red Socks. Yawn.

[davincisop]

Every rink I've skated at except my current rink has been a USFSA rink. My current one is an ISI rink, though I've never taken ISI. The academy follows the ISI levels, and I plan to join ISI soon so I can do the ISI comps that my rink holds.

But I am testing USFSA since that's what I've been doing for years.

[Query]

Since then, USFSA has climbed down from its Olympic tower and copied most of ISI's program.

USFSA LTS has been around for many decades.

ISI still has some advantages from the skater's perspective - it has clear, more or less easy to read instructional materials, and a DVD everyone in ISI can buy. And they cost less to join, less to take lessons through, less for clubs to associate with them. And they have a number of "fun" categories.

But what is an advantage to skaters is not always an advantage to coaches.

But I'm not sure of all the reasons USFSA has been taking over group lessons so many places. Perhaps advertising? - when you watch a USFSA or ISU event, they advertise USFSA, but not ISI.

If so, ISI is quietly letting itself die.

Or perhaps it has to do with the coaches. Most of them were very good competitive skaters who competed within USFSA - as you must within the USA at the highest levels.

If a coach has hopes of creating elite level competitive skaters, they have to pay for a coach-type membership in USFSA, and be trained and certified for that by USFSA - and they would have to do similar things for the ISI if they wanted to teach ISI lessons too. So it makes sense for the coaches and figure skating directors to do what is most convenient for them, which is to just go with one organization.

[PinkLaces]

Midwesterner here. Many rinks where I live teach ISI for LTS and group freestyle lessons, but many also have USFS clubs. Once kids get to ISI FS5 (axel) they start becoming members of USFS clubs. If they are competitive (well balanced regionals), they pretty much focus on USFS competitions.

One thing I noticed in recent years is that the introduction of the Basic skills competitions and series has started the kids joining the USFS clubs earlier than in the past. I think that the test track levels have kept more of the older kids that were less competitive in well-balanced involved in USFS competitions and in testing. In the past, those kids would've done ISI exclusively.

[AgnesNitt]

Midwesterner here. Many rinks where I live teach ISI for LTS and group freestyle lessons, but many also have USFS clubs. Once kids get to ISI FS5 (axel) they start becoming members of USFS clubs. If they are competitive (well balanced regionals), they pretty much focus on USFS competitions.

I've been told that in the days before USFSA had a basic skills program that everyone learned in ISI, and didn't join USFSA until they got an axel. Then USFSA figured out how to make money out of ISI, and started their own program.

[Query]

Didn't the USFSA have a Basic Skills program ever since Robert Ogilvie wrote "Basic Ice Skating Skills" (an official USFSA manual) for them in 1968?

They certainly had a competitive Basic Skills program since 2002 - look this (That is a later manual, but the initial copyright is 2002.)

Maybe USFSA has just become more aggressive about pushing the program. Just like they discovered they could make more money selling televised performances to cable channels and IceNetwork, than by selling them to the free broadcast networks, even if that made some of us unhappy.

ISI always relied on the rinks to push their program - while USFSA (which now sometimes calls itself USFS) advertises aggressively. Clearly that isn't working out for ISI.

What would the ISI would have to do to hold onto some remnant of their position?

E.g., what if they accepted coach USFS/PSA accreditation to teach ISI classes, without charging for coach memberships and recast those classes (and their manual and DVD, which they could augment with an IOS/Android app series) to teach the USFS skill sequence - but charged less than USFS per student? And ran their competition program around the same skills sequence? That way they could build on the much higher quality of their skater-directed educational materials.

ISI should also take their Synchro and Ice Dance programs to a higher level. Right now they stop almost as soon as they begin.

[FigureSpins]

Mr Ogilvie's book was used by his own club for LTS and a handful of others, but it was more likely that individual rinks and clubs used homegrown curricula designated by their "head pro."  It was not an pre-packaged LTS program.  There were some clubs that used the USFSA Badge Program.  The Basic Skills program curricula were initially developed by a group of professional instructors as a way for the USfSA to compete with the ISI.  Many of them ran ISI LTS programs and they changed over, as have more and more rinks to date.

The ISI was ready-to-go package for rinks to implement, as-is.  Not every rink has a figure skating club and not all clubs offer LTS classes. The ISI program was appealing as a result and it made money by keeping skaters challenged and  coming back.  (that explains the disconcerting jumps on opposite directions on the higher-level freestyle levels.)

The ISI has been getting heir lunch taken in bits and pieces as more and more USFSA coaches become skating directors.  Why would they want to implement ISI when the usfsa program costs the same or even less?  It's sad because the ISI did a great job of getting skating to the masses, esp. Adult skaters.

[sarahspins]

Why would they want to implement ISI when the usfsa program costs the same or even less?

I agree, and there's also more marketing appeal to both skaters and parents because the program basically leads into USFS standard track.  While ISI may be marketed as being "fun" and "recreational" it's really hard to convince a lot of parents and skaters to participate if they have national or olympic dreams (however unrealistic).  I can also say coming from experience, that moving from ISI into USFS is somewhat difficult - it almost feels like starting over.  Even though the skills are relatively easy in the lower levels, learning the patterns and format of the testing structure can be a big adjustment.  The competitions used to be MUCH more different than they are now as well.  Now most USFS competitions have a basic skills competition attached to them, but 20 years ago, most didn't, and if you didn't have an axel, you just didn't compete in USFS.

I believe that while the USFS Basic Skills program has been around for quite a while, it began to gain popularity in the mid-90's.  I personally think that the BS is a little more comprehensive than ISI - there are fewer gaps in the curriculum since almost every skill in the lower levels is a building block for something that comes later, not just an arbitrary skill learned.  There are even skills in the FS levels that introduce many of the MITF patterns, which can be very helpful for a lot of skaters as they "graduate" from the Basic Skills program.  With the new open ISI levels (and test requirements), it's also easier for USFS skaters to compete in ISI competitions if they want to than it used to be, but it is still not as easy to transition from ISI to USFS (either BS or standard track).