Uniforms and Dress Codes

[FigureSpins]

Here's a subject that could create some debate online...Think about Scott Hamilton's speed skating suit - it was well-fitted, showed his body line and was simple yet patriotic.  Why does the Skating Industry expect so much money to be invested in fashion today?  While there is some impact on the skating itself, it's not as important as consistency and theme.  Do we really need to have competitors spend thousands of dollars on one outfit? 

I'd rather see the Team Trophy at the Olympics be a technical skating event based on elements rather than another freeskate/dance performance, but I think a dress code or uniform could help focus on the skating skills rather than the artistic side by removing the costuming.

Yay or nay?

[PinkLaces]

 So like a jump and spin event?

[Skittl1321]

I'd be fine if skaters wore a team uniform (and they'd still spend tons, but I guess it would be the federation spending it, not the athletes?); but I do not want to see a technical event. Skating is a lot more than just elements.

[FigureSpins]

I'd be fine if skaters wore a team uniform (and they'd still spend tons, but I guess it would be the federation spending it, not the athletes?); but I do not want to see a technical event. Skating is a lot more than just elements.

If people only wanted to see the artistry, they'd watch dance.  Viewers watch to see the elements performed with skill, strength and ease.  There's no reason that can't be done with a technical skating event.

Focusing on the elements over the artistry would also improve consistency and correctness because a cheat or fall could have a more-relevant affect on the scoring.  "Make it look easy" is the mantra, but that's one of the reasons critics consider figure skating to be art, not sport.  We hide our light under a bushel.  I'd like to see the athleticism in the sport, which I think is downplayed entirely too much.  It's a difficult sport at it's elemental level and a technical competition event (for Singles, at least) would highlight the strength and control needed.  I would absolutely watch, just to see the balance of power shift among the competitors by taking away the PCS.

[Skittl1321]

I'm not just talking artistry though.

Have you seen Max Aaron's exhibition number? He reels off quads like it is nothing- I think he may have done 4 of them in the program at one competition.  But when he tries to put them together with connecting footwork/transitions, with P/E requirements like carriage, or with Interpretation and Composition of the program (all of which he is getting better at) he loses the quads.  That's because program components are a huge portion of what skating is.  Doing BOTH things is difficult.

And PCS is NOT "the artistic mark".  It's a different thing than what the artistic mark was under 6.0

If people only wanted to see the artistry, they'd watch dance.  Viewers watch to see the elements performed with skill, strength and ease.  There's no reason that can't be done with a technical skating event.

Do you know all the viewers?  How do you know what they watch for?  This might be what YOU watch for, but don't generalize that everyone does.  I'm not one who wants a beautiful performance like a ballet at expense of athleticism, but many many viewers are, and they hate the current system because skating has changed so that it is no longer just about the beautiful performance, and the feeling of "that was a winning skate".  But I don't just want to see elements.

I've watched a ton of compulsory events at competitions and they are boring. Even with higher level elements, I would not want to see it.  Program components are hugely important, IMO.

Maybe there should be elite element competitions, but I don't see why it should be the Olympic team event.


But if this thread is supposed to be about costumes- I really don't care what they wear.

[FigureSpins]

You're the one who went off topic about tech skating events, I just suggested it as an event where a uniform would be appropriate. 

[Skittl1321]

You're the one who went off topic about tech skating events, I just suggested it as an event where a uniform would be appropriate.

From the first post "I'd rather see the Team Trophy at the Olympics be a technical skating event based on elements"

[FigureSpins]

In full context, I said:

I'd rather see the Team Trophy at the Olympics be a technical skating event based on elements rather than another freeskate/dance performance, but I think a dress code or uniform could help focus on the skating skills rather than the artistic side by removing the costuming.

[retired]

OUA  - university skating teams in Canada compete everything with a team uniform.  There are many type of events from solo dance to synchro.  There are singles events, the skaters tend to do their (former) competitive programs but wear the team outfit for every event, always.    I'd love to see them do this for the team event at the Olympics.

[Skittl1321]

In full context, I said:

But "skating skills" are not just the elements.  They are also the program components.  Throwing out the program components throws away a lot more than just the "artistic side". 

I'm all for a uniform. Heck, I'd be happy if they wore uniforms for their individual events like pretty much every other sport does; including sports that have a 'showmanship' aspect: snowboarding/gymnastics.  What an athlete wears is irrelevant to me. 

But because of the costumed history of figure skating, I think teams would just try to one up each other and it would be the same result of thousands of dollar costumes. 

[Neverdull44]

It is a shame that the competitors have to buy such elaborate costumes in order to feel competitive.  But, honestly, I don't think it matters much in the mind of the judges.  A strong skater in a $500 dress is going to beat a weaker skater in a $2,000 dress.   Overall, the prices are coming down with China and Russia dressmaker coming on the market. 

How about the National Broadcasting Network paying amateurs a set amount towards their costumes in televised events?  After all, it's the network that is the true winner in all of this.

[FigureSpins]

OUA  - university skating teams in Canada compete everything with a team uniform.  There are many type of events from solo dance to synchro.  There are singles events, the skaters tend to do their (former) competitive programs but wear the team outfit for every event, always.    I'd love to see them do this for the team event at the Olympics.

That's a great idea - keeps the costs low and stops the wasteful fashion competitions.

It is a shame that the competitors have to buy such elaborate costumes in order to feel competitive.  But, honestly, I don't think it matters much in the mind of the judges.  A strong skater in a $500 dress is going to beat a weaker skater in a $2,000 dress.   Overall, the prices are coming down with China and Russia dressmaker coming on the market. 

Commentary (on TV and online) indicates that judges do have a say in the costuming.  It's tied to the overall impression/theme of the program so it does affect scoring, but you're right: it's not going to overcome a good performance.  I think of Johnny Weir whenever I think of costuming now.  (Katerina Witt was bumped from that pedestal by Johnny)  Some of his costumes were works of art, but it seemed like the most-detailed/elaborate/controversial ones weren't accompanied by his best skating.  Weir was an AWESOME skater and I always thought that he could rock the house in anything.  It seemed like his costuming became a distraction; the fox fur controversy left me wondering what would have happened if he had been able to focus on his incredible skating instead of being assailed for his fashion choice.  I felt it was almost self-destructive, in an unintended way.  At that point, the costume became his reason to skate, rather than the skating itself.

How about the network paying amateurs a set amount towards their costumes?  After all, it's the network that is the true winner in all of this.

I doubt that would come about in the US, lol.  Costumes are paid for before anything's televised and you never know who's going to make the broadcast.  Do you mean an after-the-fact costume allowance, if a skater makes it onto the small screen?

[sarahspins]

I'm all for a uniform. Heck, I'd be happy if they wore uniforms for their individual events like pretty much every other sport does; including sports that have a 'showmanship' aspect: snowboarding/gymnastics.  What an athlete wears is irrelevant to me. 

I would agree, until the leo's the US wore for the 2012 games..... I don't think I've ever seen more bling in gymnastics in my life!

That said, to a point I don't think it matters what is spent on a dress - what counts is the skating, what is worn is merely a small piece of the bigger picture.

Of course, the little girls competing in FS1 wearing an $800 dress will always look out of place   Even at those low levels though, if you have a dress custom made (maybe you have a specific idea you can't find off the rack, or you don't fit standard sizes well), before you are even talking about stoning and other decoration, you'll be spending $250-300 (if you manage to find an off the rack dress, you're still spending about half that much).  It adds up fast.

[Skittl1321]

I would agree, until the leo's the US wore for the 2012 games..... I don't think I've ever seen more bling in gymnastics in my life!

That's why I think federations would just go all out one-upping each other.  It used to be in gymnastics they just competed to see who could get more barrettes on the top of their head but now they are crazy blinged out.  But at least within the country they'd be in the same outfit. 

Of course, at nationals the gymnasts compete in their gym's uniforms- so they have to buy another set of blinged out leotards.

[Doubletoe]

Figure skating is really half sport half dance/performance, and that's why the scoring is set up the way it is.  Some people think the sport aspect should be emphasized more and others think the dance/performance aspect should be emphasized more, and those two sides have never been able to agree.  Since there is no part of the score that specifically awards points for the costume, why not just let the skaters wear what they want?  It won't make their athleticism any less impressive and the dance/performance lovers will enjoy the costumes.

As an audience member, I certainly enjoy the skaters' dresses/costumes, especially when they really match the theme of the music.  And as a skater, I *definitely* enjoy them!  Yes, it's expensive getting one of those dresses made, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to ice time, choreography and coaching fees.  A gorgeous new dress is almost like a reward for the work I do putting together a new program and it also helps me feel the part when I'm interpreting a piece of music.

[sampaguita]

Costumes make a HUGE difference in performance. Even the stage lighting makes a huge difference. I've watched elite skaters in both practice sessions and actual competitions, and there IS a difference in how I perceive their performance. The jumps may be the same, the spins may be the same, the moves may be the same, but with a costume, it looks more like a performance than just a practice session. The costume sets the tone, it sets the mood -- and in some cases, it can make or break the performance.

To illustrate better how important costume is, let's just imagine that Yuzuru Hanyu used his 2013 FS leotard costume for Parisienne Walkways. That would just be disastrous.

[blue111moon]

The majority of judges - and I've talked to and listened to hundreds of them over the last three decades - for the most part don't notice much about costumes beyond the color and appropriateness.  They might notice something about the fit - too tight, too loose, too short or long - or wonder what such-and-such of a detail had to do with the music or theme of the program.  IJS has a costume deduction for something that violates the rule but that's very rarely taken and almost always for either exessive nudity or the illusion of nudity or for a safety issue.  In ice dance there's more emphasis on costumes reflecting the character of the dance.  In fact, in the judges' education seminars I've attended, the judges have been strictly instructed to judge the skating, not the costumes.  Color notes are usually to help the judges remember one skater from another - and unles the costume is distracting (and a lot of judges have commented that they find Weir's costumes take their attention away from his performance - remember the swan glove?) , they are too focused on all the other aspects of the program to remember much more than the color.

Basically the emphasis on costume comes from the coaches and the skaters, not the judges or officials.   Skaters want to feel confident and for some, dressing well (or spending a lot of money) gives them confidence.  Personally, I have my costumes custom made but that's because my body type doesn't allow me to buy anything off the rack; even when I was skinny, nothing fit.  Skating outfits, like everything else in the sport, have become big business and I doubt if that's going to end anytime soon.

However, Theatre on Ice does have a technical portion of their competition which requires teams to wear simple plain unforms.  All the ones I've seen have been black pants and black turtlenecks with no decorations of any kind.  It's an interesting concept and really allows the judges to focus on the concepts that the teams have to convey without the distraction of flash and color.  I heard someone describe it as the difference between modern dance and Broadway and that seemed apt to me.

I would like to see a trend toward less flash and glamour at least during the short programs and maybe the team competition at the Olympics will lean that way eventually.  But until we see exactly what format the team competition actually takes, it's probably a moot point. 

[Qarol]

I'm a nay. Part of the performance for me is the costume.