Back on ice after 25 yrs- can someone educate me re: boot design?

[Loops]

Hello everyone!  I'm returning to skating after a 25 year hiatus- so excited!  Lots has changed in the past couple decades, not least in terms of equipment.  I need new skates!  This season I'm sticking with my 25ish yo freestyle skates that surprisingly still seem to know many of the steps  while I research what will be the best boot/blade combo for my needs.

I am trying to figure out different types of boots.  When the time comes, my coaches will have influential input, but I'm trying to educate myself before getting them involved.  The club I am in now is exclusively dance/synchro.  No jumping, but I'm in France where solo dance is very well developed, and the skaters seem to really do everything but jump.  They seem to be split 50/50 vs dance and freestyle boots.  Oh, and there's no pro-shop here- so no local knowledge outside of the rink.

I think I understand some of the differences in terms of dance vs freestyle boots.  But I can't figure out how much I sacrifice if I were to go with a dance boot- is it just lateral ankle support?  Are they less rigid, or is it just because they're lower and cut out on the back?   Anything else?  How much less ankle support is there?  I do as much synchro as dance- so I'm also curious about the difference between dance and synchro boots?  Another thread on this forum hints that the synchro boot may be the happy medium between dance and free....did I interpret that right?

My family moves every 5-ish years- if I were to go with a dance or even a synchro boot, and hypothetically in 2 years land in a club with heavier emphasis on free, and potentially no dance (in France this is very possible) would I be in a position of needing new skates?  I'll be honest- I'm 40 years old.  I'd be lucky if I landed an axel, let alone any of my doubles.  But I am a competitor.   How bad of an idea is it to do free in dance or even synchro boots? 

Thanks in advance for the info!  It's exciting to see how much things have changed over the years!

[sarahspins]

I think it's probably more accurate to say that freestyle boots are available in stiffer models than dance/synchro boots, but really it comes down to the specific boot.  Not all dance boots are lower cut either (specifically thinking of SP Teri)  I know a lot of people (all older skaters) who have tried dance boots and hated them because they are so low cut, and others who noticed no difference at all.

After 25 years though, ANY new boot is going to seem very foreign compared to your old boots - if you are comfortable in your old skates, it may make sense to consider something similar despite the kind of skating you think you'll be doing.  In 5 years you would probably be in need of a new pair anyways, and you could re-evaluate your needs then.

[Elsa]

I'm not much help with dance vs freestyle boots, but I agree with Sarah on sticking with what you know.  I came back a few years ago after a long absence and switched from Riedell to Jackson. I thought I was happy with them, but just ended up back at Riedell with my 20+ year old boots in tow, practically begging for a new pair in my current size.  Even two sizes too narrow, the old boots just felt "right" in a way the Jacksons never did (though the Jacksons are great boots).

Welcome back! 

[Loops]

Hey thanks!  What you both say is true- my current club has an army of skates  skaters can borrow (its impressive....when my parents visited I could see them calculating how much they could have saved.....).  I was set to borrow a pair of intro-level Jacksons.  They felt better than my Reidells and could even accommodate my orthotics- but just didn't skate as well.  Dunno if it was boot, blade or combo (+ of course the 25 years) and I was too impatient to deal with it.

The catch is, when I last bought skates, I had a choice between Reidells and Custom Harlicks.  That was it.  SP-Teri had just broken into the ice world, and was relatively unknown, although my pro-shop carried them.  He advised me against them.  So I landed with Reidell Comps that we surgically altered.  This pair of skates has never fit me well around the ankles, and has caused problems internally in my legs and eaten me around the ankles.  So while I'm used to them, and they're broken down and know the steps, they need to be retired.  TBH, given the fit, I'm not sure I'd stick with Reidells, even if I could buy them here, which I don't seem to be able too.  I'll have access to some models of Jackson's and WIFA for sure, something called Edea (which I find visually unattractive, and I don't know about that sole, so they'd have to be like second skin for me to consider them) and I think that's it.  So I'm not sure I can stick with something I know boot-wise.   I'm just wondering if Dance/synchro boots are even worth considering; I like the idea of being having a nicer extension/toe point.  Odds are I'll stick with the blades I know (I'm on flatter-than a pancake Wilson Prof's right now.....no sharpening space left!) unless my coaches really push for something else.  Once the synchro season is over, I'll have time to get adjusted.

Even in my flesh-eating skates, it does feel good to be back on the ice.  Why it took me so long, I'll never know. 

If anyone else has info on the boots- I'd love to hear it!

[aussieskater]

Welcome back to the ice!!

It's unfortunate you don't have a local pro shop to go to for fitting, but the "borrowing library" might get you out of a hole here, as you can try different brands - and possibly eliminate some quite quickly - before you go on the great boot hunt.

Something which likely wasn't available when you bought your last boots, and which you might find very useful depending on your feet, is the split width variation on stock boots.  Back in the day, you'd probably have had to spring for full customs to get that; now several manufacturers offer it as an option on stock boots, for not too much more money.  A wonderful thing for those of us with duck feet!

Another thread on this forum hints that the synchro boot may be the happy medium between dance and free....did I interpret that right?

I think the comments you read re being a happy medium referred more to synchro blades rather than boots.  Probably relevant for you anyway, since I guess your blades might be in the same shape as your boots??

Synchro blades weren't around 25 years ago; they have a short tail like dance blades, but with a decent pick up front.

[Isk8NYC]

Welcome to skatingforums! 

I've also heard that the Jackson synchro is the medium between a dance and freeskate boot, but I've never had dance or synchro boots.

I will tell you that I once bought "instructors boots" and used them for freestyle, thereby shortening their life to 9 months before they had to be rebuilt.  Just not enough support for me because I was heavier than when I skated freestyle 15+ years earlier.

[Elsa]

How nice to have boots to try!   Have you tried synchro/dance boots with the cut outs to see how they feel?  We have a local skater with a freestyle boot from Riedell that she had the back cut down on to get a better toe point, and she's quite happy with them - for jumping and dance.  I wasn't that brave - yet.  If I pick up more dance hours, I may consider it with the next pair.

My old Riedells were also Comps, and I think part of the problem with the Jacksons (Premiere) is that they have a slightly higher heel - I felt like I was pitching forward too much, and never adjusted to it.  They're also too big now ( ), my heel comes up, and I'm sliding forward in the boots.  They just aren't working for me at all.  That said, they could accommodate my width in a stock boot, and Riedell couldn't.

They have changed a lot since we were kids (we're about the same age), and there are so many more choices - not just the manufacturers, but within their lines as well.  I went with something slightly softer than the comps, but in that same traditional boot style because it felt familiar. They taper the interior padding and roll the leather edges on the tops now, so I'm hoping they won't chew up my legs like they used to. I would imagine other companies have made similar revisions.  Best of luck figuring it out - I'm envious you get to try a bunch out on the ice before making a decision.

[Loops]

Thanks again!  Yes, I've been mining this forum and read about the split width- that does honestly seem like a good option...I wonder how I say that in French......  That would definitely have been customs in my day.  And it's true the landscape of boots has diversified enormously- I've been eyeing those rolled edges, especially over the achilles- I have lines (that sometimes bleed  ) around my legs marking the top of my skates.  Hoping that stops, but it's been 1.5 months already.... My comps are the first generation- so before they put all the padding inside, so I'm excited to see what that feels like, although if it squishes down and doesn't hold up that's kinda disappointing.

I also thought the "lending library" would solve my lack of local skate shop problem, but they're all entry level Freestyle boots.  The idea is to give new skaters decent equipment to get them on the ice and skating.  I think they buy them in bulk, so there's a variety of sizes although not widths, but that's about it.  I can try the difference between a beginners Wifa and Jackson and I guess get the footprint, but I don't know how that changes as one moves up the ladder.  And I'll crush beginner boots, so won't be going there.  They don't have dance boots, let alone synchro!. But overall I think it's a brilliant idea and wish more clubs would do it.  I can not "interview" blades, but to me that's less intimidating than the boot.  (And yes, my blades are in the same shape, potentially worse, since they're even older! than my boots.   Yikes.)   My coach says I can get one more season out of these skates, but I wouldn't mind it if I didn't......

There is a ballet store here, that I think has dealt with roller for a while and has started catering to the Ice community.  They're the ones that stock those brands I listed in a pp.  I do NOT know which models they stock and how much they know about skates.  Tbh I wasn't that impressed when I went in there to talk to them, and  I've no clue if they're equipped to do things like stretch them out or cut down the back (good idea!).  But who knows- they'll certainly be my first stop and maybe they'll surprise me.  I do want to support them though- we all have to start somewhere and this town needs a skate shop.  But  my feet are more important, and if they can't help me, I'll be visiting the pro-shop in my husbands much larger home city when we go there for the holidays.....this is why I'm starting researching now!  I was so spoiled back in DC....

So no-one here really has synchro skates?  That might say something right there......or are they a fairly new thing?

[aussieskater]

So no-one here really has synchro skates?  That might say something right there......or are they a fairly new thing?

I do (the boots anyway)!  And I love 'em.  Jackson synchro, split width (very split  ).  I'm pretty sure that quite a few others of us on here have tried the same model.  Some have liked them, some not so much.  They're a reasonable stiffness - they're supposed to be rated for beginner doubles, like I'm ever going to have those.  I don't have synchro blades, just standard MK Pro's.

As far as the lending library is concerned, I do think that might be of real benefit for you.  While you can't use the boots for very much, you can at least try on the various manufacturers' different lasts, and maybe work out which one/s might be a good starting point for you.  I was told by my fitter that as a general rule, a manufacturer will use the same or similar last through all freestyle models (not so much for the beginner/pond skates).  Your last post spoke of split widths as being a good thing; if you have non-skinny feet, you might want to try the men's boots too.

[Loops]

Ah good, Aussieskater!  You're talking about the 3400/3410?  Those and the Finesse (2510) are ones I'm really curious about.  You say you aren't doing doubles, but are you happy with the support?  How heavy are you on your feet?  I ask that because back in the day, I always broke down  skates quickly and hence got a little overbooted to compensate... dunno if that's relevant to my current situation though. Have you always been in Jackson's?  If not, what's your take on the heel height that Elsa mentions in a pp? 

And you are right about the library- I really hadn't planned to use my skates, so did try on a number of their skates- some of which were men's WIFA's.  The women's didn't work, but the men's felt good until I walked around in them- they hit me all wrong over my arch- never even bothered going on the ice.  The Jackson's felt pretty good, especially since I could get my orthotics in (!!) and perhaps if my ego/patience level had been higher I would have been happy with them.  That's what's got me looking at Jacksons, and eventually onto this dance/synchro concept.   I hope you're right about the last being consistent through the boots- that will certainly make life a lot easier.  I've not written off WIFA's though.

I'm not sure where I'd be with a spit width, but I suspect that my heels are still narrow, whereas the front of my foot has splayed out over the years.  We'll see when I get properly measured and fitted where I'm at, but I am in LOVE with the concept!  The idea of a boot that fits reasonably well without surgery or a custom price tag is a good thing.  Is that something basic that the shop can order easily? 

Thanks folks, for the input!  I'm learning lots.

[aussieskater]

Loops, here's an old thread where some of us were talking about the various Jackson models.  Not sure how much of it is still current, but it might give you a start?  http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=766.0

I still have the boots I was referring to in that thread, and have been happy with them.  I have to say that the current synchro model looks nicer than mine ... for a start, it now has tongue hooks.  I had to kludge a laceholder on my tongues to stop the tongue twisting, and would love proper tongue hooks!  Also, the backstay of mine has a piece of elastic sewn in to facilitate toe point, and it tends to rub the ankle where it's joined to the leather.  A silipos sleeve fixes the bloodshed but I'd prefer it didn't rub!  The new model has the roll top all the way round, so presumably no rough spot.

I'm really happy with the support offered by mine, but I'm not a jumper; I'm (still) a bronze-pre-silverish dancer and adult synchro skater, who only started skating as an adult, so I certainly would not be as hard on boots as you would likely be.  Some other posters in the thread I linked above have jumped in them though, so it's clearly possible.

As far as the heel height is concerned, I actually had mine raised by one layer at coach's suggestion when I ordered my current boots, to help bring my weight forward a little and correct a tendency to skate at the back of my blade.  You mention orthotics; I wear orthotics in mine.

A friend has the 2510 (Finesse).  The Finesse is a lovely looking boot, but her new ones felt softer than mine at 3yo.  Not sure how they'd stand up to any jumping.

[fsk8r]

Just caught up with this thread as I've been away. I'm another with Jackson synchro boots and blades which I use for dance and synchro. I've another pair of boots I use for freestyle (Graf Edmontons). But I do now and again jump in my synchro boots. There's enough support to jump, I just don't like jumping on the blades as I'm scared of falling because of the shorter heel. But when I have been brave enough, there's no problem jumping on them.
Synchro boots are designed to be supportive enough for at least Axels and probably low level doubles as Axels are allowed in synchro (no doubles though). So if this sounds like your jumping level then they might provide a good compromise between free and dance. I do really like the toe-point that they give me.

I'm in the UK so have similar problems with ordering boots that you have. For both pairs of boots I was sized up using low level freestyle boots (easier to find) so that I could get the fit with the brands and then ordered the boots I wanted.

Edeas seem to be taking off in the UK. Some skaters really like how light they feel, but they aren't able to be heat molded, so it's harder to get bits punched out. The other brand which is still very popular is Risport who I believe the founders of Edea left, but I don't know much about the Edeas to know whether they're similar or not.

You mention that you're having problems with your current boots cutting into your legs. Have you tried gel tubes? They can go around your ankles and provide a bit of padding to stop the rubbing and bleeding. Bunga and Silipos are the two manufacturers I know, but once you start looking around the internet you should be able to find others and get the best price (they seem to be sold by specialist foot companies).

[Elsa]

Oh, yes, gel sleeves - wonderful little things!  I picked those up for my comps the first time I tried to come back to skating in 2005 - such a difference! And no more fighting with moleskin and/or round cosmetic sponges    

I bought my comps in the fall of 1990, I think, and had the soles rebuilt in 2005.  I was also a bit overbooted to compensate for breaking down boots quickly - it wasn't a problem with the Jackson premieres - they were holding up quite well, and the break-in period wasn't too bad.  I just can't get past the "not feeling right" thing, and weight loss changed my foot enough to alter my size.  I do wonder if I could've gone down a step or two in stiffness and still been happy.  My guess is yes - I just don't have the time or energy to skate as hard as I used to (no more  2xpatch, 2xfreestyle x 5 days a week), and I spent far more time on moves, spins and dance than I did on jumps in those boots (recovery from falls and the pounding of landings is harder now  ).  I do think one of my issues with the Premieres is the microfiber lining.  I like leather - it is different, and different enough that it matters to me for some reason.

I'm not sure about having the backs of an already built stock boot cut down - my friend ordered hers that way. Riedell's factory is about an hour from our metro area, so things like rebuilds and ordering specials/premiums (Riedell's "customs"), are pretty easy here.  Regarding the backs - I checked last night, and my Jackson's have a lower back than our old comps, so maybe check that before you have new boots cut any further, or go with dance/synchro. Current styles may be low enough to give you more toe point than your old boots, while dance boots might feel too low compared to your boots? 

I really hadn't planned to use my skates, so did try on a number of their skates- some of which were men's WIFA's.  The women's didn't work, but the men's felt good until I walked around in them- they hit me all wrong over my arch- never even bothered going on the ice.

Ooh, interesting - I asked about going to a men's last when I was at my fitting, and he said right away "the arch will hit you wrong, let's just build out a ladies' boot."  So yeah, apparently they are different, but I have heard it mentioned as an option here before.

This came up in my twitter feed yesterday - it might be helpful: http://www.theskatinglesson.com/talking-equipment-with-chris-bartlett/   

[Loops]

You guys have given me lots to think about.   

Fsk8r-  can you tell me how it works to mail order boots?  I am scared stiff of this whole process, I simply can't imagine buying a boot, THEN trying it on.  Do you do lots of sending back/re-ordering?  Or do you just order a whole bunch at once and send the non-winnners back?  Since everyone at my club does it this way, I presume the guy who handles orders knows what he's doing, but still, it's not like ordering a cute pair of heels.

I talked with Coach #1 last night at synchro practice.   She said "no, not worth it"  straight off to synchro boots.   I'll come back to that though.

She said, in terms of brands, Jackson, Risport and Graf should be on my list.  I read somewhere that Risport have a narrow profile.  I found the measurement thing though at Kinzie's Closet and once I get a chance to measure my own feet will see what the widths are like.  That video that Elsa posted was very interesting when they discussed the Jackson vs Riedell thing.  My former pro-shop guy said (on a post-quitting visit in early 90's) that he'd never put me back in a narrow boot like Riedells.  I wasn't buying skates that day though, so we didn't pursue it.    Gotta admit- I kinda like the Risport dance boots with the swirlies on them though.....

When we talked about details on skates, she said free or dance boot is fine, at my level it doesn't really matter.  I'm curious about the lower backs on the Jackson's.....I know at least one of the two the shops my club order's from does not carry Premiere's, but I will definitely ask about it.  Interestingly, she said that for her, she wanted a stiffer boot than she could get in a dance model (she was competing dance internationally), so bought a super stiff Freestyle boot and had the back cut out.  So returning to the synchro boot idea.....sounds pretty similar, right?  And there is no one here that could do the surgery for me.  I do not know when she bought her skates, but I think she competed in them, so it's been about 10 years, and given that no one here is worried about freestyle, she may just not know that much about synchro boots.

I've been looking at this "stiffness rating" thing.  The Finesse are rated at a 45, the other two I'm looking at (online...so still prior to foot/other coach input and subject to change) are the Risport dance and the new Jackson Synchro.  These two are rated at a 65 and 70 respectively.  The Premiere is a 65, the Freestyle (another boot I've seen mentioned on these forums) is a 45.  Graf seems to cater to the high level competitor.  Neither the Graf Edmonton Special nor the Dance have stiffness ratings, but I'm guessing they're in the 70+ballpark even though pricewise they seem near the bottom of the Grafs (!).  Ok so I get what they're trying to do, but in practice what the heck does that mean?  The only thing I have to go on is the Jackson's that I nearly borrowed- if I'm right on the model, then they're Artiste's which are a 25.  I knew I'd have totaled those boots for the club, too.  So, what would the Comps have been at?  I was definitely overbooted back in the day, and I know it affected my skating, but the Royal wasn't doing it for me, so there was really no other option.

Elsa you read my mind on the support level questions.  I won't be doing much more than a waltz jump here, but I hope to be back working on the rest of my pre-silvers before the end of the season.  I'm ginormous for figure skaters- 5 8 and ok, I'll admit it 140 lbs (63 kg)...same height and about 10 lbs heavier than when I skated before.  Could a boot rated at 45 do it for me right now??  It'd be nice to have the smaller price tag, but it's more important to get the right boot.

Thanks ladies!  You are all wonderful!

[fsk8r]

Graf Dance are really really soft boots. If you think about jumping in them you'll break them down within months. I've heard competitive dancers get through them in under a year, but there's no break in period because they're so soft. My sister (another adult skater) broke them down in about 18 months.
The Edmontons are designed for up to triples. They are however a lot higher on the back of the leg than the dance or synchro boots (there's no way you can point your toes in them).

With regards to the synchro boots, I don't think many coaches know much about them. And I know that my former dance coach used to cut down her boots to get the stiffness of boot and the low back. I decided I wanted to go for the stiffer boot so they didn't break down so fast (and it has bought me jumping options in synchro).

My shop in the UK doesn't like ordering lots and sending them back, so with the Jackson synchro boots, I used my sizing for my old boots as they fitted fine, but with the Grafs I went around trying on other people's boots who have the same size foot as me whether they were the same model or not. He was unhappy about ordering them and having them sit around as there wouldn't be that much market for size 40 synchro boots. If they were kid sized boots he'd have had less of a problem. Other larger shops probably wouldn't have worried so much. But I was really concerned about the not trying on bit, but trying on all the other boots in advance did help.

One thing to consider with any boots is that most these days are heat moldable so if you have lumps and bumps on the sides of your feet they can be easily stretched/punched out which helps with fit. I've yet to hear of anyone having the boot made smaller.

[TreSk8sAZ]

Although I can't help with the dance boot versus synchro boot thing, I can speak to having the back cut down. I have semi-custom Harlick High-Testers. I compete freestyle and I've just moved up to pre-silver dance.

I originally got them with the backs normal. However, they were really rubbing around the top of the back of the ankle, and sometimes it felt like the boot stopped my ankle bend. I spoke with the bootmaker, and he felt that cutting the back down by 1/2 inch (I think it was) would really help and allow me to point better.

It made a huge difference, and I could tell right away that the boots were more comfortable. I felt I could even get a better push because I could bend more easily overall. If you are wanting to jump, and not wanting to go with synchro boots, I think it may be a nice compromise between dance boots and freestyle boots.

[Loops]

Thanks everyone! 

Gel sleeves- any idea where I can get those?  The one's I've found at the store my club will likely order the skates from are, sit down....40 Euros.    fsk8r, what do you pay for those out of curiosity?  Maybe I just need to figure out how to say it in French (the shop has it in English and it's a weird brand- Jerry's?).

Still haven't decided whether to go with a dance or standard boot.  Trying to convince DH that we need to take a family trip to Paris in the next few weeks so I can try skates on (while he takes kids to the zoo or something).  He's thrilled  .

I did go to the "skate store" here in our town, hoping to try on skates.  He keeps no stock and does mail order too, so it's pointless.  Especially since his prices aren't competitive with the clubs.  It's a shame.  It also means that unless I do the heat molding myself (seems like this might be possible with a convection oven....any triers?) that ain't gonna happen, let alone cutting boots down, punching them out etc etc etc.....[sigh]  He actually told me that the heat molding is something my feet will do to the boot as I use them.... doesn't jive with what I've read though....thoughts? 

Re: the heat molding- I read lots about Jackson's getting loose over time. Not cool.....is heat molding a factor in that and it be fixed/helped by redo-ing the heat molding? 

[fsk8r]

I pay about £20 for a 20cm strip of gel tubes. So I would definitely have a look on the internet. Just google silipos and see what comes up in the podiatry shops. You should be able to get them for less than 40€. The Jerry's ones seem to be very expensive like the Bunga branded ones. I think the UK internet shop I used was called Simply Feet. Hopefully that gives you a starting point for finding a French one (otherwise they might deliver within the EU).

I don't think redoing the heat molding is the reason why the Jackson's get loose. My old ones became loose in the heel as the padding became compressed from lots of wear. I'd have them for over 5 years at the time. I wore a gel tube on my landing foot for another year which gave a bit of extra padding to make the boot fit for a little bit longer before replacing them.

[Query]

If boots get a little loose with time, you may be able to tighten them up by adding a layer under your insoles. Given a choice, I'd choose heat mold-able boots, or customs.

Many, though not all, Dance skaters want full range of motion - point and flex, sideways bend (pronation and supination). That isn't as common with freestyle skaters, who want the skates to protect them from moving too far, especially sideways bend. If you are doing high level Synchro with jumps, you may need more support and motion control too.

By the way fit is a lot more important with the modern stiffer boots. So brands that worked well for you in the past might not now. And I've heard that some brands, notably Reidell, have changed their default shapes over time.

I'd hate to buy mail order. Especially if you don't fully trust your local fitter.

Do you have relatively thin feet, with toes that aren't much wider than your heels? They call that a Northern European last, and I've heard that Edea fits many such people well.

[taka]

I've seen Silipos gel tubes on sixpointzero.com at £12 for the longer one (25cm? - enough for 2 ankles if you cut it in half), though you'd need to email them for postage costs to France. Also seen it on footcare websites in the UK for a similar price but with a hefty courier shipping price on top.

I paid £13 for a single Bunga gel tube (enough for 1 ankle) from Can-Am.co.uk as I was visiting the shop anyway and needed some in a rush!

Another boot type to think about is the Riedell LS series. They are supposedly free boots, stiff enough for jumping, but have a lowish, padded back so are great for toe point. Quite a few of the adults who dance at my rink have either 1310LS or 2010LS. (910LS may not be stiff enough for an adult returner who may want to jump in them at some point, unless you are very slim / petite!) A few of the teens have 2010LS's and use them for both dance and free  - they are doing assorted doubles in them as well as Tango , Blues and Starlight waltz etc level dances.

They are not easy to get hold of though - I'm in Scotland and wound up flying down to Everglides (south coast of England!) to get fitted. I have 2010LS's and love them! I went with this model as I'm very overweight. It was well worth travelling to be properly fitted (Budget airlines are great!). My old ones were too big and caused a whole bunch of problems with my skating that I'm still trying to fix several months down the line in my new boots and blades.

[Loops]

I'll explore more in the UK....no language barrier, and if shipping is obnoxious, a friend from London is coming in a month.

Interesting about the changes to Riedells.  Alas, they are unavailable in France.  My coaches actually thought they didn't make them anymore!  Seems their European distribution either is non-existent or prohibitive somehow.   If I could wait for the summer when I go home, I'd head back to my old skate shop- the guy is STILL there and I have infinite confidence in him- to have a look.  But I'm limited to Gam, Jackson, Edea, Risport and Graf.  Hm- doesn't seem so limiting!  Except that Gam is a spinoff of Jackson, as Edea is from Risport, no?  So I wonder how different their lasts really are.  I don't know if I have a foot for the Edea last.....my toes are wider than my heel, and based on the Jacksons I've tried, I'll definitely need a split width.  I've heard Gam's have a narrower heel than Jacksons, so I'd like to try some.  I've read that Edea's are uber comfortable, but I'm skeptical about the sole....especially with shifting blades, since I pronate a bit, but I suspect they're a narrow last like the Risports.  I just have NO clue how they're going to fit me.  For me, brand is second to fit.  I don't care which it is, as long as my feet are happy.


So heat moldable is a good thing, and holds up?  My skates pre-date all the interior padding, and while it seems a very good thing, if it squishes down enough to alter fit, that's a bummer.  I don't want to be buying new skates in a year or so just because of that.

I simply can't imagine doing this by mail order, and am pretty freaked out by it!  My husband thinks it's nuts to go to Paris for this, but he's un-initiated.  He also thinks I'm nuts for starting skating again.  But that's another story.

Query- I see you're in MD- I used to go to Skater's Paradise- how can anyone top Mike?!

You know....I hadn't thought of going to the UK for skates (face palm).....there's an O/N ferry from here to Plymouth.....any decent fitters there?  Be a nice excuse to visit cousins in Exeter, too.....but Paris is conceptually closer- more doable for a weekend, and the club gets a 20% discount....

[fsk8r]

I'm sure there is a rink shop in Plymouth as there is a rink there. But the one that taka and I have both used is at Gosport (near Portsmouth). Not sure where you are coming from in France, but there are ferries into there. Or else flights go to Southampton.

And thanks taka for correcting me on prices, it's a few years since I last bought gel tubes.

Incidentally, I wouldn't worry too much about the padding on the Jacksons compressing. I think most people are experiencing it after a significant amount of wear so you shouldn't be needing new boots in a year.

[sarahspins]

Except that Gam is a spinoff of Jackson, as Edea is from Risport, no?  So I wonder how different their lasts really are.

Not quite, at one point they were separate companies, and Gam was purchased by Jackson a few years ago. There has been some mingling of features between the lines, but the lasts aren't the same.  From what I understand based on what I've heard of them, Gam has a slightly wider toe box (and Jacksons are already considered one of the widest) and narrower heel than the same size Jackson would, but having never tried them myself, I can't confirm that at all.  I wear split width Jacksons (E ball, B heel) that fit me very well so I wouldn't consider changing brands just to try something out when what I have now works great with my feet.

Edea is more of a spin off of Risport in that one of the founders of Risport went on to start Edea, and interestingly now some of the Edea features that set that brand apart are showing up in Risport too (most obvious is the thinner soles).

I would really strive to talk to as many fitters as you can and get several recommendations before you narrow down your selections.  I lucked out when I went with Jacksons about 4 years ago, price was a huge factor for me when I was choosing new boots since I had previously been wearing custom SP Teri's, which were just enough too small that I needed new skates, but I definitely didn't have customs in my budget, or even stock SP Teri's.  A stock jackson with the modified width was less than half what I would have paid for a new pair of custom boots, and they fit me better than any pair of boots I've ever had to that point did (my new Jacksons are better than that first pair, even though they are the same size - they are just a different boot model, with different features).

Padding compressing (in any brand of boot) generally doesn't cause fit issues.  What it can do is uncover fit problems that were there from the beginning, but masked because the padding was taking up some extra space.  It's not uncommon in a lot of skates for the heel to feel relatively snug at first, and loosen up over time, so that's not just a Jackson issue. In heat moldable boots, if there is molding material in the heel counter (there is in Jackson since about 3 or 4 years ago, I'm not sure about other brands) it can be altered to fit tighter if the heel loosens over time, but if they were fit incorrectly it might not be possible to make them fit.

[Query]

Query- I see you're in MD- I used to go to Skater's Paradise- how can anyone top Mike?!

Mike is great. A true fanatic - in this case a very good thing. But even Mike says being fit by the master boot maker himself (/herself if there are any) is usually ideal. E.g., he tells people who want Custom Klingbeils to go to their factory in New York, a few hundred miles away.

Alas, France is pretty far from where anyone I know of who makes high end skate boots.

Do any skate boot makers send highly trained factory reps (like Phil from Harlick, an ex master boot maker) to competitions near you? If so, it might be worth a visit. See mgrunes.com/boots/BootExpert.html for boot company contact info.

France has produced some very good figure skaters. There MUST be some pretty good boot fitters in the vicinity - right?

If your feet haven't changed since the last time you were fit, you could use the old fit. But I suspect 25 years is too long.

[Loops]

Oh no, I can't go back to this Riedell.  If I had access to them, I'd certainly give them a go, 'cause they're good boots and perhaps I just need a B now instead of the A.  Although Mike told me back in the 90's (as he stretched the toe out as much as possible) he'd put me in another brand, although lots has changed since then.  If I could hold out until this summer, he'd sell me my skates, but I just can't.

I am going to Paris next week.  I just can't imagine doing this via mail order-  I've no idea how the fitter is there, but I won't know until I try.   I called them today, and it seemed like they were reasonably knowledgable.  Certainly better than what I found here in town.....

Your suggestion about competitions is a good one.  I hadn't thought about that.  There are some good European Brands (Graf in Switzerland come to mind), but I'm still learning the landscape and alas $$'s going to be a factor (second to fit, of course).  I just really need these skates sooner rather than later,  so I can break them in in time for the competitions end of January.

France is funny- imagine the gov't moving to NYC, then shift the populations of LA and Chicago there, too.   That's Paris- everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is centered there- most of the people, all the $$ gov't, everything (except the beaches).  You can't even get anywhere without going through Paris.  So perhaps that's where all the skate fitters are, too.  But I'd lay down money that most of the top-flight French skaters train in the US.  I'm just glad my coach is a decent sharpener.....he's not Mike, but I don't have much choice!