Placing MITF patterns on NHL hockey rink diagram

[jjane45]

Well, I am having problems with spacing the Three-Turns pattern on silver evenly, as well as turning on the top of lobe.

Next time I step on ice I'll need to bring a marker and mark the start, top, and the end of each lobe. What do you think of the diagram below? Does it sort of makes sense for 6 lobes down the rink? Thanks a lot
Click on the image to enlarge.

[phoenix]

yes--if you're doing 6 lobes, the red line in the center is your main landmark--finish lobe #3 on that line. At my rink those end circles are bigger & following them sets you up for a 5 lobe pattern instead of 6. YMMV. See how it works at your rink; you may have to finish the first lobe inside the painted line a bit.

[nicklaszlo]

5 lobes makes for more logical introductory steps because you can start on the top edge of the rink.

[Doubletoe]

I've also always done 5 lobes for all of my MIF tests.  The first lobe and last lobe are on the hockey circles.  The middle lobe is between the two red dots and is bisected by the red center line.  Assuming you are an adult, aren't the circles awfully small for you when you do 6?

[jjane45]

Assuming you are an adult, aren't the circles awfully small for you when you do 6?

honestly, I'm surprised to hear five. coaches here like to adhere to the rulebook patterns as much as possible, and it's eight lobes there.

if the spacing is correct, each turn is about the size of a semi hockey circle. is it considered too small for this pattern?

[phoenix]

For this exercise 6 is good so you do the same number of turns on each foot. When you get to the double 3's, I usually teach a 5 lobe pattern.

[icedancer]

For this exercise 6 is good so you do the same number of turns on each foot. When you get to the double 3's, I usually teach a 5 lobe pattern.

6 lobes makes sense to me for the same reason.

[nicklaszlo]

I meant 7 lobes.

[alejeather]

I try to fit in 8 lobes (4 sets) of these three turns. Sometimes I make it just fine and other times I don't. But I can always tell by the center red line if I'm going to make it. If I finish my second set at the red line, I'll be just fine. But if I'm already way past it, it's better not to try the 4th set and run into the wall.

On my first try at the Silver test, I did four sets of the FO-BI, but I was pretty close to the wall on the last turn. I decided to only do three sets of the FI-BO turns. The judges didn't say anything about number of lobes. Coach this morning recommended I stick to three sets, because with a stronger push and bigger lobe I had more flow and a better turn.

I use the red dots as an axis and keep the whole pattern on one side of the center of the rink, but other than that and the red line, I don't think too much about placement of the lobes. As far as when to turn, there was an interesting thread a little while back about how to know when you're at the top of the lobe. One poster mentioned it's when you're parallel to the boards and that has often helped me place a turn correctly.

[jjane45]

Yes I tried parallel to the boards tip, still not quite there yet.

I also feel we are talking about hockey circles of significantly different sizes, lol.

[retired]

Yes I tried parallel to the boards tip, still not quite there yet.

I also feel we are talking about hockey circles of significantly different sizes, lol.

The hockey circles are standardized at a 15' radius, or, 30' across.  What makes a difference is how big the ice surface is, because there might not be much room between the outside of the hockey circle and the blue line, and the neutral zone can get squished rather small as well.   So using a hockey circle itself as a pointer is helpful but be careful of the areas inbetween as the size would be different.

[jjane45]

The hockey circles are standardized at a 15' radius, or, 30' across. 

Actually, I've seen diagrams that say 20' radius. Phoenix also mentioned larger end circles upthread.

So using a hockey circle itself as a pointer is helpful but be careful of the areas in between as the size would be different.

Good point. I need to check this out at the test rink.

[PinkLaces]

The hockey circles are standardized at a 15' radius, or, 30' across.  What makes a difference is how big the ice surface is, because there might not be much room between the outside of the hockey circle and the blue line, and the neutral zone can get squished rather small as well.   So using a hockey circle itself as a pointer is helpful but be careful of the areas inbetween as the size would be different.

This is the advice my coach usually gives.  I practice a large rink, but usually when I test it's on a smaller rink.  My coach always says that the hockey dots and circles are standard so use those as a guide. 

[Doubletoe]

My apologies for not realizing which pattern you were doing (it's been awhile since I took the Silver MIF test!).  You would use 5 lobes for the spirals, but 8 lobes for the alternating 3-turns in the field (at least according to the diagram in the rulebook).  For 8 lobes down each side, you would use a similar lobe pattern as the brackets on the Adult Gold and Intermediate tests, which are smaller than the hockey circles and actually start just above the red end line, not at the top of the hockey circle.  I just drew the 8 Silver alternating 3-turn lobes on a scale print-out of a hockey rink and attached to this post below.

As for knowing when to turn, wait until you come closest to the side wall and are about to start moving away from it.  That's when you turn.  Practice turning *after* you think you've hit the top of the lobe and look at your tracings.  Most likely, you will have turned right at the top of the lobe (turning too early is a much more common error than turning too late).

The hockey circles are standardized at a 15' radius, or, 30' across.  What makes a difference is how big the ice surface is, because there might not be much room between the outside of the hockey circle and the blue line, and the neutral zone can get squished rather small as well.   So using a hockey circle itself as a pointer is helpful but be careful of the areas inbetween as the size would be different.

Both NHL and Olympic sized rinks are the same length (only the width is different), so using the hockey circles and red center line and end lines as your guide will work on either size.  I have practiced and tested MIF on both rink sizes and never had a problem.  The only difference I noticed was the amount of room between the hockey circles and the side walls.  If you are using the hockey circles as your guide on an NHL surface, you'll need to stay right on the circles or you can end up uncomfortably close to that side wall.

[sarahspins]

I did 8 turns on my 3's in the field.. I had originally been practicing for 6 but I would sometimes come up a bit short and my coach made me work on the layout for 8 because there are 8 on the diagram (even though the number required is not specified), and it involved making sure those turns were on smaller lobes with more controlled edges.. it worked out fine.  When I do them now that I'm no longer working on passing that test I do 6 since I don't care if I fill out the ice or not - if I'm a bit short, it doesn't really matter since I do them as more of a warm up   When I do the double 3's on gold I end up doing 6 lobes, but the rulebook does state 4 to 6 half circles for both of those.

The lobes on the brackets are different because there's some overlap on the pattern when you switch sides... if you were to do the same brackets from one end of the rink to the other only 6 lobes would really fit, but since you loop back and start again for the second set the lobes can be bigger.  I've been spending a lot of time on those recently, with lots of discussions about just how far past the red line to go, and ultimately my coach wants the 3rd turn to end on the red line, and the 4th to start on it, which basically has me ending on the blue line and skating back to the other blue line for the other half of the pattern.

My coach and I had LOTS of discussions about the number of lobes for the spirals on silver.  I ended up doing 4 because she felt that they were "lopsided" doing 5 (she liked them in pairs), and it was really difficult to fit 6, so we decided I could do 4 since I didn't have a problem doing them that way and I wasn't falling into flats trying to hold the edges longer.

[Doubletoe]

The lobes on the brackets are different because there's some overlap on the pattern when you switch sides... if you were to do the same brackets from one end of the rink to the other only 6 lobes would really fit, but since you loop back and start again for the second set the lobes can be bigger.  I've been spending a lot of time on those recently, with lots of discussions about just how far past the red line to go, and ultimately my coach wants the 3rd turn to end on the red line, and the 4th to start on it, which basically has me ending on the blue line and skating back to the other blue line for the other half of the pattern.

Yep, my MIF coaches had me do the brackets from red line to far blue line as well, then start back up on the near blue line, so each set of 4 was about 2/3 rink length.  I can't believe I'm saying this, but I almost miss that bracket pattern, LOL!  Once it stopped being scary, it was almost meditative, like I imagine figures must have been.

[jjane45]

My apologies for not realizing which pattern you were doing (it's been awhile since I took the Silver MIF test!).  You would use 5 lobes for the spirals, but 8 lobes for the alternating 3-turns in the field (at least according to the diagram in the rulebook). 

Thank you for clarifying, now I feel better. It was scary when consecutive replies preferred just 5 lobes for the 3 turns pattern haha. Guess I am posting the 8 lobes version here for reference as well (sorry for poor image quality). Will train both for a while. I feel more comfortable doing 6 because it's easier to turn with some power, but 8 is probably safer esp. if the back turns come out little smaller on a bad day.

My coach and I had LOTS of discussions about the number of lobes for the spirals on silver.  I ended up doing 4 because she felt that they were "lopsided" doing 5 (she liked them in pairs), and it was really difficult to fit 6, so we decided I could do 4 since I didn't have a problem doing them that way and I wasn't falling into flats trying to hold the edges longer.

I do 4 spirals currently and have to check whether I flat them out. It's easier to control for sure.

[Doubletoe]

Thank you for clarifying, now I feel better. It was scary when consecutive replies preferred just 5 lobes for the 3 turns pattern haha. Guess I am posting the 8 lobes version here for reference as well (sorry for poor image quality). Will train both for a while. I feel more comfortable doing 6 because it's easier to turn with some power, but 8 is probably safer esp. if the back turns come out little smaller on a bad day.



I do 4 spirals currently and have to check whether I flat them out. It's easier to control for sure.

That 8-lobe pattern would definitely work, but if they feel a little squished, try starting just above the red end line (did my attachment come through?  I couldn't figure out how to post pictures except as an attachment).

[jjane45]

That 8-lobe pattern would definitely work, but if they feel a little squished, try starting just above the red end line (did my attachment come through?  I couldn't figure out how to post pictures except as an attachment).

Thank you! No attachment in sight, maybe it was over the size limit?
What about posting it on photobucket / picasaweb / flickr and click on "share" to get a public link

[Doubletoe]

I can see the attachment in the bottom left corner of my Reply #13 above.  It's a little icon called "8 lobe pattern.jpg".  Can you see it?  Just click on it to open or download the JPG image.

[jjane45]

For 8 lobes down each side, you would use a similar lobe pattern as the brackets on the Adult Gold and Intermediate tests, which are smaller than the hockey circles and actually start just above the red end line, not at the top of the hockey circle.  I just drew the 8 Silver alternating 3-turn lobes on a scale print-out of a hockey rink and attached to this post below.

Thank you so much Doubletoe as always   I see the diagram now.

Question: would it be a problem if someone does a 6 lobes pattern and start on the hockey circle, like in the opening post picture?

[nicklaszlo]

I doubt the number of lobes will change your mark much, but filling the rink might make a slight favorable impression.

I usually mess up the first right back inside three.  So I want to have a bunch of right back inside threes to show I can do the turn even if I mess up the first one.

[nicklaszlo]

I do not think it is important to do the same number of lobes on each foot.  If I were judging a skater who did 7 lobes, I would probably have figured out if they could do the turns by the sixth lobe.  The "extra" lobe could be considered part of the optional end pattern.  Essentially, I prefer an odd number of lobes because I think it makes a nice pattern that fills the rink using logical transitions.

[nicklaszlo]

One thought about the drawings I am seeing here:  I think every other turn should come quite close to the boards.  This may depend on your rink shape and choice of long axis.

[sarahspins]

I do not think it is important to do the same number of lobes on each foot.

My coach and my judge friend would disagree.