switching tracks for testing and competition

[treesprite]

I tell myself I probably won't ever compete, but given that I can't predict the future, I have given myself room for "just in case". 

I have preliminaries from when I was a kid (did not take any USFS tests after that). If I switch to adult track, it only counts as pre-bronze, so competing would mean that even with skating up to bronze, I could only have a 1.5 minute program. However, if I were ever to compete and did standard track, I could skate up to pre-juvenile and get 2.0 minutes of program time. This is important not because I'd want to skate longer (I have asthma...), but because  there is a piece of music  which I can't help imagining myself skating to when I hear it, but using it would require a lot of cutting; an additional 30 seconds of program time is 30 seconds that wouldn't have to be cut from the music, which in terms of music is a lot.  Of course at the moment I am nowhere near my previous abilities, so I'm looking at a couple years in the future. However, that doesn't mean I couldn't start working on a program and fill in elements as I get them back, so I would have to make a decision soon (programs are fun to have even if never done before an audience).

If I wanted to take future tests, it makes more sense to me to do adult track testing, because it would be easier to pass the jumps.  But I want to be able to do higher level spins. Any competing would not be for the purpose of winning something over other skaters, but to have that "my moment on ice" experience, so if my jumps aren't so great when going against other group 4 skaters on standard track, I wouldn't really care (I'm assuming adults who skate standard track at that age were skaters before adult track came along, not people who started skating at middle age).

Anyone have thoughts of their own on this topic?

[techskater]

For Prelim and higher but lower than Novice, you'd have to check with the LOC on whether they'd let you in the event.  Also, Bronze IS 1:50 max now...

[TreSk8sAZ]

(note: Assuming you are in the US b/c you said USFS)

I guess I'm a bit confused about where you are versus where you want to go. Competition programs are generally at a higher level than testing. For example, standard track pre-juv kids often have through double lutz and sometimes double-double combos. Bronze test doesn't need a flip or a lutz, but you see Lutz combos at Bronze all the time. Depending on your area, the local competitions might be at a slightly lower level, but still above test elements.

If you do take the Adult track tests, nothing is really stopping you from doing higher level spins. The only restriction is that you would need to pass Bronze and skate up to Silver to do flying spins. But I have definitely seen change-foot combo spins and spins with features at bronze.

I have to be honest that I really don't ever see adults competing standard track at the lower levels. Although generally allowed (some competitions do put age limits, but most don't) because the adult levels are offered it generally just doesn't happen. I have seen adults compete at Junior or Senior standard track to have competition or to do Regionals, but it's pretty rare to have the crossover for someone who would be a Bronze or Silver skater into standard track Prelim or Pre-Juv. The only time I really know of that happening is when a kid starts at 14 or 15, or comes back to the sport in college, before they can actually test and compete as an adult.

[treesprite]

I was reading requirements and limitations and stuff about the different tracks. Perhaps some of the information is incorrect. But it looks to me like people are limited a lot more than what is being said here.

[treesprite]

I'm wondering if what I was reading was for test track. Unfortuneately, I didn;t save links to all the stuff I was reading.

[sarahspins]

I could only have a 1.5 minute program

Not sure where you are pulling that from but you get up to 1:50 (it's 1:40 +/- 10 seconds) in Bronze.  Silver gets 20 seconds more (max 2:10).  If you passed preliminary you can compete at Bronze.  Once you pass Bronze freeskate you can skate up to Silver, so there would be no "need" to take higher tests than that if you wanted to compete at that level.

The only significant difference from Bronze is that axels and flying spins are allowed at Silver, and in terms of content you are allowed one more jump combo (3 instead of 2, so you get 5 total jumping elements instead of 4) and one more spin (3 instead of 2).  So you do get more time, but to be competitive, you'll have to make the most out of it and include as many elements as you can.

Well balanced program requirements are here: http://www.usfsa.org/content/AdultSinglesWBPChart.pdf

The test requirements aren't much different aside from dictating which jumps and spins are required.

[treesprite]

I don't have a desire to be competitive, just might want to have a moment on ice to share my joy with the world, and given the scarcity of exhibitions, the only option left is participating in "competition" events.

[Skittl1321]

I don't have a desire to be competitive, just might want to have a moment on ice to share my joy with the world, and given the scarcity of exhibitions, the only option left is participating in "competition" events.

If you don't care, just skate the program you want.  As long as it isn't absurdly long, at a local competition it seems unlikely they'll shut your music off, they'll just take a deduction from your score.  Same with element limitations, they don't stop you and escort you off the ice, they just take a deduction- a friend skated pre-bronze at pacific coast sectionals and said a number of skater exceeded the well balanced program requirements (though the one she talked to didn't realize it, and thinks that is the reason she placed poorly).  The music length is more of a risk than the extra elements though, if it is way too long, they may shut it off.  But 2:00 is close enough to the bronze time it is unlikely the ref will call for the music to be turned off, so you're only facing a deduction for a score you don't care about.

Not sure where you are pulling that from but you get up to 1:50 (it's 1:40 +/- 10 seconds) in Bronze.

Just to clarify it is not 1:40 +/- 10 for bronze, the rule book says maximum 1:50.  You can do anytime less than that.

[treesprite]

I keep thinking USFSA because everyone seems to be so hung up on it. However, having now caught up on my reading of ISIA, it appears that if I ever decide to compete, doing so with ISIA would be a better choice for a couple reasons. One is that I'd get a 2-minute program. The other is that there apparently are a lot of competition opportunities in my district, whereas USFSA competitions are  few and usually far away. It's also less expensive.  I stopped taking ISIA tests after FS 4 due to switching to USFSA, and then only took USFSA preliminaries, so while I could do any spins I want as long as they don't fly, I would not have to do double jumps (I may end up never going back to them because I have osteoporosis). Of course I'm talking about at least a year from now, given my current pace.

[PinkLaces]

The open Silver category in ISI might be a really good fit for you. Since you have already passed FS4, you wouldn't need to test at all to compete.  Jumps are limited to axel and below plus any spin you want to do.  Not sure about the flying spins though. 

[sarahspins]

Only elements from FS5 and below are allowed in Open Silver, so no flying spins (no flying spins in Gold either).

[treesprite]

I wonder if a jump change of foot would be allowed,  like in a sit-jump-sit.

[sarahspins]

I believe those are still considered flying spins.

[techskater]

For USFS, they are not flying spins.  Check with someone in ISI for the rule.

[Skittl1321]

For USFS, they are not flying spins.  Check with someone in ISI for the rule.

Seriously?  So jumping change of foot spins are allowed at the lowest level?

[FigureSpins]

The ISI considers a sit-jump-sit spin to be an uncaptured flying spin, so it can only be performed in a Freestyle 7 or higher program. In the Open Freestyle events, it would be allowed in Gold or Platinum.

As far as I know, you can't do it in lieu of a change-foot spin at the lower ISI levels.

[treesprite]

The ISI considers a sit-jump-sit spin to be an uncaptured flying spin, so it can only be performed in a Freestyle 7 or higher program. In the Open Freestyle events, it would be allowed in Gold or Platinum.

As far as I know, you can't do it in lieu of a change-foot spin at the lower ISI levels.

Thanks for the information. Is there someplace online where I can read such type of information? (tried to find it myself and could not).

[FigureSpins]

I used the ISI Handbook, which (afaik) isn't online in its entirety.

If you look at the reference information sticky in this forum, there's a link to the ISI test element descriptions, but not the formal rules like this.

http://skatingforums.com/index.php?board=29.0

Anyone competing or testing ISI should have the rulebook for that organization.  It's not terribly expensive and it's a great reference source.  The ISI handbook describes each element in detail, right down to what edge, which toepick, and demonstrating control.  Well worth the money.

[treesprite]

I have the handbook.... from the early 1980's.

[FigureSpins]

I have the handbook.... from the early 1980's.

They've done at least two major rewrites since then, including merging the Handbook with the Competitors Manual.  The Open Freestyle tests/events didn't even exist.  Best to get a new version.

[Skittl1321]

I took my judging test with a handbook that was 1 year out of date (this was a few years back) and missed a question because rules had changed!!! 

It is a very good idea to keep an updated copy around.  I wish ISI would put it online like USFS has done.

[FigureSpins]

ITA.  I think the ISI sees the handbook as a source of revenue, which is why they hold their cards so close to the vest.  Even out of date, its a good reference resource and they know that information is valuable.

I even use it when I have to teach a USFSA Basic Skills class element.  The descriptions are very good.

Don't worry about the judging test.  I got two questions correct on one exam because I had reviewed the handbook updates before taking the exam.  Yet, while I passed my Silver judging test, there was one question that still has me stumped.  I don't understand why my answer was wrong. 

Since the ISI's been pushed out of this area by the USFSA, it's a moot point now.  There's nothing to judge, lol.