Ballet benefits without taking up ballet?

[sampaguita]

I'm jealous of strong ballet arms, strong ballet legs, and elegant ballet posture. However, I don't think I can afford to take up ballet lessons in a ballet studio in addition to skating.

Is there any way to at least get the strength and posture of a ballerina without having to go through ballet classes? I don't have significant experience in ballet (well, I took a month of ballet when I was maybe 5 years old, but all I can remember are the arm and leg positions).

[Skittl1321]

Those beautiful ballet benefits come with years and years of hard work.  If you could get them without taking up ballet, everyone would look like that!

An option if you can't go to a class is to buy a Ballet Workout *NYCB has one* DVD and do that at home.  However, if you don't know what you are doing without the corrections of a teacher the benefits won't be the same (I know I did Pilates wrong for years...with no benefit, got into a class and WOW). 

Personally, I'd like the Canadian ladies and pairs skaters to release a workout tape- everyone of them is crazy buff.

[4711]

you would probably need a few refresher classes. You really don't need the dance class, but the 'exercise' warmups.
It always fascinated me how you can do nothing more but hold on to the bars, bend your knees a little and be drenched in sweat 15 minutes later.

but you have to have perfect form and the required tension to get that effect.

When I was 19 I thought I'd try ballet again....it is amazing how even a once a week class can improve flexibility (but at that point in my life I was not feeling it, plus the teacher wanted me to get point shoes...and man did they ever make my feet hurt)

But the secret is t keep everything tucked and tightened: stomach in, boobs up and out, shoulders back, but tight....stand tall and proud, like the imaginary string on the top of your head is pulling you up. Which is BTW also something I use often when I am working on a balance thing. like standing on one leg.

[amy1984]

Yoga.

Or Barre class (offered at my yoga studio but it's a pre-packaged group exercise class like Zumba to the best of my knowledge so you could probably find it in most cities).

Neither of these will turn you into a ballerina, but they should encourage lean muscle and good posture

[Gabby on Ice]

I'm thinking of taking ballet to help my skating. You could also try Pilates; that will probably give you good posture.

[Janie]

I'm with you on that Sampaguita! Ballet dancers, or skaters who've learnt ballet have such grace. But I have neither the time nor money to spend on ballet...

[sampaguita]

Thanks for your replies everyone! I inquired at two ballet studios nearby -- and I really can't afford it. So I think I'm going back to dumbbells for now. I'll also look for Pilates classes, maybe those are cheaper.

But the secret is t keep everything tucked and tightened: stomach in, boobs up and out, shoulders back, but tight....stand tall and proud, like the imaginary string on the top of your head is pulling you up. Which is BTW also something I use often when I am working on a balance thing. like standing on one leg.

A skating friend who also does ballet taught me this -- but it's so hard! I couldn't maintain that position, and I find that I tend to revert back to my old posture (which isn't bad by normal standards, but is terrible for skating and dance!). My friend taught me "tummy over pelvis, shoulders down and chest out, with an imaginary string pulling you up). Using my core to put my tummy over my pelvis wasn't too difficult (although I do have to consciously do it still), but the upper body part is really hard. I was wondering what drills dancers do to make this posture easier to maintain, and if I can do those at home...

[Skittl1321]

I was wondering what drills dancers do to make this posture easier to maintain, and if I can do those at home...

They take class, and they hold it.  If they slip and go to a more normal posture, their teacher will say something and they position themselves back there.  So if you spend 90 minutes (minimum, some ballet dancers take more than one class a day) a day making sure to hold this posture, you'll be essentially doing the same thing.  Make sure to move in a variety of ways, jumping, turning, doing leg exercises, all while maintaining the posture. Repeat daily for 5-10 years.  I have never learned a 'drill' for it.  It is just about doing it.

In my experience, Pilates isn't cheaper- but it is much easier to do at home once you learn what to be doing.

[Landing~Lutzes]

I did ballet from age 4 until age 16, my last two years being at a professional company in the corps. So I thought I would give my "insight" on this topic.

Ballerina Arms / Legs: The lean muscle developed in ballet is a result of a specific type of training that simultaneously combines strength training with stretching. Ballet training, when done correctly, builds lean, elongated muscles as opposed to bulky muscle; for example: we are taught to never "grip" with our quad muscles when doing a "developé", we are taught to "lift and lengthen." The whole idea is to stretch while strengthening. Many ballet dancers do pilates and/or yoga on the side (at my studio, pilates was required) as these two things promote the same kind of lean muscle building concept. You could try beginner pilates / yoga classes. If this is not doable, try doing strength training in your arms / legs (pushups, squats, small weughts, etc) and follow up with cardio and stretching.

Grace / Elegance: The gracefulness of a ballerina comes from years and years of training and is not easily attained. A ballet dancer is constantly working on her flow, unity, and overall performance. I think that gracefulness is no more a physical thing than a mental thing that is a result of passion, emotion, and being comfortable with yourself. You say you remember positions from ballet? Try this: stand in front of a mirror and practice moving your arms through each position...low fifth, to first, to high fifth, to second, back to low first. It may seem silly, but this is what I would do at home. Lift your arms from your back and keep your shoulders down. Play with you fingertips, make them soft and lengthened. Then, take this to the ice- do forward bubbles and practice flowing to each position with each bubble. This will help unify your grace. I think that gracefulness in the arms is what will be easiest (but not easy!) to improve, as for full body grace for, say, in a program, I think that comes from tons of practice in the program, becoming comfortable with that. I consider myself graceful, but when working on my new program, all grace and elegance flies out the window! But it comes back the more I work on it, perform it, ect. I think you will find that by improving your posture and arm movements, you will feel and appear more graceful and elegant.

(Cont. in next reply)

[Landing~Lutzes]

Posture: A ballerina's posture is developed, again, over years of training. It actually becomes a habit! If you go to a ballet studio, you will see that the older dancers hold themselves like a ballerina outside of the studio too. As you develop good posture, it becomes a habit and will translate off the dance floor / ice to how you walk in the streets, sit in chairs, etc. Here is the basic ballet posture: Tailbone down, stomach pulled up, shoulders down, chest up, lengthen neck, head lifted. To improve your posture, work on building core muscles...this includes back muscles! This will instantly improve your posture to some degree. Practice standing in the mirror and holding a ballerinas posture, and when sitting down in a chair. A good time to work on posture is when you are sitting, make note to not slouch and hold the ballerina posture through, say, a lunch with a friend or right now at the computer ;-)

Hope this helps some, let me know if I can be of anymore help!

[sampaguita]

Landing Lutzes, thank you for that detailed advice! Holding the ballerina posture is especially hard for me when (a) sitting down [I slouch by default ] and (b) when I have  a full stomach [I keep wondering how to keep that big tummy over my pelvis, lol!]. I'll definitely heed your advice!

I know that I can never have a ballerina's grace unless I really study ballet, but at least I hope to get the strength and posture.

SKITTL: Sorry I forgot to reply to your post! Seems like all I have to do is really to hold that posture for as long as I can, just as Landing Lutzes said -- which is a good thing for me, since I can do that without spending anything, lol! Thanks again!

[Robin]

 There is no substitute for going to class, especially if you're a beginner. If you're just starting out, you really do need feedback on your all your body positions and movement because it's so easy to develop incorrect habits. I've studied ballet from the time I was 5. I'm 46 now and I still take class, generally once or twice a week. But look at it this way: ballet classes aren't as expensive as skating. For example, I go to the Boston Ballet School; you can take 10 open-adult classes at various levels for $140. Many ballet schools all over the country have similar arrangements. Many schools offer beginner adult classes as well.

[Skittl1321]

SKITTL: Sorry I forgot to reply to your post! Seems like all I have to do is really to hold that posture for as long as I can, just as Landing Lutzes said -- which is a good thing for me, since I can do that without spending anything, lol! Thanks again!

That's basically what I said in my post too- there is no drill, they get great posture by holding it.

Just like in skating it is easy to teach yourself bad habits. But repetition is the key to a ballet dancers success, so if you focus on posture, it should improve. Keep in mind ballet dancers work for years and years on this, so there is no instant success.

[Query]

I don't know if this will help you, but if you search for

  ballet workout

at amazon.com, you will see lots of workout videos incorporating ballet training. The ones from the New York City Ballet may be so common that you can probably rent them from a video store or on-line services like Netflix.

(BTW, I have one of these. I couldn't begin to do the exercises. Ran into the same thing when I tried to imitate the exercise program of an elite kayaker. Exercise programs created by elite athletes would just about kill normal people.)

for example: we are taught to never "grip" with our quad muscles when doing a "developé", we are taught to "lift and lengthen."[/url]

A ballet teacher told students in her university injury prevention class to move without using external muscles (those near the skin, which I think are mostly used to prevent specific joints from moving, by creating internal friction between the layers beneath them). She said this for injury prevention and to maximize flexibility, but it sounds like what you are describing, if I assume you are actually using the "internal" quad layers that are not against the skin.

Is that probably right?

(She said people generally can't sense the use of internal muscles, unless they get them sore.)

Is the idea of not using the muscles to make it look like you, as a ballerina, are moving without effort?

The exact opposite of what body builders do.

(Of course most guys want to look strong, and to show off their strength.)

I hope you gals eat enough to be healthy, rather than pushing to be slim as skeletons.)

[sampaguita]

I don't know if this will help you, but if you search for

  ballet workout

at amazon.com, you will see lots of workout videos incorporating ballet training. The ones from the New York City Ballet may be so common that you can probably rent them from a video store or on-line services like Netflix.

(BTW, I have one of these. I couldn't begin to do the exercises. Ran into the same thing when I tried to imitate the exercise program of an elite kayaker. Exercise programs created by elite athletes would just about kill normal people.)

for example: we are taught to never "grip" with our quad muscles when doing a "developé", we are taught to "lift and lengthen."[/url]

A ballet teacher told students in her university injury prevention class to move without using external muscles (those near the skin, which I think are mostly used to prevent specific joints from moving, by creating internal friction between the layers beneath them). She said this for injury prevention and to maximize flexibility, but it sounds like what you are describing, if I assume you are actually using the "internal" quad layers that are not against the skin.

Is that probably right?

(She said people generally can't sense the use of internal muscles, unless they get them sore.)

Is the idea of not using the muscles to make it look like you, as a ballerina, are moving without effort?

The exact opposite of what body builders do.

(Of course most guys want to look strong, and to show off their strength.)

I hope you gals eat enough to be healthy, rather than pushing to be slim as skeletons.)

Interesting, Query. So how does one engage the internal fibers instead of the ones closer to the skin? For me, squats and plies are very similar.

[Query]

Interesting, Query. So how does one engage the internal fibers instead of the ones closer to the skin? For me, squats and plies are very similar.

I have no idea. I'm not a ballet dancer - and even if I was, the standards for men may be different. E.G., I think it's OK for them to show strength. Everyone else in the class was a female dance major at that University.

I tried a little bit, by moving body parts while relaxing the external muscles. It's hard to know if I succeed, since I might actually be using other muscle groups. Maybe I could exercise until my internal muscles were sore, at which their contraction becomes detectable [so said that dance teacher], but I don't feel like doing that.

Perhaps really good performance dancers (and skaters?) develop a greatly enhanced body awareness, and they somehow know what muscles are being used?

[Landing~Lutzes]

I have no idea. I'm not a ballet dancer - and even if I was, the standards for men may be different. E.G., I think it's OK for them to show strength. Everyone else in the class was a female dance major at that University.

I tried a little bit, by moving body parts while relaxing the external muscles. It's hard to know if I succeed, since I might actually be using other muscle groups. Maybe I could exercise until my internal muscles were sore, at which their contraction becomes detectable [so said that dance teacher], but I don't feel like doing that.

Perhaps really good performance dancers (and skaters?) develop a greatly enhanced body awareness, and they somehow know what muscles are being used?

I think that this ability to utilize the muscles in this way is a matter of training. I think that's what a lot of dance technique is, is training starting at a young age when the body is most versatile.