I feel so low-level. :(

[sampaguita]

Okay, so I know I'm a low-level skater. I have no illusions of being even a mid-level one.

But it just hit me that I've been studying skating for a little more than 2 years. However, I can't do a decent half-flip, only an occasional decent waltz. I can't spin. The LFO 3-turn is the only one I can do relatively well, with the RFI still in progress and the RFO and the LFI not even worth posting. I don't have decent forward inside mohawks on BOTH my strong and weak sides. And I'm still struggling with edges and crossovers, both backward and forward.

Basically, these are all ISI Delta-level stuff (if you don't count the jumps, spins, pivots and arabesques), which I suppose many skaters could master in a year by skating once a week...and I've been in this sport for more than 2 years...how can I not have at least my 3-turns and mohawks?   Lack of talent? Lack of strength? Or is this the way it should be when you start skating as an adult?

[adragast]

I am a complete beginner so I can't help you with any technical stuff (how to improve this or that) but I think we need to know more about you to understand your progression speed. You say you have been in this sport for 2 years, but how active have you been these two years? Several sessions every week? Have you taken classes? Do you have a coach? If you have a coach, does he agree your progression is slow? Maybe he is just not pushing you because he doesn't know your feeling so he lets you learn slowly.

Then, it is also important to know how you are (or how old you were when you started). If you were 5 when you started, then yes, I think you could expect to do more after 2 years. If you were 20, I suppose it is fine, If you were 60, I would say it is impressive.

Also, I don't think any skater master these elements in one year. Some may be able to do them fine but mastering something takes a long time.

Finally, don't be too harsh on you. Your aim is to skate for the sake of it, right? Then, just do your best and you will improve (look back at how you were doing 1 year and a half ago).

Good luck!

[FigureSpins]

If it makes you feel better, there are younger skaters who have skated for two years and struggle with the same dilemma of not progressing.

The only way to progress is to practice a lot and take lessons. Skating 2 hrs or less each week is fine if you're maintaining skills.  However, the more time you can put in on-ice, the more you will progress.  Off-ice can complement on-ice, but it can't replace it.   Watching videos and reading Internet sites is not a replacement for good coaching.  Having someone who can critique your efforts consistently and in real time, is vital. 

Also, you are obsessed with crossovers.  While I constantly review edges and crossovers with skaters, it doesn't mean that everything else has to be put on hold.  Sometimes, working on higher level elements helps strengthen troublesome lower skills at the same time.

You're a very timid and careful skater, which will also hold back progress.  Sometimes, you gotta go for the dangerous and get outside your comfort zone to make progress.  You can learn by crawling or by leaping.  I prefer determined leaps, but you're happy with creeping along and trying to perfect crossovers.  To each his own.

[AgnesNitt]

Okay, so I know I'm a low-level skater. I have no illusions of being even a mid-level one.

Be glad you're not like me. I'm a low level skater *yet again* after my second injury.

You know, you don't have to buy into the progression of the Ice Skating Test Industrial Process. Do the stuff you like for a while. Work on some new skating skills.Try some easy figures. Work on your posture .

And sad to say, I know several adults who have skills they just can never develop. I met a woman who had been skating for a decade and still had no inside 3. Spins. F/BO3, all the mohawks, spirals, some jumps, even a spread eagle. No inside 3. She managed to do cute programs without them.

[sarahspins]

My daughter has been skating for a year and a half and she only just passed USFSA's Basic 4 (on her third try).  Everyone progresses at their own pace... it's not a race.

I agree with FigureSpins though - it seems like you spend a great deal of time working trying to master some skills at a level that just isn't required - that practice time could be spent working on other things and trying more new elements - the speed and confidence with some skills like crossovers will just come naturally with time and there's no amount of focused "practice" that can really replicate that natural progression.  Stepping outside of your comfort zone is definitely required to make progress, as is not judging yourself to a standard that's not appropriate for your overall level.

[Skittl1321]

You're a very timid and careful skater, which will also hold back progress.  Sometimes, you gotta go for the dangerous and get outside your comfort zone to make progress. 

This is very true.  I will never be a good jumper because I won't let myself fall. 


I also agree that while it is important not to skip the basics to move on to the 'fun stuff', there is a point where you have to realize that they will never be perfect, and continue to practice them while working on other things.  Lack of perfect crossovers can't prevent you from moving on.

[jjane45]

You have achieved nice progresses with such limited resources. Be proud of yourself!

[ONskater74]

Skate for fun, and skate for YOU. To hell with the rest.

[Cush]

Do not beat yourself up.  We each go at our own pace and we just need to enjoy it as we go.
I also felt a bit discouraged this week.  After getting to Basic 8 techniques and starting to practise prebronze moves I was taken back down to reworking basic 4&5 stuff by a new coach.  But feedback from folks here made me realize it is completely normal.

[VAsk8r]

After a little more than two years of skating, I was only just starting to work on waltz jumps. It took me months of group lessons and practice to get my 3-turns. When I took my pre-bronze free skate, I had been working on my one-foot spin for over six months and it still took two tries to eek out the required three rotations.

You passed your PB FS, right? So you CAN spin! With adults, spins take a LOT of practice.

I've taken bronze moves twice and have yet to pass. My sit spins come and go, and I don't think a good day now is really much better than a good day three years ago. Same with forward scratch. It took a year to get 3 rotations on a backspin.

It took me weeks of intense work to land my loop, over a year to begin consistently landing my flip, and then I got my lutz in 2-3 weeks of consistent practice. And then flips became easy. And suddenly everyone was saying, "Wow, you're a JUMPER!"

(Almost) everything comes in time. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. You're doing great.

[amy1984]

These things come at different rates for different people.  However, if you're feeling that you're in a rut or stuck on something, why not focus on learning a new skill?  As others have said, things don't have to be perfect to move on.  In fact, learning other skills will sharpen ones you've already learned.  Don't get stuck trying to perfect one set of skills... That may be why you're feeling a little stuck.

[sampaguita]

Thanks everyone! I'm aware of my obsession with crossovers, and can say that my crossovers are above what other skaters of my level have. But I think what really irks me is how I don't have my 3-turns and my mohawks -- and those things I am NOT obsessed about (or maybe I should, so they'd get better like my crossovers, lol!). And since I don't have a good mohawk, I can't get a good half-flip, and so on...

You're a very timid and careful skater, which will also hold back progress.  Sometimes, you gotta go for the dangerous and get outside your comfort zone to make progress.

Like Skittl, I'm afraid of injuring myself due to falls, so I guess I'll never really be a good jumper. I find that having more secure edges makes jumps easier (as I have discovered from the few times I get good waltz jumps), but  I see other skaters in my rink just go out there and jump, even if they take-off on flats. I still wonder where they get that confidence -- maybe from youth!

After a little more than two years of skating, I was only just starting to work on waltz jumps. It took me months of group lessons and practice to get my 3-turns. When I took my pre-bronze free skate, I had been working on my one-foot spin for over six months and it still took two tries to eek out the required three rotations.

You passed your PB FS, right? So you CAN spin! With adults, spins take a LOT of practice.

I've taken bronze moves twice and have yet to pass. My sit spins come and go, and I don't think a good day now is really much better than a good day three years ago. Same with forward scratch. It took a year to get 3 rotations on a backspin.

It took me weeks of intense work to land my loop, over a year to begin consistently landing my flip, and then I got my lutz in 2-3 weeks of consistent practice. And then flips became easy. And suddenly everyone was saying, "Wow, you're a JUMPER!"

(Almost) everything comes in time. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. You're doing great.

This is inspiring, VASk8r, especially for the spins. Thank you for sharing this!

[techskater]

You need to step out of your comfort zone. Sometimes that falling, sometimes it's just pushing through something you find difficult at a more "breakneck" speed.  Until you can turn off your brain and just go and push out of your comfort zone, it will be slower than you wish progress.  Good luck. 

[irenar5]

I completely agree with what a lot of other posters said:

Don't get stuck on "perfecting" the skill!  I had a coach when I first started that would work with me on a single three turn the entire lesson.  A SINGLE THREE TURN!  (This was for PB waltz eight).  Guess what?  She is not my coach any more and the one I have now, knows the exact moment to say :"Ok, moving on to..." 
You always use basics in everything, so they so get better with time.   It takes 10,000 hours of doing something to become an expert.  Accept the fact that you do not need to be an expert, do not compare your skills to that of an elite skater! 

Amount of practice time makes a huge difference, though.  There are those naturals that have amazing muscle memory and progress quickly, but for 99% of people it is only time on the ice that makes it better.  Skate spinners, ballet, roller blading,strength training, etc do not replace actual time on the ice. 

Learning to skate is a process and going through the process itself is a great thing- I myself enjoy it tremendously!  Sure, as any next person, I like the fact that I can spin, but the truth is, that spin can ALWAYS be better.  Do not be so focused on the end result,  the goal itself changes all the time.  You finally are able to spin, but then comes the "I need to center it", you get the centering (sort of) and then it is on to the new goal of "my leg needs to be higher" or "I need to stop having lifeless hands" or "it needs to be faster", etc.   The process never ends.  Allow yourself to enjoy the process!

You have made a good amount of progress for someone who skates an hour a week! Look back at some old videos, or remember back to when you could not do a cross over or glide on one foot without tipping to the inside!  Or planned to never jump at all!  All of what you can do now is what you learned and it is incredible!

Finally, there will be times of stasis, when new skills are just not coming as easily or you are not having a breakthrough or something stops working when you thought you had it down pat.  As my coach puts it "This is skating!". 

[ChristyRN]

Ten plus years in, I can't spin.  I managed to pass PB FS, but as a rule, I can't spin.  I have many other skills, so I don't worry too much about one thing.  It just means I'll have to try harder.  That is, try harder when we get my lungs straightened out and I can skate more than 30 seconds in a row.  And, at that point, I'll have to go backwards to eventually go forwards again.

[nicklaszlo]

When I took my pre-bronze free skate, I had been working on my one-foot spin for over six months and it still took two tries to eek out the required three rotations.

Only six months sounds pretty good to me.  Spins take so long to learn.

[irenar5]

Only six months sounds pretty good to me.  Spins take so long to learn.

Agreed.  My forward scratch took a year with obsessive practicing 3-4 times a week... 

[davincisop]

Sam, watch your videos. You've shown immense progress. I know adults that have been skating longer than you who are too afraid to even attempt crossovers. And your waltz jump will improve with time. I've been working on mine on and off over 10 years and it wasn't until late last year that I finally got it big. Then I moved away to a new rink with VERY different ice and am working to get that height and distance back. Keep at it. We all hit highs and lows in our skating.

Heck, I wasn't on the ice much when I moved down here so just recently I've been going 3x a week and am working to get everything back. Lots left me.

[Skittl1321]

And since I don't have a good mohawk, I can't get a good half-flip, and so on...

I remember taking a class in special education, and one of the videos we watched was "Try another way" - it was a really inspirational video about working with youths with challenges.

If you don't have a mohawk- can you do a 3-turn entry?  If you can't do a 3-turn entry, can you skip half-flip and try half-lutz?  That can just use a back outside edge glide! No turn needed!!

If something isn't working, try another way!  (This was one of my breakthroughs for sit spins.  I just couldn't get it with a wind up, but from a 3-turn entry, the 'snap' came together for me and I was able to sustain some speed.)

[threenorns]

i'm a crap skater - you're worried about edges and crossovers and flips and whatnot. 

i'm still trying to figure out how you stop if there are no walls or trees handy (i just sit down).

anyway, lessons i learned from my 6yr old:

"fall down 9 times - get up 10"

and

"if you wanna do it, you gotta do it".



being guilty of this so many times myself, it seems pretty obvious to me that you're trying to skate with your brain, not your body.  brains are no good on the ice - you spend so much time worrying about having the exact angle of attack and the precisely correct entry that you're not allowing any neuromuscular training to happen.

think about driving a car:

the first time you got behind the wheel, you were all about "okay... check the rear view mirror... check the side mirrors... what's my speed?.... is that lady going to cross the road? ... crap - i'm crossing the centre line again...." and so on.

after a few months or years, you're thinking "milk.... eggs.... bread.... oh, nice dog!.... hunh - when did they put that stop sign in? [even as your car is already coming to a perfect stop]"

that's because your body does the driving - it has been programmed.   this is how ppl can literally drive home on autopilot and have no memory of the trip whatsoever.


it's the same thing in martial arts - this is why they do the same movements over and over and over again:  when it comes down to a real fight or competition, your body will automatically throw up the appropriate defense because if you're looking at your opponent thinking "ah - that's a forward snap kick. the appropriate response is OUCH!!!!!"  rather than just doing it.



try benching your brain and just let your body do what needs to be done.


btw:  about fear of falling and injury - after 30yrs of not skating, i went on the ice again bec i didn't feel right standing on the sidelines while telling my daughter to get out there.  she is much more relaxed and confident when i'm on the ice, even if i'm just standing there. 

so i was on the ice, toddling around trying to remember how i used to do this when i was a kid and someone said "i think your daughter wants you".  i looked back over my shoulder and guess what happened?

from my perspective, it felt like the rink rotated up and sucker-punched me on the back of the head.  i  was knocked out cold (i had literally landed on the back of my skull).  i was carried off the ice and taken to the change room where i threw up everywhere.  the ambulance came and turned out i had a fractured skull.

well, you know what?  it's no biggie.  nauseous for about a week, a headache that lasted nearly 3 months, but i didn't die and i'm back out there (with a helmet!).

[Doubletoe]

People can say what they want about your obsession with crossovers, but figure skaters are obsessive by nature.  We have to be!  I think it's just time to add mohawks and 3-turns to your list of obsessions.  As you pointed out, they are the basis of the jumps, so you'll be unlocking several doors at once by working on them.

[nataxa]

I know how you are feeling. I so want to be a butterfly on the ice but I still feel like I'm an elephant
I'm skating 3 years already and still do not feel confident with 3-turns (especially inside ones) and my mohawks are very unstable. And I cannot spin. And I'm struggling with loop jump 4th month already and still cannot figure out how to do it.

Try to add other movements to mohawks and 3-turns. Do not do them alone. Use them as links between other movements. Sometimes it's helpful to return to the beginning and try to reproduce mohawks and 3-turns as you were learning them.

What is more important - you shouldn't lose faith in yourself!!! You are doing so great job!

[kiwiskater]

After a little more than two years of skating, I was only just starting to work on waltz jumps. It took me months of group lessons and practice to get my 3-turns. When I took my pre-bronze free skate, I had been working on my one-foot spin for over six months and it still took two tries to eek out the required three rotations.

You passed your PB FS, right? So you CAN spin! With adults, spins take a LOT of practice.

So true! It took me a year to learn FO 3 turns from the time I was introduced to them & a little less for FI. Right now 1 foot spins are driving me up the wall because they are taking ages but I think I had a breakthrough last week, now my entry is stuffed but at least I can hold the spin position! It'll come together sometime this year I'm sure (I hope!!!)...

You need to step out of your comfort zone. Sometimes that falling, sometimes it's just pushing through something you find difficult at a more "breakneck" speed.  Until you can turn off your brain and just go and push out of your comfort zone, it will be slower than you wish progress.  Good luck. 

There is a trade off between throwing yourself into something & thinking about it, I'm a big thinker & Kiwiskater#2 is the "do'er", I'm told somewhere between us is a good skater

think about driving a car:

the first time you got behind the wheel, you were all about "okay... check the rear view mirror... check the side mirrors... what's my speed?.... is that lady going to cross the road? ... crap - i'm crossing the centre line again...." and so on.

after a few months or years, you're thinking "milk.... eggs.... bread.... oh, nice dog!.... hunh - when did they put that stop sign in? [even as your car is already coming to a perfect stop]"

that's because your body does the driving - it has been programmed.   this is how ppl can literally drive home on autopilot and have no memory of the trip whatsoever.

LOL that is such a great description, it happens one day without you realising! I did find driving on the WRONG side of the road when I visited CA last year that you are a bit back to basics, so paranoid about making sure I was on the right side of the road

[Icicle]

Sampaguita, you have made great progress in skating. Three years - that's not very long. And speaking of being timid, once your technique improves, you won;'t be that scared of jumping. I can do all single jumps, but they are small. I finally understood that to do a good jump, you need to feel comfortable on the entrance edge. So I'm really focusing on the entrances to the jumps now, whether those are three turns or mohawks. It works: my jumps are getting bigger. So as you perfect your crossovers, don't think of it as a waste of time. No matter what you do on the ice, it helps because it builds your confidence.

[sampaguita]

Thank you everyone! It seems members in this forum have different learning styles, and I am happy to hear pieces of advice from each "school". Thanks for sharing your stories too -- I think I will have to recalibrate my timetable for learning the basic stuff, and give myself a LOT of time to learn spins! (didn't know they were THAT difficult for adults -- I see kids doing them at my rink like it was so easy!)

think about driving a car:

the first time you got behind the wheel, you were all about "okay... check the rear view mirror... check the side mirrors... what's my speed?.... is that lady going to cross the road? ... crap - i'm crossing the centre line again...." and so on.

after a few months or years, you're thinking "milk.... eggs.... bread.... oh, nice dog!.... hunh - when did they put that stop sign in? [even as your car is already coming to a perfect stop]"

haha, this made me laugh! I remember when I was a beginning driver -- my body would really hurt after one trip because my shoulders were so tense! Now I still check the mirrors regularly, but it has been a lot easier. I don't really remember when it became natural for me. I hope for skating it will eventually be the same!