Help choosing the right blade and blade size

[Sunnyside_Skater]

I'm an adult, just returning to the ice after not skating for 10 years and am waiting for my new SP Teri's to arrive. I can hardly wait! I need to pick out a blade, and am hoping for some good advice. Here's the back story:

I peaked at about the Juvenile level about 20 years ago. At that time I skated in Super Teri's with a 10" Phantom blade. I still have these skates: they are like an old comfortable pair of jeans, and just fine for doing laps around the rink with my kids. About 12 years ago I bought a pair of Risport Super Diamants with a 9 3/4" Vision blade. I hardly wore them, never felt safe in them (I think the grind was too shallow). I wore them on the ice maybe 5 hours total. Shortly after, I got pregnant with my first child. Fast-forward 10 years, I'm a mom of 4 kids and my shoe size has grown a 1/2 size. I just returned to the ice last month.  I had the Risports sharpened with a deeper grind and that helped tremendously. But the boots are too tight - I could get them stretched and punched out, but they just don't feel like a good match for me. So I decided to order some new SP Teri's. This is where I need your help! I have several options:

1. Put my old 10" Phantoms on the new boots. Pro: save $$$, limits the variables (by using an old blade I'm familiar with). Cons: the life of these blades is limited (maybe 4-5 sharpenings left in them), takes my favorite old back-up skates out of commission

2. Put the 9 3/4" Vision blades on the new boots. Pro: these blades are MINT condition. Con: I can't tell if the reason I didn't like the Risports is because of the boots or the blades. The Vision feels sooo different than the Phantom. What if I still don't like the feel of the Vision on the new boots?

3. Invest in new Phantoms. Pro: would be the newer version of what worked for me 20 years ago. Con: the money factor. Did I mention we have 4 kids who like to eat? 

4. Use the 9 3/4" Visions for now and if I don't like them, buy some new Phantoms later on. Question: if you put a 9 3/4" Phantom where a 9 3/4" Vision used to be can you use the same holes? Or do they have to be plugged, etc?

Am I over thinking this?

Lastly, does a 1/4" really make that much of a difference? ie, the skate shop guy said either a 10" or 9 3/4" blade would work for SP Teri size 8. If none of the above options were on the table, which length (not model) would you go with?

Things have changed soooo much since I drifted away from skating (I grew up with early morning patch sessions and had never even heard of heat molding!). I'm just thrilled to discover this forum! Thanks for letting me ramble on and thanks in advance for any insight you can provide!

[FigureSpins]

Welcome to skatingforums!

Have the current boots stretched and keep them intact as backups.

Buy the new boots first and have the soles measured before you buy blades.  Sometimes the boot length varies, especially when you're comparing new to old models.  A 1/4" really doesn't make a difference unless you tend to use the back of the blades.  It takes some time to get used to a shorter blade tail, but it is do-able.  Given a choice, I'd take the shorter length since my foot isn't going to grow.

When you know the exact size range, get another pair of Phantoms.  Less change, the better.
To keep the cost down, look into buying used blades or a Phantom clone that less pricey.
Just make sure they have a lot of sharpenings left if you buy used and they've been properly maintained.

I had an expert fitter lecture about how you should never reuse the holes, even if its the same brand, model and size because the holes are made by eye in the factory.  He later reused holes when replacing my blades, thereby torquing the blades and making it painfully difficult to skate on.  Take my advice: get the holes plugged and a fresh mounting done.

[taka]

Hi, welcome!

I'd measure your new boots when they arrive and decide then. 0-1/4 inch shorter that the sole seems to be a common length guideline for blade size.

If your old phantoms don't have much sharpening life left, is it possible that these may have had the radius flattened a bit over the many sharpenings they've presumably had? It may be that ANY blade (including new Phantoms!) compared to your old, well worn Phantoms is going take a bit of getting used to. Have there been any changes to phantom blades and their features over the last 20 years? I don't know much about them, sorry.

Personally, if the Vision blades are definitely the right size, I'd give them a try! You will need to get used to (and break in) new boots anyway as they will definitely be a bit different compared to 20 years ago. I'd rather do it all in one go...

[Purple Sparkly]

I would go with a shorter blade over a longer blade.  Holes for the blades should be plugged for a different pair of blades.

I just switched from a pair of 12 year old Phantoms to the Ultima Supreme.  A Phantom brand new is about $450.  The Supreme is $350 and is similar to a Gold Seal (I actually only paid $200 for mine).  My jumps instantly improved.  I have never been accused of having small jumps, but now they are even bigger.  Spinning is a bit of a challenge, but the change was still worth it.  I did not have any problems adjusting with general skating and I actually think it is smoother.  That said, I would never go back to a Phantom.  My coach even recommended staying with what I had even though she does not like the Phantom herself.  I was not convinced that the Phantom was the best blade for me.  I am so glad I switched.

Also, good luck with your SP Teri's... They don't make them like they did 20 years ago.  That brand, in particular, is struggling immensely with product quality and customer service right now.

(Reference: I am an Adult Gold skater.  I have qualified for Championship Gold at Adult Nationals every year for the last five years.)

[Sunnyside_Skater]

This is very, very helpful. Thank you so much everybody!

I'm wondering if you can say more about the Phantom clone or other blades that might work. (I'm so out of the loop!). I went with the Vision last time because I thought it would be similar, but like I said it's hard to tell if it's the Risport boot or Vision blade I didn't like. And the comment about my current Phantoms having a too flat radius - there's probably something to that.  So, with your feedback so far, I'm deciding to knock that possibility out of the running.

So let's take a step back here: what blade would you recommend for me? At 38 years old, strong edges, good spins and with a goal to land an axel again and work on doubles. Keep in mind that I probably never needed a Phantom in the first place, but it's what I learned to on and am familiar with. What's a good blade for me now?

Thank you so so much!

[AgnesNitt]

Blade size is easy. What's hard is rocker measurement 7' vs 8'. i never knew how much a 7' rocker would improve my skating until on a whim I tried it. And then there's other people who feel the exact opposite.

Skating Mysteries, blade, toepick, rocker, boot, ice. It just never ends.

[Sunnyside_Skater]

I guess I'm asking the $64,000 question, huh?

[FigureSpins]

I don't know what clones match the Phantom, but others have mentioned them in the past, so I know they exist.  (My kids use Coronation Aces and I use Gold Seals)

If you search for skatingforums blade clones, you'll find some posts from our members about blade clones.  Using Yahoo! or Google also checks our searchable archives for pre-2010 topics. 

Just a friendly warning: Kinzie's Closet descriptions don't always jive with the manufacturers statements about what blades are clones of other blades.  Make sure to double-check.

The manufacturers that have cloned various blades are Ultima, Paramount, Riedell Eclipse and ISE.

[Purple Sparkly]

You will probably have an adjustment with spins even if you go to a brand new Phantom because of the change in rocker after so many years.

Here is a question for you:  How well do you use your rocker in jumps and turns?  I found that the effort I was putting into actually using my blade wasn't giving me the results I wanted on the Phantoms simply because there isn't enough rocker to make it work.  By switching to a blade with more curve, I am able to get much more lift on jumps.  The Supreme also has a slightly higher stanchion and a dovetailed edge, so I feel that my edges are more secure and deeper.

After trying the Supreme, I am a fan of Ultima.  My friend has an Ultima Freestyle that she likes and she used to skate on a Phantom.

Whether or not you needed the Phantom depends on how you use your blade.  I probably didn't really need it when I got it, either.  I went from a Professional to a Phantom and I noticed absolutely zero difference when skating, spinning, or jumping.

Do you have a coach you can work with about what options are available for you now?  Everyone is different.  As AgnesNitt says, she likes the 7' over the 8', but I am finding I like the 8' better.  There are also other features of a blade to consider: taper vs. parallel vs. dovetail, toepick, weight, hardness, etc.

[icedancer]

I am really curious about the SP Teri boots you are getting - put me in the camp of having LOVED my Teri's 20 years ago, then bought a new pair - heat-molded, etc., in 2005 and although they don't hurt or anything I still don't like them - wish I could fit into my old pair - hmm - stretching them may be an option!

[sarahspins]

Ultima Freestyle is the Phantom clone, however it doesn't have any side honing.  I don't think any other blade makers have a clone of the Phantom other than Paramount, but they make it quite clear that's what it is, and they're not necessarily cheaper.

Any new blade will feel very different, it doesn't matter if you get new phantoms or something else - the spin rocker is gradually flattened with sharpening and that is where most of the difference in "feel" comes from with a pair of blades.

[Sunnyside_Skater]

Sarahspins and everybody who has talked about rockers: thank you! Honestly, I never knew about blade mechanics. Nada. Zip! It's super helpful to learn about these things! I might need to start a new thread about the pros/cons of 8' vs 7'!

I'm not yet connected with a coach or a club in Denver.  I'm thinking that as much as I'm excited to order new blades I might need to take my time - so many options!

Icedancer2, I can't wait to see about the SP Teri's either. I'm crossing my fingers that the last hasn't changed much and that they will feel somewhat familiar.

[Purple Sparkly]

Icedancer2, I can't wait to see about the SP Teri's either. I'm crossing my fingers that the last hasn't changed much and that they will feel somewhat familiar.

They changed the last around 2002.  The toe box is more rounded now and the arch is lower.  I think I liked the new toe box, but the lower arch gave me foot cramps after about five minutes because I have a higher arch.  I had to wear an insole with an arch support in my skates.

[icedancer]

They changed the last around 2002.  The toe box is more rounded now and the arch is lower.  I think I liked the new toe box, but the lower arch gave me foot cramps after about five minutes because I have a higher arch.  I had to wear an insole with an arch support in my skates.

Well, this certainly makes sense to me now and why the 2005 boot always felt too big to me (sure it is a larger size but of course your feet get kind of flatter as you age - or that is what they said to me!) - I have put in Superfeet insoles which help give me more arch support -

But I still have problems with them as they have always felt "clunky" with all of that padding - or it is just me, LOL

[Robin]

New blades that are the correct length for the boot is the way to go. Otherwise, you will not be properly balanced. And a quarter of an inch DOES make a difference. You will thank yourself later for it.

[Query]

There are "standard" positions for mounting the blades - e.g., so the front of your mounting plate is at the front of the boot. And there are standard lengths, based on the boot outsole dimensions. Problem is, that doesn't always make sense. Blades should match what works well for your anatomy, not some nominal standard, based on the particular brand's boots. (For that matter, maybe your post-pregnancy feet aren't any longer, just wider and taller.)

This isn't what most "experts" say, but actual experimental skating sure makes sense to me. If it feels like the toe pick is too easy to reach, you could try mounting the blade further forward. If it is too hard, mount it further back. (It goes without saying that your left-right offset may have changed with your new weight distribution - or maybe you want to alter the insole to fit your new feet.) (Then you may want the sharpener to shift the "sweet spot" where the rocker changes, so it is under the part of your feet, somewhere near the ball, where you like to turn and spin - if you've a good enough sharpener to do that.)

Then if you tend to roll off the back of your blades, the blades may be too short. If you find it hard to do back 3's, they may be too long. Etc. - you also need to figure out whether jump landings feel "right".

Since you have two pair of blades to play with - do. Decide which blade characteristics, and which length works best for you. Perhaps before you go and buy new ones.

But like I said, most "experts" don't believe in experimentation, so you can always ignore this advice.