Adult LTS

[isakswings]

I am taking a session of LTS. I have taken lessons before but it has been a couple of years. Anyway, there are 4 adults in my class(including me). I am the only one with skating experience. The first class, I was soooooooo bored! The instructor worked on different stuff with me once she realized I needed to work on different elements. The second class was better, but I am really thinking I do not want to take group lessons next session. Not sure what to do really. I can't afford private lessons... not with paying for dd's lessons and ice time, but I want to advance. I think LTS is a great thing for kids but for an adult... I don't know what direction to go.

For those who learned to skate as adults, how did you go about learning new elements? Oh and for clarification, I really don't think I will want to learn to jump. For starters, I am pushing 40 and well... not sure I want to try it. Spins however, I could handle(as long as I can figure out how to stop getting dizzy!)

Any suggestions or feedback?

[AgnesNitt]

I'm in a similar situation. I have skating experience but was off ice for a year due to injury, so I also take LTS (mainly so I can get some practice in mid-week as there's an LTS practice session just before class). There are 7 adults in my class. I'm the most advanced as I can do everything except pivots, mohawks, and inside 3's; There's one guy still on the boards. Fortunately, the group coach is by coincidence my private coach. In group exercises like xovers, I'm held to a higher standard, he can also point to me and tell me to 'go practice' something, and know that I'll do just that while he works his way around the other students.

So, while the stuff is not all that exciting I take the attitude that it gives me an opportunity to practice doing the basic skills better. I have weak spots,  so the time spend grinding away at them is good.  For example, on crossovers I work on extension, smoothness, power, underpush, etc while the others are still at the just learning stage.  

It might help if you expressed your needs to the group coach, if you haven't already. If you're like me and not every element is perfect, note that it gives you an opportunity to work on performance issues (flow, power, etc) in an environment where a coach can give you tips that would be beyond the capacity of real beginners.

Because I like to skate at least once mid-week (and hockey eats up most the mid-week night sessions) I'll probably take Adult Basic until they kick me out. If all the coach does is tell me to work on progressives when others are working on forward xovers, or cutbacks when others are working on back xovers, or power 3's when others are still learning threes, it's time well spent.

(PS  I flat tell coaches 'I don't jump and I don't spin.' Figures and dance is all I care about. I'm pushing 60.)

[techskater]

For those who learned to skate as adults, how did you go about learning new elements? Oh and for clarification, I really don't think I will want to learn to jump. For starters, I am pushing 40 and well... not sure I want to try it. Spins however, I could handle(as long as I can figure out how to stop getting dizzy!)

Any suggestions or feedback?

One of my friends started at 42 and is 50 now working on Axel, Novice MIF, and higher level spins.  It's very doable if you can get passed the first level of fear and it's fun!!!

[isakswings]

Well... I also have back problems that involve my 4th and 5th vertebre overlapping. I'm likely taking enough of a risk even being on the ice, but considering the doc once told me jogging was out, I don't think I should attempt jumping! Dd says it is very fun and she loves it! After seeing and hearing her hit hard after missing axels, I am terrified of what I would do to my back! In my dreams I am a very beautiful and graceful skater with amazing jumps and spins. LOL! In reality, I would like a couple of nice spins and decent skating skills to go with it. Ice dance might be fun to try and to be honest, I would consider testing moves down the road, but of coarse, that would require lessons and a private coach and that is not do-able right now. Dd's training comes first!

How cool that your friend is advancing like that. I admire that greatly! I like to watch the adults compete at competitions. I saw one guy skating last weekend and he looked to be older then I am(40's) and skated well! Kudos!

[isakswings]

I'm in a similar situation. I have skating experience but was off ice for a year due to injury, so I also take LTS (mainly so I can get some practice in mid-week as there's an LTS practice session just before class). There are 7 adults in my class. I'm the most advanced as I can do everything except pivots, mohawks, and inside 3's; There's one guy still on the boards. Fortunately, the group coach is by coincidence my private coach. In group exercises like xovers, I'm held to a higher standard, he can also point to me and tell me to 'go practice' something, and know that I'll do just that while he works his way around the other students.

So, while the stuff is not all that exciting I take the attitude that it gives me an opportunity to practice doing the basic skills better. I have weak spots,  so the time spend grinding away at them is good.  For example, on crossovers I work on extension, smoothness, power, underpush, etc while the others are still at the just learning stage.  

It might help if you expressed your needs to the group coach, if you haven't already. If you're like me and not every element is perfect, note that it gives you an opportunity to work on performance issues (flow, power, etc) in an environment where a coach can give you tips that would be beyond the capacity of real beginners.

Because I like to skate at least once mid-week (and hockey eats up most the mid-week night sessions) I'll probably take Adult Basic until they kick me out. If all the coach does is tell me to work on progressives when others are working on forward xovers, or cutbacks when others are working on back xovers, or power 3's when others are still learning threes, it's time well spent.

(PS  I flat tell coaches 'I don't jump and I don't spin.' Figures and dance is all I care about. I'm pushing 60.)

Hee Hee! I had dd taking LTS until last month! She passed Freeskate 6 and then skated pre-pre a few weeks later. I loved the ice time she got from taking LTS and she got to work on skills she needed to practice. If i could have her do it again, I would but she's passed all the levels and can land an axel, so yeah...time to move on. LOL!

[JimStanmore]

I returned to skating with Adult LTS last Fall.  (Just turned 54.  I first skated for two years when I was 17/18 in college.)  On the one hand, it was irritating because the other students were grasping the boards and afraid of breaking something and I wanted to remember how to skate and had bigger goals.  It also took time to get the instructor to realize my goals.  On the other hand, it worked out because I feel basic stroking and edges are important and was able to spend a lot of time on those.  The first six weeks ended with my having passed Adult 4, but I couldn't fit FS into my schedule.  

The instructor suggested I continue and work on my pre-Bronze test.  She would give me instructions on that and then work with the other students.  I started taking private lessons with her and a dance lesson with another adult student with her - two private lessons and a group lesson with her each week.  That went on for two more sessions.  Then my schedule (and money) changed for a short time and I stopped all of the lessons for a while.

I just started up again, but with FS 1-6 two weeks ago.  I was concerned with being surrounded with hoards of 3 and 4 foot tall girls, however, it has worked out because there is another adult in the class.  The instructor for our group works with an older girl for half an hour while we warm up and then works with us for half an hour.  The only challenge is that the other adult is at a very different level and I have to make efforts to not make her feel incompetent.  My edges may look good, but I can't spin to save my life

Group lessons mean 6 hours on the ice around an instructor and another 7 1/2 hours (5 sessions passes) of ice time.  13 1/2 hours of ice time and 2 1/2 hours of lessons for $135 is a good deal in my eyes.  My main problems are balancing feeling incompetent with intimidating adults with what skills I have (not sure/don't care what the double girls think,) and being taken seriously by the instructors and coaches.  We have 3 Olympic pair teams that train at our little rink and several promising singles kids - the bar is set pretty high.  I found that wearing my black Levy 511 skinny stretch jeans and red Nike stretch shirt, warming up with exercises like the elite athletes and being dedicated to practice time, especially the 6-9 AM slots not only helps my skating, but also my reputation.

I will probably take LTS through FS6 until they won't let me sign up for it.  I not only have competitive goals I also want to be a coach.  LTS is where most coaches start so, it is great experience for me to observe the techniques from the other side.

[isakswings]

I will probably take LTS through FS6 until they won't let me sign up for it.  I not only have competitive goals I also want to be a coach.  LTS is where most coaches start so, it is great experience for me to observe the techniques from the other side.

I think that is fantastic! If I had the money, I would take some lessons from my daughter's coach. However, at this point I would much rather shift any extra money that I have for skating, to my daughter. LTS here is very reasonable at 40.00 for 6 sessions with 6 passes for either a freeskate session or public. It is a good deal price wise, but I also want to learn. The second week was better then the 1st. The instructor recognized I was bored the 1st week. Everyone else was working on forward swizzles. I actually don't mind swizzles because they work my leg muscles but I DID get bored after I passed everyone else 2-3 times! I ended up doing them backwards out of boredom. LOL! Instructor started me on something else and noted that I looked bored(yup!). I've taken through adult 3 before...passed through 2 and can do some things in 3 and 4. Daughter's coach suggested I talk to the skating director. I may do that. This is certainly the most affordable way for me to skate, but if it isn't going to benefit me much, I won't sign back up. Good luck with your goals! You sound very dedicated.

[fsk8r]

Just wondering how private lesson costs compare to group lesson costs. I know at my rink a 15min private costs about the same as a group lesson but there's still ice time to factor in. But at the LTS level you can learn as much in a 15min private as you'll ever learn in a 30min group class, if not more and then the big thing is practice time to make progress.

Or alternatively have a look around the other rinks in your area to see if they actually run different levels of adult LTS. There's no point you spending time working on higher level stuff when the coach's attention is directed more towards the beginners stuck on the barrier. Although perhaps the coach will switch focus once some of the rest of the class begin catching you up (or at least getting to the point of having a try).

I know several adults who take a odd lesson a week whilst most of their money is devoted on the kids. I think most of them see that it's beneficial for the mum's sanity that she has her little bit of skating. But a lot of the mums are worried about falling so don't want to jump (who's going to drive the skater to the rink if the mum break a leg) so they tend to stick to moves and dance. But I skate in a country where adult social dance is a big thing. 

[Clarice]

isakswings, is there any reason why you have to be in the adult LTS class?  Could you be in the "kid" class at the appropriate level?  It sounds like that might be a better match to your skills and needs.  I didn't take LTS with the kids, but I've taken plenty of power and ballet classes with them, and it's worked out fine.

[Skittl1321]

I second "take with the kids".  I taught Adult LTS for a few years (mostly just did tots though) and the adults who stuck with skating were all the  ones who took LTS with kids.

I also hate the USFS adult LTS curriculum.  I feel it introduces elements in an order that doesn't make sense, and crams together elements in levels that they don't fit in (the problem with having half as many levels) AND if you have any inclination to move to freestyle (even if you don't want to jump too much) I also feel the adult curriculum leaves too many holes.

[techskater]

I also hate the USFS adult LTS curriculum.  I feel it introduces elements in an order that doesn't make sense, and crams together elements in levels that they don't fit in (the problem with having half as many levels) AND if you have any inclination to move to freestyle (even if you don't want to jump too much) I also feel the adult curriculum leaves too many holes.

Interesting that you say this because a lot of people feel the same way about the adult MIF test structure.   

[JimStanmore]

However, at this point I would much rather shift any extra money that I have for skating, to my daughter. LTS here is very reasonable at 40.00 for 6 sessions with 6 passes for either a freeskate session or public...
Daughter's coach suggested I talk to the skating director. I may do that. This is certainly the most affordable way for me to skate, but if it isn't going to benefit me much, I won't sign back up...

40.00 is an amazing price for all of that time.  I find it difficult to understand how the instructor has not adjusted for you.  I also realize, after this  thread, that the skating director at our rink has been interceding for a while on his own.  In fact, he was the one that told me what I would be doing this set of lessons.

But a lot of the mums are worried about falling so don't want to jump (who's going to drive the skater to the rink if the mum break a leg) so they tend to stick to moves and dance. But I skate in a country where adult social dance is a big thing.  

One of the moms at our rink used to take lessons, but she broke her wrist on the ice and had trouble driving her daughter around.  She is waiting until her daughter gets her license this year to skate again so it doesn't get repeated.

...is there any reason why you have to be in the adult LTS class?  Could you be in the "kid" class at the appropriate level?  It sounds like that might be a better match to your skills and needs.

I second "take with the kids"...
I also hate the USFS adult LTS curriculum.  I feel it introduces elements in an order that doesn't make sense, and crams together elements in levels that they don't fit in (the problem with having half as many levels) AND if you have any inclination to move to freestyle (even if you don't want to jump too much) I also feel the adult curriculum leaves too many holes.

Hearing that, I don't feel so bad anymore.  I decided to switch to the regular track a couple of weeks ago because the Adult track seemed to skip things and lump them together.  The Adult LTS goal is also stated as "designed to promote physical fitness, improve balance and coordination while learning proper skating techniques."   With my small amount of experience, I didn't trust that idea too much, but now I have an idea it is correct.  I plan to test in both paths.  I know it will get messy later, but it seems manageable through my initial goal: Bronze/Preliminary.  The regular track is forcing me to do things I would rather skip

[tazsk8s]

Interesting that you say this because a lot of people feel the same way about the adult MIF test structure.   

Add me to the group that feels that way about both Adult LTS and Adult MITF.  Not a fan of the arrangement of skills in either one.

[MadMac]

Add me to the group that feels that way about both Adult LTS and Adult MITF.  Not a fan of the arrangement of skills in either one.

I'm with you here. In fact, when I teach adult classes I always follow the (tweeked to my progressions) Basic 1-8 curriculum but include the extra steps from the adult curriculum. The skill progression makes so much more sense.

[isakswings]

Thanks everyone!

As for LTS costs versus 15 minute private lessons. it would be more costly for me to take 15 min private lessons due to the cost of ice time and lessson time. I would be paying 50.00 a month for lessons and then 20 more a month for ice time just during lessons. Both dd's primary coach and dd's new dance coach have the same rate and I like both coaches, so I would likely go with one of those coaches. The thing is, I keep thinking even if I found a way to pay for both private lessons and ice time for myself, I will think of the extra lesson time dd would be missing out on. Just the cost above would pay for 2 jump lessons a month, with a high level jump coach. So, for right now I may just have to skate LTS. I could try some lessons with the kids, but not sure how that will work either. I would likely be able to be in Basic 5 or 6 based on the skills. The only thing from 4 I am not sure about is the 3 turn. I can do a 3 turn but I am not sure I can do them on a outside edge. I will have to pay attention the next time I skate. I will talk to the skating director the next time I am at the rink. I do need to add that the instructor was trying to help me. She gave me things to do and would come and check on me but I imagine with 3 newbies who likely need more attention then I do, it is hard to keep going back and forth. She did try.

Thanks again!

[AgnesNitt]

I could try some lessons with the kids, but not sure how that will work either. I would likely be able to be in Basic 5 or 6 based on the skills. The only thing from 4 I am not sure about is the 3 turn. I can do a 3 turn but I am not sure I can do them on a outside edge. I will have to pay attention the next time I skate. I will talk to the skating director the next time I am at the rink. I do need to add that the instructor was trying to help me. She gave me things to do and would come and check on me but I imagine with 3 newbies who likely need more attention then I do, it is hard to keep going back and forth. She did try.

It will be interesting to see how this works out, keep us posted.  Don't forget the practice thread.

[Skittl1321]

Interesting that you say this because a lot of people feel the same way about the adult MIF test structure.  

Yeah- the jump from Bronze to Silver was too big for me- I doubt I will ever pass it.  I also think there is a benefit to having power pulls and cross rolls on seperate tests, because I only "got" the cross rolls once I had a strong back power pull.

(oddly enough the "easy" move on Silver- the spirals, I can no longer due because of injury.  I could have passed that move after I finished Basic 3 since I had the spirals years ago.  Now I'm forever bronze.)

[Clarice]

Yeah- the jump from Bronze to Silver was too big for me- I doubt I will ever pass it.  I also think there is a benefit to having power pulls and cross rolls on seperate tests, because I only "got" the cross rolls once I had a strong back power pull.

(oddly enough the "easy" move on Silver- the spirals, I can no longer due because of injury.  I could have passed that move after I finished Basic 3 since I had the spirals years ago.  Now I'm forever bronze.)

Not necessarily.  You pass the test "as a whole", so even if you can't pass one move, you can make up the points on the others and still pass the test.

Count me in as another who is not fond of the adult LTS levels, though.  I also always teach according to the Basic 1-8, and just add in the extra skills from the adult levels.

[jjane45]

I did not realize the Adult LTS in question actually involves different curriculum... My rinks follow ISI and there is no curriculum difference between adult class and regular kids class. Well maybe that for adults, coaches are willing to teach the skater higher level stuff if the skater is stuck in a level only for a specific element.

I started off mostly with adults class because the schedule fits and it's much much lighter compared to kids classes: 3 students with the whole ice vs 7 students jumping on a single hockey circle (I will never survive that). Doing make-ups with freestyle kids on the same ice, I was somewhat intimidated by their speed in warm up. Other than that there was really no difference.

IMHO it all comes down to the personality and teaching style of the instructor. If you are lucky to find someone who actually breaks down the skill and is capable of explaining, follow that person whether it's adult or kids class.

A side note, my skating improves automatically by warming-up with better skaters in group lessons. Except 5-circle back 3s are very humiliating, but I hope that improves soon...

[Minerva]

Another one who hates the Adult MITF track...it skips too many things and the jump between levels is crazy.

On topic...I did LTS with the kids.  I was at an ISI rink but enjoyed struggling with my 7 year old buddies.  I would have been going crazy if I was grouped with people who though at my age were not at my skill level.

[drskater]

Thought I'd throw this out: Have you considered finding a few other adults around your level and working with a coach in a semi-private lesson? My coach teaches a mini-group/semi-private for adults in this format and the best thing about it is that there is no pre-formulated set of skills. The skaters work on things they're interested in and split the teaching and ice time costs.

[blue111moon]

I say give the coach a break.  It's only been two weeks.  Teaching adult groups is tough.  I've taught a lot of adult classes and generally the groups skills always vary widely.  In the first couple weeks the rank beginners do take a lot of time because they have no clue about anything and they need more supervision to be sure they don't hurt themselves.  It takes a couple weeks for the instructor to get used to the feel of group and learn what she needs to know about how to teach them.

I know I'm guilty of letting the more advanced adults work by themselves for a time - just because they CAN, whereas the wall-glingers often need more instruction - and support - especially the first couple weeks when they're terrified.  Having someone a higher level standing around acting bored isn't helpful.  It is after a group lesson progra (and an incredibly cheap one at that!);  you can't expect more than a few minutes of personal attention anyway. 

To help yourself, you could check the skills lists ahead of time and ask the instructor to work on one or two specific things with you then use the rest of the time to work on those.  But reviewing basic skills is never a bad thing, even if it isn't the most exciting or challenging.  It is what you make of it.

[w.w.west]

I say give the coach a break.  It's only been two weeks.  Teaching adult groups is tough.  I've taught a lot of adult classes and generally the groups skills always vary widely.  In the first couple weeks the rank beginners do take a lot of time because they have no clue about anything and they need more supervision to be sure they don't hurt themselves.  It takes a couple weeks for the instructor to get used to the feel of group and learn what she needs to know about how to teach them.

I know I'm guilty of letting the more advanced adults work by themselves for a time - just because they CAN, whereas the wall-glingers often need more instruction - and support - especially the first couple weeks when they're terrified.  Having someone a higher level standing around acting bored isn't helpful.  It is after a group lesson progra (and an incredibly cheap one at that!);  you can't expect more than a few minutes of personal attention anyway. 

To help yourself, you could check the skills lists ahead of time and ask the instructor to work on one or two specific things with you then use the rest of the time to work on those.  But reviewing basic skills is never a bad thing, even if it isn't the most exciting or challenging.  It is what you make of it.

Well said! I have a class with three adults on Monday nights. First of all....I love, love, love teaching adults! However, having three diff. levels is not the easiest even if it is a very small group. There are two recreational adults...one has skated somewhat before and the other, only on roller blades. I start them both at Adult 1 and go through the skills. I could immediately tell that the person who skated a little before was stronger. She still needed to work on some things but picked up pretty fast. The other one needed more attention and hands on. Then I have a freeskater. I split my time going back and forth between the two newer skaters and the freeskater giving them each things to work on until I come back to them. Last week I had the two new skaters do similar skills but one a little more advanced. Example...I had them do 1 foot glides...the less experienced one doing forward and the more experienced doing backwards.

I also don't go solely by what's on paper for adults. I skip around between the levels if I see they are ready for it.

I would give the coach until the third week. It they still have you working on the same things, then bring it up.  Give them time to get the feel of their class. And it is a group lesson, so there is not a lot of one on one attention.

[isakswings]

Thought I'd throw this out: Have you considered finding a few other adults around your level and working with a coach in a semi-private lesson? My coach teaches a mini-group/semi-private for adults in this format and the best thing about it is that there is no pre-formulated set of skills. The skaters work on things they're interested in and split the teaching and ice time costs.

I have, but I don't know of any other adults with whom I could do that with. It is a GREAT idea tho! I will have to keep my eyes peeled and see if I can find anyone who might like to do that.

[isakswings]

I say give the coach a break.  It's only been two weeks.  Teaching adult groups is tough.  I've taught a lot of adult classes and generally the groups skills always vary widely.  In the first couple weeks the rank beginners do take a lot of time because they have no clue about anything and they need more supervision to be sure they don't hurt themselves.  It takes a couple weeks for the instructor to get used to the feel of group and learn what she needs to know about how to teach them.

I know I'm guilty of letting the more advanced adults work by themselves for a time - just because they CAN, whereas the wall-glingers often need more instruction - and support - especially the first couple weeks when they're terrified.  Having someone a higher level standing around acting bored isn't helpful.  It is after a group lesson progra (and an incredibly cheap one at that!);  you can't expect more than a few minutes of personal attention anyway. 

To help yourself, you could check the skills lists ahead of time and ask the instructor to work on one or two specific things with you then use the rest of the time to work on those.  But reviewing basic skills is never a bad thing, even if it isn't the most exciting or challenging.  It is what you make of it.

I am certainly not saying she is doing a bad job. I really don't think that. If I came accross that way, that is not what I intended on doing. She was trying... and I recognize that. I was just wondering if this was the best avenue for me to take since I do not feel I am getting a lot out of it. I completely understand the newbies needing more time then I might but I would definately like a bit more of a challenge. She has me working on different things and while I don't mind working on basic skills, it gets boring after a bit and since I paid to learn new stuff too, I think it is only fair to expect to gain new skills in addition to reviewing old skills. Yes it is what you make of it, but I would like to come out of the class having learned something new also. Like I said, I respect that the instructor has to work with different levels. I went in expecting that. She is trying and I appreciate the effort she is making.