Problems with Klingbeil order

[Hanca]

Problems with Klingbeil order

I have had such a bad luck with Klingbeil firm, that I feel I need to share it, so that no one else gets caught in similar situation. 

In May 2012 I ordered custom made dance boots.

In June 2012 I noticed that Lorraine overcharged me – she counted $1384, although according to Janice's quote the price should be $1294. I queried it and they reimbursed me the difference.

In August 2012 I received freeskating boots. When I queried it, that I ordered dance boots, at first they tried to persuade me that those are dance boots. The boots were exactly same height, shape and stiffness and my previous two pairs I have bought from Klingbeil in the past and those were freeskating boots, so unless Klingbeil's dance boots are identical to freeskating boots, those were not dance boots. On the invoice they actually wrote freeskating boots, whereas in all email communications from me I am asking them to make dance boots. I returned the boots. Eventually Janice admitted that there was error on their part and promised to make me another pair – dance boots this time. I had to pay for postage for returning the boots, which cost me £97.30.

At the end of October 2012 I received second pair off boots.  The 'second attempt' boots I received are still not according to my specifications. I ordered and $50 for dance backstay, which neither the first attempt boots nor the second attempt boots had. Considering that I made it clear in several emails that I need it and that the reason for ordering the boots is that my coach is complaining that I don't point my toes, I really don't know why Klingbeil found it so difficult to make it. If they can't do it, they shouldn't be offering it and charging for it. (In fact, if I had known that I will get boots in which I won't be able to point my toes, I would have never ordered the boots!)

In addition, Klingbeil forgot to mark the parcel as 'return', so I had to pay custom duty/import tax again, which I have already paid on the 'first attempt' boots. (the custom duty/import tax is charged according to information that the sender- Klingbeil - provides). I shouldn't have to pay custom duty twice, considering that I ordered and have only one pair of boots. The second custom duty/import tax was £97.17. When I asked Klingbeil for reimbursement of the second custom duty payment, Janice offered me 25% discount from me next boots that I will order with them. Now seriously, with this bad experience, would anyone order any next pair of boots with them?)  I politely declined and asked for reimbursement. Janice and Richie Perna (the director) are 'looking into it'. Well, they have been 'looking into it' since 21st November and I haven't heard from them yet! (I did send them the receipts in November as requested.)

[Hanca]

So if I summarise it, I have spent $859 for boots that are made not according to my specification ($1294 minus the price of the blades $435) and incurred additionally £194.47 in extra expenses (postage for returning boots that were freeskating boots while I ordered dance boots, and second time paying custom duty/import tax because Klingbeil forgot to mark the second parcel as return).

I have placed the order in May 2012. We are in January 2013. At the moment I have a pair of boots that are completely useless for me. Pointing my toes was the reason for ordering dance boots, otherwise I would continue skating in my freeskating boots.

Klingbeil made a lot of promises (such as giving me the account number so that I can return the boots number two to them without having to pay another postage) and fixing the boots number 2 for me, but unfortunately none of their promises actually materialised.

It is a lot of money for me, and I wasted 7.5 months waiting for my boots, which turned out to be complete disappointment.


Sorry for such a long post. I am so angry, upset and disappointed. I have bought two pairs of (freeskating) boots from them in the past and never had any problems with them, but their current dealing with me has been appalling!

[Skittl1321]

 This is the second horror story I've seen here on skatingforums- what about all the people no on this forum? 

I don't think I would order from this company, even after decades of raves.  It really sounds like Klingbeil is not the company it used to be.

[irenar5]

How incredibly frustrating!  I doubt I will be ordering from them as well- good customer service is very important to me.  7.5 months is COMPLETELY unreasonable- if I were Klingbeil I would give you the boots at a significant discount, especially after all the return shipping costs you had to incur. 
So sorry to hear about your awful experience...

[AgnesNitt]

Do you have size 7C Klingbeil? I have a pair of tan freestyle boots from Klingbeil that I can't wear. And that's after they rebuilt the left boot after it put so much pressure on my left big toe nail that it split.

Edit: That should be Harclicks. I was having a senior moment there.

[icedancer]

So weren't you asking on another thread about what blades to put on your dance boots? (or was that not you?) - but you already have the supposed dance boots? What blades did you get put on them?

Sorry you are having so much trouble getting the right skates.

I for one think the dance boots are over-rated but you know I have mentioned this before but my SPTeri dance boots were the same height in the back as my previous Teri's... dance boots...meh.

[Sk8tmum]

Have heard quite a few stories of late about Klings ... it sure doesn't sound like the company that we dealt with for years. The Klingbeil famly were efficient, courteous, incredibly helpful ... but, going back to that "panic" of orders that went in in the January timeframe when they said they were going out of business onwards, I've heard about delays, mistakes, non-replies ... etc.  I feel badly for the Klingbeil family; they were so proud of the product and the quality behind it, that they must be very unhappy at the stories that are floating about.  We got a whole tour of the old store ... made to feel welcome and valued - and they went over and above what we asked for without a single extra charge. They even tried to find a way to cut the shipping cost for us so we wouldn't have to pay shipping ...

[Hanca]

So weren't you asking on another thread about what blades to put on your dance boots? (or was that not you?) - but you already have the supposed dance boots? What blades did you get put on them?

Sorry you are having so much trouble getting the right skates.

I for one think the dance boots are over-rated but you know I have mentioned this before but my SPTeri dance boots were the same height in the back as my previous Teri's... dance boots...meh.

It was me.  At the moment I gave up on my useless Klingbeil dance boots and planning to get Jackson dance boots, if they fit me.  I really don't want to hear any more complaining that I am not pointing my toes. I have bought MK dance blades, but if the Jackson's dance boots have different length, I may have to sell them and get the right size... unless my current freeskating blades fit on it. (I can't measure it yet, because I don't have the dance boots yet. ) I am not 100% sure that I want  the dance blades, but I know that I need dance boots.

[Hanca]

Do you have size 7C Klingbeil? I have a pair of tan freestyle boots from Klingbeil that I can't wear. And that's after they rebuilt the left boot after it put so much pressure on my left big toe nail that it split.

Thank you very much for your kind offer. I am size 8 though and I need dance boots, not freeskating boots.   

[AgnesNitt]

Thank you very much for your kind offer. I am size 8 though and I need dance boots, not freeskating boots.   

Sorry, I meant Harlicks. I don't know what I was thinking.
Just should say that problems with custom boots orders aren't unknown with other dealers.

[Hanca]

Sorry, I meant Harlicks. I don't know what I was thinking.
Just should say that problems with custom boots orders aren't unknown with other dealers.

I am sure other dealers have also some boots problems with custom made boots, but I am sure at least they understand that if one wants dance boots, it actually means dance boots.  I think Harlicks are my next choice when I get money somewhere and when I need another pair of  boots.  (In the meantime I am going for Jacksons- if they fit.)

[bambucci]

I'm sorry your experience was so horrific.  I have a client that is going through a similar issue with Harlick customs now.  I guess it happens to every company at some point, unfortunate as it is.

As a first-time Klingbeil customer, I have to say my experience was rather exceptional and I am very pleased with my boots.  Before this pair, I owned Harlicks.  I loved them, but I couldn't afford another pair - Klingbeil is much more affordable. 

Best of luck!

[Sk8tmum]

Before this pair, I owned Harlicks.  I loved them, but I couldn't afford another pair - Klingbeil is much more affordable. 

Best of luck!

I priced out the Harlicks customs vs the Klingbeil customs, and we were cheaper with the Harlicks based on the options! 

[bambucci]

I priced out the Harlicks customs vs the Klingbeil customs, and we were cheaper with the Harlicks based on the options!

Interesting!  I paid roughly $700 for the Klingbeils, the equivalent of what I wanted with Harlicks put me closer to $1k. 

[sarahspins]

It seems both companies have moved over the ala carte ordering rather than the all inclusive "one price" model they had before.  Now I think it just depends on what you want as for which would end up costing less.

[Sk8Dreams]

When I was at Klingbeil getting fitted for my first pair, a woman came in complaining bitterly about her new boots.  Don refunded every penny without a second thought.  After she left, he said to me and others present, that that customer had been in the same boots for 10 years and was not going to be happy with any new boot, and it was better to just let her go.  It seems like the new ownership does not have the same philosophy.

[Hanca]

When I was at Klingbeil getting fitted for my first pair, a woman came in complaining bitterly about her new boots.  Don refunded every penny without a second thought.  After she left, he said to me and others present, that that customer had been in the same boots for 10 years and was not going to be happy with any new boot, and it was better to just let her go.  It seems like the new ownership does not have the same philosophy.

Well, with me it is not case of being not happy with whatever they make. All I need is boots that are enabling me to do ice dance and point my toes. Maybe if I turned up, they would reimburse me too, I don't know. The trouble is that it is not quite practical fro me, considering how far I live. It would be cheaper for me to throw the boots away and get different ones custom made from Harlick!

[blue111moon]

Aren't Harlick's made in California?  That's even further away for you, and there's no guarantee you won't run into similar issues when dealing with long distance fittings.  Why not deal with one of the European boot manufacturers instead where you can do it in person or at least be able to contact them more easily?

[Hanca]

Aren't Harlick's made in California?  That's even further away for you, and there's no guarantee you won't run into similar issues when dealing with long distance fittings.  Why not deal with one of the European boot manufacturers instead where you can do it in person or at least be able to contact them more easily?

Maybe because I don't expect any problems with Harlick's? (the same way as I didn't expect any problems with Klingbeil's).  Maybe it is naive, but I usually tend to believe the manufacturer, until there is a reason not to (as is now with Klingbeil company.)  With any European manufacturer the problems could be potentially the same...when one orders internationally, it doesn't make much difference whether it is in Europe or outside the Europe. You have to rely on the manufacturer that they will make whatever you ordered, or that they are honest enough to admit a mistake when if made one. Klingbeil company did admit the mistake, made a lot of promises over the phone, but did not do anything about correcting the mistake. The same way as I can't really travel to the USA to sort it out, I wouldn't travel to Italy if I had a problems with Edea, because the flight tickets would be more expensive than another pair of boots. SO it doesn't really matter if I order in Europe or in the USA. It would be different if I could order the boots in this country. Then I would be protected by our law.

[Sk8tmum]

I can't speak directly of Harlick, as we did not go to them direct.  But, we did go through a very large, very reputable fitter who dealt with them and did all of the quality assurance and followup.  As the store is very large and very - well powerful? - perhaps that helps in terms of getting what you want when you want it?

We got for $700 beautifully made custom boots that fit perfectly, have all of the heel huggers, padding, roll tops etc that we wanted; the finishes etc that we wanted. Everything was included except for a few things.  The fitter called Harlick directly and discussed the skater with them, in terms of what would work/what wouldn't work, and they refused to give us a couple of funky options that we were considering as they strongly recommended against them for a skater of the level and weight.  Which cost them some dollars, by the way!

Klingbeil was phenomenal, wonderful, incredible and great value for the dollar when they were in a neat little store in Queens.  But, then again, they weren't making money on that business model.  If you look back at the "Klingbeil's Closing" postings you'll see debate (including from me) about how changes might affect the company.

[Nate]

Lol.  My fitter put my order in for 7A and Klingbeil sent a 7C which put me in the hospital and off the ice for 3 weeks.

Yes, they're always good to refund things and whatnot, but when you make those sorts of mistakes it just not worth the risk in the future.  Ended up having to pay an extra $520 + Tax for a second pair of boots.  I partially blame the fitter as he should have checked when they came in, but he did show me the order and it was for 7A.
I think my next pair will be Edea boots.  I have heard nothing but great things about them.  They seem to be all the rage, and I like the materials they use in their boots.  I have a pair of Chorus in great condition that a friend gave me (son outgrew them fast, growth spurt).  I just need to find a blade that fits them.

[sarahspins]

Everything was included except for a few things.

Prior to about a year ago this held true for both Harlick and Klingbeil.. Klings were $649 and included almost everything you'd want, and Harlick charged $685 and all you paid extra for were some of the orthpedic options, but now both companies have changed their policies every option seems like it's nickeled and dimed to death because there is now a charge for *every* option.. for someone who is picker about what they want (say you want to add flex notches or scallops, hooks on the tongue, lambswool lining instead of foam, and a split width - all of which are typical modifications) it can easily add $200-300 to a pair of custom boots... it gets to a point where it's a little extreme, and it puts people like me off from even considering custom boots again because the pricing is just too much.  It used to be that customs were really only "a little more" than top end boots (and in fact Klingbeil used to be cheaper than Harlick and SP Teri's top level boots by a fair amount, and the difference between stock and custom for the other companies was only about $50-75) so if you needed a modified stock boot it make more sense to go custom because you didn't end up spending much more, but now they can approach twice as much once you get all the options you want... and to be honest I am quite thankful that I fit my modified stock Jacksons so well, because they're significantly cheaper than anything else I could get (and be happy skating with).

[Nate]

I think that is part of the reason why Edea skates are catching on to well even at the lower levels.  They are more durable and cheaper than top end customs by a rather wide margin.

[Sk8tmum]

Prior to about a year ago this held true for both Harlick and Klingbeil.. Klings were $649 and included almost everything you'd want, and Harlick charged $685 and all you paid extra for were some of the orthpedic options, but now both companies have changed their policies every option seems like it's nickeled and dimed to death because there is now a charge for *every* option..

It depends on what you need for options.  The tongue hooks are free, by the way; and all the deluxe padding you could ever want, and various other things.  The options that cost are ones that you wouldn't likely find in stock boots, such as the lambswool tongues, orthopaedic insoles, special linings or leathers. Yes, you pay for flex notches and growth insoles; but, the latter are well worth the money if they save a parent a boot purchase (or two, as we managed with Klingbeils with them).  So, if you want the unusual, then, you pay for it, but, if you want the equivalent of a stock boot that you can tweak that will fit you precisely, it's still viable.

Here's the link to the current Harlick order form:

http://www.harlick.com/pdf/price_custom.pdf

However, in terms of the need for custom:  custom boots also accomodate odd foot shapes, and that was the impetus for us.  A modified stock boot would never have worked for our skater. Wish we could ... but, weird feet = problems if you don't accomodate them.  My other two skaters are perfect stock boots, and we buy off the rack and go.

Interestingly, Harlick will look at your "feet" and tell you if you need a stock or custom boot, and if they can accomodate you in stock, they will.  And, we only go the "all inclusive" price for Kling when we went there: thru a dealer, we got charged for flex, roll top, extra padding, sole finish ... all of which we got for free with Harlick, so, we were happy people with the pricing from Harlick, saved us $$$$.

[sarahspins]

But still, that pricing model is not in place now.. that was my point.

And you can in fact order any option you want in a stock boot, whether it's from Harlick, or SP teri, or Jackson, or even Riedell - I know because I've done it (or inquired about it), and not just with Jackson.  Most boot makers are more than happy to accomodate most extra options for stock boots - but it used to be that after adding more than a couple it just made sense to go with customs because many of those options were included for free... all I was saying is that isn't necessarily the case any more because the pricing isn't the same.