What can solo dancers do that freestyle skaters can't?

[sampaguita]

Freestyle skaters can do really good twizzles, counters, rockers, loops, choctaws, progressive-style crossovers (which look like progressives to me) -- I think they have the complete repertoire of turns and edges. What makes their skills different from that of solo dancers? Are there some moves that are taught to those taking solo dance that are not taught to freestyle skaters?

[Clarice]

I compete in both solo and partnered dance, but at a low level, so I only do pattern dances, not free dances.  I've also competed in freestyle.  I don't think that as dancers we do anything that freestyle skaters don't also do, but I think we do it in a more exacting fashion.  For instance, as a freestyler I thought I had pretty good three turns and mohawks, but as a dancer I'm finding I still have a long way to go.  In fact, I started dance in the first place in order to clean up my technique and improve my general skating skills.  Dancers also have to do everything in time to the music, which requires a lot of control.  Doing a three turn is one thing, doing it exactly on count 3 is quite another!

[jjane45]

Everything Clarice said.

IMHO at lower levels the main difference is style. Take FI mohawk for example, ice dance demands super neat precise feet while freestyle will be satisfied with general smoothness.

[taka]

I agree. The difference is more in how moves are expected to be done between the disciplines.

Backwards (progressive) runs are something I didn't come across at all doing free that I've had to learn since starting to do dance. In free you generally use back crossovers to generate speed backwards instead. Closed outside mohawks are another one too - not much call for them in free/singles unless for choreographic reasons.

Dance needs neat feet so you don't kick / trip up your partner while in various holds, hence part of the need for 3 turns with feet touching and very precise movements and footwork etc. Even if you are doing dance solo the same neatness and precision is expected though you don't need to worry about matching legs etc. In dance things like rhythm, timing, precision and deep edges are highly prized. You need to be skating in time to the music, expressing whatever the character of the music is too.

Of course these things are good to see in free/singles skaters too but (at low levels anyway) are not always as high a priority as managing the jumps correctly, in part due to the scoring system. They can also need different things from steps / turns etc than a dancer too. A lot of footwork is used as entrances to jumps so needs both speed and to end with the free leg (and body!) in the correct position to jump eg 3 turns with the free foot behind after the turn in order to pick in for a jump.

I'm hoping to start learning a free dance in the new year! Instead of a lift I need to do a combination pose since I'm doing it solo. In the UK anyway, this means 2 moves out of attitude/ spiral/ crouching pose/ ina bauer/ drag (lunge)/ teapot (shoot the duck)/ spreadeagle with each of the 2 parts held for a minimum of 3 secs, with the max of one linking step between them. I need to kidnap jjane45's lovely ina bauer/spreadeagles as the things I can do look really ugly!

[sarahspins]

What makes their skills different from that of solo dancers?

I think the main difference has to do with precision and execution - while most high level freestyle skaters can "do" any of the moves that are more traditionally associated with dance, they don't tend to do them quite as well, or in the case of twizzles, don't tend to do as many in a row, as quickly, skating at the same speed, etc.

[alejeather]

I need to kidnap jjane45's lovely ina bauer/spreadeagles as the things I can do look really ugly!

Don't we all!

[sampaguita]

Thanks for all the responses. That clears some things up. If you are a low-level dancer, though, are your skills expected to be the same as that of a high-level freestyle skater (say, 3-turns or mohawks), or is there still a big difference?

[hopskipjump]

A low level ice dancer would not have the same skills as a high level freestyle skater.  There would be a big difference because to be high level you still need speed and quickness and a low level ice dancer doesn't have it yet.  I have an adult friend who is an ice dancer (was a bronze adult skater, moved to dance when she wasn't able to jump well) .  Her skating skills don't compare to a competitive juvenile skater who has completed mitf.  Ice dance is difficult and freeskating is difficult, but I think comparing them is like comparing racket ball and tennis.  They are similar but different sports.  There is no reason to compare them, they both require hard work and dedication.

[jjane45]

Taka, just one step between 2 moves is tough, one needs to have really good speed coming out of the first one.

I don't think people expect really neat feet from freestyle skaters at any level, as long as it's not badly wide stepped.

[taka]

If you are a low-level dancer, though, are your skills expected to be the same as that of a high-level freestyle skater (say, 3-turns or mohawks), or is there still a big difference?

Whether a freestyle skater or a dancer a lower level skater simply isn't going to have the general skating skills, speed, ice coverage, edge control or power that a high level one of either discipline will have.

A dancer may be better at some things (eg twizzles) earlier because they are needed sooner in the test structure and for competitions. In dance twizzles can be scored as different levels depending on numbers of rotations / positions etc much like spins, whereas in free they are more transitional elements (to add to the overall choreography) unless done as part of a step sequence.

[taka]

Taka, just one step between 2 moves is tough, one needs to have really good speed coming out of the first one.

Yep... holding it for 3 seconds each is tough! It feels a surprisingly long time! The things I can do for 3 secs aren't pretty either...

[iomoon]

Would a good comparison be the difference between Artistic, Rhythmic and Acrobatic Gymnastics?

[sampaguita]

Would a good comparison be the difference between Artistic, Rhythmic and Acrobatic Gymnastics?

Am not familiar with the differences between those, either! 

[SynchKat]

I think the posters have given good comparisons.  I know as a former ice dancer we always felt we did the "real"  skating.  I think of it now as ice dancers have a more pleasant skating style.  Toes are pointed, feet are neat, arms and heads are precise, to me it is just a more polished style. 

And like others said a low level dancer would not have similar skills to the of a high level free skater.  It takes an advanced skater to make this sport look effortless and beautiful.

[sampaguita]

Thanks to all who responded! I think the question has been well-answered.

[Sk8tmum]

We recently hired a high-level dance coach to work with our high-end competitive kid on all of the dance edges, turns, etc as part of improving PCS scores and improving quality in step sequences.  Twizzles, mohawks, rockers, all of the turns are hugely improved, as is edge quality and PCS scores have increased as well. As well, the posture, carriage, and musicality/rhythm that a good dance coach can impart is invaluable.  Probably the best add to our coaching team that we could have done.

Although all of the turns had been 'there' before, and well executed, they were were simply not as good as they are now.