Blade issues

[SkateTip2]

I recently got back on the ice as an adult after 15 years of not skating.  Before starting, I got set up with a boot and Matrix Protege blades.  The boot is still extremely stiff and limiting, as expected, but the problem seems to be the blades. They make a horrible scraping noise the entire time, even while only forward stroking.  Furthermore, I find it nearly impossible to do a hockey stop, much less attempt a T-stop.  Spinning and back crossovers usually end up with me leaning on the toe pick.  The blades pretty much control my skating.

My first couple times on the ice were really quite sad, and I truly believed everything had been forgotten.  However, just for fun, I tried on someone's rental skates for the last 10 minutes.  Although they were so dull it was scary, I was able to do so much more!  Stopping and spinning came back instantly, but I couldn't try too much because the blades would slip out.

So my question is this: What do you suppose the problem is?  When they were purchased, the shop owner said she sharpened them for someone who changed their mind about buying them.  I'm thinking she could have been mistaken and left it with a factory grind...

It seems obvious that the hollow is too deep, so I'm going to go get it sharpened again this week.  The other thing I was thinking is that it could be the 8" rocker on the Protege as well.  Is the "sweet spot" really that much different on an 8" than a 7"?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

[hopskipjump]

Are they correctly aligned?

[SkateTip2]

I am going to adjust one a tiny bit, but otherwise yes, they are aligned properly.  They just make a horrible grinding sound.

[AgnesNitt]

I am going to adjust one a tiny bit, but otherwise yes, they are aligned properly.  They just make a horrible grinding sound.

I had this happen after going to a new skate tech for a sharpening. Someone on the board (Synchcat? VAS8TR?) suggested that it might be due to the edges not being aligned on the blade, i.e. one is slightly higher than the other. I was able to reduce it by using a gummi stone, but it's still annoying.

[SkateTip2]

AgnesNitt,
So the problem never completely went away?  It's interesting that it couldn't be fixe at a sharpening, too.


Thanks to you both for the replies!  I considered alignment to be that gliding on each foot individually was straight.  That is the way the store owner told me to test for it.  Apparently, there could be a lot more to fixing this problem.

[AgnesNitt]

AgnesNitt,
So the problem never completely went away?  It's interesting that it couldn't be fixe at a sharpening, too.


Thanks to you both for the replies!  I considered alignment to be that gliding on each foot individually was straight.  That is the way the store owner told me to test for it.  Apparently, there could be a lot more to fixing this problem.

A gummi stone is not a sharpening stone. It's not like I did a new sharpening. I'm off ice with an injury so I haven't bothered getting my blades sharpened by my regular guy.

[Mergen Tatara]

The boot is still extremely stiff and limiting, as expected, but the problem seems to be the blades. They make a horrible scraping noise the entire time, even while only forward stroking.  Furthermore, I find it nearly impossible to do a hockey stop, much less attempt a T-stop.  Spinning and back crossovers usually end up with me leaning on the toe pick.  The blades pretty much control my skating.

Tell me about it.  I'm still struggling to understand my Ultima Mirage blades.  Experienced the same issue as you.  I cannot turn the blades in to stop.  Maybe because they're sharpened and there's too much grip.  Just got rid of the toepick scrapping problem by leaning more backwards and avoiding putting weight upfront.  Must really be friends with Mr Super Big Toepick.  Don't know why Jackson sticks to 8" rocker profile for all its blades.  Makes spinning challenging and limited "sweet spot" location.

PS:  Do you have possible blade alignment problem?  (see my titled post in this section)

[Sk8tmum]

My experience, and others, with some of the Ultima blades are that they are "noisy" on the ice.  This is regardless of sharpening.

Once we swapped to a Wilson blade, the continual feedback re: scraping noises and noisy blades on test sheets stopped; one judge even commented on the improvement in skating quality. Sure, it could be partly the change in rocker  .... but, having ice captained quite a few comps, I have noted that Ultima blades are noisier on the ice; it's really noticeable at ice level. Now, nobody "around here" uses the top level Ultima blades; Gold Seals or Pattern 99 are the norm for skaters at the intermediate to top levels, so perhaps the top level Ultima blades are less noisy - we left at the mid-level Ultima blades ourselves.

I wonder if this is a factor of the material used to make the blades that help them to last so long between sharpening?

[hopskipjump]

dd has the ultima supreme and they aren't noisy.  She is amazed how much easier they are to skate on (she came from the mk professional).  There was a big transition - her spins were gone for a few weeks.  They do "growl" but that isn't noise.

[FigureSpins]

My experience, and others, with some of the Ultima blades are that they are "noisy" on the ice.  This is regardless of sharpening.

Once we swapped to a Wilson blade, the continual feedback re: scraping noises and noisy blades on test sheets stopped; one judge even commented on the improvement in skating quality. Sure, it could be partly the change in rocker  .... but, having ice captained quite a few comps, I have noted that Ultima blades are noisier on the ice; it's really noticeable at ice level. Now, nobody "around here" uses the top level Ultima blades; Gold Seals or Pattern 99 are the norm for skaters at the intermediate to top levels, so perhaps the top level Ultima blades are less noisy - we left at the mid-level Ultima blades ourselves.

I wonder if this is a factor of the material used to make the blades that help them to last so long between sharpening?

I asked an Ultimate vendor at a trade show - the noisiness does come from the materials used.  To make them lightweight, they use less steel.  My Aspire blades sounded like I was ripping every edge when in fact, I was just gliding with little to no effort.  Fwiw, Ultimate blades do stay sharper longer than my Gold Seals, but I definitely prefer the GS blades.  (I can rip edges on those blades when I want to.)

IMO, it gives skaters an artificial advantage in testing if judges consider that sound to demonstrate power and edge control.

[FigureSpins]

Tell me about it.  I'm still struggling to understand my Ultima Mirage blades.  Experienced the same issue as you.  I cannot turn the blades in to stop.  Maybe because they're sharpened and there's too much grip.

IIRC, you went from rentals into stiff, sharp skates.  Give it at least four hours of skating to get used to having edges. If you want to speed it up, scrape the blades across the ice on all four edges to make snow.  That will dull them down a little.  Make sure to sharpen regularly so you don't get caught in the "too sharp" Catch-22 again.  It happens when you go from really-dull to properly sharpened blades.

Since I am the poster child for letting blades get too dull before sharpening, I have found that a T-stop is more reliable on freshly sharpened blades.

Best tip for new skates: don't use the top hook for the first few weeks.  It gives you more knee and ankle bend, keeps the toepick off the ice too.

[Query]

If you are still looking at this thread, a few shots in the dark:

1. Are the blades mounted loosely? I.e. if you push them around, do the blades move relative to the boot? Maybe they are vibrating.

2. Are the blades straight? Place a straightedge against the blade, first on one side, then the other. If not straight, the blades will be concave on one side, convex on the other. About how many mm do the deviate from straight? Ideally shouldn't be more than a small fraction of a mm.

3. Do the blades get noticeably warmer than the ice when you skate fast? That would be a non-specific sign that something was weird.

4. Not everyone removes burrs. They are often straightened vertical. Maybe you have knocked them flat again. Lightly (don't cut yourself!) run your finger along the side of the blade at the edge. If you can feel a protrusion, they are knocked to the side of the blade, away from the hollow. Now lightly run your finger down the hollow. If you feel a protrusion, they are knocked towards the hollow. By the way, if there are any scratches on the side of the blade, they might do this too.

5. To find uneven edges: Lie nickels against on top of the blade, at various parts of the blade, when the skates are upside down. Or lie Popsicle sticks across that top, for more sensitivity; some pro shops have a magnetic equivalent, but that costs money, whereas Popsicles or generic equivalent are at the dollar store. They should lie flat, with no side-to-side slant. If you can balance the Popsicle sticks well enough, they should lie parallel to each other at different points along the blade. (I'm talking about the U.S. nickel coin, which has a raised rim that makes this work, which is the only part that touches the blade. Not sure if it works with any other coins.)

6. If none of the above, get the blades re-sharpened by someone good. Maybe the problem will magically go away.

7. Conceivably, you could be failing to skate clean arcs, and are skidding sideways. A good skater could look at the tracings left on the ice and figure out if that's true. Or maybe your toe pick is dragging. Those might be a problem with your skating technique. But it's much easier to blame the equipment.

BTW, noise is a waste of energy, and may be slowing down your skating. Plus, coaches and judges are often taught to see scraping noise as a sign of poor skating.

Hope that helps.